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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
Yep!
My wife fusses at me for shooting a old deer, buck or doe.
She prefers the young ones, and its not rocket science...
they're tender and they do taste good!
It's hard to beat a fat old buck - killed before the rut. 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,004
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,004 |
Those big guys had the same genetics when big as they did when they were running around as smaller/younger deer.
Shooting the smaller/younger deer might be taking the same exact genetics out of the herd as only shooting the big ones under your scenario.
Shoot a doe - how do you know she wasn't just made pregnant with the next Jordan buck? You don't. There are a bajillion "what ifs" in nature.
So in the end - shoot what you like - if all you want is meat, great, if it just has to be legal antlers, great, if you want to wait for 150+ inches - great.
In the end, the trophy and its definition only belongs to one person - the nut behind the trigger.
Me
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
well scott, what did edward alby say about it? A young man without a blood lust, probably isn't much of a man. An old man with the same blood lust probably doesn't have much in the way of brains?
To each his own, but i have never been a trophy hunter, not important to me, filling the freezer is. And I a long time ago stopped shooting stuff i had not use for, as to the eating department.
I chased one buck for probably four years, had multiple chances to smoke him, and didn't. Mainly because i figured out his modis operandi, and after that it wouldn't have been a chore to kill him, but no purpose in it.
I am off end of the week for deer, the trip itself is enough, the killing of a deer is secondary. I have nothing to prove.
I also was on a trophy elk bull for quite a few years, smart ol fellow. But after i figured out how he managed to stay alive, i left him along.
A couple of years ago, i downed a pretty good cow elk, and was telling my grandson how sad it made me, to take it's life. I remarked that in my book that sadness comes with the territory.
His comment was that sadness will disappear when gramma puts that steak on the table, and he was right about that too.
But I don't take it lightly. I do believe the number of years you have been hunting has a lot to do with it. I go way more for the hunt and way less for the blood. Thinking about it my first deer hunt was in 1964 and I went alone. My family never hunted and fished less than a dozen times so I had to do it on my own. doing the math would make that first hunt fifty years ago. My attitude has matured a lot.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,602
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,602 |
I don't believe our animals in this part of the state have suffered as bad as in curdogs part. Son has some of the best animals on his property we've seen I years.
Founder
Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison?
And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools,
Being native burghers of this desert city,
Should in their own confines with forked heads
Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
tell it to the pa game commission. i've said that for years. i have shot many spikes that were older deer. but the buzzword of the decade is qdma, and that means shoot all the does and leave the spikes to breed whats left. some counties you shoot 3 to a side, others four. but don't count the brow tine. oh and some counties you have two weeks of buck/doe. others are 1 week buck and 1 week mixed. the friggen biologists and "bone hunter" lobbiests have made deer hunting in PA a total mess on a heck of a lot of public grounds.
My diploma is a DD214
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,486
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,486 |
I believe it was Valerius Geist who said that for every trophy taken, one should take 10 immature non breeding animals in order to keep the herds healthy.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,684
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,684 |
Scott the winter of 95-96 or 96-97 can't remember was devastating to the mule deer pop in south central BC, over the next 5 years I seldom took a buck and I could have shot many but I wanted to build the herds back up. It worked and the gene pool was rebuilt.
norm
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle----Robert Alden .
If it wern't entertaining, I wouldn't keep coming back.------the BigSky
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
tell it to the pa game commission. i've said that for years. i have shot many spikes that were older deer. but the buzzword of the decade is qdma, and that means shoot all the does and leave the spikes to breed whats left. some counties you shoot 3 to a side, others four. but don't count the brow tine. oh and some counties you have two weeks of buck/doe. others are 1 week buck and 1 week mixed. the friggen biologists and "bone hunter" lobbiests have made deer hunting in PA a total mess on a heck of a lot of public grounds. I had a feeling someone from PA would show up bellyaching early on in this thread. Unfortunately, I was right.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
I do what makes me happy on any given day. Always have, always will.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
I believe it was Valerius Geist who said that for every trophy taken, one should take 10 immature non breeding animals in order to keep the herds healthy. Like said before, how do you know that 2 year old dink you just shot doesn't have the genetics of a 200" buck? There's a lot of emotion and not a lot of science on this thread. If you're feeling emotional about it, fine, just don't let your feelings replace nature.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
I believe it was Valerius Geist who said that for every trophy taken, one should take 10 immature non breeding animals in order to keep the herds healthy. Like said before, how do you know that 2 year old dink you just shot doesn't have the genetics of a 200" buck? There's a lot of emotion and not a lot of science on this thread. If you're feeling emotional about it, fine, just don't let your feelings replace nature. Please, regale us with the science.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
You tell me how passing on a long tooth while killing his offspring
helps the herd..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,609
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,609 |
I believe it was Valerius Geist who said that for every trophy taken, one should take 10 immature non breeding animals in order to keep the herds healthy. Like said before, how do you know that 2 year old dink you just shot doesn't have the genetics of a 200" buck? There's a lot of emotion and not a lot of science on this thread. If you're feeling emotional about it, fine, just don't let your feelings replace nature. I don't see much emotion, but I sure see some stupidity. Which is the main reason seasons get cut shorter, minimum rack requirements are added, and deer herd quality goes down. First, you have to be enough of an outdoorsman to recognize what deer need to be taken, what's mature, what's not. What barren means and looks like. And savvy enough to know if you take the lions share of the top genetics out of the heard, then the result will not be favorable. Then you may need to be enough of a seasoned hunter to pass on a nice, young buck on the chance you may see him next year, or someone else will. Or accept the fact that if you take out the big bucks early in season before the rut, they most certainly won't be breeding any does to improve the herd. If you want to shoot a big buck, then please do so. If you want to hunt meat and shoot does or dinks, then do that too. Just use your head in either case. For cryin' out loud, it ain't rocket science.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
You tell me how passing on a long tooth while killing his offspring
helps the herd.. Sorry, that isn't the science you're saying is missing. Do you have the science you say is missing? If so, please enlighten us.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Chit that hurts herds and horns are development, and crappy forest/land management, first and foremost. Second is buck/doe ratios.
I won't deny that dudes shooting the chit out of anything with horns on an overcrowded lease will keep critters from becoming wall hangers, but that's not my concern.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,943
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,943 |
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Again, I couldn't care less what someone wants to shoot and doesn't want to shoot, they are all trophies in one regard or another.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
But my thoughts wander to looking at the long term effects of hunting for giant heads. When we pass up spikes, forks, and even modest four points to take a monster head are we not taking the best of the genetic pool and leaving the worst?
I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I will disagree a bit with the logic. The very biggest muley bucks we kill are 6.5-7.5 yrs old. By letting them get to this age, they have already spread their genes around the place for a good 5 years or so. Best of both worlds to me. I believe the worst mistake we can make, if you're into managing your land, or managing for trophies, is to shoot those impressive looking 2.5-3.5yr old bucks. I will leave those alone for another 2-3 years at least.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,692
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,692 |
Again, I couldn't care less what someone wants to shoot and doesn't want to shoot, they are all trophies in one regard or another.
Complete agreement here. I figure if the good Lord wants me to shoot a Booner, he'll send it through before I see something else with brown hair. I like to eat venison. Like Shrapnel mentioned earlier, I have shot a few decent trophies, but they happened along when I was hunting. I do my best not to shoot a button buck, but other than that, the game is on.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them."
-Master Chief Hershel Davis
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