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Okay Brain,

here is what you posted in this thread, you have not answered many many questions asked of you, specifically the ones that I posed above. You have dodged and deflected but never directly answered anything, and now to the surprise of absolutely nobody you are starting to play the victim card again. Though the reaction to this thread couldn't be through your fault, nothing ever is I'm sure.

Originally Posted by Brian_Ward


Thompson / Center Arms Found at Fault in Catastrophic Gun Failure


On September 1, 2005, I was severely injured by a catastrophic gun failure. My face was permanently disfigured and sight in my right eye was lost forever. I was shooting with the Thompson/Center Encore Rifle. It blew apart because of a defect in its design. That horrendous day propelled me down a path I never planned on or wanted in my life. I’m not speaking out for personal gain or to be vindictive toward Smith & Wesson or Thompson/Center Arms (Thompson/Center Arms has apparently been sold to Smith & Wesson). I merely want the truth about this rifle to be known. I don’t want anyone to go through the pain and suffering I’ve endured. In my opinion, this rifle defect is something that was known about and has been covered up for years.

After almost 10 years of battling over the Encore, I received the final judgment order from the 46th Circuit Court for the County of Otsego, Michigan. I sued Thompson Center Arms (TCA), and the jury found TCA at fault. The jury found TCA to have a defect in its design and found their manual to be defective.

Throughout this entire process, from the day that my rifle had failed, until being given the green light to speak freely about this rifle, I have felt as though I’m involved in a David and Goliath scenario. In the end, no matter how much money they threw at this problem, with their team of lawyers and paid experts, the truth could not be veiled from the jury. At many points over the nearly 10 years since my injury, I have experienced hopelessness about the outcome of the case. One of these moments occurred during the trial. My attorney had in his possession letters, obtained from Thompson/Center through discovery, from other individuals who had incurred similar injuries from the same type of failure. Although the letters were discussed in open court, they were not allowed to be shown to the jury as evidence, based on a technicality concerning Thompson / Center’s claims as to when they had actually received the letters in relation to the date of my injury. A representative of the company did admit that he saw failures of this kind during testing. He also admitted that TCA destroys customer complaints every six months.

Because of the pending suit, I have not been able to share these details until recently. I cannot adequately express what a tremendous relief it is to be able to finally share the truth about the dangers of this rifle.

Most gun owners I know - including myself - thought suing a gun company was practically blasphemy. My suit was never about anything more than seeking truth. I believe wholeheartedly in the Constitution and stand for our Second Amendment rights. I love freedom. I was an NRA member when my injury occurred and I’m an NRA member now.

This is the first lawsuit brought against TCA regarding this rifle that has been successfully litigated. In my opinion, TCA is fighting me so hard because the Encore Rifle has been wildly popular. A recall would cost potentially a lot of money. Still, I am now finally allowed to spread the truth about this gun. Please notify anyone you know who owns this rifle that it could catastrophically fail!

The judgment is attached. I have blacked out the award amounts because the money is not important in this regard. No amount of money can compensate me for the loss of my sight and the years spent in recovery. Additionally, I truly believe this company will continue to fight this judgment, and as a result I will never see any monetary compensation. The court documents are now a matter of public record, and if you wish to seek out more details they can be obtained.

Thank you for your time, and if you would like any additional information please let me know.

Sincerely,

Brian Ward
Originally Posted by Brian_Ward
I guess you can't upload PDF's here?
Originally Posted by Brian_Ward
Originally Posted by Brian_Ward
To summarize and very very briefly in my opinion the big take away from my case was the TCA Encore can not keep tolerances and head space grows overtime, especially with larger calibers like I was shooting (300 win mag).
In my trial we had 3 guns with excessive head space.
My gun was out of spec.
A gun with 5 shots was out of spec.
A gun with no shots was out of spec.


Originally Posted by Brian_Ward





There 10 years’ worth and 1000s of pages of documents and testimony being held with the 46th Circuit Court for the County of Otsego, Michigan if you want all the facts of the case. Public Record

The simple answer is what I have time for right now and it’s what I posted above” You can disregard everything I say but PLEASE if anyone has this gun or knows someone with one out of morbid curiosity check the headspace or have a gun smith check the headspace.” Then see what a qualified gun smith tell you to do.



Originally Posted by Brian_Ward



Since you asked so nicely...I made no reloading mistake. My loads did not exceed SAAMI PSI for the 300 win mag. They were at max but not over….I was hunting for moose with grizzly walking around.

Originally Posted by Brian_Ward


Guys,
Some of you are trying to beat me to death about details, and I have been posting things people have asked for. Have you read all my previous posts? It seems like I’m rehashing things. I do know the details, but please remember I’m not a gunsmith or an engineer. But I have a fairly good grasp for a layperson. The Encore rifle hasn’t been in my possession in almost 10 years so I’m not able to break out the calipers and give you guys measurements.


Regarding the 40% fault issue. It seems like a lot of people are getting hung up on that. I’m not trying to hide that at all. But it is pure speculation why the jury decided how they did. I posted all the information I have….. the verdict. The jury didn’t write a paper summarizing their thoughts in the deliberation room.



Originally Posted by Brian_Ward
I will not be posting for a few days. I’m going away with my wife and kids for Memorial Day weekend. I should be back in front of my computer Wednesday.

Thanks,

Brian Ward


Originally Posted by Brian_Ward


You are right, it is a personal choice. IMO most people don’t think a 30-30 is a good grizzly bear round.


Originally Posted by Brian_Ward


It’s kind funny when there are statements like this. “His load as he stated it was probably 5-6 grains above max saami pressure for the 300 WM.” Wow! Kind of apples and oranges there bud.

I’m not recommending anyone exceed limits with their loads. As stated above 26th edition Hodgdon Data Manual states 83. I very judiciously worked up to 85. A lot of other factors can be weighted. That is why I stated my procedure above. I’m not hiding this at all, I very openly and willing gave this to T/C Arms, the jury, and this forum.

H-1000 is one of the slowest burning powders around; which makes a 2 grain increase not much of a pressure rise.
Hand loaders can archive more constant accuracy, and pressures over factory loads. Factory loads on a hot day in the SW US or Africa can have pressure spikes well above my loads.

My loads were within SAAMI service maximum avg. pressure limits.

You can disregard everything I say but PLEASE if anyone has this gun or knows someone with one out of morbid curiosity check the headspace or have a gun smith check the headspace. I don’t know if there is much more I can add here.


Originally Posted by Brian_Ward



I thought I did post what happened, I think people are attacking me and getting worked up when they have not read what I posted before...I’m trying to answer every question I have gotten.

The action is in one piece, I was unable to post the picture here but it is on multiple other forms...just google it.

I increased the cartridge length reducing the compression of the load....no magazine problems because it is a single shot.

Plunger (Lug?) still works but has chips on the corners.




Originally Posted by Brian_Ward


I did answer these, please go back and read my posts.










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I'm not worried about "embracing the truth", as I wouldn't own a T/C break-open gun to begin with. Never gave a crap about them, and never will.

Break-open guns belong to starter model shotguns, and nothing more.


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[quote=taylorce1][Linked Image]

As long as I'm idly wishing for answers, what it the black thing on end of the barrel in this picture? Muzzle brake, or ?
Factory? If not, what?

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Again Brian...

What lab did the testing.

Who were the experts that you consulted.

Was a pressure barrel used.

Were your loads within SAAMI spec beyond pressure, size length etc...








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Originally Posted by ratsmacker


Break-open guns belong to starter model shotguns, and nothing more.


Oh, I don't know about that: [Linked Image]


although I do very much share your sentiments on the POS characteristics of TCs...




A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Originally Posted by 4ager
Since the .300WM headspaces on the belt, how exactly does the headspace get to be excessive?


That's the "official" headspace setter for belted mags. But for handloaders the clearance in the shoulder area is quite important, just as in other bottle necked cartridges.

BTW, I'm not arguing pro-OP.

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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by 4ager
Since the .300WM headspaces on the belt, how exactly does the headspace get to be excessive?


That's the "official" headspace setter for belted mags. But for handloaders the clearance in the shoulder area is quite important, just as in other bottle necked cartridges.

BTW, I'm not arguing pro-OP.


I understand that. However, since the belt is there, the shoulder spacing is largely irrelevant so long as it does not shrink the length of the neck to an unusable length.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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I don't see it that way. If the chamber is "long to the shoulder" than the brass will stretch and thin ahead of the belt.

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Originally Posted by mathman
I don't see it that way. If the chamber is "long to the shoulder" than the brass will stretch and thin ahead of the belt.


But he said his cases looked normal with no signs of pressure. If they were stretching to the point of failure him and his experts, whoever they are would have noticed.








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Originally Posted by heavywalker
Originally Posted by mathman
I don't see it that way. If the chamber is "long to the shoulder" than the brass will stretch and thin ahead of the belt.


But he said his cases looked normal with no signs of pressure. If they were stretching to the point of failure him and his experts, whoever they are would have noticed.


Exactly. And, the brass (instead of stretching) may well have just bumped the shoulder forward as is done in forming something like the .300Wby from .300H&H, or similar.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by heavywalker
Originally Posted by mathman
I don't see it that way. If the chamber is "long to the shoulder" than the brass will stretch and thin ahead of the belt.


But he said his cases looked normal with no signs of pressure. If they were stretching to the point of failure him and his experts, whoever they are would have noticed.


Hence my earlier comment about my not arguing pro-OP.

I'm merely addressing a particular point about belted cases and official vs. actual headspace.

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300WM AI?








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I always enjoy seeing the single shot Encores selected for Big Game with the 6-8 round shell holder on the stock, just in case...

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by heavywalker
300WM AI?


Can't be.

Something as blatant and pertinent as rechambering would have definitely been forthcoming in the narrative.

I reject this hypothesis.

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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by heavywalker
Originally Posted by mathman
I don't see it that way. If the chamber is "long to the shoulder" than the brass will stretch and thin ahead of the belt.


But he said his cases looked normal with no signs of pressure. If they were stretching to the point of failure him and his experts, whoever they are would have noticed.


Hence my earlier comment about my not arguing pro-OP.

I'm merely addressing a particular point about belted cases and official vs. actual headspace.


I know I just wanted to be clear that 'experts' said there were no signs of pressure in the previously fired cases...

So we are led to believe that everything was fine with no warning signs and then one shot later, BOOM.








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Originally Posted by Deerwhacker444
I always enjoy seeing the single shot Encores selected for Big Game with the 6-8 round shell holder on the stock, just in case...



Or when you overload the cartridge in case a charging bear, but don't worry about a follow up shot.








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Originally Posted by heavywalker

I know I just wanted to be clear that 'experts' said there were no signs of pressure in the previously fired cases...

So we are led to believe that everything was fine with no warning signs and then one shot later, BOOM.

I had a professor in college who was a Professional Witness/"Expert". Didn't matter who was right or wrong, he'd sit and argue on the witness stand, and try proving anything scientifically or mathematically if the $$$ was right.

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I haven't had anything to say in this thread. But it appears that the action of the rifle was sufficient to withstand whatever it was that was fired through it. The problem is, the stock wasn't up for the task. It's hard to say whether the overload was responsible for enough recoil to break the stock, but in any event, it's surprising to me that someone got a judgment in their favor when using handloads in the rifle that were, by the published data, loaded above the listed maximum.

In fact, from a legal prospective, it would seem to me that manufacturers are exempt from any liability in the use of handloads.

Think of it this way. If you buy a commercial cartridge that turns out to be overloaded and you get injured by how the rifle reacts to it,..who gets sued? The ammo manufacturer or the rifle manufacturer?

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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by heavywalker
Originally Posted by mathman
I don't see it that way. If the chamber is "long to the shoulder" than the brass will stretch and thin ahead of the belt.


But he said his cases looked normal with no signs of pressure. If they were stretching to the point of failure him and his experts, whoever they are would have noticed.


Exactly. And, the brass (instead of stretching) may well have just bumped the shoulder forward as is done in forming something like the .300Wby from .300H&H, or similar.


Whether the shoulder bumps forward or the case stretches just ahead of the belt depends in large part on the headspace as set by the reamer, and to a lesser extent on how hard/soft the brass is. If the head space is too long, the case stretches above the belt in part because the WM is fairly straight walled round which under pressure helps prevent the case from sliding rearward. That's why when you blow out cartridges (like the JDJ rounds) you seat the bullet into the lands so the case head is firmly against the breech forcing the majority of the stretching to occur at the shoulder. Excessive headspace in an Encore can cause problems, but it's unclear how it would have caused the OP's issues as blown cases don't cause the pistol grip to break.

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Originally Posted by The OP from a different forum


I need to ask my gun expert and lawyer for a definite part failure list. The Gun stock for sure broke! I know what parts appeared to be damaged and what caused it to open. But I don’t know if I can say that particular part failed.


10 years of trial, and you haven't acquainted yourself with what exactly on the gun failed, the gun which may have contributed to the loss of an eye and the gun that caused you to doggedly sue a firearm manufacturer for a decade?

Why is this turning into a joke?


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