Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Actions

I know this probaly has more to do with preference than anything but I have to ask...I have been reading up on building a custom rifle...it seems that what I have seen is that most of the guns are built on only a few action (remington 700, weatherby Mark V, mauser, and the sako) so why is it that I see little about Browning actions? why are the other so popular and not these? does it have to do with stenght of the material? is the Browning not as durable? please give me some insite...and if yall no of a book or something that would teach me a little about this..I would like to know where I could get it...Thanks!

The 700 action lends its self to customizing nicely. There are alot of after market parts for them as well.
<br>They tend to be very accurate when done right. Most of the benchresters that do not use a custom BR action use the 700. The military uses the 700 actrions on the sniper rifles as well.
<br>It is an excellent action. It is strong and produces very accurate rifles. It is also inexpensive when compared to the MKV and Sako actions.
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<br>There are many customs built on Win 70 actions. There are less on the MKV action, probably because it is very expensive and is no better than a win 70 or 700 action.
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<br>I personally have built customs on 700, 70, Ruger 77, Howa 1500, MKV and Sako actions.
<br>I like the 700 best.
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<br>I am even going to be doing one on a (ducks) Savage action soon for a guy. That will be my first on one of those and I am doing it becuase the guy is a buddy of sorts.
<br>The MKV action take a few different tools to true up, as the diameter of the bolt is larger than the others. That means another set of tools to indicate it on the lathe for truing.
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<br>Celt

Ok thanks for the response but what about the browning? whats wrong with it? and what exactly does truing mean? I want to learn more about this..so tell me where I can read about this stuff also

Are you talking about the Browning A-Bolt action ?
<br> They are a screwed together, cheap design. Nothing to write home about. Therefore, why use one when another would be better, by a good bit. At least that's my opinion.
<br> If you wish to learn more about the various actions, I recommend Frank DeHaas's book, "Bolt Action Rifles". It covers everything you'll care to know about every action anyone has ever heard of. E

Truing an action;
<br>This makes everything line up perfectly with one another so you have the catridge going prefectly straight into the chamber and the bullet getting a straight, and repititous start each time.
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<br>This is done by aligning the action threads with the "bolt bore" wich is the center of the hole that the bolt rides in, in the action. The front of the action must be perfectly square to this "line" as well.
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<br>The locking lugs are also lapped so they have 90 to 100% conact on both of them. This ensures that during firing, the bolt does not cock to one side giving the bulet a crooked start.
<br>Finally the bolt face (where the case sits in the bolt) is trued square to the same "bolt bore" line.
<br>This of course makes sure the round is not cocked to one side giving the bullet a crooked start.
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<br>The barrel is threaded and chambered true to the bore of the barrel. When it is all put together, it will all be in line.
<br>Starting the bullet straight is a big accuracy factor. When the bullet starts crooked, it gets mis shapen and will not fly as straight as it is desinged to do, thus hurting accuracy.
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<br>I just trued a 700 action yesterday from a 700 PSS. It was .007" out of true. The bolt face was .010" out of square. This rifle was at best a 1" or 3/4" shooter, per the customer. That is pretty good for the rifle being that far out. After truing and a match grade barrel put on, it will be a sub 1/2" shooter.
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<br>Please excuse my explaination, as I am not the best with writing explainations
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<br>I agree about the Abolt. Not a good platform to start a custom tack driver on.
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<br>Celt
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E,
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<br> You stated that the Browning Abolt action is screwed together. Wondering if you could clarify that some. I'm curious exactly what you mean.
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<br> I've got an A-bolt. The receiver itself, seems to be a single solid piece of tubular steel, with a washer style recoil lug. similar to a Remington or Savage.
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<br>MM

The diagram I have is for a Browning BBR. I think it is the same as the A-bolt, but someone else will have to verify this.
<br> The BBR diagram shows the bolt head as a separate peice that is screwed into the body and pinned. The bolt handle is also a separate piece. In other words, a 3 piece bolt.
<br> DeHaas's comments are that the extractor on the BBR is quite small and puny looking. He was not impressed with the bolt stop either. E

Browning A-Bolt has a 0.937" barrel shank (too small). M70 is 1", Rem is 1-1/16", Mauser is 1.1".
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<br>Stainless A-bolts have the barrel improperly assembled at the factory, when it is removed the threads gaul and usually the receiver threads are destroyed. Not good.
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<br>The trigger is a cheap thing with no adjustments.
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<br>A real recoil lug (Hollands, etc.) will not work.
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<br>And, for DGR work, it is a push feed. Yuck.
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<br>The detachable magazine is too short and does not allow for tuning for optimum feeding of many of the popular cartridges we gun plumbers chamber for.
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<br>Stay with M70's and M700's. Lots of aftermarket parts available. Sort of like small block chevys to a car guy.
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<br>I refuse to do any work to a Browning A-Bolt. But I am a highly opinionated GOSB. (I will define GOSB later).
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I have seen the gualing on the Abolt threads too.
<br>back around 92 at the shop I worked in, we where going to rebarrel one.
<br>The barrel was a bugger to get off. We had to heat it pretty good and finaly got it off.
<br>The thing was epoxied in! At least the crud in the now gauled threads looked, felt and smelled like burnt epoxy.
<br>This, to me said that it was not assembled right at the factory and they tried to fix it with glue.
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<br>That was the first and last one I ever took on to rebarrel.
<br>I wont work on em anymore either, unless it is to mount a scope or to put on a muzzle brake.
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<br>Celt

E,
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<br> OK, I got it. You are absolutely correct.
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<br> I would not consider the ABolt as a candidate for customizing either.
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<br>MM

Celt1,
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<br>That was an excellent explanation!
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<br>Our friend Mule Deer recently wrote a piece about tuning "factory stock" rifles, primarily Remingtons as I recall, which suggested/inferred that truing and lug lapping weren't critical factors in accuracy. Master Mule knows much more than I do about such things and perhaps some of it is just "urban legend", but I need to minimize the machanical variables that I can, as I bring enough human variables to the bench myself.
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<br>Sincerely,
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<br>Bearrr264

Bearrr,
<br>There is no myth or urban legend in truing everything.
<br>It is a must if you want to get all the accuracy out of a rifle you can. If everything is not in line, it wil not shoot as good as it can.
<br>It is not something that smiths do to make an extra buck either, hell, if I didnt have to do all that to make a rifle shoot like they should, I most certainly would not. It would be alot easier if I didnt have to.
<br>I do not know of one reputable smith known for accurate rifles, hunting, Bench, Tactical or otherwise that does not true the action.
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<br>One reason custom actions cost so much is that they are not mass produced and are checked for perfect "trueness" If they are not right, they get tossed.
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<br>You can put the very best barrel on an action that is out of true, and it still will not shoot like it should. Put that same barrel on the same action after it is properly trued and it will shoot noticably better. All other things in the system called a rifle must be done right as well.
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<br>Of course the varying degrees of how for an action is out of true will usualy show in accuracy respectively.
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<br>For the guy (or Gal) that does not care if thier rifle will only shoot 1 1/2" or even 3/4" at 100 this is fine, but for the discriminating rifle owner it is not.
<br>I am sure that Mr. Sisk and Mr. Ricks who post here would agree.
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<br>Can you point me in the right direction for the read on truing is a myth? I would like to read it.
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<br>Celt

Celt1
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<br>I remember reading that article and while I don't remember him specifically saying that truing doesn't help, what I inferred is that given the limitation of a factory stock and barrel there are other things that will provide a more noticeable improvement in accuracy on a factory rifle than truing.
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<br>I did not get the impression that JB was saying that truing didn't help. I did get the impression that unless you are going to go full out and get a custom barrel and stock, the gain inaccuracy would be negligible.
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<br>When I get home tonight I'll try to find the article. I will be happy to scan it and email it to you if I can find it and you'd like to read it.

Now, with that I will agree. I will not even do the truing / set back with a factory barrel anymore. IMO the factory barrel is not worth all this cost and work . I figure if someone wants all that they will do it right and get a barrel too.
<br>Bedding, trigger, crown and the occasional bore lapping is what helps factory rifles with factory barels the most.
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<br>Celt
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Celt1
<br>I would like to see that article also. I can see where truing may not help if you use the factory barrel. Please dont tell me all the sweating over getting everything square is not necessary. I sometimes wish it weren't necessary because I spend nearly as much time on the action as the rest of the rifle. Maybe someone can invent a way to square everthing in 10 minutes. That would sure speed things up around here.
<br>Mr Ricks, Celt1,Mr Howell, Rick Bin,...anyone have any short cuts that work ?
<br>Charlie

Yes. I have GREAT shortcut. I send mine to Charlie.
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<br>Rick

Charlie,
<br>You have mail
<br>Celt

I would think that the shape of a Browning Action would also make it harder to inlet or even get a good bedding job in a stock. Sean