Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 257 Roberts Ackley Improved - Worth the effort?

I built a .257 AI on a Mexican Mauser action with a Krieger barrel and a Rimrock stock about 15 years ago. It is one of my very favorite rifles. Except for one quirk, I cannot honestly say that it is significantly better than if I had just had it chambered for the factory cartridge.

This rifle is a little weird in that I get AI velocities with hand loading data for the factory cartridge. These loads are almost always in the lower end of the range shown in the loading manuals. My gunsmith and I have never been able to figure out why this happens, but it does. My grandson has a very nice Remington Model 7 chambered in .257 Roberts. I bought this rife from Karnis here on the campfire after he had reworked it. My rifle gets 100-150 fps more with the same powder charges and bullets.

All of this makes me scratch my head and wonder why I don't just buy factory rifles and shoot them and leave the custom builds and wildcats for others. Then I would have more time for crossword puzzles and reading the longer threads here on the campfire.

Hi John,

Karen and I walk about two miles every day, rain or shine.

As far as hunting and shooting, that's pretty much a dream of many past years. I injured my right shoulder while dragging out a Montana antelope for Karen. The surgeons did what the could, but the result is a very weak arm and a shoulder that cannot stand recoil of almost any sort.

I have not chased a further shoulder/arm repair because I have lots of other body parts that are frigged up from horse wrecks and such. And I live so far from any decent hunting that it just isn't worth the effort ... no complaint, just fact.

Hey, my friend, I have lived a hunting and shooting life that was most extraordinary. And it's fine that it has stopped.

Today, I spend lots of time teaching and I never knew that I had that ability. I find that part of my life to be incredibly rewarding. Also, I have lots of e-mails, PMs and such with hunting/handloading questions. It's fun keeping my hand in the gunny world by helping others.

And my blog has taken off beyond all possible expectations. Interestingly, there is a large following that comes from 24HCF folks.

So, my friend, life is good and we're enjoying every single second of it.

All the best,

Steve

PS. I have a blog that will be posted probably next week. It's entitled, "The Story of Stowie." It's one of my favorite writings and you might enjoy it.

My 257 Ack loves the Nosler 100 gr Partition with IMR 4831 . You will like it other than forming brass. My 257 Ack built on a LH Sako action

Wildcats and improved cartridges are never worth the effort really but we are not a practical bunch are we.
But think about this. You gain valuable knowledge about things such as bullet seating and powder burn rates and just overall shooting/loading practices. If you want it for a gain over somthing the factory has to offer it just won't happen. Everything is pretty much covered. I think everyone should play around with a wildcat it gives us somthing to do the other 11 months of the year...

I have always wanted a 6mm-06, but I have a mod. 70 25-06 so why bother I decided. When I got it I wanted a deer/ant. rifle that shot as flat as my 77V Swift, It's damn close, but not a Swift!-Muddy

What I also like is finding a suitable .22-.250 rifle and rebarreling that to .250 Savage. There are lots of the former available, and almost none of the latter...

jim

There are many incredibly valuable things we learn when we work with wildcat cartridges. Loading with no data, or questionable data, is part of it. Also, learning the minut1ae of determining the very beginning of pressure signs and a zillion other aspects of load development.

BUT THE MOST valuable thing we learn from wildcats is to approach EVERY loading project, even if it is for the common .30-'06, as if it was a wildcat.

When you've gotten to that point, when you use the loading data as a rough guide instead of Gospel ... you have become not only an accomplished handloader, but a safe one.

Blessings,

Steve

Well stated, Steve. Complacency, when it bites, bites hard. Have a Happy New Year.
Mike

For a long time the .257 AI was my one and only centerfire, a Pre 64 Model 70. I found it on consignment at a local gunshop in southern MO when I was 15 yo. I knew that it had been re-barreled but the owner had no idea with what..


I had been saving my fur money for a Remington 700 in 25-06 but when I found this for less I bought it. It came with a set of dies but I did not have my own press at that time. My girlfriends dad had one and when I showed interest he began teaching me to reload. I simply fireformed factory loads that first season.

By the time my first spring with this rifle rolled around the GF was ancient history and I had enough money to buy my own press. My fireforming days were over, I had a ton of brass formed from shooting everything that walked, hopped, flew, or crawled.. The rifle simply amazed me everytime I pulled the trigger. I figured it would pretty much be a laser beam with fireformed loads.. I was disappointed when I could not tell a difference...

I didn't let it get me down though! I was determined to use IMR-4831 and the Speer 100gr BT Spitzer because both were cheap and readily available where I lived...Not to mention I was broke and liked to shoot a lot...!

Turned out, the load was accurate enough that I could stand my cases with cracked necks on a stump at 100yds and shoot a perfect hole through them without touching an edge. My buddies were always amazed and I developed quite the reputation because of those stunts.

In all honesty it wasn't that hard with a good rest and the 4x12 power scope I had. The rifle was simply more accurate than everybody's rifle, that's all....

I had no idea how fast it shot but I thought it was close enough to the 25-06 that I no longer needed that Rem 700. While it was rough on fur I didn't care, I always knew I could put up enough fur with my traps.....

25yrs later, I figure it has killed about as many deer as blue tounge, but I truly have no idea how many rounds I have put through it or how many heartbeats it has stopped. A peek at the shank may give you an idea if you know what your looking at. Hint, it used to say 257 Rob Ack Imp..! I believe it was initially chambered for 257 Roberts but re-chambered for AI some time before I got it.. I've set it back twice since then and the evidence of "Rob" is all but gone...


It's safe to say that it has been shot a helluva lot, and then some!

Last year I let the boy re-finish the stock for his freshman woodshop project. Considering the condition it was currently in, he couldn't hurt it. He got a B but I think it turned out ok. I told him the shop teacher was probably just jealous because he didn't own a Pre 64 257 AI.....He laughed! You can still tell it's been carried some...........


So, is the AI worth it? To me it is! After all these years reloading, I still hate trimming brass and the extra velocity is always extra icing on the cake! Lastly for me there's the nostalgia..After all, it's the rifle that started me down the road to "loony-ville"...

X-VERMINATOR

I had a .220 Swift that gave crazy velocities. Also blew primers right left and sideways with book starting loads. Finally chronographed some. Starting loads were about 200 fps faster than the max loads were supposed to be.

I never expected IMR 4831 to be the solution for a Swift but it worked. I managed to get to the max load of 44 grains under a 55 grain ballistic tip. Something in the quarter inch range at 200 yards ... I was knocking consecutive push pins through the target at that distance.

My best guess is that barrel was way, way, tight.

Garth Kendig, Leupold's Range Master, has perhaps the slowest danged .25-'06 on the planet. Personally, I'd screw off the barrel and use it for a freakin' tomato stake ... but, he loves it.

My Pac-Nor gain-twist (11-to-9') was a total mistake, but Chris wanted to see how it shot. So, I put it on a CPR Custom that was dicked ... the barrel is the exact opposite of Garth's. It thinks it's a .257 Weatherby with slightly-hottish .25'06 loads of RL-22.

Quarter-bores are fascinating.

I once stated in print that ALL barrels are FEMALE. Man, did the ladies have a problem with that. The statement stands.

Blessings,

Steve

My present .25-06 is like that. It's a custom rifle on a VZ-24 action, with the action work and barrel done by P.O. Ackley's shop. The guy who had it made was an Air Force major stationed in Germany, who then had the barreled action stocked over there. The barrel's 26" long and gets around 3450 fps with 100's and over 3300 with 115's, using published loading data, with zero signs of excessive pressure.

Words of wisdom. When we hand load everyrifle/cartridge is a wildcat. There'd be a lot fewer mysteries in developing loads for rifles if we looked at this way.

I got a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved reamer and 4 CM Lothar Walther light varmint barrels from Brownells in 2002.
I built up 4 rifles on 98 Mauser actions, one for myself, and 3 for the guys I hunt with. I got them sets of dies.

The barrels were really too heavy for deer hunting, but we tried.
They were the most accurate rifles we had ever owned.
None of us had got less than 1/2" 5 shots a 100 yards before then. 3600 fps with 75 gr Vmax seemed the best.

In 2012 I used the reamer a 5th time, on a Shilen select match stainless #3 taper on an 1885 action.
I was getting 0.9 moa average. This was no target gun, but light weight. I shot 4 mule deer with it in 2012 between 50 and 400 yards with 115 gr Nos Bal tip 3050 fps. I could not ask for a better deer cartridge out to 400 yards.

After all this screwing around with forming an Ackley shoulder, this year I bought a 257 Roberts reamer and a 25-06 reamer.
Hopefully I have kicked the Ackley habit.

I built myself a 6mm-06 and now use it more than my 257 Ack or 25-06 . 6mm-06 try it , because you will like it

Clark it won't be easy to kick that 257AI MONKEY OFF YOUR BACK. powdr

You think i'm going to Ackley my 257, your crazy!

That's a gorgeous rfle. Details?

I wound up with a Kimber select in .257. It will stay a standard .257.

One guy I deer hunted with about 20 years ago had a custom .257AI, and he was proud of telling people his gun had an "Ackley Improvement". I asked him what loads he was using, and he replied, "Winchester"

I wouldn't turn down a good .257AI if one came my way, but I would not go out of my way to build one.

A good .257AI has not come my way but a 257 Roberts LT (long throat) did and it has been interesting to compare velocity and accuracy results with my twin standard-throated Bob's.

I've had quite a few standard .257's over the years, which haven't always been standard, so have done some testing with longer throats and various barrel lengths. One was a red-pad Ruger No. 1B with a VERY long throat and, of course, a 26" barrel. It wouldn't shoot any lead-cored bullet under 115 grains very well, but was very accurate with 115 Ballistic Tips at 3100 fps. And no, I wasn't pushing them very hard, in fact stopped there only because that's where my calculations suggested a long-seated .257 could safely go.