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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1 |
I have switched to 147 grain loadings and wonder what the consensus is on the 9mm subsonics vs the lighter 9mm bullets? I have come to wonder if the 115 +P+ bullets will exit or penetrate deeply enough?
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,144 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,144 Likes: 4 |
I practice with 115 grain what evers. But I carry 124 grain loads,for no particular reason.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
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124 grains seems to be a good balance between mass and velocity for THIS cartridge.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,568 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,568 Likes: 1 |
This discussion will never end, neither will it be settled which is better, a 9mm or 45 Auto. For the sake of simplicity it matters more where the bullet goes than the bullet itself. This is true for any cartridge...
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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124's in +p, at least in the 9mm style.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,524
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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If I was going to carry a Nine it would be with a 147 grain JHP. Any old ball for practice.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121 |
---------------------
Last edited by 41magfan; 05/09/15.
The uninitiated are always easily impressed.
NRA Endowment Member
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Joined: May 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
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There was a Larry Vickers posting on Facebook the other day in which he asked 10 "experts" to choose between the 9 and the .45. All but Hackathorn picked the 9 (including, to my great surprise, Bill Wilson). One, or maybe two of them said, "there's no such thing as a magic bullet….." but then went on to comment on the technological advances in projectiles having made the 9 a great cartridge. Struck me as a self-negating argument, but logic doesn't play much of a role in these types of discussions. Experts like DocRocket assure us that today's trauma surgeons can't tell the difference between 9 and .45 wounds, so maybe there are "magic" bullets, or at least very efficient ones. FWIW, a close friend just finished Bob Vogel's course and reported that Bob and a few other top IDPA shooters are using 147 gr. bullets as they feel that they recoil less.
The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
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I don't go by bullet weight, but by bullet. I like the Corbon DPX 115, Speer Gold Dot 124 and Winchester Ranger 127. From what I've read, they all do the job.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,522
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
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I use standard pressure 124 gr Federal HST. The HST bullet seems like a good one and, I think 124 is a good blend of weight and velocity.
Ernie
George Washington - �Labour to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire,�conscience.�
God save the Republic
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,797
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
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I practice with 115gr but carry 147 grain. I use either the Federal Hydro shock or HST.
The 147gr. seem to shoot better and have less recoil than the lighter stuff.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949 |
If it is going to be a 115 pushed fast it had better be bonded or a DPX. I would have no qualms using the Gold dot 115+p load but I prefer the 124 flavors. I would carry gold dot 124+p or HST 124+p as the first choice in 9mm. If I was not so cheap I would grab the 115 DPX.
I like the +p loads because I feel they give an extra margin for reliability when shooting one handed, injured etc. I know I can make a Glock or M&P choke with standard 124 if I limp wrist it but cannot make it happen with +p loads.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
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Copy and paste from Dr. Gary K. Roberts (aka docGKR) below: "The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:
9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)"
Service Caliber Handgun Duty and Self-Defense Ammo
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
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Forgot to mention that the list above from Dr. Roberts was updated 2/6/15.
For those not familiar with docGKR (from 2008, so a little outdated):
Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery. After completing his residency at Navy Hospital Oakland in 1989 while on active military duty, he studied
at the Army Wound Ballistic Research Laboratory at the Letterman Army Institute of Research and became one of the first members of the International Wound Ballistic Association. Since then, he has been tasked with performi
ng military, law enforcement, and privately funded independent
wound ballistic testing and analysis. He remains a Navy Reserve officer and has recently served on the Joint Service Wound Ballistic IPT, as well as being a consultant to the Joint FBI-USMC ammunitions testing program and the TSWG MURG program. He is frequently asked to provide wound
ballistic technical assistance to numerous U.S. and allied SOF units and organizations. In addition,
he is a technical advisor to the Association of Firearms and
Toolmark Examiners, as well as to a variety of Federal, State, and municipal law enforcement agencies. He has been a sworn Reserve Police Officer in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he now he serves in an LE training role.
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,874 |
There was a Larry Vickers posting on Facebook the other day in which he asked 10 "experts" to choose between the 9 and the .45. All but Hackathorn picked the 9 (including, to my great surprise, Bill Wilson). One, or maybe two of them said, "there's no such thing as a magic bullet….." but then went on to comment on the technological advances in projectiles having made the 9 a great cartridge. Struck me as a self-negating argument, but logic doesn't play much of a role in these types of discussions. Experts like DocRocket assure us that today's trauma surgeons can't tell the difference between 9 and .45 wounds, so maybe there are "magic" bullets, or at least very efficient ones. FWIW, a close friend just finished Bob Vogel's course and reported that Bob and a few other top IDPA shooters are using 147 gr. bullets as they feel that they recoil less. Someone posted an extensive list of top pistol instructors including Vickers, Hackathorn, Haley, Costa, etc. and the vast majority carried a 9mm for personal defense. Either a Glock or M&P. I don't recall a single one choosing an XD or a 40 of any flavor.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 952
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 952 |
I use Winchester Ranger T 127 gr. +P+.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,736
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,736 |
My Browning HP always liked 147 grain best. My CZ 75D PCR is most accurate with 124 grain HydraShock.
The new to me Glock 19 also seems to do best with the 124 grain stuff.
Sam......
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,264 Likes: 10 |
I don't go by bullet weight, but by bullet. I like the Corbon DPX 115, Speer Gold Dot 124 and Winchester Ranger 127. From what I've read, they all do the job. I prefer either the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P load, or the Corbon +P+ 115 HP. I'll have to buy some of that Winchester Ranger 127 gr ammo, and see how it shoots in my 9mm's. Looks to be a good round.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,312 Likes: 1 |
funny no one but the hoi polloi seems to like the Croatian pistols. I think the 147 grain Remington HTP seems good. Also Chuck Hawks says never use a 147 grain 9mm bullet and he is such a dip, that they must be good. All I know is that +P+ 115 will not shoot thru too much due to a dog attack a few years ago, into the head it don't matter I guess.
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