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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
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Hart in Pennsylvania used to use poured pillars made from Bisonite, then Marine-Tex for bedding the action. Like you said, very time consuming and not something you will see on a production rifle. Sounds like some folks would like to see these new rifles with a custom bedding job, Krieger barrel and maybe throw in a Jewell trigger too for $1500.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
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As fa as I low from having had several original Bansner stocks,solid fiberglass pillars were molded into the stock,as opposed to adding them afterwards,as we do with some other designs. But each stock had to be bedded to the rifle.
Seems that has been replaced by the aluminum bedding blocks, probably to facilitate easier manufacturing on a mass basis as opposed to the older design which required individual bedding of each stock,which would be more expensive and time consuming....one of those little things we do for ourselves or paid Bansners to do for us...a "custom" touch. Not something we usually get in a production rifle.
Bob, I've had a couple Bansners and did the work on them myself. To my knowledge they never came with pillars. IMO, one of the best "pillars" to use to keep weight down is carbon arrow shafts cut, and epoxied in. Aluminum ain't needed. I have no interest in these rifles at all, I'm only interested in the stock for use on M70's... I think the Bansner for the pre-64 M70 is a great stock with its straight comb and addition of a cheekpiece. Aids in getting "into the scope" that of needs is mounted higher on a pre-64 than on a Classic. I would greatly appreciate a response from Reed as to their average painted weight.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Brad I had Bansners do the bedding....that's what they told me.But maybe they DID install the pillars in the bedding process.Since you worked on them yourself you would know. Can tell you that there were for sure pillars in mine and they were not aluminum,so maybe Clay (I think that was his name) installed them during bedding and I misunderstood what he said. In any event those screw would bottom out and that would be IT!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,755 Likes: 56 |
Greetings 24HR Campfire, Thank for the interest and recent postings in Legendary Arms Works rifles. I would like to take the opportunity to respond to the posting and some of the comments related to Legendary Arms Works and to give clarification about the company.I have posted similar information on other forums because we want to ensure that the most accurate and honest information is available to our customer base. In the spirit of full disclosure-My name is Paul Reed and I am the Chief Operating Officer for Trop Gun Shop Corporation and Legendary Arms Works. Trop Gun Shop is a retail and online firearms company and we have a manufacturing division that includes Legendary Arms Works where the 704 rifles are being built. We are the sole owners and producers of the Legendary Arms Works Model 704 bolt action rifle. A little bit of history about the company will help to clarify. The creation of Legendary Arms Works comes about through the joining of three forces in the firearms industry and is an interesting story that will help to understand the company and the people driving it. Ed Brown created the 704 bolt action around 2002 with improvements over the next few years that led ultimately to the Model 704. He produced a small number of rifles for a time period and they were of very high quality and had excellent accuracy. The development of the 704 action was novel at the time and for anyone who knows Mr. Brown would not be surprised at his design, it is an engineering accomplishment. Mr. Brown's business grew substantially and during that time the interest in high quality AR style rifle was growing at a fast pace. Ed decided to concentrate on AR rifles as well as his outstanding 1911 pistols and the bolt action production languished. In 2012, Mr. David Dunn, to whom I report, purchased Trop Gun Shop in Elizabethtown Pennsylvania. Dave has deep experience and keen interest in the firearms industry and was a consultant to The American Custom Gunmakers Guild, ATK and other organizations in the shooting sports. He has interests and knowledge in the fine gun market as well as military and tactical firearms. Trop Gun Shop dates back to 1961 and has been a mainstay in the Pennsylvania firearms business. Dave and his wife Tara, rebuilt the company both physically and financially and it includes a modern state of the art indoor shooting range, 13000 square feet of retail space and a vibrant and growing e-commerce business. Visit our Web site at: Trop Gun Shop Mark Bansner, a formally trained gunsmith with a world-class reputation under the business name of Bansner's Ultimate Rifles, has been building state-of-the-art bolt action rifles on a variety of actions for 30 years. Many of you know about or own one of Mark's rifles and his reputation as a riflesmith is first order. Approximately 20 years ago Mark purchased a synthetic stock making company, High Tech Specialties, and over the course of many years continually refined the hand laid fiberglass stock to enhance accuracy, pointability and durability. Mark used these stocks in the production of his Ultimate Rifles as well as making them available on the secondary market to customers via the High Tech Specialties Web site and through Brownells. Mark achieved a worldwide reputation for producing outstanding firearms for the hunting and shooting community. In 2013 David Dunn purchased the rights to produce and market the 704 action in its entirety from Ed Brown under Trop Gun Shop business. This purchase included all of Ed's drawing and engineering diagrams, spare parts and specialized machinery with full rights to produce and sell the 704 action and rifles based on this action. In early 2013, David also teamed up in a business agreement to purchase Bansner's Ultimate rifles and High Tech Specialties stock works from Mark. This purchased included all of Mark's business and Mark remains on the management team as President of our manufacturing division. They subsequently formed a new company, Legendary Arms Work, with a goal to produce an American made, state-of-the-art production style bolt action rifle at a competitive price point. It is our company�s view that high quality rifles can be built in America with all the features shooters seek. We feel we can move away from the current industry path of producing cheaper and cheaper injection molded, MIM or cast parts rifles in a race to the bottom. The joining of these three forces, The 704 action, Trop Gun Shop financial and manufacturing capabilities, and Mark Bansner custom firearms expertise, gave rise to Legendary Arms Works. The mission of the company is to produce a rifle of outstanding quality and accuracy that will appeal to the worldwide market at a price that every shooter can afford. Over the past year Mark and his team have been diligently enhancing and making design modifications on the 704 action to get ready for production. No detail has been left out in this time consuming and expensive process. For example Mark and his gunsmiths spent nearly two full weeks adjusting the design for the 3 positions safety to get the timing, function and feel exactly right. We also have been ramping up a manufacturing and production facility for the stocks and rifle assembly and I have overseen the development of the LAWS Web site. Our company is located in Lancaster County Pennsylvania which is truly the birthplace of American rifle making dating back to the early 1700s and The Pennsylvania Rifle a fact that is not lost on those of us dedicated to the model 704. We formally launched the new company officially in December 2014 and have had outstanding success at the Dallas Safari Club and most recently announcing it at the 2015 SHOT Show where we hosted a writer�s event at the SHOT range day. Our rifles have been used by Craig Boddington in Africa, Canada and the United States and we have become the official rifle sponsor of his television show, The Boddington Experience. In addition, we have a sponsorship relationship with Freddy Harteis, The Hollywood Hunter, and Freddy is using our rifles now on a variety of hunts. We are currently in late stage production of our three introductory models: The Closer, the Professional and The Big Five. Each of these models have a number of similarities including the M704 true controlled round feed action, a Timney trigger, stainless match grade barrels and a High Tech Specialties fiberglass stock. The rifles action has a strong similarity to a Remington 700 model with the round body to allow for easier bedding and will take 700 bottom metal. Our rifles include Weaver style scope bases on the Closer and Professional and Talley style bases on The Big Five. Complete details and descriptions as well as photographs of our rifles can be viewed at the Legendary Arms Works website: Legendary Arms Works We are now moving into a full production mode with the hope to have rifles available in the March or April timeframe. For anyone who has been involved in building a firearms manufacturing facility, you can understand the monumental tasks and amount of work plus huge financial commitments that are required to undertake such an endeavor. The rifle actions are machined from 416 stainless steel on state of the art CNC machines. Currently we are producing two action lengths, the short action 308 size, and a long action 30-06 size that will handle standard magnum rounds such as the 300 Winchester and 375 H&H magnum. Our plans and ideas are many and include a true magnum sized action and eventually left handed configured actions. For the moment we are offering a rifles in a broad and novel variety of caliber options such as the 35 Whelen, 26 Nosler, and 6.5 Creedmoor etc. but are limiting stock color and Cerakote metal finish colors to allow us to get rifles out to our customers. At some point in the future we will begin again offering custom rifles similar to what Mark offered for many years. Our rifles come with a full lifetime guarantee for the life of the rifle not the owner and an accuracy guarantee. All the pertinent details can be found at the Legendary Arms Works website. We would be pleased to answer any questions about the rifle and our production as we can but may beg for a bit of patience in us getting the rifles to the market. We waited until our production facility was well under way to announce the company to avoid the usual firearms industry new product announcement and significant time lag before availability. The rifle is truly 100 % American made, every piece of metal, spring, screw etc. is a 100% American made and we believe we have a price point that will pose a very significant challenge to our competitors. In addition we will make our Model 704 actions available to purchase to the gunsmith trade. Thank you for the opportunity to provide insight into our company and the people that are driving at and we look forward to our success. Please visit our Website for more information. Paul "Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas" NRA Patron Member I'll feign my "surprise",that it got VERY fhuqking quiet...VERY fhuqking fast. Laughing! I enjoyed "Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas"...though it should read "Dumbfhuqkus Headupassis". Just saying. Hint. Is this when/where I stand agog that you've ZERO fhuqking clue in regards to twist rate,throat geometry and COAL?!? Or might you be going FULL Secret Squirrel and about to regale the masses with your collective dumbfhuqkery summonsed via your version of "knowledge","experience" and "results"? Laughing!!! You Drooling Clueless Dumbfhuqks are a hoot! Again...PLEASE do not let the cat get your tongue,nor the couch your kchunt. You "hard charging" "visionaries" are on fhuqking FIRE!!! Laughing.......................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,313 Likes: 4 |
Reed, current average weight of the finished, painted stocks? Up... still waiting.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,676 |
Brad, I do know that Bansner changed the weight specs on their stocks perhaps a year or so ago, adding a couple/three ounces. Perhaps a pm to Reed or an email to Reed or Mark will confirm actual current weights. Given the tone of some previous posts Reed may be hesitant to subject himself and his company to further insults on an open forum. Nothing wrong with the questions asked but how they were asked was way over the top.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
We would be pleased to answer any questions about the rifle and our production as we can but may beg for a bit of patience in us getting the rifles to the market. What's with the twist rates you chose? Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Reed, Welcome, and thank you for posting; the information is interesting. One design point catches my eye from a safety perspective. From this photo of the bolt on the website, it looks like the extractor undercuts almost all of one lug, and there appears to be a hole drilled through the bolt for a pin or screw to hold the extractor in line with the lugs. This bolt design seems like weak from a safety perspective. Any more information or explanation regarding this design? http://www.legendaryarmsworks.com/product/the-closer/ Some are wondering about twist, but I would like to know more about what appears to be a one lug bolt design and thus safety question.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Hart in Pennsylvania used to use poured pillars made from Bisonite, then Marine-Tex for bedding the action. Like you said, very time consuming and not something you will see on a production rifle. Sounds like some folks would like to see these new rifles with a custom bedding job, Krieger barrel and maybe throw in a Jewell trigger too for $1500. Cant be done...not today I don't think. Gotta be realistic.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,313 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,313 Likes: 4 |
Nothing wrong with the questions asked but how they were asked was way over the top. Pat, my questions were polite. Why Rick continues to allow Midget Mouth to inhabit this forum is beyond me, but I would think a business man could see past a frustrated little man from AK and answer legitimate questions, especially those of a past, and potential future, customer. Banser didn't change their weights any time in the last ten years I'm aware of. Dober got an M70 this past fall and it's the same as the M70 I bought two and ten years ago.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,832 Likes: 18 |
I recently bought one for a Mauser and it also weighed the same as one I bought many years ago.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
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Brad, to be clear I thought your questions were done in a respectful manner. They used to list their blanks at 21-22 ounces, now they are listed at 23-24 ounces. Like you, I like their blanks, a lot. I have used them on mausers and remington 700s. One on a mauser (FN actually) was a 35 whelen that finished up right at 8lbs and it did a great job of minimizing recoil. The ones I have finished always ended up at 25-26 ounces with a 1" decelerator on them. The last one was probably 3-4 years ago.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,755 Likes: 56 |
Nothing wrong with the questions asked but how they were asked was way over the top. Pat, my questions were polite. Why Rick continues to allow Midget Mouth to inhabit this forum is beyond me, but I would think a business man could see past a frustrated little man from AK and answer legitimate questions, especially those of a past, and potential future, customer. Banser didn't change their weights any time in the last ten years I'm aware of. Dober got an M70 this past fall and it's the same as the M70 I bought two and ten years ago. Brad(Whining Kchunt), I DO enjoy your PERPETUAL Whining Kchuntfest on how Life ain't "fair". While I'll not speak for anyone/everyone else..I DO enjoy your Imaginary/Pretend Ignore and other Hissy Fits! mebbe quit again and Whine more?!? Laughing!! Your realization that you are amongst THE dumbest of fhuqks,don't begin to do your Nothingness any "justice". Laughing! DO tell about your "Boddington COAL latitudes" and "Hollywood Hunter throating"...you amazingly STUPID fhuqk!!! Don't cry in a corner,in your high-heels,when you could "suggest" your twist rate(s). Laffin'!!! Here's to the sanctity of Imaginary Pretend Ignore and your version of having a FIRST "clue". As an aside... who puts the spoon to your quivering lips? The ONLY thing you "shoot" is your mouth and Imagination,in no particular order. PLEASE find me "mistaken". Laughing!......... (addendum) Salty, PLEASE cite the "worse" twist rates you've "seen" and say a leetle sumptin' about boolits,while musing COAL and throating too. It WILL be fhuqking funny! Hint................
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,019 Likes: 7 |
Cool! I live near Trop gun shop. Was going to head over there for some 10 gauge shells today but got tied up doing other things.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Looks like a good platform twist rates aren't great but I've seen worse. Looking forward to hearing more.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2007
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[quote=jeffbird]Reed, Welcome, and thank you for posting; the information is interesting. One design point catches my eye from a safety perspective. From this photo of the bolt on the website, it looks like the extractor undercuts almost all of one lug, and there appears to be a hole drilled through the bolt for a pin or screw to hold the extractor in line with the lugs. This bolt design seems like weak from a safety perspective. Any more information or explanation regarding this design? http://www.legendaryarmsworks.com/product/the-closer/ Some are wondering about twist, but I would like to know more about what appears to be a one lug bolt design and thus safety question. Check out the next image on their site and you can see how the extractor functions.
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Posts: 20
New Member
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OP
New Member
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Posts: 20 |
Greetings Campfire, Apologies for the delay in responding to questions, we are very busy trying to meet the demand. There are a number of questions related to various topics as well some specific poster questions. Twist rates: I am pleased to tell you that after discussion with Mark and the gunsmithing team we will be changing the twist rate on the 243 to 1 in 9�. It will be reflected on the Web site next week during an update. In addition we are looking into all the other caliber twists to see if they too need �modernized�. For Steelhead, bloodworks, 4ager, darrenk75b, deflave and anyone else who questioned the 243 twist, we listened and changed. Please call the number on the LAWs Website to place your pre-order, we are ready. Brad: Yes we do have a scale in the shop and all the stocks have and have had weights assigned to them on the High Tech Specialties Web site. As you stated in your post there has been no change to that Web site and the stock weights for a number of years. It is action dependent of course so the weighs are different. I weighed one of the stocks that we are using on the Legendary Arms Works rifles and it weighs 25 ounces, painted, with the aluminum bedding blocks and a Pachmayr Decelerator pad installed. Stocks and Sales: We will continue to maintain the High Tech Specialties Web site and sell aftermarket stocks there as available. As available means that we will be focusing initially in the stocks for the Legendary Arms Works rifles and fill in the other stocks in production as we can. Mark had over 30 molds including most in left hand. The construction of the stocks has not changed in either the High Tech aftermarkets or the Legendary Arms Works stocks with the exception that the LAWS stocks will now have the aluminum bedding construction. The stocks are hand laid with multiple layers of fiberglass cloth (I believe 8 ounce weight) and the same high strength epoxy materials that Mark has always used. We will be broadening the line late 2015. With regard to the cheek piece-The Big Five model will have the fine line cheek piece for now. We are discussing the changes to production needed if we want to use that cheek piece on the Closer and Professional. There is some handwork involved which adds to production time but is sure looks nice I will agree. Stay tuned on this one. More answers and comments to follow. Thank you to everyone who had given us feedback on the rifles. Ron Spomer reviewed the rifle with Mark Bansner at SHOT and we have posted a video on our Web site here: Legendary Arms Works Thank you, Paul
Last edited by Reed; 01/31/15.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Thanks for sticking to it.... Good to see.
W
"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."
MtnHtr
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Reed, thanks a bunch man.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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How's that for catering to the customer?! Good work. How much to post one down here?
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