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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
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Must have been a hunting party of clerics, huh? (Sure sounds like a 'holy' project anyway. )
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
I did leave out the original broadside shot. That was two more holes... Holier than thou, obviously...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Seeing that a posters son here killed one with an 80 ttsx, its not what can be done, but more like tell me how much better a 270 is than a 300 and not just that, but WHY.
Flatter trajectory? By how much at what distance?
Something that can bite back I'd just be happier with more displacement....
That being said my buddy that guides the big bears, his guide gun has been 338 win mag and 225 Barnes for years.
I just am thinking along the lines when I gear up for somethign big and dangerous you want everything on your side, for the worst case scenario. Its not quite like shooting a moose. At least IMHO.
That being said they can be done in with almost anything as noted in my first sentence. Art has shot the 270 length wise through 9' bear with an exit, how much more penetration is needed? Actually the bear in '12 was significantly over 9' and much as I hate to post such a thing because folks will start getting the idea there are a lot of them... it was also over 10' by every legitimate measure. Not only did 4 270gr TSXs go full length and exit, but so did 3 210gr TSXs from a 338WM. NUff said for me if they will do that. Thats big bears for sure. Hard to argue with success for sure.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
OlBlue shot a smaller Kodiak bear some years back that turned after the first shot. Second shot entered a ham and went full length, exiting perfectly through the ear hole without damaging the hide at all.
That was a 300gr NPT from the 375H&H...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554 |
OlBlue shot a smaller Kodiak bear some years back that turned after the first shot. Second shot entered a ham and went full length, exiting perfectly through the ear hole without damaging the hide at all.
That was a 300gr NPT from the 375H&H... That was my favorite round when I owned my M70 375 H&H, it's a devastating bullet.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
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To me that was an exceptional thing, not ordinary... The Xs have come to be absolutely reliable and the reason I dote on them...
I want every bullet shot at a bear to find dirt on the other side...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
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To me that was an exceptional thing, not ordinary... The Xs have come to be absolutely reliable and the reason I dote on them...
I want every bullet shot at a bear to find dirt on the other side... I know you're not a fan of the Partition and that's fine. I will continue to use them as they have never failed me, not once.
That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.
Steelhead
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
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To me that was an exceptional thing, not ordinary... The Xs have come to be absolutely reliable and the reason I dote on them...
I want every bullet shot at a bear to find dirt on the other side... I know you're not a fan of the Partition and that's fine. I will continue to use them as they have never failed me, not once. Me Too --- Mel
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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but Scenarshooter shot his with a .260 without drama, IIRC
The guy also killed bull elk and bison with a .220 Swift. The guy is a great shot, no doubt, but I'm not sure his choices should set the standard for others to go by.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
To me that was an exceptional thing, not ordinary... The Xs have come to be absolutely reliable and the reason I dote on them...
I want every bullet shot at a bear to find dirt on the other side... I know you're not a fan of the Partition and that's fine. I will continue to use them as they have never failed me, not once. I don't think thats a fair statement but the partitions do loose weight, they are designed to. And the Barnes is a better way to do it, accomplish the same and generally at little to no weight loss. Being that weight is part of the formula for penetration, I'd say I"m allowed to say Partition was the holy grail of its day, and rightfully so compared to standard cup and core bullets. But that Barnes is the holy grail of today by far. I"d rather trail it a bit longer if need but but always have two holes.. The partition of 180s in a 300 wtyb failed to exit on a frontal shot on a whitetail of about 150 pounds live weight, shot in the front of the chest facing me and found in the hindquarter. That was my go to elk load if I ever got the chance.... after the deer and some similiar instances on Nilgai, no way. Though to be fair John B has told me if I"d have gone to 200 partitions IO"d have been fine. No problem, found Barnes and don't have to worry at all anymore. My bullet this year out of the measly 338-06, 210 ttsx, broke the neck, and shoulder of that moose, and was almost able to exit the hide on the off side. That was something I don't think a partition would have made it that far penetration wise. Of course the first thing either bullet would have done was break the neck so it wouldn't have been an issue... Oh yeah, last partition example, same load as above, 225 pound live weight white tail. Only target I had at 125 ish yards was his neck. Bullet broke it, but was siting there out of energy peeled open on THIS side of the vertebrae.... Never made it even through the vertebrae. That was about the last test of the 180s for me...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,669 Likes: 2 |
Yes!!! I turned a TSX thread into a NPT bashing!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
The beauty of the 375 is you're shooting enough bullet, and the velocities are sedate enough that your harder pressed to pick a bad bullet than to big a good one. Monometal, cup/core, partition, bonded, 270, 300... put it where it matters and it's up to the task.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Congrats?
NP never were a bad bullet at all to me. Just that there are better, at least ones that perform more the way I want a bullet to...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
At a time when the internet naysayers probably greatly outnumbered their advocates, I was definitely in the latter Barnes camp. That was before I opened my eyes and realized that Barnes X iterations have issues just like all the rest. I have caught the likes of the 225 from the 340 Weatherby in caribou at around 100 yards. The most meat damage/loss I've ever had on moose came from the same bullet which failed to expand, the wound bleeding for an extended period of time via a main artery into the muscles layers; no bone broken, no exit. The last X types I've used, a 120 in the 7mm-08 and a 235 in a 375 wildcat both failed to exit and neither broke any significant bone. The latter did hit the hide based on the fact that the hole stopped right beneath the hide, while the bullet evidently rebounded back in as it was several inches inside the wound. Good bullets? Yes. Magic? No, and bullets one must use with some discretion. The Partition is still an excellent benchmark bullet that is a standard by which others are measured. It may not exceed many of the more recent ones in things that they are best at, but it is still a bullet that does more things well -- reliably, something very few others can do. It seems no small irony that the tipped TSX (TTSX) has arrived at or close to the pinnacle of 'X-perfection' by imitating the Partition in many respects.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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tell me about this '.375 wildcat'?
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's nothing more than the 350 Rem Mag necked up to .375. It pushes a 300 grain bullet @ 2300, a 270 @ 2400, and the 235 TSX @ 2600 (out of my 20" Pac-Nor barrel). I'm sure a bolder more daring individual might lean on it harder but those numbers were what I was hoping to see so I stopped there. It's a handy little package.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 30 |
Klik,
Nice rifle!
You think the cartridge might also work if necked down to 9.3mm?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Now why didn't I think of that? I might have saved a pile of dough��.and perhaps have been able to shoot factory loads - paper patched with masking tape of course- if I ever got in a bind. �or NOT! If marriage, kids, and looniness didn't conflict so much, I could seen even having a similar rifle made up with Waters' 416 Express (which was written up in an older issue of Rifle magazine I believe.) But how many just-in-case, bear guns does a person need anyway?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Count me as another vote for the 270 gr TSX. In the .375 it is my favorite for our the big bears. Unlike the TSX in many of the smaller calibers, it has a large enough hollow point to make it 100% reliable. As good as it is however there is no need to throw away your Partitions, A-Frames, North Forks or CEB's.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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