Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 24HC Black Rifle Challenge Thread

Hell, you did better than I did today. Here's the Noveske, back together again:






I didn't even break moa for either of the groups!!!!!!!!

Post them targets up guys. Hopefully you guys are shooting. Wouldn't want to see anyone getting rusty!!! I shot my 6WOA today at 400 yards. Damned near burned the center out of the 4" plate. Shot it off its hinges, thought I broke it, but thankfully it was just the hinge pin fell out of the stand... That WOA is a solid performer at range for sure. Almost too calm to shoot today...

Top Scores to this thread are looking something like this. OP can confirm:

1. scenarshooter (Mr. Pat Sinclair): .475 MOA. We all know GAP is damn good. Too bad I can't afford one. How about you guys? Optics on this rifle were second to none as well. Damn good shooting Mr. Sinclair:
GA Precision GAP10, 6MM Creedmoor
Barrel: 21" Bartlein 5R 1-7.7"
105gr. Scenar
Scope: 3-12X50 S&B PMII


2. m1919: .682 MOA:
RRA Predator Pursuit upper
SSA-E
Standard A2 stock and grip
16X SS on a SSALT
50gr. A-max

3. BSA1917hunter: .777 MOA
Northtech Defense 20" fluted stainless barrel
2 stage RRA varmint match trigger
Burris AR556 rifle scope with windplex reticle
73gr. ELDM

4. tex_n_cal: .783 MOA:
Armalite 20" heavy barrel
16x SS SWFA
77TMK

5. KeneticPerformance: .819 MOA.
Barnes Precision BPM 15
Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm G2 in LaRue mount
69gr. Nosler

6. bsa1917hunter: .833 MOA:
Stag 6HL, Black Rain Ordanance BCG, PRS stock, RRA National match 2 stage trigger
Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x40 with Leupold mount
69gr. Sierra BTSP

7. BSA1917hunter: .834 MOA
Northtech Defense 20" fluted stainless barrel
2 stage RRA varmint match trigger
Burris AR556 rifle scope with windplex reticle
73gr. ELDM


8. MontanaMan: .867 MOA:
Viltor MUR upper, Aero Lower, WOA 18" barrel gun with a NF SHV 3-10 scope


9. Fiddy: .896 MOA
Stag Varminter (Model 6) with SWFA 16x FF
Black Hills 69gr. MKHP

10. BSA1917hunter: .907 MOA
M&P 10 6.5 creedmoor
140 ELDM H4350, Starline brass
Burris AR 762 4.5-14x42 C4 with windplex in PEPR mount

11. M1919 .948 MOA
Rifle: BHW 1:8 twist, SSA-E, PRS, SWFA 12X, etc....
243
105 BTHP
37.5gr RL-17
Lapua Brass
CCI 200

12. Certifiable: .935 MOA
Stag model 6
SWFA 16x
SWFA SSALT mount
52gr. sierra in PMC brass

13. MontanaMan: 1.004 MOA
Not sure on the set-up due to lost pictures...

Awesome shooting guys!!!

It's not "black" like it's brothers, so hopefully I don't get disqualified... I'm hoping it shoots every bit as good as it's black brother from a different mother(the Northtech defense)....:


I have been wanting to try the 77 TMK's that I bought 6 months ago. This is going to be the rifle I'll start working on that bullet with. Of course, I'll use the load my Northtech defense likes as well. That rifle shoots well enough:



I'm hoping for good things to happen with the 77 TMK though, then I'll start shooting steel at 450 and see how she fares...

Like I said, I took the FDE rifle out today with it's new Windham Weaponry barrel. I pulled the gunfighter grip off and put my usual K2+ on before I took her to the range:


Sorry guys, she's not "BLACK" hopefully the OP doesn't disqualify me.. ha ha..

Glad to say that this new barrel wants to impress, popped the sub moa cherry right out of the gate and with no load development with the 77TMK. Just used the same charge wt as I use for the 73gr ELD match bullet and there you go. Pretty simple:

Rifle: Rogue Defense upper and lower made locally (Milwaukee Oregon)
Burris MSR 4.5-14x42 rifle scope
Leupold mkII scope mount
Armaspec LPK
All ambi controls, BADD lever, etc...
FDE PRS stock
Carbine buffer spring and H2 buffer I believe
Rogue Defense 15" handguard that resembles the Noveske NSR
K2+ grip
NEW 20" stainless Windham Weaponry varmint exterminator barrel
Load: 20.5 gr. AR Comp, FC brass, BR4 primed, 77gr. TMK (new load)

Rifle in the rain today:


Target at 100 yards away:


Target:


I was using one of my cheaper rear bags and it wasn't agreeing with me, so I swapped it out on the second group. The smaller leather sand bag made a big difference. Wish I would have used that one for both groups.

Target with caliper laid over group for reference:


[.926 MOA AVG]

I'm pretty freeking stoked about that score. The next time around it's going to be better. You can bet your azz on it... By the way, I think I'm going to like those 77 TMK's....

BSA, that's good shooting & a very nice rifle, but that load of 20.5 gr of AR-Comp is only around 23-2400 FPS................for reference Black Hills MK 262 is nominally 2750.

I've been using AR-Comp for a while & am generally around 22.4 - 22.8 gr with 77 gr bullets for 2700 -2750'sh in multiple guns.

C'mon, man, ya gotta get with some Big Boy loads for that new rifle.

Here's a link to one of a series of trials done to attempt to duplicate MK 262 loads with various powders.................about 10-12 episodes altogether. He shows 22.0 gr AR-Comp as being around 2625 FPS & you are 2 full grains below that.

For the last year or so, I've moved to IMR-8208XB as my prime go-to powder for an AR for the most part, but I'm going to try some AA-2520 in the near future too.

MM

Cloning MK-262

8208 vs AR-Comp

Thanks buddy. Ill get the chrono out next time. It was raining cats and dogs yesterday. Ill bump up the charge weight as well and see about running higher velocities if need be. Im pretty happy so far with that new barrel. Seems like it will shoot as good as my Northtech Defense with the same barrel. As for 8208. I gave that a try in my 6WOA and they were all over the place. AR Comp flat out smokes that powder in that case. Ill stick with ar comp, as its proven to produce sub moa groups very consistently, in both my ars and bolt guns. Its good chit, as far as im concerned. More guys should pull out their black rifles and shoot this thing. Low velicities, high velicities, i dint give a fu ck. Put them in the orange, thats what its all about. Shoot, [bleep] or get off the pot/couch..

Did you buy just the WW barrel or did you buy the upper kit?

Don't know anyone else that has used their barrel so I don't know anything about them really but they have an attractive package price on a 224 Valkyrie package right now too..................I've thought about getting a 224 V just to play around, but I need another new cartridge to tool up for & load for like I need a hole in the head..................too much stuff sitting idle lately as it is & sitting on lots of empty brass.

Is that a WW barrel on the Northtech upper or is it a Northech barrel...........wasn't sure from your write up?

MM

2520. John says the powders have changed but 2520 was the worst variable powder I've ever seen lot to lot in my life.

Made me mostly swear at and swear off ever using AA again.

Though I now use AA in the 10mm loads.. I sure try to avoid it like the plague if I can.

That said, as noted, John says its all different now.

The old lots would vary my speed with same charge up to 200 fps plus depending....

Geez, thats pretty bad.

I generally agree about AA powders, but it's hard to deny the results in this series of tests especially when he repeats the results on more than one occasion. But granted, it's only one gun & one shooter but the results are hard to ignore & there are some other guys on SH that are using it too.............but lots more use 8208.

But I'll buy a pound to try anyway, just because I can..................then I'll know for sure for myself.

AA-2520 & CFE-223

Verifying best loads so far

MM

Sorry about that. My Northtech Defense upper has a ww varmint exterminator barrel on it and it shoots very well. That is the reason i decided to roll the dice and buy another barrel. When I bought the Northtech, it was already set up with that barrel. I dont think it has many rounds down it, but it has been one of my most consistent shooters. Id buy another. A valkyrie would be cool and probably damn accurate. Oh, on the new barrel, i installed it on my Rogue Defense upper. Its a cheap upper, but shoots pretty good.

Yeah, I think the Valkyrie is a nice round, but there have been some issues with various versions of the chamber reamer & there's been a lot of hit & miss, accuracy wise.

Some have it figured out now, some not so much................I don't know where Wyndham falls in that spectrum, but their kit price is very attractive.

Like I said, I really don't need to start up with another new cartridge................but it's a pretty impressive performing round.

Here's a few comments & reports from Frank (Lowlight), who runs Sniper's Hide, recently.

224 Valkyrie Report

MM

Yeah, you and me both. I could get by with just running a 223/556 in the AR platform, but I had to add a 308, 6.5 creed and 6WOA to the stable... Maybe I was just getting bored with the 223?? I believe some people here have had good luck with the valkyrie. Interested to hear what Frank from Snipers Hide has to say about it... Speaking of that place, they used to have a moa all day long challenge there as well as arfcom. I always think 5 5 shot groups are so much simpler to shoot than 2 10 shot groups. Obviously to be in the top 10, in this challenge here, its a great honor... Like rost said one time, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it... It's a good reason to keep shooting though. Hone in those skills....

2520 is absolute garbage better off using it for fertilizer.. for 10mm use longshot..

Calm down stone cold killer.. I use Varget now days.. I chit canned RL15 it was running slow. I use 24.5gr varget with 80.5gr Berger’s. I use varget with my TMK as well. Tomorrow I finally leave for home. So I will be able to see what I have for notes with TMK.

Varget is a great accuracy powder, one of the very best, but you can't get enough in the case to get much over 2600 FPS with 77's.

If that is enough for you, Varget is hard to beat; the only other issue with it is that it fairly large grained & doesn't flow through a powder measure nearly as well as several other comparable powders for high volume loading.

But f I was picking a pure accuracy load, especially for 100-300 yard work, at anything between 2500 & 2600 FPS with 77's, it would be hard not to go with Varget.

MM

24.5gr varget is my go to load out to 600yds for nra mid range shoots. I use Lyman digital powder dispenser so I don’t worry about the flow through manual powder dispenser. I’m getting 2650 with 80.5gr Berger as well. RL 15 was abysmal I’m pretty sure I got ahold of a slow lot of RL15. Its too bad cause I was getting phenomenal accuracy but 2560 with a 77 not good.

Shoot me a text if you have specific long shot data. When I started 10mm stuff had Power pistol on hand for the 180 xtps and read enough that I got AA 7 or 9, maybe 9, for the heavy hardcast stuff.

I like the "high volume" reloading aspect. That's why I use the powder I use. It's accurate enough for me and I can load 3-400 rounds per hour with a single stage loader..If I had to trickle and weigh every charge in the tiny 223 case, I'd give it up... I feel the same way about my AR10 308 loads..