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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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Way I understood the news last night, this co-pilot went from no experience at all to having a commercial carrier license with 600 hours and 100 hours in the A320 within 3 years, and by the age of 26.
I know our military pilots do the same, but at least they go through some very extensive training and are watched over and tested to no end.
Just can't see it for someone not in the military.
Phil Clueless...
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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You saying having a 26 year old, with little experience, and neither his family, friends, or the company he works for knowing anything about his past alone in the cockpit of an A320 with 150 peoples lives in his hands is OK!
And I'm clueless....
Phil
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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You insuiniated his training was lacking.
No simulator time, no observation by an instructor pilot. They just handed him the keys and told him to go fly...
Yes, you are clueless.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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I didn't insinuate anything, and I would say the results pretty much back me up!
Phil
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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Look, if the pilot felt comfortable to leave him at the controls while he exited the cockpit I wouldn't guestion the copilot's flying skills. It wasn't his lack of training or ability that brought the aircraft down.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,256 Likes: 13 |
chit happens people die, it will always be that way.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Having some civilian fixed wing training and military rotor wing training, yes there is a difference. Civilian trained might primarily be fair weather flyers who go out for joyrides to build up time while military have training objectives for flights. While we like to go out for a joyride now and then, sightsee, go somewhere for lunch, we have to throw in some training value along the way for it to be approved.
I don't know where he got most of his flight training, a civilian place or company sponsored program, but civilian flight schools are a business and flight instructors are there to sell you their services. It is on your schedule, your pace, what you can handle. As with any salesman, they want you to like them, be comfortable around them, have you two get along or risk losing your money to another flight instructor they like more. Military flight instructors - some are cool and chill, others are pricks and don't give a damn. You deal with it either way, put up with the stress, the games, the attitudes, the schedules, the curriculum, or you fail.
I do see the point about low time civilian trained commercial pilots, however, he did meet all the requirements and passed their training program. He was a qualified pilot. That is going to be an issue in the next few years or more, airlines finding qualified pilots. Problem is who wants to spend $50-100k on flight training only to get a job that starts as low as $25k a year?
The real issue in this case was his mental stability, not his flying ability or experience. Had he gone military he would have been weeded out and never graduated flight school.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,285 Likes: 4 |
This is not a training or low flight hours issue. It is a whack-job issue. The military is certainly not exempt. Naval test pilot and astronaut: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Nowak
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
People can't seem to get past the idea that some folks go off the rails and kill other folks. There is no way to prevent it, only hope you aren't there when they do go off the rails, or be able to put a bullet in them when they do.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,325 Likes: 31 |
Doubtful that the video would be any worse than things just about everyone has already seen on TV or in movies.
The audio would be another story.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,744 Likes: 4 |
What sort of "safety devices" would you suggest that would change the outcome of these crashes? Pilots who don't want their dicks in the dirt!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
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Someone with the habit of videoing everything and posting it online.
Ed We can all hope it was one of the POS that video police officers to make them look bad as they do what they do.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
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Way I understood the news last night, this co-pilot went from no experience at all to having a commercial carrier license with 600 hours and 100 hours in the A320 within 3 years, and by the age of 26.
I know our military pilots do the same, but at least they go through some very extensive training and are watched over and tested to no end.
Just can't see it for someone not in the military.
Phil Yep, no problems with mental fitness among those who have been approved to pilot aircraft by the US Military.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,096 Likes: 5 |
This video (and others like it that may be found) will eventually be used as evidence in civil claims against the airline.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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No one should determine what you can or can not watch. The video should be posted somewhere. If you don't want to see it, don't look at it.
- Rogue
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Posts: 33,971
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971 |
This video (and others like it that may be found) will eventually be used as evidence in civil claims against the airline. What airline? I'll bet they file Chapter XX inside of a couple months. They were already in serious financial trouble. And it just got worse for the airline as they were told of the man's illness 6 years ago. You can write off Germanwings/Lufthansa!
Last edited by byc; 03/31/15.
Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!
Go Nats!!!!
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
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This video (and others like it that may be found) will eventually be used as evidence in civil claims against the airline. What airline? I'll bet they file Chapter XX inside of a couple months. They were already in serious financial trouble. I hope Christie gets in and gives them a bailout.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,912 Likes: 3 |
RogueHunter, No one should determine what you can or can not watch. The video should be posted somewhere. If you don't want to see it, don't look at it. A man after my own heart.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,213 Likes: 3 |
It seems to me a simple solution is to add a bathroom to the cockpit. It need not be fancy. Railroad heads crap in a bag....I think the airlines can move the door back enough to take a duece. They don't need the jump seat up there.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,632 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,632 Likes: 3 |
It seems to me a simple solution is to add a bathroom to the cockpit. It need not be fancy. Railroad heads crap in a bag....I think the airlines can move the door back enough to take a duece. They don't need the jump seat up there. You wouldn't be able to pay F/O's enough to fly with me.
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