Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Scope Tracking Tests...

Jason

Thank you and I would say your assessment sounds accurate.

dave

I've actually done that several times and may agree with you except.....my comparisons with NF have been with two different VX6's, a 2-12x42 and a 3-19x44. If you were to do that same thing you would find the VX6 to be the most user friendly variable ever made. It's that good.

I checked the parallax both times and it was not the issue. Also once the scope was fixed and I shot it again the p.o.i. problem between powers was eliminated.

Dave,

I have a Leupo story. Have only shared it with one or two other people here via PM. I thought you'd get a kick out of it...

Jason


Old PM, with some edits:


I've had my share of experiences with Leupo C/S. I live near their facility so I hand deliver my returns. Had two scopes with smeared lenses, internally. It took 4x before they got it right. From "America's Optics Authority"! My buds were shocked that it took that many tries to clean the internal lens surfaces. I stood in the Leupold lobby with my flashlight showing one tech after another how the lenses were cloudy. Amazing really, but the lack of detail was a wake-up. I never found out the reason for it. Maybe contaminated gas, chamber, or lines? Still, someone should have caught that as a QC item right?! I could see it getting missed once, maybe twice. But 4 trips to get it fixed!!!

Also had a VX2 with the new fast focus eye-piece... but the entire ocular spun when I put the rifle on its side with BC caps. C/S dragged their feet (head of C/S and lead designer were on a trip), then they said that the lead project engineer admitted that it was a design flaw. The entire ocular wobbled too and didn't inspire confidence. No jam nut on the new VX2. Leupo more than made up for my time/expense on that scope so I can't complain too much.

I've taken back 3-9x Leupos for wandering zero for some buds. One sold a rifle before he found out it was the scope! Leupo couldn't make that scope hold zero so they offered a new replacement.

Another good story... one of my old shooting buds introduced me to his friend that had just gotten a job offer at Leupo as a design engineer. One day at the range we talked about different scopes and ideas for new models. Nice fella. He was really excited to work at Leupold and we discussed some things like a true-1x tac scope, and other tacti-cool snipery stuff and .mil contracts.

Next time we met at the range, he had a different demeanor. He was like a beaten dog. He said, "The old man runs the show there. They said they don't give a fuuk what people want. Don't like what we have, go somewhere else was their motto." I didn't ask who the "old man" was but he said it was an uphill battle to get new ideas going.

He had some proto-types for us to play with that were well before production so that was fun but the bad moral and resistance to forward thinking was disappointing. Now, whenever I visit their facility I take note of the attitudes and demeanor of their employees as they leave just for fun. I get there in the late afternoon and see a bunch of people leaving for the day. Vast majority look sad, depressed or angry. Now, I could be reading into it more than I should, or there is something I don't know about... maybe they get cavity searched upon exit?

Leupo has always taken care of my complaints but sometimes with resistance and I've had to escalate. I have dealt with one of their lead techs many times. And even bought a rifle from his boss. There's some good people at Leupo. But there are absolute jerks there too... just like anyplace.

Companies change; products morph. Happens in all industries. Formerly great companies that produced fantastic outdoor products get sold, change management and usually the product ends up not for the "better".

I can think of Eddie Bauer, Abercrombie, Winchester,some bullet makers....others as well.

Why should Leupold be any different?This is nothing new. If so many people notice Leupold failures,there should be something to it.Not everybody is an idiot....I hear it from accomplished match and BR shooters, too,and have for years.

It's nothing "new"...I was breaking Leupold variables back in the early 90's.Adjustments have always been less than stellar for tracking.The scope that may last 20 years on a 243 or 270,may crap after 200-300 on a 300 or 375. ( I said "might")..the reason I hunted with fixed powers on rifles like that.

Americans love cheap shidt with great warranties.Makers build to a price point.That price point might get a guy the durability he wants but if he's a really active shooter, it might not.And the more he shoots the greater the likelihood he will encounter scope problems. It's where economics runs squarely into round count.

Not much mystery about it.

I think you are right, but I don't think its common knowledge.

Funny thing around here, since Leupold is local... blind faith was extremely strong. Over just the past few years its like Leupold got the rug yanked out from under them. Many it seems have gone to Vortex for the "cheap shidt with great warranties". Everyone and their brother is a Vortex fan now.

Its nice to hear a report of whats going on at home!

It's a real shame that more and more companies are becoming interested in mass production at the expense of quality. I believe it's becoming the norm in any industry.

Spoke with Matt Bettersworth of HCR yesterday for a bit. He reiterated that in their experience, Leupold remains a disappointment.

He also stated that they've had issues with the Zeiss HD5 series. As with Leupold, HCR will no longer offer/sell them.

On the bright side, he said they've been extremely pleased with the Nightforce SHV line.

William, do they see many meoopta's by any chance? I plan on spending a little time with R. Seipp, the big cheese w/Meopota, at DSC next week.

Johnny,

That I don't know. Matt and Dave will be at DSC, you might want to swing by their both and chew the fat for a bit.

It's not their daddy's Leupold. I think that has something to do with it. Me? I bought a Vortex this past summer and stuck it on my main hunting rifle just to see what the fuss was all about. The masses can keep their Vortex scopes. I won't be purchasing another.

No Vortices for me either.

Well then jackass, post my DD214 for everybody to see... You always like to play like you're the cool kid on the block and in the "Know"... Post it or show what a jackass you really are... Fact is you've never seen it, ever had a copy of it or have a clue about what I do on a regular basis... You simply ran your cock holster on hearsay and second hand info... Plain and simple...

You sure are quick to post chit like you've BTDT and come off as some badass Gunfighter... Regale us with your "Gunfighter" experiences... I mean the real deal stuff... Not the John Woo tuck and rolls in some prairie in Cody, hammering clay pigeons with your over priced chit wares or shooting paper targets that don't shoot back... Thats all kinda cute and stuff but lets hear the good stuff... Like how you used to kick doors in Iraq... Clear buildings in Baghdad... Or maybe of your countless tours in Afghanistan... Pulling patrols in the Helmand Province and the multiple engagements there with the Taliban... Perhaps serving High Risk warrants with the USMS SRT or your skirmishes along the Border with the Cartels and ISIS... Gunfighter my ass... When was the last time you ever had to fire a shot in anger... Better yet, when have you EVER fired a shot in anger you clueless f-u-ck... Just because you may rub shoulders with a Gunfighter here and there don't make you one, jackass...


I've explained my position on this but obviously you ARE as dumb as you look or just too drunk to let it soak in... More than likely both... My view point has nothing to do with what I posted... It was simply videos of somebody doing tracking tests on some of the major scope brands... I had no hidden agenda or hate for any of the brands tested... A person can take what they want from the videos... It matters none to me...


I've also explained this so reread the above... I stick by MY explanation for adjusting MY scopes mil value in MY balistic calculator to compensate for the way MY March tracks...


So now you're a self proclaimed "Big Boy"... That's comical... Because you sell over priced junk to people, and give them the False Bravado that they are capable of doing chit afield that is out of their paygrade does not make you a Big Boy... Best ice down that muscle you pulled trying to pat yourself on the back...


Maybe you take off that goofy ballcap you wear and your fivehead doubles as a crystal ball... I'd hope you would know more than all of us here... After all isn't that how you make a living for f-u-cksakes...

1/3 MOA is close but does not equate to .1 Mil... Close but not equal... Considering your scope choice I guess close would have to work...

It has to do with more the construction of the turret than the adjustment value but since its been side stepped numerous times, we'll let that speak for itself...



In all reality it should retain its zero... If it didn't I'd look for a new optic... YMMV...

My point was more about the rings and bases being the cause for a dropped scope losing zero. The scope by itself being knocked around should be fine.

Gotcha.... Never understood why a guy with a $2500 rig and a $1500+ optic would choose to skimp on the mounting apparatus... I see it quite often...

EHG,

Don't you know that every bad "A" gunslinger from top units are "gun guys" and know exactly why and how their gear came to be.....




In other news.....


Have been beating on the NF ATACR 4-16x F1 and it is a home run. Only have around a case or two of rounds on it.... grin. But it has maintained it's original zero after a couple few dozen accidents that would give most an aneurism. Has tracked perfectly with not one shot being off call. I'll get a few thousand more in the next month.....

I wouldn't call Seekins Rings and a picatinny rail "skimping"

Do you think Leupold Dual Dovetails are a poor design?






I would never think that any mounting system can hold a scope's zero if it is knocked hard on rocks or the ground.

You really ought to show up to the Steel Safari, Sniper's Hide Cup, or any of a number of Precision Matches with that rig. I would think that with equipment like that, you couldn't be beaten.