Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Cop shooting man, Wal Mart Cottonwood Az. on dash cam

Now all but one has moved on to assault and terrorize others.

Which one "set it off?"

One cop says something like "we need to seperate these people for questioning" and then dad says something like "that is not happening." Fight breaks out. I guess I'm not seeing anything that says one officer "set this off." Something happened behind the group to set the fight off, reports are that a derelict threw a punch. Responsibility for this event is squarely on the band of derelicts.

That is always the case. It is always the fault of the civilian(s).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/

"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."


here is an incident where the perp got what they asked for when they pushed the officer:

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=1115381

No. I knew damned well I didn't have the temperament for it. I'd have shot three of the brothers for sure . I'm pretty critical of the police but they don't owe anyone proven to be wanting to do them harm. I'm not a fan of the over the top aggressive control everything attitude in policing and I believe that in many instances it would serve them and the people they interact with better if they used a less confrontational approach. That situation could have been streched over time and it would have allowed more backup and possibly a non violent arrest. They were already talking to the first officer so there was reason to believe that you could stall longer to put the man power number into your odds and end it peacefully. Knowing now that they were religious nuts waiting for the end times makes me think it would still have ended in a struggle but if they had waited for more backup and gone into the arrest expecting resistance they would have fared much better. LEO or not , getting into it when your outnumbered is a bad call and should be avoided if at all possible.

Backup arrived and the fight broke out immediately after they got there. Regarding more backup, the entire Cottonwood PD at night is 8 men. As soon as 3 and 4 showed up the fight broke out. All 8 responed eventually, the fight went on longer after the cruiser with the cam left with the shot officer but the worst of it was what is on camera I think.

I'm just saying it's easy to second guess everything but you don't expect a family to start throwing punches when asked to separate for questioning. I don't see evidence that they "knowingly got into it", the brawl was taken to them before officers 3 and 4 had time to sort anything out. The fight was boiling as they got there.

Yes, families are usually good about being divided by authorities.

Exactly right, half the force was there at the beginning of the fight. Watch you can see guns come out, hands go up, derelicts move off, gun gets holstered, derelicts resume fighting. You can see them rolling out of the taser. You can see them gouging eyes and always going for officers' heads. You can see one guy open up his eyes after getting pepper sprayed so the pepper runs out faster. It sure looks like a fight with the cops is something this family has talked about before.

You should try it. Theres nothing more fun than when I get a few of my Baptist bro's on a Friday night, get drunk playing poker, go to Wally World, steal beer, asaault store employees and fight with the cops.

I watched it. I doubt if I would have waited as long as the cops did before shooting one of them.

The cops used as much restraint as any human should have to.

According to the article I read, the cop who did the shooting was put on administrative leave, then the chief saw the video and said "fuggit",...you can go on back to work if you want to".

I think that was the correct call to make on the matter.

I see our resident cop hater had to put his two cents in.

I agree that it's easy to second guess and I agree that there was a fight coming but when the two officers arrived they were approaching when the order to separate them was announced in a loud and confrontational tone and the father then said thats not going to happen. As the approaching officer reaches them he puts hands on one and it's on. Waiting for them to actually reach the family and letting the arriving officers time to see the cast and assess the situation before trying to separate them may have given them the time and information to realize they needed more help. It had to be overwhelming once the fight started and trying to keep track of it was impossible for them. Three more officers there before the fight started would have been much better and I think they blew that chance by being too aggressive too quickly. Bottom line is that the responsibility for the fight and the death rests solely with the family but we're not discussing just how criminally stupid the family was but the professionalism and competence of the officers in responding. I don't think any of the officers did anything punishable wrong but I do think they missed big chances for a better result by being aggressive and rushing.

I think they were a family of nutscases that ain't got enough sense to go out in polite society without causing a scene that results in pandemonium.

Fair enough Daveinjax, I hear you, and hindsight is always 20/20,



About this though I would argue that officer did not want the derelict to get behind him since he was responding to a call for immediate backup for combative persons and they were still outnumbered. Suppose he'd have let that guy go by and got clocked from behind? Or suppose he'd been armed and stuck a shank as he came behind the officer? That perp should have just stopped instead of being combative, I think he had every right to stop him from getting behind him.

I 'chased' (escourted) prisoners and was inside guard for prisoners waiting court martial while in the USMC. I learned then that there was no way I could do that in the civilian world!

35 years later I worked security at the Bufflao Chip Campground for the Sturgis Ralley. My USMC attitude returned. I should have never accepted that job. Good thing it only lasted a week or I would have surely gone to jail for over-reacting. Nothing like drunken bikers who thought they could take on the world and those on all sorts of mind altering drugs to push my buttons.

Cops should have stayed out of the brawl

Eyeball , I don't know about Arizona law but in Florida the whole family could be charged with murder I believe. Here , if some dies while you are participating in the crime you can be charged with their death even if you were not the trigger man. You could be waiting in the getaway car outside and you're still on the hook for the murder. In Florida they all could be put away for life if they had participated in assaulting the officers.

Not a cop hater at all. I didn't say there was anything wrong with officers taking that view or action did I?

Proof an ASP is the second worst tool ever given to LE. And I agree, they showed a lot more restraint than they should've in shooting a few more of them.

Or what if the derelicts vehicle was just a giant IED and they were luring as many officers as possible in to the kill zone. All the more reason for agencies to get MRAPs.

Darn. Now what am I going to do for fun on a Friday night?