Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 30-30 vs 223

My wife has two caribou rifles. She doesn't like recoil. Her original rifle is a Browning Micro Medallion in 223 that is scary accurate. Before people get mad we are careful hunters and this is North of the treeline and we haven't got in any trouble with the choice.


Still we have pretty much decided that 125 yards is the clean killing range of this caliber no matter what bullets are used. Past this we haven't been completely convinced even with good bullet placement.

I recently bought her a Stevens 325 (a Savage 340 look alike) in 30-30. This rifle also shoots like a bugger and needed a new mainspring and front sight and is now quite the peice of gear. I wondered how the 30-30 would compare to the 223 in killing potential so I begged the donation of several hundred pounds of unsold newspapers from our local paper and went to it.



left to right top row.

170 Hornady/ 170 CIL ST 170 CIL KKSP and the 225 Sierra lead only from my 358 Norma as a comparison

Second Row Left/Right

170 Hornady 64 Win PP 60 Nosler partition and 225 Sierra Jacket

Bottom Row Left-Right

125 Sierra / 125 Nosler BT (Mod) 130 Speer FN 150 Hornady Interbond (Mod)

I learned a fair bit. First of all most of the bullets gave adequate penetration for caribou. I measured the penetration with the soaked paper heavily compressed to be consistent and you could easily add 15% to the value to match up with other tests.

After 1" of penetration the 223 was already making a big wound while the 30-30 was only beginning to open (except for the 125 Sierra which opened quickly)After 3" of penetration the 30-30 and .223 made similar sized impact craters by 6" the 30-30 was still leaving a similar sized hole where the 223 holes had closed up considerably. In all I'd say that the 30-30 made 1.5 times the overall wound volume compared to the the 223. The second half wound volume was about twice that of the 223 where the first half wound volume was similar.

Below is my chart of findings

Bullet Speed Retained Weight %weightExpansionFoot Pounds Penetration
225 Sierra 2834ft/sec 143gr...64%...65x.78...4039ftponds..12" This from my 358 Norma with a known core shedder to test the media... Wound volume was enormous easily 3x that of the 30-30.
170ST 2043ft/sec...126 gr..74%...56x.64..1576ftpounds 10.8"
170KKSP 2204ft/sec..123gr..72%...52x.55caliber..1834ftpounds..11.4"
170 Horn 2068ft/sec..129gr..76%...48x.63caliber..1615ftpounds..11.7"
The 170 grain bullets offer very similar and consistent performance
150Horninterbond 2268ft/sec...139 gr..92%...73caliber..9" Point was removed to work to OAL
130 SpeerFN 2372ft/sec..107gr..82%..58x.61 caliber..1625fpounds..10.2"
125 NoslerBT 2246fsec..89gr..71%...50x.53caliber..1401fpounds...9.45" Again the point was removed to keep the OAL down
125 SierraSpitz..2491..108grains86%...60x.76caliber..1723ftpounds..8"

64Win PP 2862ftsec..50grains..78%...51x.52caliber 1164 fpounds..9"
60 Nosler Part...2938ftsec...44gr..73%.../41 caliber..1150fpounds.9.9"

Despite the low penetration I think the 125 Sierra has some potential..this was at close range velocity and penetration should go up as speed goes down. This ought to extend the humane range to 175 or maybe even 200 yards.

Guess we will retire the 223. for smaller stuff. It's traken about 5 caribou with no complaints but not surprisngly the old 30-30 is better. And yes I know that there are still better calibers but that old Stevens shoots the 125 Sierras into 1.5" open sight groups and will cycle empties through the magazine. The old girl has style. So does my wife come to think of it.

What's next, 7mm Magnum -vs- 50 cal Hawken ?

Come on now...these are two light rifles and I was interested to see how they compared. Both are considered iffy for big game by some (The 223 perhaps by most) and I was curious to see how they stacked up.

Nice pics and comparisons. Thanks for posting the pics to allow others to come to their own conclusions on what bullets work for their situations.

What wheres the 53 TSX's?

Both will take out Bou's no bout adoubt it.

For me if it were a 30/30 or my lil 223 I would take the 223 and my 53 TSX's and go a hunting.

But, that is just me.

Thanks for the time and efforts

Mark D

Good job and post! Thanks!

yeah, good post.
i like the bigger hole produced by the .30-30.

Very good post, North61. Thanks.

Very good post.

I like 30-30s for deer sized game.

Tho' Stick tells me a 223 will do . . .

BMT

North61 -

Excellent post. Nothing like real data, even if it is not on flesh.

Nor..,

When Clinton said AR-15's had no sporting purpose, I bought two. Wanted to see for myself. My reasoning was that a .223 would be O.K. if I used it at 30/30 ranges. Guess what? It was. At 50yds the .223 smacked deer as well as a .270. Killed two. End of experiment.

Sold my H-BAR because it was no more accurate than my CAR-15. No longer hunt deer with a .223, but if I have to , I know I can!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I wish all states would make it illegal to hunt big game with anything smaller than a .243 Winchester. The .30-30 is the clear choice.

Swampman-if you add to your post that it is the clear choice for you then I would agree.

Mark D

The last thing we need is our state telling us that we can't kill deer with 22 caliber rounds..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Many a deer have been taken at the hands of good marksman with the 22-250, 223, 222, and 22 hornet.....myself included.

I've killed a number of them with 30-30's too, but I wouldn't rank the 30-30 as making them deer any deader than the 223 and 22 hornet kills either......

They're all stilllll......not breathing.

A 223 boltgun is typically far more flexible than the Turdy-Turdy.

About the only accolade I could bestow the 'Turdy,is that they kick very hard,for whatcha get performance wise.

That very well may soothe some,though I'm not amongst those ranks......................

They kick hard? Please....

They typically exhibit the [bleep] stock designs knowed to man,replete with metal buttplates and that in conjunction with their typically modest weight,do accelerate felt recoil values as per relative "Ooooomph" ratios.

You said please and there it is...................

The .30-30 has taken just about every big game species in North America for a hundred years and more. Just have to get close enough so that you are delivering enough energy to the target, and use tough heavy bullets for really big game.

As for the .223, I think it would be a joke on the kind of game you are talking about, though I suppose if it missed bone, it would reek havoc on a large herbivore's innards.

Do I hear muzzle break anyone.........grin

The Turdy-Turdy is as lackluster as they come.

Would take an SKS before slumming that low and bank the negligable recoil to boot,as well as cheapaloo practice fodder and the bayonet.

Laffin'......................