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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,935 Likes: 1 |
I have always gotten more penetration with XTP,s than Gold Dots. Except the 158 grain Gold Dot in the 357 mag which I recovered that didn't expand at all and penetrated aplenty.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,956 |
Gold Dots are softer, due to the bonding process and generally thinner jacketed as well.
I've seen too many jackets peel/split off the XTP's just messing around with dry paper to poke anything with them. Plus the cast softnose is too easy to make and its infallible to boot!
You know me, I just find expanding jacketed bullets to be drawing straws when using handguns. Sometimes the mechanics can leave you wondering.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
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What is a "mid level charge of h110"?
My guess is that you were driving it too fast. Really??? You shouldn't be able to drive them "too fast" from any handgun. Got any other nuggets of wisdom, oh learn-ed sixgunner who can't get through a cylinderful without sobbing???
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,376 |
What is a "mid level charge of h110"?
My guess is that you were driving it too fast. Really??? You shouldn't be able to drive them "too fast" from any handgun. Got any other nuggets of wisdom, oh learn-ed sixgunner who can't get through a cylinderful without sobbinfg??? Well if you had half a working brain, you'd know that H110 isnt a powder for "mid-level" anything, which immediately raises questions about what the poster was doing. Also, the poster was dealing with a very dead deer. And intelligent people know that pretty pictures of mushroomed bullets domt kill any better. Lastly, too many folks use the 240gr xtp and dont have bullet breakup. So take your homosexual trolling elsewhere.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Over the counter and straight out the box, for an expanding jhp, I'm a big fan of the Black Hills load using the 240xtp. It has worked for me on quite a bit of hunted game, including boar and bear. But, if I intended to chase the biggest of black bear more often than general hunting of whitetail, I'd probably run a flat nosed cast bullet that was a bit heavier. I have little to no experience with the 300grain version of the xtp, being the 240 version has given me such an outstanding track record, but for an expanding bullet, a suggestion to go heavier than the 240 for the biggest black bear, if they were the rule and not the exception, might be worth considering.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,935 Likes: 1 |
Checkout this video of Lynne Thompson in Austrailia using a 44 mag with the 300 grain XTP. His outfitter told us on AR that the bullets held together very well and penetrated very well http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKTeEmNUkjw
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,124
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Well if you had half a working brain, you'd know that H110 isnt a powder for "mid-level" anything, which immediately raises questions about what the poster was doing. If you had a half-working brain, you would know that even H110 has a load range and that sometimes, the most accurate load is below maximum. And intelligent people know that pretty pictures of mushroomed bullets domt kill any better. Pictures don't kill? You haven't seen the pic I posted of the retarded, hairless, knuckle-dragging monkey? Lastly, too many folks use the 240gr xtp and dont have bullet breakup. There are reports in this very thread, schit for brains. So take your homosexual trolling elsewhere. Well, you know what they say about people who talk about queers all the time. I don't know if you'd suck one but you'd probably hold it in your mouth until the swelling went down.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,867 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
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Just about any quality 44 bullet will work on deer, but bears are a different story & 500 lb. bears are way different. There are very few 500 lb. bears taken with anything although some claim to take them. Spring bears have long coats & appear to be much bigger than they really are but they are much like a coyote, once you get them undressed they aren't nearly as big as you would think.
If I had to use a jacketed bullet (I don't) then it would be either the 270 gr. Speer Gold Dot, I've taken elk with it, or the 300 gr. XTP, by Hornady. As mentioned by John, Lynn Thompson used it on many head of big game in Austrailia with great success. My bullet of choice in a 44 is a 250 gr cast or bigger, they will give the penetration needed on big bears & will hold together, thats what you want on big, tough animals.
Dick We have some very experienced handgun hunters here, and Dock is one such man that I pay close attention to his advice, as it comes from decades of experience. I'm still waiting for the book!!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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WOW! I just skimmed through this deal I have got a lot of reading. Any ways I would reccomend going on the Marlin Owners forum. Someone did a wonderful exhaustive study of terminal bullet performance using the 444. To me the speer 270 grain seemed to do quite well.....I just have a hard time finding them in Idaho. The cast bullets outdid the cup and cores as a group if I remember correctly. I think the heavier deep curl was not bad, the Hornadys did not do as well if my memory is correct. I am going over to the site and re-read the study. Good Luck 2 all!
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,749
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
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Looks like it states the swift A frame 300 grain was the best cup and core. Ranch dog cast 300 grain? was the champ.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
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I got some 300 gr bullets made by a custom bullet maker. They are a soft point round nose design. Got them loaded full power but haven't killed anything with them yet.. They are pretty accurate out of my anaconda but a handful 6 th shot kinda stings..
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Have used various 240 HP on deer out to 100. They kill fast, and I don't doubt they would work just as well on bears. That said, I am using Lee 310's now in my 44s. Taking them into the high timber after elk next week, since the elk haven't moved down yet. I seat them out long and 21gr of H110 is mild and great-shooting in both handgun and lever gun. Still on hair at 150, though I'd be hard pressed to try it.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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There are very few 500 lb. bears taken with anything although some claim to take them. There are plenty of them around here We call them "small bears" Our biggest was 880 lbs
Last edited by Snyper; 11/14/14.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Here's two 240gr XTP's pushed by 74gr of BH-209 caught by a young buck. Both shots under 40 yards... ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/sgrxVfx.png) ![[Linked Image]](http://i.imgur.com/rR9UikG.jpg)
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll leave the idea of the XTP looking like a quarter at 175 yd impact speed from a 6" revolver and losing its jacket on a dinker up to the board. So the only "proof" this happened at 175 yds is a post on an internet forum? so I put my orange front sight across the top of her back He'd be awful high at 100 yds if it only drops that small amount at 175
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,956
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,956 |
Yep,
I left the judgment up to each individual. mystro seemed pretty happy with the bullet performance, and Hornady had no qualms posting the story, so why would I care?
His "proof" is just like your 880lb. bear.....
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,648
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Snyper, I know some very larger bears are taken ever year in NC, PA & a few other states but there are a whole lot more that are under 500 lbs than over, even in those states. Most bears are taken on spring hunts after they've been sleeping 5 months, they've got long hair but not much weight.
Dick
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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His "proof" is just like your 880lb. bear. No, HIS "proof" is hunting story hearsay on an internet forum The bear is documented reality: http://myfox8.com/2014/11/13/hunter-bags-second-largest-bear-killed-in-north-carolina/Hunter bags second largest bear killed in North Carolina
FOX 8 � 4 days ago
The animal is the second largest bear bagged in North Carolina, behind an 880-pound bear killed in Craven County in 1998, Olfenbuttel said. Even one that weighed 647 lbs was just the 17th largest taken in NC: http://gothunts.com/north-carolina-record-black-bear-confirmed/It took five years to do it, but the state of North Carolina finally confirmed Billy Walkowiak�s 2004 black bear as the 17th largest North Carolina record black bear ever taken in NC.
Billy�s North Carolina record black bear had an official weight of 647 pounds and was estimated to be nine years, nine months old. The record bruin was shot on a dog hunt in Hyde County, NC, a hotbed for big bears in the state. Like I said, we call a 500 lb bear a little one During the 2003-2004 season, North Carolina produced 48 bears in excess of 500 pounds at the coast but only six bears weighing more than 500 pounds in the mountains. Most bears are taken on spring hunts after they've been sleeping 5 months, they've got long hair but not much weight. There are no Spring Bear seasons in NC http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Hunting/Documents/2013-14-Big-Game-Season-Dates-QR.pdf
Last edited by Snyper; 11/18/14.
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Regular
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I hunt black bear in NC nearly every year. The tar heal state produces some of the biggest bears in the country -- period. I have seen a number that have exceeded 500-lbs, but you have to go deep to get 'em.
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