Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Best bang for the buck?

First choice is a Knight KRB 50. 80 grains of Pryodex and a 495 gr No excuses bullet.
Second choice is a CVA Wolf, 70 grains Pryo and the same bullet.
Still got to work out the trajectories for various ranges, but it's coming together and I have three months from today to get it right.

Sounds good, good luck!!

I don't know how many posts i've read from old guys saying they can't use open sights anymore, and have turned to a scope. I was one of them, and that's why I have the license. When I got it I realized I couldn't use it, and I don't plan on it either. Even when hunting the ML in rifle season I don't use a scope. Using a ML is using a primitive weapon, and I accept open sights as part of it. I've used open sights all my life, and I see no reason to change because I can't see like I used to. I just get closer now.

I don't think guys are asking for an advantage by asking for a scope. The majority of states have scopes legal in ML season. If Colorado thinks they have a primitive season I can't agree. They should have two seasons. A primitive one during the rut that have to use a sidelock, open sights, and a PRB. Then a modern ML season where everything is legal. Everybody is happy, except the guys who can take 250yd shots won't be doing it during the rut.

Say what you want. Making only open sights legal favors those with good vision. Old or young. I'm going to use open sights no matter what, so i'm not saying this for my benefit.

Obviously a 45cal 300gr bullet is almost certainly going to fly better than a 50cal 300gr bullet. Assuming the ogive shape is similar.

Colorado does not allow sabots or scopes during the ML season so 45cal vs 50cal bullet ballistics dont mean much in this context. In most states a 45cal ML is perfectly legal for deer.

The new Remington Ultimate can pretty much match the Savage approved factory load data. Roughly 2300fps with either a sabot load or a few full bore projectiles. There is not a single Savage approved powder load that will go much past 2300fps with a 250gr or 300gr bullet.

5744 is a dog. BH209 can match it with a 300gr bullet.
SR4759 barely beats BH209
N110 will hit 2300fps no problem but sabots cant handle much more than that with this powder. It spikes pressure very fast.

No other powders are currently approved by Savage but there are a couple that offer a little bit more speed.

Show me one caplock that will produce 2300fps with a 250gr or 300gr bullet and the load data is approved by the manufacturer. Nearly any new modern 50cal 209 inline can hit over 2000fps with a 300gr bullet and 2100fps+ with a 250gr. A few can get another 100fps or so.

IMO it not the action so much as the ignition system and modern subs that allow an inline to shoot fast enough for a noticeable advantage over a caplock. Those speeds would be far more difficult to achieve with percussion cap limitations and only real bp. A good inline can also offer a faster lock time. The advantage may be small but its still there.

Its kind of a moot point though. A good heavy conical shooter has plenty of energy to take down big game at 200 yards with real bp. Doc White has been doing it for many years. Rainbow trajectory...yes...but it still can hit its mark with over 1000fpe at 200 yards.

You mean you have not figured out who he is yet. He has only changed his name here once or twice. He has not posted with his old alias since 12/2013

Took you long enough to figure it out. I left a endless clues. I've only had one other name, and that account got porked. I can't use it anymore.

Funny how the same guy gives me a hard time when I never started any trouble. Yes, smokepole, you sound familiar too.

Saying old guys don't have the same eyesight that did when they were young is hardly a reason to rag on someone, but it's your style.

I was not aware of that. What is it about that rifle that gets it there, as opposed to other in-lines? Most in-lines aren't designed to do that.




I don't know that there is one with approved data. Is that because the rifle can't do it, or the manufacturers aren't pushing them to the limits? Seems to me that if someone wants to see how fast he can shoot, he won't be doing it with a caplock.

What is it about a caplock that wouldn't allow you to achieve the same pressures and velocities as an in-line, with like bullets?

Agreed on the differences in ignition.

What a putz. You're right, saying "old guys don't have the same eyesight that did when they were young" is not a reason to rag on someone.

But that's not what you said. Some things never change. And some whines don't improve with age.





You left "clues?" I hadn't noticed. I wasn't looking.

I hope I never get to the point where I feel the need to sign off in a huff and then come back with a different name.

Clues meaning I wasn't trying to hide who I was. I wanted to come back, and not make any waves t see who would give me a hard time. I was curious if it was my fault last time, or others. Now I know.

As for what I said. I said old guys are screwed when forced to use open sights. I think for the most part that is true. Open sights are hard to use when you start to lose your vision. I used to be able to take shots at 150yds with open sights when I was younger. My range is now at 50yds with open sights. Some guys can't even do that. Most of my hunting friends are close to my age. If they were forced to use open sight in the rifle seasons they hunt they'd give up hunting. Muzzleloading is no different.

If you're past 65 open sights are a problem, and give the advantage to those with 20-20 vision. I made a simple statement that really didn't need to be responded too. I assumed everybody would agree. It certainly didn't call for me being told I was looking for an advantage.
You always have backup on this forum smokepole, so you probably feel what you write is fine. It isn't, and you need to step back, and look at what you say in a post. You love to argue, and try to start one every chance you get. I've read your posts for years, and i've seen it too many times. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you were the first one to start something with me this time. You were the first one with my last account too.


btw I did try to sign in on my old account many times. It wouldn't let me, and still doesn't. So, I decided to start a new account, and see how it went. All my posts have been honest and truthful. I wasn't trying to pull anything. I just wanted to see if it would be different.

Who or what is my "back-up" pray tell?





This is funny. You want to make it all about you when the fact is, under your new name, I didn't know who you were until yesterday. It's not about you, and it's not about me.

The truth is, if you say stupid things on this forum, you'll get called on it. No matter what name you post under.

Some people can handle that, some can't. Looks like you still can't, under any name.

You also said you're not looking for an advantage, yet you went to the trouble of getting a permit for a scope but then realized you "couldn't use it." Yeah, that makes sense:



That makes almost as much sense as coming back under a different name and saying you weren't trying to hide who you were. I guess it would have been too much trouble to just come out and say who you were.

You're as FOS as a Christmas turkey. I'm going to duck now, and wait for my "back-up."

It was only stupid to you. I think those with a brain know as you get older you eyesight gets worse. Nobody gets out of being old.

Even those who retain pretty good eyesight as they get older will admit it's not as good as it used to be.

Why is that hard for you to grasp?

I can point out many other examples about you, but it's not that important.

Here's a revaluation for you. It's not about you either.

Anyway, this is going nowhere. I'm done with it. PM me if you have more to say.

Dumb as a rock. Cya.

The new Remington and the older Ultimate Firearms ML use a similar large mag rifle primer breach plug and large amounts of pellets or BH209. UF only recommends pellets, 3-4 of them.

3 Triple7 mag pellets gets a 250-300gr bullet into the 2300fps range. They have even used this load at Friendship and won a national match in the hunter class.

Remington allows both pellets and BH209 but the official BH209 data is not available yet. Roughly 140gr by volume gets you over 2200fps.

Both of these rifles are overbuilt including locking lugs just like a Rem700 or 40X centerfire. The UF uses a Lothar barrel which is proofed to well over 100kpsi. 4 pellet loads can exceed 52kpsi.

Cooper Firearms of Montana just released its first muzzleloader that will also handle pretty stiff loads of BH209. Its based on their own action and a Wilson match grade barrel....Very pretty rifle too.

The way forum members keep endorsing 400 yard shooting and 2500 fps, it's just a matter of time before state agencies take the word "primitive' out of muzzleloading hunting and ban muzzleloader seasons.

Some forum members don't seem to realize they are slowly introducing more conference room discussions on such bans. Some forum members are trying to ruin this sport, so real muzzleloader hunters that abide by it's limitations and engage in the limitations, cannot partake in their muzzleloader seasons at some point in the future........ why?.... because state agencies aren't going to allow 2000+fps forever.

People!
Learn to respect this fine sport, before it's gone forever, all because a select few try pushing the envelope further and further, turning their muzzleloaders into centerfire speeds and to make matters worse, talk all day and night here about doing so, on an open forum like this one.

State agencies cannot control new technology. But they surely can control hunting regulations and endorse bans. Some members here are ruining this sport and don't have the brains to realize it.... in advance of D-Day!

Oh, good Lord...and folks wonder where the term "Fudd" originates.

Just like the compound bow was accused of ruining the sport of archery, the inline has been accused of this in regard to muzzleloaders...and it wont, and didnt, happen in either case.

At most, what will happen is that the old farts will be given their own, separate hunting classification for decrepit guns, like longbowmen and recurve archers have gotten. With that will come another season, with its own set of arcane rules...which will be pushed and bent to the ragged edge of legality, all the while the same crotchety folks whine and moan.

Like any sport with rules, those rules are exploited to the advantage of those who choose to. Some choose not to do so, and some do...neither is wrong.

LOL, where have I heard that before?

Which members are trying to ruin this sport?

In case you haven't noticed, many states allow pretty much anything as far as technology. Who are you to tell people what kind of firearm technology they should or shouldn't discuss on an open forum?

And who are you to define what a "real muzzleloader hunter" is?

Some would define that as shooting only black powder, but I'm guessing you wouldn't agree with that?

State agencies are not going to ban muzzleloader seasons based on any discussions from this forum. They're going to set their regulations based on the reasons behind their special seasons and input from their wildlife biologists and their citizens.

Thanks for the info.

im hunting NM this year which allows scopes, sabots, pellets, etc.

Im using an open sight hawken with patched round ball to keep the sport true.