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So how do you set your die to load 50 rounds to the exact seating depth off the ogive? Seems to me you need to make adjustments for every round. YOUR measurment is off the ogive regardless of where the seating stem touches the bullet. Once your dummy round comes out of your seating dies with the measurement you want, tighten the ring and load as many as you want.....you will need no other adjustment to your seating die for the same loads as you mentiond above. The process is the same regardless of where on the bullet you get your measurement from. But, you will be better off going from base to ogive. Does this help you? This is what has me confused...sorry, I know I'm being a pain. Seems like the ogive would vary per bullet in the same box, so of the 50 rounds you produce, maybe only 10 would be 2 thousandths off the lands, others could be 3, 4, 5 or even right at the lands. Again, sorry. Just trying to understand this a bit better. In the past, I just used the marker technique, set my die from the tip and went to town.
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Stop reading that page as you are really confusing yourself. Seriously. The seating stem simply moves the bullet into the neck. If you want to know the bullets relationship to the lands at that point, base to ogive is what you want. ASSUMING you took a fired case, slightly sized the neck, seated a bullet long, chambered the fuggin thing and took that measurement as a starting point.... If this is not helping you, please tell me how you found your lands in the first place.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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So how do you set your die to load 50 rounds to the exact seating depth off the ogive? Seems to me you need to make adjustments for every round. YOUR measurment is off the ogive regardless of where the seating stem touches the bullet. Once your dummy round comes out of your seating dies with the measurement you want, tighten the ring and load as many as you want.....you will need no other adjustment to your seating die for the same loads as you mentiond above. The process is the same regardless of where on the bullet you get your measurement from. But, you will be better off going from base to ogive. Does this help you? This is what has me confused...sorry, I know I'm being a pain. Seems like the ogive would vary per bullet in the same box, so of the 50 rounds you produce, maybe only 10 would be 2 thousandths off the lands, others could be 3, 4, 5 or even right at the lands. Again, sorry. Just trying to understand this a bit better. In the past, I just used the marker technique, set my die from the tip and went to town. We must have been typing at the same time. No need to be sorry! Satisfy your curiosity by measuring the length of random bullets out of a box using a comparator. What do you like for bullets? You will be surprised how little that variance will be. Base to ogive will prove to be your best bet...always.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
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So how do you set your die to load 50 rounds to the exact seating depth off the ogive? Seems to me you need to make adjustments for every round. YOUR measurment is off the ogive regardless of where the seating stem touches the bullet. Once your dummy round comes out of your seating dies with the measurement you want, tighten the ring and load as many as you want.....you will need no other adjustment to your seating die for the same loads as you mentiond above. The process is the same regardless of where on the bullet you get your measurement from. But, you will be better off going from base to ogive. Does this help you? This is what has me confused...sorry, I know I'm being a pain. Seems like the ogive would vary per bullet in the same box, so of the 50 rounds you produce, maybe only 10 would be 2 thousandths off the lands, others could be 3, 4, 5 or even right at the lands. Again, sorry. Just trying to understand this a bit better. In the past, I just used the marker technique, set my die from the tip and went to town. The ogive is a function of the die that makes the bullets. Your odds of the ogive being in the same place, bullet to bullet is A LOT higher than the tip - tips being plastic or exposed lead most likely and not something checked real hard for QC. The die that made the bullet is. Ogive won't move around near as much. Why do you feel that the ogive is so different, bullet to bullet but the tip wouldn't be? I used the OAL gauge - got 4 of the same readings for where the ogive is meeting the lands on my rifle. I then take a fired case, make sure the stem is leaving the bullet seated REAL long and just keep working it down till the seated bullet, measured from the base to the ogive is the same as the readings I took with the OAL gauge. I start at the lands and fire several groups of various charge weights to find the one that gives the best. Then I work with seating depth if I feel there's more accuracy to be had. The nice thing about starting at the lands is if I want to play with seating depth - there's only one direction to worry about. Farther off.
Me
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Joined: Oct 2014
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OP
Campfire Regular
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Bullets:
7-08: 120 NBT and 140 AB
243: 95 NBT
17 Rem: 25 Berger Match Target & 25 Hornady HP
223: Haven't decided. Mostly for plinking/training, something cheap.
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Campfire Regular
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So how do you set your die to load 50 rounds to the exact seating depth off the ogive? Seems to me you need to make adjustments for every round. YOUR measurment is off the ogive regardless of where the seating stem touches the bullet. Once your dummy round comes out of your seating dies with the measurement you want, tighten the ring and load as many as you want.....you will need no other adjustment to your seating die for the same loads as you mentiond above. The process is the same regardless of where on the bullet you get your measurement from. But, you will be better off going from base to ogive. Does this help you? This is what has me confused...sorry, I know I'm being a pain. Seems like the ogive would vary per bullet in the same box, so of the 50 rounds you produce, maybe only 10 would be 2 thousandths off the lands, others could be 3, 4, 5 or even right at the lands. Again, sorry. Just trying to understand this a bit better. In the past, I just used the marker technique, set my die from the tip and went to town. The ogive is a function of the die that makes the bullets. Your odds of the ogive being in the same place, bullet to bullet is A LOT higher than the tip - tips being plastic or exposed lead most likely and not something checked real hard for QC. The die that made the bullet is. Ogive won't move around near as much. Why do you feel that the ogive is so different, bullet to bullet but the tip wouldn't be? I used the OAL gauge - got 4 of the same readings for where the ogive is meeting the lands on my rifle. I then take a fired case, make sure the stem is leaving the bullet seated REAL long and just keep working it down till the seated bullet, measured from the base to the ogive is the same as the readings I took with the OAL gauge. I start at the lands and fire several groups of various charge weights to find the one that gives the best. Then I work with seating depth if I feel there's more accuracy to be had. The nice thing about starting at the lands is if I want to play with seating depth - there's only one direction to worry about. Farther off. That helps, thanks. So do you actually use the stem (touching the tip) to seat your bullet further, personally? Some now have me thinking I should just pull the stem right out and let the inside of the die seat it.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3 |
C'mon man! The die body does not seat the bullet. The stem does. But it should not push on the tip of the bullet. The cup on the end of the seating stem pushes on the bullet ogive. I damn near broke my keyboard before I realized I was typing so hard. 
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Bullets:
7-08: 120 NBT and 140 AB
243: 95 NBT
17 Rem: 25 Berger Match Target & 25 Hornady HP
223: Haven't decided. Mostly for plinking/training, something cheap. I us the same nosler bullets you use as well as others. If you measure just the bullets length with your comparator and assuming your caliper is not fubar, you will see how consistent they are. Then, if your batch of 50 comes out really inconsistent, you know it's not the bullet and you need to check other things...your necks might need annealing. All your brass been fired the same number of times? Have they ever been annealed? "Springiness" of your brass might cause seating depth inconsistencies.
Last edited by CLB; 12/27/14.
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C'mon man! The die body does not seat the bullet. The stem does. But it should not push on the tip of the bullet. The cup on the end of the seating stem pushes on the bullet ogive. I damn near broke my keyboard before I realized I was typing so hard. Others in here are saying the stem shouldn't even touch the bullet tip. Pull the stem of a 17 Rem RCBS die and then tell me it pushes on the ogive.
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
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I don't know how the die could seat a bullet without the seating stem and the knob to move said stem up and down - tho I've replaced mine with a micrometer.
Me
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Campfire Regular
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Bullets:
7-08: 120 NBT and 140 AB
243: 95 NBT
17 Rem: 25 Berger Match Target & 25 Hornady HP
223: Haven't decided. Mostly for plinking/training, something cheap. I us the same nosler bullets you use as well as others. If you measure just the bullets length with your comparator and assuming your caliper is not fubar, you will see how consistent they are. Then, if your batch of 50 comes out really inconsistent, you know it's not the bullet and you need to check other things...your necks might need annealing. All your brass been fired the same number of times? Have they ever been annealed? "Springiness" of your brass might cause seating depth inconsistencies. Not annealed yet. All are 1-2 fired.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
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I don't have a 17 on hand to examine. The tip of the bullet is not where you want to push though.
Be careful, I'm not saying seating stems push on the ogive at the same spot where a measurement tool touches.
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Campfire Ranger
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C'mon man! The die body does not seat the bullet. The stem does. But it should not push on the tip of the bullet. The cup on the end of the seating stem pushes on the bullet ogive. I damn near broke my keyboard before I realized I was typing so hard. Sell all of your reloading gear, buy 2 cases of Corlokts and forget about it.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39,117 Likes: 23
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
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I think we need to reset basics.
Define for us - what you think the ogive is.
Me
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Note how the seating apparatus is not pushing on the tip: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_images/catalog19938/pages/images/Seater_Alignment.jpg) Pic borrowed from Forster.
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Responding to no one in particular but just an observation. A week ago it rained 2.5" during the day, so I had a good inside day. I measured a box of 30 cal, 165 gr. Accubonds and the base to ogive variance was about .003" over 50 bullets. The same test on 165 TTSXs showed a variance of .012" over 50 bullets.
Last edited by logger; 12/27/14. Reason: Had tip instead of ogive.
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Proves how inconsistent tips can be!
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I think we need to reset basics.
Define for us - what you think the ogive is. No need to. I understand what the ogive is. I've got two manuals in front of me right now too since a couple posts in here have me wondering if they misspoke or if I'm missing something.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Can you see in the illustration above how the seating stem doesn't push on the end (tip) of the bullet?
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Can you see in the illustration above how the seating stem doesn't push on the end (tip) of the bullet? Yes, and I do agree in most instances...most, not all.
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