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I'm looking to buy/build an AR that will end my desire for an accurate .223/5.56.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Money is always a consideration, but I'm not looking to skimp. I would like to keep the cost under 2500, excluding glass, but lower if possible. Accuracy trumps all of my desires, but have no time to hand load. I'm looking to shoot factory match ammo to around 300 yards with setup that will outshoot me.
My preference, if only for simplicity reasons, would be to purchase a completed rifle from a company like JP so I don't have to deal with making one from pieces. Some say that's a gross waste of money (it's about 3500 for their billet receiver model, target stock, etc.). If you suggest building one (or having it built), what/who would you recommend? Would a gunsmith be necessary? Where on the gun should money be saved, and where should it not be spared?
I've shopped around a bit and listened to a lot of talk. Everyone seems to have a different opinion - all with equal conviction - which is not helpful. Please post some fact-based or experience-based advice here, I'd be grateful.
Thank you
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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White Oak Precision... for the upper... you will come in with a tack driver for way under 3500... thats a ridiculous, to me, price.
Upper being 100 buck range, float tube 200 buck range somewhat. Add a few misc parts for 200, top line barrel is 300-400 max, and maybe 250 to put the barrel together, and then assemble upper a bit more...
All you do is come up with lower... with whatever stuff you need on it.
Fact based that we did a lot of competition shooting to 1000 yards with irons with Johns work and John is a top line shooter and national civilian champion with the AR....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Money not a consideration, start reloading...
Then spin one together, with a good bolt, barrel, trigger, scope and bases. It's easy peasy for anyone with basic wrenching skills.
Krieger or Lilja, brand name bolt, RRA NM or better trigger, SWFA 10x mil/mil on some solid bases, and you'll be in the game.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
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If you want to buy the most accurate AR15 in .223, and your budget is under $2500, Les Baer is the way to go. My Les Baer Super Varmint will shoot 1/4" 5-shot groups all day long! It's not only the most accurate AR-15 I own, it's the most accurate Rifle I own. My choice for a lower priced Accurate Factory AR would be one if the Rock River heavy barrel models. JMO, though. For whatever it's worth.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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Stag 3G for a street price of $1300-1350 is hard to beat, even building. SS Shaw barrel is 410SS, would have rather seen 416R, but everyone I've talked to says < 1MOA. Stag 3G MM
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Doubt you'll beat the White Oak Precision with a top of the line barrel just don't confuse them with White Oak Armament. Same company but they use Wilson blanks from what I understand. Not a bad choice but not the best.
I've bought or built several AR's, a few were accuracy minded and the most accurate barrel I've shot was from Krieger. I sold it due to weight and it's super tight chamber.
I now have 2 Noveske barrels that shoot half to 3/4 MOA which is all I need.
Another sleeper though is a BM Varminter, I know of one that shot under 1/2 MOA with cheap reman ammo.
Most varmint type AR's will shoot better than most people can. For 300 yards, you won't need heavy bullets so a 1/9 twist would be ok but I'd go at least 1/8. Stay away from billet hype, you won't get any better accuracy over forged receivers. It might look cool but they are heavier and 3 times the price.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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77smks take every bit of 8 twist to stabilize generally. Not sure anyone shoots 69s at 300 anymore.
If BM is Bushmaster, they can have some really good barrels and some so so ones. Just FYI.
And another note, Krieger is not the only top line barrel but the worst I"ve ever seen from them has been 3/4.... Rock is now my current choice but hear they are hard to get at the moment... THere are a couple others.
But don't miss teh quote about Wilson tubes... they are moa or under solidly, but they are not a top barrel.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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.
I've bought or built several AR's, a few were accuracy minded and the most accurate barrel I've shot was from Krieger. I sold it due to weight and it's super tight chamber.
Was it what they call a "Match" chamber.........whatever that means, & did it cause problems? Or was it just that the brass had to be sized down for it a bit more than normal? Tight or minimum headspace? I'm considering one, so that why I'm asking. MM
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If you want to buy the most accurate AR15 in .223, and your budget is under $2500, Les Baer is the way to go. My Les Baer Super Varmint will shoot 1/4" 5-shot groups all day long! It's not only the most accurate AR-15 I own, it's the most accurate Rifle I own. My choice for a lower priced Accurate Factory AR would be one if the Rock River heavy barrel models. JMO, though. For whatever it's worth. LB SV without the PRS stock option is $2640. He's a reassuring man to talk to - not to mention the .5 MOA guarantee (which he says he NEVER has anyone return guns over). He also says his the gun will do two .25 MOA 5-shot groups back to back. Not saying I can do that. Said 1:9 20" will spit 69-grain Fed Gold Match out to 900 yards. He said having them build the entire gun will help ensure accuracy, since they hand-fit everything. Are you gunnin just the upper? What ammo?
Last edited by Fiddy; 03/27/15.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Precision Reflex makes great uppers/rifles using Douglas match barrels. Uppers range from $1000-$1500 for an upper based on configuration.
Scott
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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If you want to buy the most accurate AR15 in .223, and your budget is under $2500, Les Baer is the way to go. My Les Baer Super Varmint will shoot 1/4" 5-shot groups all day long! It's not only the most accurate AR-15 I own, it's the most accurate Rifle I own. My choice for a lower priced Accurate Factory AR would be one if the Rock River heavy barrel models. JMO, though. For whatever it's worth. LB SV without the PRS stock option is $2640. He's a reassuring man to talk to - not to mention the .5 MOA guarantee (which he says he NEVER has anyone return guns over). He also says his the gun will do two .25 MOA 5-shot groups back to back. Not saying I can do that. Said 1:9 20" will spit 69-grain Fed Gold Match out to 900 yards. He said having them build the entire gun will help ensure accuracy, since they hand-fit everything. Are you gunnin just the upper? What ammo? Only an idiot would shoot 69s at 900 yards. I wont' even shoot em at 300 anymore since there are much better bullets. I've shot 69s at 600 before.. it ain't fun. At 900 it would be a waste of time. Building the entire gun does help just a tiny bit. On the order of about 0.10 group size less at 300 yards on 10 shot groups.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Much better bullets in factory loads? I'm all ears, let me know. Edit: Les Baer tests their guns with 69g Fed Gold Match
Last edited by Fiddy; 03/27/15.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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$2600 to shoot factory ammo???
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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69 GMM sometimes ain't bad... you can match accuracy, generally beat it most of the times, but sometimes its just good.
Not that its worht a flip in the wind past 200... no 68/69 is
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Regular
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$2600 to shoot factory ammo???
I'm not able to reload at the moment. Maybe down the road. But for a few years I'm going to be shooting factory match only. I don't want to buy a different setup when that day comes.
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69 GMM sometimes ain't bad... you can match accuracy, generally beat it most of the times, but sometimes its just good.
Not that its worht a flip in the wind past 200... no 68/69 is Can you suggest a bullet/ammo that is? This could affect the barrel I end up with. Thank you.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Black hills 77 gr OTM. While I've had a true 1/9 shoot the 77's and never seen a 1/8 that wouldn't, all mine are and will be 1/7.
MM, it was a minumim spec chamber, made segregating brass and loads a must. I could run a 1/2 a grain more powder in other guns I had. It still reached velocity with less powder but I'm want to like to standardize.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The Krieger chambers are accurate, but as noted, you have to segregate. Went to Kriegers and had em chambered Wylde or other after that...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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MM, it was a minumim spec chamber, made segregating brass and loads a must. I could run a 1/2 a grain more powder in other guns I had. It still reached velocity with less powder but I'm want to like to standardize. Thanks. Segregating is not a problem for 1 gun & just size to headspace accordingly. If functioning was the issue, I be more concerned. MM
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Thanks for all the input guys. I ended up getting a Stag Model 6 Varminter. So I'm back looking for some suggestions on factory match ammo to try through it. Purely for accuracy purposes. 1:8. Thanks a lot
Last edited by Fiddy; 05/04/15.
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