Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Ferguson MO 2.0 - No indictment in Eric Garner case...

Allow me...my own taxes are maxed out. I don't want to pay for a bunch of damned cameras. Any technology can be gamed and bypassed. This whole thing was already videoed. How in the world do you think there would have been any benefit to having a camera there?

Personally, I HATE cameras. They're already everywhere. If Obama is for them, then there is some twist to it. Hell, if the REPUBLICAN PARTY is for them, there is some twist to it. There almost always is with politicians. Look at Zero Care. Supposed to help poor folks and it ends up costing them more for inferior medical. That's what this would do...somehow.

Reign the government in and the cops will follow.

How would that alter the findings of the Grand Jury?
Travis

well this thing being video taped is kinda the whole point. There is no shortage of people that have responded to this video. On the one hand you have a faction that says you can't tell anything from the short video and on the other hand you have people that are saying this video is all you need to see to know that some change in approach is needed.

As a result of this being video taped, I am pretty certain that this man's wife is going to receive a pretty hefty settlement from the city.

So as a result is stands to reason that if cops wear body cameras (see the case in Rialto, CA) that behavior is modified to reduce complaints against the police and the city at large, and in turn , a reduction in legals fees and civil court findings.

You could even argue its a net savings in the long run.

The second issue is that if cops don't have body camera, you better believe the public at large will have one - and that isn't going to go away in the near future. Of course a camera that doesn't show the whole story is going to have a negative effect on the public at large.

If Darren Wilson had a body camera, you think Ferguson would burned to the ground right now?

oh I think it will.

The second issue is that if cops don't have body camera, you better believe the public at large will have one - and that isn't going to go away in the near future. Of course a camera that doesn't show the whole story is going to have a negative effect on the public at large.

If Darren Wilson had a body camera, you think Ferguson would have burned to the ground and rioting/protests erupted across the United States?

How would that alter the findings of the Grand Jury?

If Darren Wilson had a body camera, you think Ferguson would have burned to the ground and rioting/protests erupted across the United States?

It wouldn't. The truth often doesn't matter regarding the findings of a grand jury when police officers kill or maim civilians.

Fat black guy in NY?

I've only seen a short video of it.

Looks like one of the poo poo's got a rear naked choke or close variation on the guy, then "rode" him with it while the guy tossed the other cop's around.

A decently applied RNC should bring about nappey time in 5-10 seconds. Variables include size of dude's neck- He seemed to be a BIG boy-, hold well the RNC is applied, etc.

Could be like the Rodney King video- all we saw was the last part of the beatdown, no one videoed nice ole' Rodney on dope beating the hell out of the cops FIRST... So since we did not see the entire thing, it's kinda speculation.

Some notes-

*Yes you continue to hold a choke like that a good while after "dude" goes limp, he can die. It's a choke after all...

*A rear naked choke is a BLOOD choke, it works by compressing the carotid arteries, essentially blocking blood from blood. You first feel slight pressure in your head, eyes tend to narrow (depending on subject), then blackness comes. If the choke is good it can come on relatively quickly. I would guess from just the quick clip I saw, that the choke was not locked up well.

That sort of BLOOD choke can give you the sensation of "I can't breathe" but technically it isn't attacking your airway, but the blood to your brain.

Yet another variable is that with a big ole' head, or a fat guy without much of a neck, or if you are losing the first hold (choking arm), you can often simply transition slightly to an air choke, via using the blade of the forearm to pull into the front of the neck/trachea area.

Like any AIR choke, this causes IMMEDIATE pain and immediate reaction. Like I said at the campout when we taught and demonstrated this- people tend to "fight" more with an air choke. If you want to put them down easy, the blood choke is better IMO.

So...... further complicating things is the fact that "dude" seemed to be about four fifty. Big guys you can't restrain well, arm locks, shoulder locks are usually a waste of time, taking him to ground MAY have been a good choice provided one or more of the officers were truly used to ground work, in other words NOT just the short bit they get in police training. Guys that big usually DON'T move well on the ground unless they train ground fighting- at first glance I'd say very very small chance "dude" was a ground fighter. "The ground is an ocean, We are sharks and most people can't swim" doesn't apply to "dude" I'm afraid.

I have fought with guys damn near that size, at 180'ish. I ALWAYS hunt chokes first on anyone that size and while I'll "play" a little bit with most people I try not to with super huge people. I've had huge guys that could bench press cars with an arm outstretched having them dead to rights with a tight arm bar, or caught in a technically perfect kimura (shoulder lock) that have literally shook me off like a rag doll due to their size/strength. You choke people like that. Why? CAUSE EVERYONE HAS TO BREATHE AND EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE BLOOD TO THEIR BRAIN. Size matters not where oxygen and blood is concerned....

So the cops probably did correct.

If I had to guess, other than seeing another 30 seconds or minute of video where the po po's were maybe holding the RNC AFTER "dude" went out- I would have to guess that due to his gross obesity, dude probably had a heart attack.

There was a story going around at a seminar one time about how "back in the day" some grappler that was 70'ish was practicing blood chokes with another guy. Older guy evidently doesn't tap and takes a quick nap. Partner wakes him up, he's fine. Later that day or next, he dies. Evidently some "plague" in the blood is broken loose during the choke out and supposedly made it to his heart and caused a heart attack. 2nd hand info, take it for what it's worth, seems possible though.

Oh. I wasn't aware.
Thanks a bunch.

well we are at an impass on our opinions.

I don't argue that the people wanted to riot

but video tape evidence showing Michael Brown attacking Wilson would have squelched it, it would have prevented Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton from making their march to Ferguson and would have dampened hours of liberal media building up an antagonistic public.

and you are already being video taped by cops with dashboard cams, and a good portion of your day in any urban area is being video taped by a number of police accessible cameras - ATM, Security, webcams, etc.,

but the issue is - in the case of Michael Brown, -the actual event wasn't recorded, what was recorded was video of "witnesses" lying about what they saw, police responding in riot gear to "protestors" without any context

That is the danger of just reyling on the public at large.

You asked.

Once upon a time there was video of a group of police officers using less lethal force on a subject. The case went to trial.

The jury found all the officers were conducting themselves within the confines of the law and were determined to be not-guilty.

I don't recall the video "squelching" any riots.

Like I stated previously. You have a lot to learn about law enforcement.



Travis

which is why I advocate a cop wearing a body camera - yes, it will alter behavior on some police but it will also protect police and ultimately the citizens and large from outrage against speculation on police brutality

I spoke to a friend about this 'choke hold' thing. He has decades of experience teaching, and learning about grappling, holds and the like. This is his take.