When you shoot a Mashburn, when you close the door you are in range, right Bob?
30338: Well...I guess the Mashburn has some legs. But I have not been in that situation with it yet....hope I live long enough
But was with a 300 Win Mag a couple of times. (No, I was nowhere near the truck,or the horses). And it were bulls, the kind I went for.
Once, i shot from where I was (good decision),and another, I decided to cross the canyon,which was almost a good idea but did not work,and he got away.
But I was younger, more impetuous,and there were no LRF's or NF scopes, back then. Today, my game plan might be different.
In support of everybody's comments, I am planning to go hunt next weekend with a close friend here in Texas. I've loaded up my .270WBy with 150gr partitions, 140gr accubonds,140gr Hornady SPBT, and 140gr TTSX. Will put these bullets to the test, and report back if successful. My friend is not in support of using a "target" bullet to hunt with, he much prefers a hunting bullet intended for the use of killing game. I tend to also lean more towards hunting bullets, but as of recently the Berger 130gr VLDs are shooting SOBs out of my 6.5 creedmoor. All of your comments are being considered, and are much appreciated.
Scenars are tougher than some other high-BC bullets, but would you expect the exit hole to be the same "relatively small" size at, say, 175 yards? On an animal half that size?
When I mentioned fist-sized exit holes with high-BC bullets on deer-sized animals, it's because I've seen them on a number of occasions.
I shot a Mule deer last season with a 168 VLD at 200 yards, and the exit was about a half-dollar sized as well.
In the last 2 years I've seen 6 critters killed with Scenars or VLDs (not a huge number, I know) and they have all died very quickly when shot in the right place.
"Shut up, load a Scenar or VLD, and go hunting"... How's that work again? grin...
The Scenars certainly impressed me, and those 180s are absolutely wicked flyers. I saw the 155s and 180s penetrate a lot of meat and bone this season in particular between Dalls, mulies, and elk.
It should only be about another 15 years before I draw a Bighorn tag here in Colorado, so those Unlimited Units are sounding fairly enticing right about now....
That's very illustrative of the differences in two bullets in different cartridges.
But it's also not what we're talking about, because there isn't NEARLY that much difference in wind drift between a 160 Partition and, say, a 168 JLK (which in an earlier post you suggested would be a fairer comparison than a 180 Berger) in the 7mm Remington Magnum.
I ran the number for the two bullets you suggest through Berger's ballistic program, using actual BC data from Bryan Litz's latest book, BALLISTIC PERFORMANCE OF RIFLE BULLETS, an almost 500-page book of the results of his actual range tests of the BC's of various bullets. One of the interesting things about Bryan's tests is how often the listed BC's of various LR bullets are higher than reality, partly because many companies (especially smaller companies) only list a best-case scenario. Well, it turns out the 168 JLK is one of those bullets, and it actually drifts only about 2" less in a 10-mph sidewind at 500 yards than a 160 Partition.
So no, somebody using the same wind hold with both bullets wouldn't hit a wolf in the butt with one and in the chest with the other. Plus, I would hope that anybody who's preparing for a possible 500-yard shot on a bighorn ram will have been practicing with the bullet and load they'll be using, so can make a decent wind hold with that load.
As I stated earlier in this thread, BC doesn't make nearly as much difference as many people think at ranges out to 500 yards, given spitzer bullets. I didn't get this information just from running the numbers through ballistic programs, but because astonishingly enough, I do a lot of longer-range shooting throughout the year. This is partly because i have to test a lot of rifles and loads, but also because I can shoot at anywhere up to mile on some public land only 10 minutes from my house. I don't often shoot at a mile, but often do at 600-1000.
So many shooters are fixated on high BC these days they often forget there are two bullets factors in wind drift, BC and velocity. A couple of local friends who decided to start playing with longer-range shooting were out practicing at 500 yards this summer, up in the local mountains. One was shooting his new .300 magnum with 200-grain AccuBonds at 2900 fps, and the other the .270 Weatherby Magnum he's used to kill a pile of pronghorn, mule deer and elk over the past decade, with 130-grain Partitions at 3500 fps.
After the reading they'd recently done, they assumed the .300 magnum's bullets would drift far less than the .270 Weatherby's. Instead, they were astonished to find that in the same conditions, there wasn't any practical difference, since for practical purposes the bullets all drifted about the same amount, close enough together for killing big game at 500 yards.
Neither one of them had ever used a ballistic program, so I showed them one on the Internet, which showed them the results they got weren't an anomaly, since there was only about 2 inches difference in wind drift.
Now, if either one of them wants to shoot beyond 500 yards, the .300 would definitely have an advantage. But they don't, partly because they saw how many weird things wind does to bullets at 500 yards.
John,
A lot of that jives with what I've said in this thread. I even mentioned that the difference in wind drift between the 160 PT and 168 JLK in a 10 mph crosswind isn't huge, but there is an advantage there. I also said that a guy needs to practice and be proficient at shooting under given atmospheric conditions on targets before trying on game, regardless of chambering/bullet chosen. The one thing I would point out, is you reference a 10 mph wind. Well the difference between the PT and the 168 VLD (using Litz numbers) at 480 meters, using atmospherics where I shoot, is more like 7" of drift in a 15 mph wind, and 10" in a 20 mph wind. So you'd either have to limit the wind conditions that you'd shoot in more with the 160 PT, or else practice a lot more to be able to accurately call the wind drift.
I'll have to check my bullet inventory, but do know there's a BUNCH of 139 6.5 Scenars. Have used them a little in a custom 6.5x55 with a 1-8 Lilja (where they shoot really well) but need to try them in the 26 Nosler.
If I were your age I'd sure be looking at the unlimited areas. A lot can happen in 15 years....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
You call a breeze something that's close to a hurricane..
Dude, perfect example is when you had your 6.5 SAUM and I was shooting a 257 Roberts. It was pretty 'breezy' that day and your setup(I forget what bullet?) worked way better(easier) than the 117 Gameking.
You call a breeze something that's close to a hurricane..
Dude, perfect example is when you had your 6.5 SAUM and I was shooting a 257 Roberts. It was pretty 'breezy' that day and your setup(I forget what bullet?) worked way better(easier) than the 117 Gameking.
Originally Posted by captain seafire
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
In support of everybody's comments, I am planning to go hunt next weekend with a close friend here in Texas. I've loaded up my .270WBy with 150gr partitions, 140gr accubonds,140gr Hornady SPBT, and 140gr TTSX. Will put these bullets to the test, and report back if successful. My friend is not in support of using a "target" bullet to hunt with, he much prefers a hunting bullet intended for the use of killing game. I tend to also lean more towards hunting bullets, but as of recently the Berger 130gr VLDs are shooting SOBs out of my 6.5 creedmoor. All of your comments are being considered, and are much appreciated.