Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The BULLSHEET continues.............

"To illustrate the value these accuracy improvement recommendations can have, the following example says it all: <BR>Steve Bush is a Special Forces sniper and also a long-range and Palma competitor. He sent us his .308 chambered competition rifle for accurizing as he could only get groups at 300 yards. Arnold Arms performed the accuracy steps outlined above. Steve phoned us to report after getting his rifle back that, he now was getting "one ragged hole with 5 shot groups at 600 yards" and using Palma peep sights! That's better shooting than most of us can do using a scope, but it illustrates vividly what results are possible after accurizing work is performed on a rifle!" <P><BR>(That is a direct quote,from their website. I'm sure everyone knows who)........

I don't suppose they posted a contact number for this "special forces sniper" so this information could be verified, do you? Anyone check the last Palma results to see if this person really exists and what his groups were at the competition? <P>Sure would like to verify all this BS they are posting as fact so I can decide if I should send my rifle off for a 2 year vacation! LOL- sheister

"B.S. ... Barbara Streisand," as Limbaugh would say. One ragged hole at 600 yards through open sights [img]images/icons/crazy.gif" border="0[/img] ... I guess this bunch thinks they can hook the business of some certifiable dolts with this claim. Perhaps they are going for the gullible demographic because the rest of us are too smart to allow them to work on our rifles.<P>I read elsewhere at this forum where someone was purportedly shooting prarie dogs from a "mile away"... I think the 600-yard-peep- sighted-one-hole-group belongs in the same slop jar with that claim.<P>Wizard

I don't know anything about the false claims or true claims that they have made. I don't know about all this competitive shooting stuff either. I cannot comment on any of that information.<P>They(Arnold Arms) made my 375HH shoot better then I ever dreamed it would. I have no complaints with them or their work. I have a friend who has just had his 375HH rifle accuraized by them as well and it took just over 3 months. His shoots as nice as mine does so I know of two rifles that were made fantastic by them.<P>My needs are not the same as these sniper, bench rest, super one hole 1000 yard group dudes, but I think the value for the dollar I got from them was good, and the turnaround was fair IMO. <P>If they are FOS and claim a lot of other things they did not, or cannot do, that is for you folks to sort out here. Just so you have some tiny little bit of balance to hear from at least one guy who knows of two rifles that they tuned to shoot excellent.jj

JJ,<P>I understand and respect,what you have to say. BUT,a $900 barrel installation($1000 with a Douglas blank)and $1600 for that same barrel,but put in a new stock,smells of something(my opinion).....<P><BR><A HREF="http://www.arnoldarms.com/new1.html" TARGET=_blank>SUPER SPECIAL!!</A>

Wizard:<P>As far as I know the current witness verified record for a dead prarie dog( it took 3 shots to walk it in) is just over 3100 yards, with several killed in the mile and a half range. So you may call it slop jar, but I wouldn't like those guys shooting at me. <P>As far as a ragged hole at 600 yards, that sounds like a little hyperbole to me, but then again, if the current 5 shot record at 1000 is just under 1.6 inches and your back that down to 600 it is not beyond the realm of possibility. Just might be a large ragged hole. I have had no dealings with Arnold Arms but what I read about them is all good.

okay,<BR>let's send off my 22LR and see if they can make it kill prarie dogs at 1 mile...<BR>that would convince all of you...

600? 5 shot ragged hole? A peep sight? What's his front post, a needle?

must be that new photon from sight I've heard so much about, only 1 molecule wide..

If you're going to lie, lie big!

I have a home-built, scoped .375 H&H which will place bullets at 1 1/2" in 100 yards (when I have a good day) and will cycle cartridges with the best of them. This will kill about anything in the universe, unless there are things out there that I don't know about. As far as Arnold Arms goes, most of what I have read about them has been negative. JJ Hack's post is the first I have read in a positive vein. Let it be known that I really don't need their expertise or BS and couldn't afford it anyway. Yet, if I were ever in the position where I needed a rifle to shoot better than that which my .375 shoots and had the money to pay for it, I definitely wouldn't send it to them.

After all the horrible stories I have heard about Arnold Arms I wouldn't send the jokers my bb-gun. EVERYONE (including JJ) that I know that were happy with their work all had work done more then 2 years ago. They seem to of been in some very bad financial problems. I can refer you to guys that had to FIGHT to get their guns back after a year and a half etc... Quality control went down the tubes.<P>In my opinion they are to be avoided at all costs. I know we all have differant oppinions but do not send your gun to AA. Bad bad things have happened to them and this is not the same company that used to do fine work as witnessed by JJ's great shooting 375 H&H.<P>Good Luck (and you WILL need it) to any who hand your firearm over to them. You might even get it back in a year or two. (grin) <P>There was a long drawn out fight on the rifles board at shooters which included posts from the President of AA. He was quite the snotty arrogant A*hole. I would not pay that clown a nickle to work on any of my guns.<P>There are more pleasant ways to be fleeced today then by a A*hole like him.<P>Tex

If It Flies...<P>I was probably unfair to dispute the over one mile prarie dog kill without first understanding the concept of what was being attempted.<P>If the idea is to lob bullets into a hill with a few dogs standing in close proximity to each other in hopes of nailing one, I can see that.<P>However, I'm unable to understand just how someone could pick out a target as small as a prarie dog at a mile and a half away, (3100 yards is getting close to two miles), and actually connect the shot as a matter of purpose rather than accident or just pure dumb luck. <P>I'll grant that the *hill* could be targeted and hit at these ranges, (perhaps even a particular section of the hill). I'll concede that it is possible to "walk" a bullet toward the area on a hill where a prarie dog is standing. But if the bullet just happens to land on the dog and the shooter fails to pay homage (a lot of homage!) to Lady Luck for his good fortune, he's probably smoking something in addition to that hapless prarie dog.<P>As I said, I didn't understand the context of your comment, and I opined prematurely. I hereby apologize, and I'll try to do better next time.<P>Wizard

I like how Paul said it. Sums it up about right. ~~~Suluuq

I knew a guy named Steve Bush when I was in Special Forces--I pulled CQ for him on Christmas Day one year so he could open presents with his kids. I wonder if it's the same guy? Also, my father is a Palma shooter, and he's made some incredibly small groups with irons and off of a bench on his range at 300 and 700 yards. But one ragged hole at 600? I guess it could happen, but I think I'd have to see it done. Okie John.

I'm not sure about 1 hole at 600 but have seen some excellent shooting with aperature sights on black powder cartridge rifles . 500 meters is about 560 yds and a friend using an original Rem Rolling Block with a 20 some year old barrel that has shot thousands of roundsand home made sights has taken 10 straight rams from a modified prone with cross sticks.His loads are volume measured and he uses home cast lead at less than 1200 fps. <BR>Another shooter I know rings a buffalo silouette at somewhere s over 1200 yds with boring consistancy. <BR>"Peep" sights are amazingly accurate after practice . Given an accurized high power and a solid bench it just might have happened.<BR>As to the front sight unless banned by rules he just may be using an aperature here as well. Unless you have tried these sights you would not believe the crisp "picture " you get. When shooting at a round target the effect is a circle inside a circle inside a circle. You do not even think about centering them as your "eye" does it automatically.

Murf,<P>I very much savvy iron sights and a specific aperature,that is geared towards a specific target. HOWEVER,sub 1/4" groups at 600yds?<P>In another tidbit,it states as FACT,a 10 shot group at 100yds,centered EXACTLY in the bullseye. Again,shot with irons,that group is in the high .1's". I may be dumb,but I am not stupid. That is a serious wagon load of sheet,and there is no other way to describe it. All my opinion,of course.......<P> [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View...p;p=51496716&Sequence=0&res=high[/img]

Oh sorry you guys didn't hear! That was a typo it was 60yds!!!LOL [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]

Big Stick, My whole accuracy package from them was 400 bucks out the door if they could use the factory barrel. After there work and testing it shot so well they did not need to replace the barrel. <P>I was getting 1.5-3" groups with all my loads and although it was good enough for "BIG" game I use it for lots of smaller antelopes and jackals in Africa as it is usually the only rifle I carry every day. When I got it back from them I could actually shoot one enlarged hole at 100 yards. To me that was worth the 400 bucks. The action is also so smooth from their work that It is probably the best "feeling" model 70 I have ever used. <P>As Texas Hunter said this was done to my rifle many many years ago before they went public. Can't say what the reason is or what they have done different since. <P>I'm not defending them<P>I'm not advertising for them<P>I'm not supporting them<P>I really don't care if they come or go because I will use John Ricks now anyway.<P>I just felt the need to speak my mind when I saw the folks piling on here. Sorry to detract from the group opinion but I really have nothing to complain about with their work. Lots of guys here, have seen my rifle and several have used my 375 to shoot both targets and game, it's a dream, I'm glad they did it,<P> I'll count myself one of the lucky one based on what I'm reading here though!jj

JJ,<P>I never considered doubting,the results you posted. That was never my intent and I never commented on your rifles specifically.<P> My comments were directed SOLELY at AA's claims,made in print,on both their catalog and website. The prices they mention,were in the same league as their claims. Pretty grandoise,in my opinion.<P>I've gone against the grain many times and will be the first to stand up for the underdog. It is a shame that AA's ethics and craftsmanship,seem to have shifted with time. They were simply given enough rope,to effectively hang themselves. THEN they chose to print the grisly scene and boast about it. Odd,if you were to ask me..........