Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Five shot groups @ 300 yards

Okay- I won't...

It would be neat if one guy could shoot 5 different rifles once at 300 yards and get a sub MOA group. In the X-ring.

I would be profoundly impressed.

I'm sorry, my fingers just sort of took over. I really don't mean that. Well, maybe a little.

Merry Christmas fellow fizzers!

I"ve often considered building a 300 foot indoor test tunnel here. Would compliment my benches to 600 and then a single bench at 982.

But the time and opportunity to do it have never been right enough vs the finances.

But FWIW, I have benches 100 yard increments to 600, actually a couple need to be rebuilt right now, but thats besides the point.

What I can say is that I needed PROVEN groups at 300 and 600 yards for what the wife and I were shooting.

And I can say that its much easier to test at 100 than further... but lets say over the years the 100 yard groups lied often enough vs what you would see furhter on out that the ONLY use of the 100 yard bench was for folks that wanted to sight in their deer rifles.

I got to where I basically ONLY shot at 300 and 600, doing minor sprints of testing at 200 some days if the mirage at 300 was really bad.

I'd be a LOT more interested in accuracy testing at 300 to read about than 100, but then the accuracy testing I see written up at 100 doesn't really tell anyone anything anyway, unless I"m missing the creme of the crop articles, seems that we only shoot factory rifles with factory ammo on articles, or maybe a few reloads, but we don't ever do a FULL workup to see what the rifle is actually capable.

Merry Christmas to all. I am thankful for this site, and almost all that are on it, except the pure chit stirring azzholes... But I digress.

Even when a lot of us disagree, we've agreed to do so. And we all learn on a continual basis.

Granted one that shoots all factory under MOA at 100 is probably a top line gun and will only get better with reloads and will likely shoot fine pretty far out there too.

What I would like to see is somebody (or a number of people) drop down into a field position and in an allowed time of 3-4 seconds including chambering a round, put a single shot into the X ring at 300 yards, the results I believe would be VERY interesting and entertaining...

Royce, I've never posted any pics yet but when I get the feature figured out I'm going to post pics and do something that I believe nobody has ever done here on the fire that I know of.

I'm going to go to the rifle range and shoot 3 shot 300 yd groups with 4 different rifles every day for 5 days and post the accuracy results. The reason for such a test would be to show consistency and not perhaps posting the best groups only.

At any given time one can only expect from a rifle what it will give you on its worst day.

Shod

A hearty ditto to this.

Shod
I'll be interested in seeing the results of that test. What I have always wanted to know was what the worst my rifle would do. From that, I could improve on it's worse to make it a more accurate and dependable hunting tool.
Royce

A bunch of us did this challenge a year or so ago. In my opinion,properly smithed rifles with good barrels, and good scopes shoot great cold, clean, dirty, or hot. "Cold bore", should be renamed, "Cold brain". With most shooters it takes a shot or two to settle in...not the rifle. If it is the rifle, it should be replaced, or rebarreled.

Exactly.

Cold bore shot = wind meter

Jeff,

Many magazines do have specific procedures for testing that must be followed, for instance AMERICAN RIFLEMAN'S five, 5-shot groups at 100 yards with three different kinds of factory ammo. Plus, even when testing for magazines that provide more leeway, there simply isn't time (which equals money) to work up specific handloads for each rifle to really test its capabilities.

That said, when possible I do work up specific loads for some rifles, and test beyond 100 if there is time. Usually, however, the load I "work up" is basically a powder charge and bullet that's shot well in other rifles of the same chambering, though on rare occasions an ammo company provides the info on exactly what they use in a specific round. (Hornady's excellent 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is an example.) I load it and tweak the seating depth a little, and if the rifle shoots well at 100 (and they usually do) then I stretch it out. Or sometimes I have some match ammo on hand that will work, say for .308.

As mentioned in a previous post, I tested a .308 out to 600, and have also tested a few rifles even farther, including a Savage .338 Lapua at 1000. But most readers of many magazines aren't going to get much out of that anyway, since most readers don't often shoot beyond 100. So that sort of testing is limited to certain magazines, and certain rifles.

Merry Christmas,

Well, Merry Christmas, kids.

UKdave,



I read about a guy who invited all manner of gun writers to come and shoot at his cardboard cutout deer at a known 500 yards. They could use any rifle they wanted. Maybe a dozen tried to hit the "deer". Only one did. That was Jim Carmichael using a Savage .25-06.

He told me most gun writers shoot with their typewriters. This was a few years ago. After spending so much time with John Lachuk I believe Jim.

It makes sense now, I've been aware for some time that most loads spread more MOA than expected at distance. But, still some loads do better than expected and that;s why we have to shoot at distance to know rather than guess from 100 yard targets.

Egad.....most " average" hunters are not concerned about what a tuned rifle/load can do at 300 yrds..at least not the "average" at our coffee-clutch. For many, anything over 80 yrds is way too far..bait-pile distance.

3-4 seconds...? How is it that you came to your time?

People way underestimate time, and way overestimate their skill. Standing to prone, chamber a round, and fire in four seconds is around what a top level 3 Gun competitor will do at 100 yards for a hit on 6-8 inch targets.

CGPAUL
My guess from the sounds of your post is that you a a brush or timber deer hunter- That is some of the most difficult and exciting hunting there is.
Here where I live, it's not better or worse than that type of hunting, just different. For a long time, I had just one or two rifles that I used, and they would be used on ground squirrels, coyotes and prairie dogs well past 300 yards, and deer antelope and elk where the typical shot was out to 300 yards and sometimes shots were past 400 yards. Drinking around with groups at 300 and 400 yards was part of the fun and games.
For lots of hunters, 300 yard groups and the related BS that goes with it is about as relevant as the backside of the moon. And more power to them. The Benoit family in Vermont is without equal when it comes to northern whitetail hunting, and I'd be surprised if they ever shot a 300 yard group, and I'd be downright shocked if they measured one if they did shoot it!

All 3 rifles I'm apt to take to the Trans-Pecos for Mule Deer will put the first round from a cold, fouled, barrel in a 3 inch black bullseye at 250 yards, shooting from the high seat on my hunting "jeep", shooting straight upwind or downwind.

The fact that they will put a couple more pretty close to the first one breeds confidence, which is a good thing.

The three rifles that go with me to PD towns will put 5 shots in a one inch bull at 200 yards off a bench with no wind. Honesty compels me to state that they may have only done this once or twice since the "no wind" is a rare condition around here.

As far as the O P........ I sure wouldn't run out and buy a particular model and cartridge combo because M D could shoot tiny groups at 500 yards with one. My 'smith is of the opinion that a good barrel will shoot any good bullet reasonably well at any range.

Makes sense to me.

Well DD I tried, sort of as it was colder than I like for shooting groups. 28 degrees and a 7-15 wind, direction was from the 8. 28 shots in 18 minutes. Lower left I actually shot for group, the others were just aim and fire.
Good practice for the zombie varmint apocalypse.

Look in the benchrest history and see that even in perfect conditions , The gentlemen at the infamous "Houston Warehouse" usually only shot at 100 yds. They had the perfect atmosphere( inside,climate controlled and perfect light)and the ability to shoot 300 yds. And almost never shot past 100.... I believe because they wanted them zero groups all the time and did not like to shoot "Big Groups" . It was stated that they rarely even shot at 200 and these were some fine shooters, benchrest hall of famers...some of them. They were testing outer limits type accuracy and still stuck with 100 yds. I wish they would have stretched things out and used a few guns other then 100 yds br guns and short .22 and 6mm bullets. It could have been an interesting study. They were looking for BR hall of fame points.