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I think "focus on my load" is sig line material. Yep
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I don't care who won the case or what the attorneys argued. They did that for their own reasons. I would be interested in the truth and facts, something that is unobtainable apparently. There is no such thing as truth and facts. Truth is always dependent upon perspective and facts are always interpreted according to that perspective. That is reality. For instance. Is a gun that will open up, but only under excess pressure defective? Who can say? Some would say, that a gun that will open up at all before completely blowing up is defective. Some would say that it isn't the gun but the load. Who is right? Mostly a matter of opinion I would guess. After all, a somewhat excessive load is foreseeable as that even factory ammunition makers sometimes make mistakes. On the other hand, how can a firearms manufacturer be responsible for someone making a bomb instead of a cartridge? "Truth? What is truth?"
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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There is no such thing as truth and facts. Truth is always dependent upon perspective and facts are always interpreted according to that perspective. That is reality.
What BS is that? Facts interpreted according to perspective... Sounds like words used to try and convince juries they don't need all the information.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't care who won the case or what the attorneys argued. They did that for their own reasons. I would be interested in the truth and facts, something that is unobtainable apparently. There is no such thing as truth and facts. Truth is always dependent upon perspective and facts are always interpreted according to that perspective. That is reality. For instance. Is a gun that will open up, but only under excess pressure defective? Who can say? Some would say, that a gun that will open up at all before completely blowing up is defective. Some would say that it isn't the gun but the load. Who is right? Mostly a matter of opinion I would guess. After all, a somewhat excessive load is foreseeable as that even factory ammunition makers sometimes make mistakes. On the other hand, how can a firearms manufacturer be responsible for someone making a bomb instead of a cartridge? "Truth? What is truth?" If you ever want to know what it looks or sounds like when an attorney had run out of rope and lost an argument, this is it.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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[/i][i]I don't care who won the case or what the attorneys argued. They did that for their own reasons. I would be interested in the truth and facts, something that is unobtainable apparently. There is no such thing as truth and facts. Truth is always dependent upon perspective and facts are always interpreted according to that perspective. That is reality. For instance. Is a gun that will open up, but only under excess pressure defective? Who can say? Some would say, that a gun that will open up at all before completely blowing up is defective. Some would say that it isn't the gun but the load. Who is right? Mostly a matter of opinion I would guess. After all, a somewhat excessive load is foreseeable as that even factory ammunition makers sometimes make mistakes. On the other hand, how can a firearms manufacturer be responsible for someone making a bomb instead of a cartridge?
"Truth? What is truth?" If you ever want to know what it looks or sounds like when an attorney had run out of rope and lost an argument, this is it. No schatt.... [i]laffin ...and please wipe your feet before exiting the court room!
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Wow just wow!
This was/is meant for joe.Just wow
Last edited by plainsman456; 05/29/15.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I don't care who won the case or what the attorneys argued. They did that for their own reasons. I would be interested in the truth and facts, something that is unobtainable apparently. There is no such thing as truth and facts. Truth is always dependent upon perspective and facts are always interpreted according to that perspective. That is reality. For instance. Is a gun that will open up, but only under excess pressure defective? Who can say? Some would say, that a gun that will open up at all before completely blowing up is defective. Some would say that it isn't the gun but the load. Who is right? Mostly a matter of opinion I would guess. After all, a somewhat excessive load is foreseeable as that even factory ammunition makers sometimes make mistakes. On the other hand, how can a firearms manufacturer be responsible for someone making a bomb instead of a cartridge? "Truth? What is truth?" If you ever want to know what it looks or sounds like when an attorney had run out of rope and lost an argument, this is it. I haven't lost an argument. My point is/was proved. I merely responded to a guy who said he wanted the truth and facts. Adults realize that truth is highly subjective and that facts are malleable things. Children still live in make believe worlds of their own constructs.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I don't care who won the case or what the attorneys argued. They did that for their own reasons. I would be interested in the truth and facts, something that is unobtainable apparently. There is no such thing as truth and facts. Truth is always dependent upon perspective and facts are always interpreted according to that perspective. That is reality. For instance. Is a gun that will open up, but only under excess pressure defective? Who can say? Some would say, that a gun that will open up at all before completely blowing up is defective. Some would say that it isn't the gun but the load. Who is right? Mostly a matter of opinion I would guess. After all, a somewhat excessive load is foreseeable as that even factory ammunition makers sometimes make mistakes. On the other hand, how can a firearms manufacturer be responsible for someone making a bomb instead of a cartridge? "Truth? What is truth?" If you ever want to know what it looks or sounds like when an attorney had run out of rope and lost an argument, this is it. I haven't lost an argument. My point is/was proved. I merely responded to a guy who said he wanted the truth and facts. Adults realize that truth is highly subjective and that facts are malleable things. Children still live in make believe worlds of their own constructs. Petulance doesn't help your case, counselor.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Please, children, "Quid est veritas?"
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The truth is subjective to liars.
Q:"Were the loads over pressure" A:(Lie)"They were at max but not over" A:(truth) "I don't know they were never tested"
Facts: Load pressure equal x psi
There you have it truth and facts all in the same post.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Please, children, "Quid est veritas?"
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The truth is subjective to liars.
Q:"Were the loads over pressure" A:(Lie)"They were at max but not over" A:(truth) "I don't know they were never tested"
Facts: Load pressure equal x psi
There you have it truth and facts all in the same post. Nope, according to his data as it was understood by his expert, they were not over. Thus, truth. "I don't know, they were never tested." Also, truth because one can't be for one hundred percent certain since they weren't tested. And I'll give you another. For the kind of "truth" you claim to be after, it doesn't matter because there was absolutely no way to determine what the pressure of the actual load that was fired was. That is also the "truth".
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Please, children, "Quid est veritas?" I hate him.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The truth is subjective to liars.
Q:"Were the loads over pressure" A:(Lie)"They were at max but not over" A:(truth) "I don't know they were never tested"
Facts: Load pressure equal x psi
There you have it truth and facts all in the same post. Nope, according to his data as it was understood by his expert, they were not over. Thus, truth. "I don't know, they were never tested." Also, truth because one can't be for one hundred percent certain since they weren't tested. And I'll give you another. For the kind of "truth" you claim to be after, it doesn't matter because there was absolutely no way to determine what the pressure of the actual load that was fired was. That is also the "truth". His "expert" was disallowed, and easily. I suspect his "expert" is little more than a local gun plumber and such testimony ain't worth a helluva lot. He's asserted they were not over pressure, but his own load data puts them well over book maximum and highly compressed. I.e., he contradicted himself and had no way of knowing what pressure they were at all. T/C didn't test, and you're grasping at straws simply because you have a distinct bias against corporate defendants.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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BS he stated they were not over max, that was a flat out lie to advance his agenda, deflect, and mislead people. He knew it and everyone with a lick of common sense knows it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The truth is subjective to liars.
Q:"Were the loads over pressure" A:(Lie)"They were at max but not over" A:(truth) "I don't know they were never tested"
Facts: Load pressure equal x psi
There you have it truth and facts all in the same post. Nope, according to his data as it was understood by his expert, they were not over. Thus, truth. "I don't know, they were never tested." Also, truth because one can't be for one hundred percent certain since they weren't tested. And I'll give you another. For the kind of "truth" you claim to be after, it doesn't matter because there was absolutely no way to determine what the pressure of the actual load that was fired was. That is also the "truth". His "expert" was disallowed, and easily. I suspect his "expert" is little more than a local gun plumber and such testimony ain't worth a helluva lot. He's asserted they were not over pressure, but his own load data puts them well over book maximum and highly compressed. I.e., he contradicted himself and had no way of knowing what pressure they were at all. T/C didn't test, and you're grasping at straws simply because you have a distinct bias against corporate defendants. So, why didn't TC test? That would be a relevant question. Because you can damned well bet that if TC thought those loads were overpressure, they would have tested. Even if they didn't think the gun failed or that any failure was caused by the overpressure, they still would have beaten him over the head with it. And I'll tell you one more thing. I can guarantee you that they DIDN'T disqualify him for the reason you say. How can I say that? Because you claim that easily found load data puts them at heavily compressed and over max. Frick yeah, I would have let him put on his expert based on software data because then I could have put on my MUCH more prestigious expert who could have testified that based on an EASILY found source that the load was heavily compressed, WAY over max, and thus WAY over pressure. I could have introduced testimony that he was making bombs in his garage WITHOUT EVER taking the risk of ACTUALLY taking one of those loads apart and seeing if it was over pressure.
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Brian's Expert
My expert is a gunsmith / firearms maker / customizer. I did not ask if I could post his name online so I will not be doing so. I don’t think he or anyone would want to be a part of the bashing....IMO mainly because people can see past their preconceived notions.
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