|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065 |
marketing tends to encourage more complex or irrational products and the price points rises concurrently--probably a coincidence
for hunting, the genius of a 12oz scope with a readily visible crosshair reticle just isn't an industry profit center...
Defend the Constitution
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438 |
I don't think the Artemis 2100 was a marketing scope. It was built to be a tough SOB, do anything, low light uberwackenhuntinsight. The steel tube is for when chit really hits the fan, you can convert to pipebomb, billy club, jack handle, cheater-bar; really just about anything tubular!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,667 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,667 Likes: 5 |
Why didn't you answer the questions?
How many animals have you killed in the last year with both FFP and SFP scopes? Types?
How many rounds and under what conditions have you shot in the last year with both FFP and SFP scopes?
....Don't think I'd be trying to interject "reality", when it is a reality that I'd never experienced....
And there it is. I know that SFP works fine for what I do, but also that there are individuals with more and/or different experience who swear by FFP. That's The tendency of CC that demonstrates he is FOS; he can't make that distinction and therefore speaks as universal what is particular to him and his (VERY) limited experience. Not to mention he doesn't know the difference between your & you're or board & bored but that's for another discussion...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438 |
Hey, if you want to sale your SFP scope, have at it.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
While some of this is sort of silly I will go on record as saying FFP sucks with every available reticle. Not saying some one might not come up with a viable FFP reticle but I sure have not seen one. Of course that is like just my opinion and such. John, Swaro made a good duplex for their PH series that was nice and very useable in a FFP....but of course they don't make the scope anymore either.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,667
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,667 |
notice how the usual suspects pipe in and say oh you only shoot coyotes. without really a clue of what I do hunt, because I don't feel the need to brag about it to anyone. They are also the same ones who attack and accuse me of not knowing anything. whats funnier is they live in eastern states where heck it may not even be legal to hunt with a centerfire! Instead of admitting YES FFP does have some draw backs but in this case it worked better for me. I don't think they even watched the video I posted where the FFP reticle nearly washes out, good luck seeing that in low light!!! or even less than ideal light. if your reticle is a simple one that is basically a duplex and its a FFP reticle all this discussion really doesn't apply to your application. Thats because there aren't really any features your need to use on a basic reticle. a duplex reticle isn't that much different if its FFP or SFP.
Again I state I did not say ALL FFP scopes sucks. I just said ones typically used in a hunting application do. If you have a mega power scope that is 8x32 or something like that, YES get a FFP reticle in that scope, why because there is a high likelyhood of needing to turn that scope down. every application is different. but in a hunting application your going want SFP I stand by that. The fact that you don't post about your hunts leads folks, definitely me, to question your field time with something. Bragging or not, I (we) don't know you and only know what you post. Maybe answer the questions asked and folks will quit busting your balls. Until then your opinion will be treated as talking out your ass from lack of experience. Notice how much less grief that folks whom post about their shooting/hunting get for similar comments as you made. Yep, I live in state where centerfire rifle use is very restricted. But, I got a tip for you, I don't hunt just in my resident state. I've killed big game in 3 states that border UT this year. I do admit that compared to many this is a paltry amount of experience. Then you have the guy that was driving force behind the design of the scope and reticle you have such a problem with. His bona fides are quite well respected in regards to both hunting and shooting long range. I'd hazard a guess that he has more and a wider breadth of experience than you... Yet, you think you can unequivocally claim FFP to be less effective for hunting than SFP. Heck, one of the scopes in the OP on one rifle has accounted for 16 big game animals in 2 years. Have you killed 1/4 of that amount of big game in the past two years with your scope of choice? That is why I can't agree completely with your version of a "dose of reality".
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438 |
Can't a guy get a brake? It's two ruff aound hear sometimes.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,909 Likes: 3 |
Jordan's photo shows those who are objective the crosshair in fact does get larger as power is increased. Otherwise we could see the small hash marks on low setting.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,550 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,550 Likes: 7 |
Right, but RD is correct. The entire image, including the reticle, gets larger with magnification. The subtension, or the amount of the image that the reticle covers, remains constant at all magnifications.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,117 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,117 Likes: 3 |
notice how the usual suspects pipe in and say oh you only shoot coyotes. without really a clue of what I do hunt, because I don't feel the need to brag about it to anyone. They are also the same ones who attack and accuse me of not knowing anything. whats funnier is they live in eastern states where heck it may not even be legal to hunt with a centerfire! Instead of admitting YES FFP does have some draw backs but in this case it worked better for me. I don't think they even watched the video I posted where the FFP reticle nearly washes out, good luck seeing that in low light!!! or even less than ideal light. if your reticle is a simple one that is basically a duplex and its a FFP reticle all this discussion really doesn't apply to your application. Thats because there aren't really any features your need to use on a basic reticle. a duplex reticle isn't that much different if its FFP or SFP.
Again I state I did not say ALL FFP scopes sucks. I just said ones typically used in a hunting application do. If you have a mega power scope that is 8x32 or something like that, YES get a FFP reticle in that scope, why because there is a high likelyhood of needing to turn that scope down. every application is different. but in a hunting application your going want SFP I stand by that. The fact that you don't post about your hunts leads folks, definitely me, to question your field time with something. Bragging or not, I (we) don't know you and only know what you post. Maybe answer the questions asked and folks will quit busting your balls. Until then your opinion will be treated as talking out your ass from lack of experience. Notice how much less grief that folks whom post about their shooting/hunting get for similar comments as you made. Yep, I live in state where centerfire rifle use is very restricted. But, I got a tip for you, I don't hunt just in my resident state. I've killed big game in 3 states that border UT this year. I do admit that compared to many this is a paltry amount of experience. Then you have the guy that was driving force behind the design of the scope and reticle you have such a problem with. His bona fides are quite well respected in regards to both hunting and shooting long range. I'd hazard a guess that he has more and a wider breadth of experience than you... Yet, you think you can unequivocally claim FFP to be less effective for hunting than SFP. Heck, one of the scopes in the OP on one rifle has accounted for 16 big game animals in 2 years. Have you killed 1/4 of that amount of big game in the past two years with your scope of choice? That is why I can't agree completely with your version of a "dose of reality". pointer yes you are one of the usual suspects. why is this about me and what I do and don't know RATHER THAN THE MERITS OF WHAT I SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good lord dude. now its about me knowing nothing because I don't post pictures bragging about how great I am. I don't need accolades from people around here. I don't need acceptance. so no I am not posting any pictures thats personal to me and my friends. frankly one could kill 16 big game animals with open sites. people want to respond to this without even actually reading what I have said about FFP or not. for the last freaking time FFP has a place in the optics world, YES is does. but the problem is the video I showed and even more pictures that jordan from alberta posted albeit unwittingly further illustrate my point. (btw jordan from alberta, take me coyote hunting up there calling canada is a dream of mine) If jordan takes that pic with the trees instead of the sky in the background you can't even see the reticle at all! Look no doubt occasionally I like to kick the ant pile around here. yeah I like some drama, but as part of that I am kinda also looking to be proven wrong if it can be done. my views are subject to change based on reason, experience, and logic. but thats not what I see from those advocating FFP on HUNTING scopes. If we all met even ole formido we would probably shake hands and laugh, its all good. happy holidays
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,194 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,194 Likes: 8 |
why is this about me and what I do and don't know RATHER THAN THE MERITS OF WHAT I SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On a site like this there are a lot of people who talk out their ass. The only way for a person to pull the nuggets from the chaff is to be able to read sign. So like it or not, it is about you, or rather your credibility as evidenced by what you post here. Some have lots of credibility by virtue of what they post, others not so much. That's pretty much how it works.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,550 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,550 Likes: 7 |
That scope is not meant to be a 100% dedicated short-to-medium range, twilight, bush scope. The reticle was not designed with that solely in mind. It was designed to do LR very well, and short-range, twilight shooting good enough. Which it does. Those pics were taken at twilight, and you can still see the reticle against the trees plenty good enough to decisively arrange POI.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,550 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,550 Likes: 7 |
I think the saying goes- "always consider the source"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
40 meter shot made with said scope set at 3X.....how did I ever pull that off? Maybe I just aimed down the barrel...
Luck....is the residue of design...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,742
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,742 |
so what about FFP with illumination? how does that suck as a hunting scope
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered." ― George Orwell, 1984
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
40 meter shot made with said scope set at 3X.....how did I ever pull that off? Maybe I just aimed down the barrel... I thought only Schidt and Bendover scopes were worth owning?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,657 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,657 Likes: 5 |
Jesus dude - pick a handle and stick with it.
WWP53D
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,194 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,194 Likes: 8 |
I thought only Take a knee said stupid schit like that.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
I thought only Take a knee said stupid schit like that. Impossible, Rick killed him.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,194 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,194 Likes: 8 |
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
654 members (12344mag, 06hunter59, 16gage, 10gaugemag, 160user, 12savage, 62 invisible),
2,901
guests, and
1,322
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,643
Posts18,512,351
Members74,010
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|