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I know there have been quite a few questions about 404 Jeff's projects and gunsmiths. I have gone through most of them and learned quite a bit. But I still have some questions. I have spoken to or emailed 5 barrel makers and gunsmiths and often get wildly different answers. Just looking for more opinions and trying find a general trend.
Basics of the project.
I have a pair of Sako High Powers based on commercial FN actions. Both are chambered in 300 H&H. One is going to be refurbished and remain a 300 H&H and the other will become a donor for the 404 Jeff project. I understand the conversion will involve work with the bottom metal, feed ramp, magazine box, rails etc along with the barrel and chamber. It seems like we live in a fortunate time and there are many excellent gun smiths and barrel makers out there. More options are not always helpful to decision making! I am not looking to have piece of art made.
Questions: 1. Thoughts on the FN action as a donor? Any pitfalls? 2. Should I find a single smith/company to manage the entire project or have different smiths/company's do the action work and then the barrel work? 3. Recommendations for the work? 4. Integral quarter ribs, sight bases and barrel bands or added to the barrel? 5. Both have Sako triggers and seem just fine. Keep or replace the triggers?
I have more questions but they really need to be answered by the person doing the work.
Thanks,
Scott
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Your money ,your choices.
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Your money ,your choices. Measure twice, cut once. Never hurts to ask. Thanks for your thoughts Scott
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1. Assuming it's structurally sound, nothing wrong with the FN as a basis and it sounds like you'll have a nice pair of rifles.
2. How patient are you? Splitting up the work sounds like a guaranteed way to make the project take a long time, but if you are particular about who does each piece of the work, pick and choose who you want to do each part of the work. One thing to consider, if you aren't happy with the end result, who do you go after to redress your issues? Personally I'd go with one reputable timely smith, pay what he asks and wait patiently.
3. I've never dedicated the funds for such a project so can't give a personal recommendation. I have used discount smiths in the past and have been unhappy, so would do the research on what smiths are considered top of their game. You could look at ACGM smiths.
4. Integral is a slick way to go, but I've had soldered on bands and sight bases with no problems. A money personal preference thing, I see either route perfectly acceptable.
5. If you're happy with them, stick with them.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I know there have been quite a few questions about 404 Jeff's projects and gunsmiths. I have gone through most of them and learned quite a bit. But I still have some questions. I have spoken to or emailed 5 barrel makers and gunsmiths and often get wildly different answers. Just looking for more opinions and trying find a general trend.
Basics of the project.
I have a pair of Sako High Powers based on commercial FN actions. Both are chambered in 300 H&H. One is going to be refurbished and remain a 300 H&H and the other will become a donor for the 404 Jeff project. I understand the conversion will involve work with the bottom metal, feed ramp, magazine box, rails etc along with the barrel and chamber. It seems like we live in a fortunate time and there are many excellent gun smiths and barrel makers out there. More options are not always helpful to decision making! I am not looking to have piece of art made.
Questions: 1. Thoughts on the FN action as a donor? Any pitfalls? 2. Should I find a single smith/company to manage the entire project or have different smiths/company's do the action work and then the barrel work? 3. Recommendations for the work? 4. Integral quarter ribs, sight bases and barrel bands or added to the barrel? 5. Both have Sako triggers and seem just fine. Keep or replace the triggers?
I have more questions but they really need to be answered by the person doing the work.
Thanks,
Scott Lot of questions yet to be answered. Are you going to use the Sako stock, a McM Sako Safari, or a top end walnut stock by a master? Different approaches, different budgets, different smiths. DF
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DF, I am actually closer than it would appear. Unfortunately, I just haven't been around many of these rifles. Trying to get a little more advice form those who have already traveled this road. Not much talk about the magnum length commercial FN actions like I have. Lots of opinions about opening up standard 98 actions and magnum actions. I wasn't sure where these H&H length FN's fit in. Thought they would be similar to the Mark X/Whitworth as a donor. Also have had a few false starts already because I started buying before I figured out what I really wanted. Sitting on a SS Win Classic in 300 RUM as a donor all because of you! Finally, realized that I want this to be a blued rifle after I could never commit to a coating product. Stock will be a McMillan for now, Safari or Classic. I will call Josh at McMillan on that one. Down the road I will pop for the wood stock.
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458 Lott - I like the integral hardware too. Haven't heard anything bad about them.
Edit - Wanted to include that the cost of purchasing and installing high end sight can also add up quickly. The jump up to the milled in rib and sight bases aren't always a big jump in price.
Last edited by SWJ; 02/20/15.
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Questions: 1. Thoughts on the FN action as a donor? Any pitfalls? 2. Should I find a single smith/company to manage the entire project or have different smiths/company's do the action work and then the barrel work? 3. Recommendations for the work? 4. Integral quarter ribs, sight bases and barrel bands or added to the barrel? 5. Both have Sako triggers and seem just fine. Keep or replace the triggers?
1. I'm in the process of building a .404 on the same action, but mine was a 300 Weatherby. No issues with action, but some metal will have to be removed. 2. I used one gunsmith (Roger Ferrell) for the metal and am having another do the stock (Roger M. Green). Ferrell is very good, but higher on his stock work. Green is excellent and very reasonably priced for custom work. 3. Not sure what you are asking 4. I chose NECG banded sights and sling mount. The integral is nice, but expensive. I also went with custom scope mounts from NECG. 5. The trigger should be good, but may have clearance issues with your bottom metal of choice. I used a Recknagel trigger and Weibe 4MJ bottom metal and follower. I also went with a Lothar Walther barrel. My goal was to build a relatively light, classically styled rifle.
Who is John Galt?
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Great info Mr. Fudd! Looks like we are heading in the same direction.
Did you find your FN 300 Bee on Guns International? There was a great deal on one that I thought was a typo. Called to find out and it was sold.
You answered my third question in your answer to my second question.
Thanks!
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Great info Mr. Fudd! Looks like we are heading in the same direction.
Did you find your FN 300 Bee on Guns International? There was a great deal on one that I thought was a typo. Called to find out and it was sold.
You answered my third question in your answer to my second question.
Thanks! I believe that I did get it on GI. I paid $950 for it and have around $600 in it after selling off parts. These are not really magnum length actions- they have the large bolt face and will accept H&H cartridges, but are not true magnum length. Mine required some opening and machining on the rails.
Who is John Galt?
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That is not the one I was thinking about. The one I saw was listed at $450!
For some reason I thought those were more than 98's opened up for an H&H length and bolt face.
Are the Interarms/Whitworths the same then?
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Not sure about the Whitworths, but assume that they are opened up standard length actions.
Who is John Galt?
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Talked to several gunsmiths about the project and had my parts list in hand. Found this one from Dennis Olson listed on the Fort Worth Tx Cabela's website for pretty much the cost of the parts. Called Dennis to have him look at it and he verified that it was his work (Cabelas did not have any supporting documentation and would not take the stock off the rifle). Just picked it up yesterday and I am happy with it overall. I am going to send it back to Dennis for a once over, a few tweeks and touch ups. I haven't given it a good going over yet but here are the details I have. Winchester Model 70 G series Douglas special order CM barrel at 23 inches Modified bolt handle - pear shaped Modified bolt release Original trigger but has been worked, don't know lbs but it is clean and crisp Dennis Olson quarter rib Barrel band - uncertain of make NECG Front sight English Walnut stock - LOP 14 inches Leupold 1.5 x 5 VXIII with a heavy duplex Weighs 9.5 lbs with three down, no sling. Here are the pictures I copied from the Cabela's website. They are better than anything I could pull off. Unfortunately the picture that shows the whole rifle was not saved properly. [img:center] http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/ab43/scwjones/404-13.png[/img]
Last edited by SWJ; 07/03/15.
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Mr. SWJ: Re: the FN actions. They are one of the very best ever IMHO. However, something you might want to do if possible is to get your hands on the old publication by Frank DeHaas called Bolt Actions I believe. It is one of the 2 best publications on action designs I've ever seen. In the section on FN commercial actions, he goes into a bit of detail on the FNs that were opened up for the H&H cases. It seems to me that he did express a bit of concern saying something about not pushing them too hard, however I cannot remember for certain. The pre-64 actions for the H&H cases were similarly opened up actions but of course did not have the split lug for the ejector as the Mausers do. Of course there are thousands of .375s using standard 98 actions that have been opened up for the longer case with no problems whatsoever. Sounds like a great project.
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Congratulations! Dennis does great work for less than a king's ransom and gets it done before your heirs fight over the rifle coming soon. All I can say is I wish I had it, and you had a better one.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Since I originally posted, I found another Sako/FN in 300 H&H. They apparently used two different barrel contours for the 300 H&H. My 107XXX has a much trimmer profile than my 105xxx. The trim one will likely stay a 300 H&H. The heavier may become a donor.
My only gripe with the FN's is the magazine box. I'm sure it is fine but I just don't like the welded on front of the magazine box.
I also pick up an unmolested Husqavarna in 8x57 that is built on a FN commercial action. Very smooth and well built. This one will likely stay irons only and an 8 mm.
I need to pick up DeHaas' book and the other that is more of a "shop manual" for references.
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Thanks, DF and Luv2safari.
I just got back a Parker-Hale Super Safari in 30-06 that needed a new safety and recoil pad. Had him clean it up and refinish the stock. The rubber pad had decomposed and I found straw in side the bolt body! Great work and fast.
Unfortunately, the 404 would not chamber Hornady ammo. Feeding was perfect but the chamber seems short. The bolt would not completely close and the bullets have a nice shinny ring on the olgive. It will be on it's way back to Dennis to see what is up and clean up the dings. I am going to change out the recoil pad while it's there. Just seems like the perfect application for a red recoil pad.
Last edited by SWJ; 07/27/15.
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Contact Jim Kobe in Minnesota. He's about the fastest and most reasonable I've found for this type of work.
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