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why are so many guys so worried about thier sellected caliber choice?
a great deal of time and effort and MONEY seems to be spend by guys trying to find the ULTIMATE ELK rifle and very little on aquiring the SKILLS like tracking,correctly reading topo maps,your game ANATOMY,glassing,shooting accurately from field possitions, calling, and locating ELK.
Im quite certain I,(and most guys) can kill ELK with damn near any caliber from a 270 win-378 weatherby,given the correct ammo(having done it in the past)as long as the range/penetration limitations are factored in .
now Im not about to say your caliber choice is meaningless, because some choices have advantages, but I seriously doubt your caliber choice is the one major factor in your success on any ELK hunt,and having a rifle that shoots a few inches flatter in trajectory at 500 yards is all but meaningless on most hunts, its far more important you can hit accurately with your equipment at 200-300 yards than at longer ranges simply because statistically , far more ELK get shot under 300 yards than over 300 yards
grab that 30/06-375 H&H you currently own,and spend more time at the range PRACTICING FROM FIELD POSSITIONS,NOT FROM THE BENCH! youll be far ahead , rather than worrying about your choice
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I'm not at all worried about my choice. Every hunting morning I decide where I plan to hunt that day and select a rifle based on conditions I expect to encounter, anything from a long range slammer to an iron sighted snow gun where range might be thirty yards or less. Whatever I select will be loaded with bullets matched to the job
Once I decide I work within the limits of that rifle and my own ability
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Most of the guys I know really aren't that worried, they just hunt with the best of what they've got in their racks. The discussion is so heavy HERE because we've got to do something for the other 11 months between elk seasons. It's more fun than writing, "yeah, I took the ol' '06 out to the range again today and darned if last years load doesn't group the same this year--------floating the barrel musta helped too, because the thing is still zeroed. Well, only 8 more months till elk season............"
Trophy bull elk are large impressive animals. A natural tendency is to assume that much larger cartridges are needed to kill such a high stakes trophy. Maybe in that thinking had more merrit when bullet technology wasn't what it is today. Also, gun nuts are always looking for a reason to buy a new toy. Buying a medium bore magnum, probably isn't needed with today's premium bullets, but there are lots of them sitting on the shelves for sale, and convincing yourself that you really need one for elk helps in the justification process. I'd really like a .375H&H, but don't have animals available to hunt with one, so consequently I haven't moved it to the front of my wish list. A 7-08 Ti or MT makes much more sense for my part of the world.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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Cause it's too damned hot to do anything else... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Ron
TIME FOR TERM LIMITS !!!! Politicians are just like diapers, they need to be changed often and regularly for the same reason...Robin Williams.
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why are so many guys so worried about thier sellected caliber choice?
a great deal of time and effort and MONEY seems to be spend by guys trying to find the ULTIMATE ELK rifle and very little on aquiring the SKILLS like tracking,correctly reading topo maps,your game ANATOMY,glassing,shooting accurately from field possitions, calling, and locating ELK.
Im quite certain I,(and most guys) can kill ELK with damn near any caliber from a 270 win-378 weatherby,given the correct ammo(having done it in the past)as long as the range/penetration limitations are factored in .
now Im not about to say your caliber choice is meaningless, because some choices have advantages, but I seriously doubt your caliber choice is the one major factor in your success on any ELK hunt,and having a rifle that shoots a few inches flatter in trajectory at 500 yards is all but meaningless on most hunts, its far more important you can hit accurately with your equipment at 200-300 yards than at longer ranges simply because statistically , far more ELK get shot under 300 yards than over 300 yards
grab that 30/06-375 H&H you currently own,and spend more time at the range PRACTICING FROM FIELD POSSITIONS,NOT FROM THE BENCH! youll be far ahead , rather than worrying about your choice Couldn't agree more.
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I think it's a reflection of the effectiveness of advertising in todays gun rags. People who frequent these web sites are also buying the gun mags, and all the gun mags have to talk about are new guns.
Ever bought a gun mag issue that in effective said "Not to worry guys, all the old stuff that worked 20, 30 years ago still works today, so no need to buy anything new". There's not much money in selling old news.
I also doubt there's much money writing articles about critical hunting skills to today's predominately urban reader. That would require us to spend more time in the boonies actually improving on those skills. Why do that when we can buy the next whiz bang rifle and scope combo that's guaranteed to "reach out there" and do the job for us?
But the vast majority of big game hunters don't buy the gun rags and they hunt with whatever rifle I suspect was handed down to them by their dads.
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
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I imagine most folks don't get to shoot enough of them to use their own experiences.
For me I worried about it because I grew up on deer. Started elk hunting in my 30's. I've killed lots of deer and only five elk. I supposed I could have read rifle ads but I was much more comfortable asking other hunters.
I went up from a 300 savage to a 308 , to a 30-06 and didn't have much trouble killing the elk. They just didn't show much visible effect until they fell over.
Hunting friends I respected said that a 338 made a much bigger impression. Now that I've put a few bullets in elk with it. I agree.
Then the bearclaws in "06 came out and I'm not sure I need the 338. But I plan on keeping it. It works great.
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It is an undeniable truth that the inadequacy of elk rifles is inversely proportionate to your skill as a field marksman.
I could not agree more with the original post. Elk rifle caliber is likely the least important decision you'll make.
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Some guys want those big boomers to make up for all the inadequacies mentioned inthe 1st post that most don't have.
I would venture to say that most so called bullets failures are actually poor bullet placement. 2nd, Poor bullet selection for what ever cartridge is being used.
Of course the long range hunters don't need all those other skills. They only have to be able to shoot.
There is a big differnce between hunting and killing. I figure 99% of the time is spent finding and 1% of the time is spent hunting.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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People who frequent these web sites are also buying the gun mags,
Not true for all of us. I can't remember the last gun mag I purchased. I refuse to pay for advertising pretending to be legimate writing. Articles that state, "I shot the Elk........" and go on to give the name and telephone number of the guide service, the fellow who built the rifle, the motel he stayed in and the cafe where the writer had breakfast.
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Campfire Kahuna
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The one's that I get a kick out of are those that denigrate the 300 WSM. Most say that it's almost like a 30-06, therefore is useless. Fact is, it's MUCH closer to a 300 WM than a 30-06 and is about equal to a 300 H&H. So, why doesn't anyone say that the 300 WM is too much like a 30-06 and therefore useless?
Dick
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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I've wondered the same thing. From reading this forum, you would think that by far the most important part of an elk hunt is figuring out what gun and load to take.
It seems like when I'm actually hunting, the things I spend most time thinking about are getting over that next ridge, how much water to carry, my boots, wondering were the elk have gone, etc. Worrying about that gun I'm carrying is usually pretty low on the list.
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Because bang go flop is optimal, but bang go 50 to 100 yards will be exceptable, bang go 1 mile in the wrong direction sucks.
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Campfire Tracker
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Who said a 30-06 is useless?
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Campfire Tracker
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Saddlesore said it right as far as I'm concerned. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com
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A bunch of years ago, I lived in southern Colo. and seems as most everybody there that I knew used a .270. Some prefered the old .06 and I for several years stuck with my nice light 6.5x55 Swedish mouser. Now days, we're told by many hunters and gun writers that .458 or so should be the minimum and lots of people buy into that. One gun writer a few years ago said in his article that he had gone elk hunting several times but had never had a chance for a shot. Then he hired a guide from Cody, Wy. and plugged a small bull with a .338. Remember, this is his FIRST elk but he quickly decided that no body should hunt with anything smaller than a .338. Go figger......
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I'm in the crowd, "because there's nothing else to do." plus its good to get other opinions every once in a while, the good and bad.
Joseph
Joseph
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I agree that it's too damn hot to do anything else. I shoot my 338 WinMag with a 200gr Barnes and I don't worry.
The unarmed man is not only defenseless, he is also contemptible.
Niccolo Machiavelli
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Who said a 30-06 is useless? I didn't word it quite right. I meant that the 300 WSM is accused of being unneeded because we already have the 30-06 and don't need a duplicate. I agree that the '06 is a top level round. Dick
Last edited by Rock Chuck; 07/17/06.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Complex question.
1) Size is over-considered by most given you can see a ft / lb chart by opening a book vs. seeing someone shoot in the field and hit a 3" patch of hair.
- People tend to weight their advantage by what they can see when the walk out the door, not what they can do with it.
Does size matter, in terms of mass I think it does.
2) A guy may talk about hunting elk 5+ years before he actually goes and does it.
Some of them will buy a big rifle the year before, and not shoot it as well as the 06 he already had if he had just bought it.
- Again, just what you said it's skills, not the tool.
3) Becasue Practical shooting and Experience in the field are hard to obtain, and impossible to measure it's easier to go with anything semi-concrete. Even if in the end they aren't the largest factors at all.
I just started shooting HP, it's an eye opener. Not anything sexy like a new wizbang but it's definitely improving my skills via (more importantly) practice and experience.
Spot
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