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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,044 |
The Sig P228 rates in the top five of the best wonder nines
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2003
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Depending on intended use, personal hand fit and cost, I'd go with SIG 226, Glock 19 and/or HK VP9.
RS
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's a POS design.
People rave about the "ergonomics" of the H&K but always fail to mention that mag release. Yes it's serviceable but it is a very poor design.
Put 20 shooters on line and you'll see the problems with it. Even with guys that have a lot of time behind the pistol.
Travis I value your opinion but respectfully disagree. I agree. After 20+ years behind a Sig I switched to HK this year. I didnt switch sooner because of the mag release. After using practicing and training with it, I actually prefer it now. My wife who had 0 time on any platform also chose the HK over my other guns because of the mag release.It was the only gun that she didnt have to break her grip in order to drop a mag. Im sure everyone will have a different take but the numbers dont lie, the VP9 is well liked. As far as few more years under their belt??? I think 60+ is pretty solid.
Last edited by warpig602; 06/01/15.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,660 Likes: 1 |
Clark & Travis are just stuck in neutral & don't accept change easily...........clearly some dogs have trouble learning new tricks.  MM
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I never said I can't use it.
It's just a POS design and keeps it out of the #1 spot IMO.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
As far as few more years under their belt??? I think 60+ is pretty solid.
My bad. I didn't know that model of H&K was 60 years old. Clark
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,660 Likes: 1 |
I never said I can't use it.
It's just a POS design and keeps it out of the #1 spot IMO.
Travis So what make it a POS design? You push it, the mag falls out........... When your hand is on the grip, the thumb goes to the mag release very easily & ergonomically..........what more do you want...........it ain't gonna suck your dick for you.  MM
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
You push it, the mag falls out...........
No. That's what happens with a well designed mag release. With the H&K's you get a bunch of weak side hands coming up to get the mag free of the strong side heel. Or you get that strong side hand jigglin' and shaking trying to get it free because the shooter has to manipulate their grip so much in order to get the mag release activated. I'm sure H&K figured the whole world was built the same and it would work just dandy, but it doesn't. It's also fun to watch 5 shooters (or more) do reloads. Instead of 5 mags hitting the deck at the same time you get two....one...one...one... Do the same drill with a 1911, Glock, or M&P. Let me know what you see. Clark
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
...........it ain't gonna suck your dick for you. MM You don't know that... Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
You push it, the mag falls out...........
No. That's what happens with a well designed mag release. With the H&K's you get a bunch of weak side hands coming up to get the mag free of the strong side heel. Or you get that strong side hand jigglin' and shaking trying to get it free because the shooter has to manipulate their grip so much in order to get the mag release activated. I'm sure H&K figured the whole world was built the same and it would work just dandy, but it doesn't. It's also fun to watch 5 shooters (or more) do reloads. Instead of 5 mags hitting the deck at the same time you get two....one...one...one... Do the same drill with a 1911, Glock, or M&P. Let me know what you see. Clark You are thinking of your old P7PSP, that has the mag release at the butt. The later P7's (and the P30) have it in the trigger guard. Flip the little lever with your trigger finger, and the mag drops free. Fast easy, and ambidextrous to boot.
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2009
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You push it, the mag falls out...........
Do the same drill with a 1911, Glock, or M&P. Let me know what you see. Clark I tried but the 1911 and M&P jammed before the last round.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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As far as few more years under their belt??? I think 60+ is pretty solid.
My bad. I didn't know that model of H&K was 60 years old. Clark I think their track record hold more weight. I bet the VP9 has been in the works for at least 5 years. R&D at HK is the name of the game. No more beta testing like new Sig owners. [bleep] even the G43 isnt wihtout issues.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,660 Likes: 1 |
You push it, the mag falls out...........
No. That's what happens with a well designed mag release. With the H&K's you get a bunch of weak side hands coming up to get the mag free of the strong side heel. Or you get that strong side hand jigglin' and shaking trying to get it free because the shooter has to manipulate their grip so much in order to get the mag release activated. I'm sure H&K figured the whole world was built the same and it would work just dandy, but it doesn't. It's also fun to watch 5 shooters (or more) do reloads. Instead of 5 mags hitting the deck at the same time you get two....one...one...one... Do the same drill with a 1911, Glock, or M&P. Let me know what you see. Clark Well, I've actually shot the VP9 & that ain't the way it is. I can release the mag with my thumb w/o changing my grip, same as my Gen 4 Glocks.......with the smaller Gen 3 mag releases, I have to change my grip somewhat. And the VP9's mag falls freely as well, practically jumps outta the gun. Clark, maybe you've got 2 left thumbs or something; sometimes I just don't know about you, laddie. MM
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
You are thinking of your old P7PSP, that has the mag release at the butt. The later P7's (and the P30) have it in the trigger guard. Flip the little lever with your trigger finger, and the mag drops free. Fast easy, and ambidextrous to boot.
I am not confusing the two. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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R&D at HK is the name of the game.
That must be why the first iteration of 416's were so fuggin' stellar. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Well, I've actually shot the VP9 & that ain't the way it is.
I can release the mag with my thumb w/o changing my grip, same as my Gen 4 Glocks.......with the smaller Gen 3 mag releases, I have to change my grip somewhat.
And the VP9's mag falls freely as well, practically jumps outta the gun.
Clark, maybe you've got 2 left thumbs or something; sometimes I just don't know about you, laddie.
MM
I probably just need more exposure to that type of mag release. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921 |
I've only owned a handful of pistols chambered for the 9mm cartridge. I currently have two Smith & Wesson pistols now. The Shield and the M&P fullsize. Been really pleased with both.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,277 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,277 Likes: 2 |
In your opinion what is the best high capacity 9mm pistol? Sig P226 Tac-Ops.
Trump Won!
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,855 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
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It's a POS design.
People rave about the "ergonomics" of the H&K but always fail to mention that mag release. Yes it's serviceable but it is a very poor design.
Put 20 shooters on line and you'll see the problems with it. Even with guys that have a lot of time behind the pistol.
Travis I couldn't possibly imagine what you are talking about here Flave....
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,588
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,588 |
H&K will have to do away with that ridiculous fugging mag release, as well as get a few more years under their belt before they can go on my list.
Seriously, that mag release is a POS. Classic example of German over-thinking.
Travis Didn't think I'd like a paddle style mag release either but after using it some, it has grown on me. It also positively drops the magazine free. Not sure I have ever seen a magazine drop like the HK's.
Last edited by VAhuntr; 06/01/15.
"Never stand and take a charge...charge them too."
--- General Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA
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