Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Difference between 2f and 3f

I'm kind of new muzzle loaders and was wondering the difference between 2f and 3f. I know that 2f is courser but I've read of some guys using 3f in the barrel and in the pan. What advantages does 3f have over 2f in the barrel? Is there any advantage to using 3f in the pan over 4f, other than having one powder for everything. I'm currently shooting 75 gr. of 2f, can I safely shoot the same amount of 3f? Will 3f work with PA conicals?

Sorry for all the questions but I figured I'd get'em all out there at once.

What rifle are you shooting this in?

Black powder burns at the same rate, but the finer granulation of 3F allows it to get consumed faster than more coarse 2f. You can use 3F in the pan, although I've never tried it personally. A little bit of 4f lasts forever. I've heard that 2F is marginally useful in the pan, but again, I've never tried it. Don't ever use 4F in your barrel, only for the pan.

3F is usually better in shorter barrels, as it will be consumed faster, where 2F is usually used in longer barrels. Any rifle can shoot either powder, it's just a matter of which will be best, and you really don't know until you've shot it to find out. Usually, it's not effective to shoot bigger charges of 2F in short barrels.

Whereabouts in PA are you? Cabela's area here.

FWIW I switched to 3f from 2f and was able to reduce my load by about 10g and get, what appeared to be the same velocity... not measured, but based upon trajectory. I also figured it'd have better ignition due to greater surface area (finer grains).

Really, the difference is probably academic.

In one of the Lyman blackpowder books, they compared using 2f and 3 f with pressure data. They found that 3f gave higher velocity and higher pressure for the same weight charge. You could use less 3f and get the same velocity.

The three main benefits to using 3F are faster ignition, less fouling, and more power than 2F.

If you reduce the load 10% you lose the added power part, but gain cheaper to shoot.

I'm shooting a Traditions Busckskinner with a 1:66" 21" barrel. I've noticed a few unburnt granules when cleaning. I'll give 3f a try and see if I notice a difference. It's too late to change before this years season, though I am planning on heading to the range tomorrow. What about 3f with PA connicals, would that be safe to try?

I'm in central PA, about an hour west of State College. I've been through your neck of the woods a few times.

you'll always get that. Half of the fouling you get in BP is unburnt powder.

Yeah, black powder is a very inefficient powder. If you reduced your load so you had no unburned powder blowing out the muzzle you'd have to hunt squirrels

I use 100 grains of 3 f,which is about the same as 110 grains of 2f .swiching to 75 grains of 3f should be no problem for you,and you may not even see much of an impact shift.

I had the same question when I bought new powder at Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop (Berks County PA) about a week ago. They said that they have no problem with 3F. However, they recommend 2F for typical hunting use.

The folks at Dixon's believe that the coarser-grained 2F allows for more space (i.e. oxygen) between grains, which may provide for more reliable ignition.

I'm just passing along what I was told....

I like to use 110 grains of 2F in my Hawken 54 for shooting round balls. I only use Goex

I can't agree with that. 3F in a flintlock will shoot better than 2F.

Losing 10% power is not true. Almost everyone loads by volume, smaller granules means more weight/powder than the larger granules in a specified volume. So 90gr by volume of 3F is heavier than 90gr of 2F by volume, 3F packs more efficiently leaving less air, there is actually more 3F powder than 2F in a set volume. Combined with 3F being faster burning, which is why the ignition is faster, you need to reduce a 3F load by about 10% to retain similar energy to the 2F load.

In my GPH flint and 338 powerbelts, with 90gr 2F I average 1445fps, with 90gr 3F I average 1530fps, with 80gr 3F I average 1406fps. So 80gr 3F equals 90gr 2f in energy.

And related to the above posts about burn efficiency, powder does not burn at one set rate, it is not linear, it burns exponentially faster with increasing pressure. This has an effect on field performance. I found a 245 powerbelt with 100gr 3F yields 1500 fps while a 295 powerbelt yields 1596fps, one would expect a substantially lighter bullet to travel faster than a heavier bullet with the same charge. But with less pressure of the lighter bullet that large amount of powder just isn't burned efficiently. Increase bullet weight or loading pressure and you'll ignite more powder.

You'll find if you weigh the loads of 3F and 2F which eliminates the packing tighter in a volume measure. The 3F will be about 10% faster in fps.

I don't have access to a chronograph, but would 75gr. of either with a .490 PRB result in enough velocity to cleanly kill a deer at 50 yds. (assuming I do my part)? I don't plan on shooting much beyond 50 as my accuracy greatly diminishes beyond that.

Yes, it will kill a deer. Is that your most accurate load?

75gr is plenty. Take high percentage shots at less than 100 yards and you'll be fine.

One of the reasons I asked about barrel length is that it will aid in consuming powder to have a longer barrel. I shoot 120gr 2F in my long rifle, but that has a 46" barrel. That charge would not get fully consumed in a Hawken, I don't think. I guess it might, but I would not want to bet on it.

generally speaking, 3-f burns a little faster and cleaner than 2-f.

Which is better? It depends on the gun. Just like a center-fire rifle may shoot a better group with the correct load of one type of powder, muzzle loading guns can be the same. It pays in accuracy to do some experimenting with powder granulation and charge weight. Especially in the medium size bores. Small bore rifles (45 cal and smaller) typically shoot best with 3-f. The large bores (62 cal and larger) usually do best with 2-f though there are exceptions. The middle caliber rifles (50 cal up to 60) is where it really pays to try both granulation of powder.

As far as what you prime a flintlock with, any granulation from 4-f to 2-f will work. Several of my shooting buddies use 3-f for prime and main charge in every flintlock they shoot, rifle or smooth bore.

I have tried it all in my 62/20 gauge trade gun. On the bench rest I can discern a slight difference. Off-hand or in the field I can not. The fastest ignition I get is with 2-f for the main charge and 4-f in the pan. I use that load when I shoot for score. In the field I have used 2-f in the pan and it works just fine. In fact, it works better on very damp and humid days. The 2-f just doesn't seem to attract moisture as quickly as the 4-f will.

I think my friends who use 3-f for everything are not giving up much in field shooting but I usually beat them in matches. The faster ignition time seems to help my target shooting.

My four 50 caliber percussion rifles are the guns that show the largest variation in groups depending on which granulation of powder I load them with. One shoots much better with 2-f, two shoot best with 3-f and one shoots the same with either. So it pays to try both and let the gun show which it will shoot best.

Soldiers shooting smoothbore muskets used to use powder from the paper cartridge to prime their pans, I believe, but they usually had great big eroded touchholes. A pound of 4F for priming will last most folks forever.

Heck yeah....

I live near Dixon's shop in PA, and I get their little 1/4lb plastic priming bottles of 4F that they make up from the 1lb cans. They last FOREVER.

A lot of folks use way too much prime, too. I'll mess with my rifles to see how small a priming charge I can get away with reliably. They go much faster with minimal prime than by filling up the pan, or at least to me it seems so.