Looking at a 3-9x40 for another rifle for my son. Budget is $200 going on a T3 243 hunting whitetail in mixed terrain. The Burris FFII 3-9x40 is a known good scope, that is good adjustments, good enough glass, will hold zero and can be had NIB from $135-199. The VX Freedom is an unknown to me in those three areas, will it hold Zero, adjust well enough to easily sight in (no dialing planned for elevation/windage etc) and glass quality.

The only reason I’m considering the leupold is it should have VX2 level glass and I think that might be better for dark timber or last light over a greenfield. I’d like input from those that have owned them.

The other side of me thinks the $60 I’d save with the Burris could be spent on components for loading more ammo fir my son to practice with and that would benefit him more than the slightly better glass.

Hands down the Burris...with BP.


Both would work, for sure, but there's no issue using the Burris during legal shooting light. Ive got four of them...


Gradually sold off my Leupold, though I like them too....besides, nowadays Burris has the reputation for durability...

What he said, though I could go with an ordinary duplex as well. Those seem harder to find, on sale anyway.

The plex is my preference as well and just like you said you pay more for it.

No flys on the Burris FFll for those conditions. Put an early model 06 or 07 4.5 x 14 BP on a 25.06 for whitetail in a mix of timber, bean field, corn field and pasture. It’s held up great over the years. Glass is just fine for all light conditions, always held zero. Plus the BP works very well once you know the true yardages for each tenon. The only Leupolds I own are target/varmint which work well, but not as stout as the Burris.

The biggest difference to my eye is the eyebox. The Leupold is generous, the Burris is standard. The light gathering differences are not so great that I’ve noticed but I’ve not done side by side comparison at dusk. Both have adjusted to and held zero on squirrel guns and ARs. The Burris B-plex with three dots is not as intrusive as I thought, much better than the Nikon BDC.

Had two freedoms, glass slightly better than FF2. However both did the Leupold shuffle when zeroing them to the point it was comical. I didn’t keep the Freedoms long enough to comment on durability and zero retention.

Still have 4 or 5 Burris scopes.

Don’t overlook the Burris MSR. Same optics as the FF2 or E1 but with exposed elevation turret.

I have a bunch of Burris scopes, 2-7x, 3-9x, and 4.5-14x. Never had trouble with any of them, including the one on my Weatherby. They are supposed to be stronger than other brands, with springs on both sides of the adjustment, not just one. My vote is Burris. No flies on Leupold, though.

Yeah strongly leaning towards the FFII and saving the money for powder. I KNOW I can mount it and not have to worry and that’s worth a lot. Glad to see others feel the same way.

I've not had any negative experiences with any Leupold, including the VX-Freedom. But I like the Burris FF-II better.

One American made with no question asked warranty. One made in phillipines. And u have questions about the leupold? Leupolds one phillipino product is the Redfield revenge and it is noticeably lesser quality especially in the horrible eye relief category. Burris is an old phillipino word meaning 1" eye relief.

Leupold means, keep sending it back to us, we'll repair it for free. But free definitely has its cost..

😂😂😂😂

Who buys anything made in the Philippines that you don't have to? Lol

Burris. Dumped 2 Freedoms after a season of playing “where will it land today”.

Blindly buying stuff just because it's made in America without taking into consideration its quality isn't good economy. I'm willing to pay extra, and have on many occasions, for American-made quailty, but get pretty pissed when companies wrap themselves in the flag to sell less than honest goods. I'm even willing to chase a zero around a bit as long as it stays put once set, but hate surprises. I also notice that no one seems to do any flag-waving when the discussion turns to Swarovski, Zeiss, Tikka/Sako, SWFA, etc etc. Leupold, and to some extent New Haven Winchester (but not South Carolina Winchester🤔) seem to cause most of the Patriotic outrage. Anti-China sentiment I understand, but the Phillipines?

I have the FF 3-9x40 on what is essentially my “truck”
Rifle and it’s a great scope. Has held zero, easy to get on zero, decent eye relief. The low light glass quality is my only negative. And it’s not that it’s bad, just not great. That being said it’s a solid choice for the price. Can’t speak to the Leupold Freedom.

Iv'e a couple FFII's. No complaints here. I have a buddy who was wanting to scope his 06 with something plain jane, works but not too much $$. Talked him into a FFII 3-9 with the ballistic plex off Midway for about 200 bucks. Hard to beat in my opinion.

Sport Optics has Fullfield II 3-9x40 Ballistic Plex for $135.00 last time I looked.

Yup saw that today

I 2nd this vote and also affirm the BP is terrific.

Swampokie,

Unlike many scopes made overseas for (not by) various companies. Fullfield IIs were originally manufactured in the U.S. When Burris decided to save customers money by making them in the Philippines, they provided the same tooling they used in the U.S., and trained the workers over there to use it. (The glass was already coming from Asia, as it does for Leupold) so there was no change in that.

When the switch was made, as I recall a little over a decade ago, I had several U.S.-made FFII's. I got a Philippine scope ASAP and compared them. There was NO difference in optics, adjustments, etc, and in fact the finish and smoothness of stuff like the turret-cap threads was superior on the Philppine scope.

Have been using the "foreign" FFIIs ever since with zero problems. In fact, the one FFII (out of more than a dozen) that I've owned that needed to be repaired was my LAST 3-9x40 made in the U.S.A. A couple years ago the adjustments quit working correctly. But I would say that's OK, partly because it had been on hell of lot of rifles, some pretty hard-recoiling, and partly because Burris fixed the scope and shipped it back quickly--far quicker than Leupold usually takes these days. (Yes, Burris has the same lifetime guarantee.)

I agree. Regarding most of the people to which you refer, it's like being a teenage boy. They just want to fit in. Smile and let them beat their chests. They feel better, impress no one, and the other fanboys think it's coooool.

I’m not blindly speaking or only being a homer for the leupold. I have many rifles as most of u do and leupold only top 1/3 of them. I needed a high magnification scope a couple years ago for a 7mag that I had acquired recently. My ffl was a big Burris fan and I had a Burris or two back in the old day so I found a great deal on a fullfield ll 4.5-14 and scooped it up on my ffls recommendation. The eye relief was the worst I’ve seen short of a Simmons Deerfield I once had on a 22 mag. Absolutely awful eye relief. Any thing beyond that I can’t say yes or no. The lifetime warranty was one of the reasons that I bought it and I do realize that is the same as the leupold. I traded it for a redfield REVOLUTION not revenge and it’s awesome eye relief and excellent tracking. I have never had a leupold that didn’t hold zero or give me good eye relief. Some of the old vari x compacts and smaller objective leupolds had lesser eye relief but nothing even close to the phillipino Burris. The redfield revenge phillipino had the same awful eye relief but it performed well in all other categories.

Years ago I bought a new Leupold VXI (which I think is comparable to their Freedom series today) and used it one season. It fogged up on me.
They make a big deal about non-fogging, so I sent it to them. After about two months they sent it back and said there was nothing
wrong with it and the fogging (are you ready for this) was "external fogging." Never heard of such. After the down pour ended that
fateful day, I could do nothing to wipe off the fog. It took 30 minutes for it to go away. After that, I lost faith in Leupold and
switched over to Weaver Classics V7 and V10, really great scopes. Unfortunately, Bushnell has now bought out Weaver and
are discontinuing them (really sad). Best scope I ever had though was a Colorado widefield (TV screen) Redfield. Hunted 20
years with it, in all kinds of weather--never fogged, always held zero, tough as a railroad spike. Only reason I sold it was because the
crosshairs were much too thin and hard for my aging eyes to center. This is why I got the Weavers, bolder crosshairs that I
can quickly slap on a deer's vitals.

I had 2 of those Redfield wide fields. One straight 6 power and one 3-9x whatever it was. One fogged up and the other lost zero permanently. It started shooting 5 inch groups at 100 yards. But they lasted me about 20 years each. I've never had a Leupold fog.

The Sun Don't Shine on the Same Dogs Ass Everyday ... I guess it's Burris' time in the sunshine!

g

I'm not a Leupold only fanboy. But, I have got to say this. No scope manufacturer offers the scarce combination of, very light weight, excellent eye relief, classic looks (at least more so than most) and a decent price in a scope like leupold does. If someone would like to point out to me another scope brand that has all of these characteristics in their scopes, please do. I am a "set and forget" scope user and I have had very good service out of Leupolds. Yes, I I have sometimes had to "tap the turret", when sighting in and used more ammo than I should have to, but that is the price that I am willing to pay for the combination of characteristics in a scope that I have mentioned above. I like Burris scopes, but for their models that would meet my needs, the eye relief is too short and/or the scope is heavier than I want to put on my rifle. RJ

Burris is an ole Phillipino word translating to mean 1” eye relief. Denver redfields were awesome scopes. The only drawback was the limited eye relief. There is a connection there as already pointed out

You forgot one thing. Excellent Optics for the money. For the reasons you listed and the one I just added, I am a fan boy. And let me tell you, Leupold ain't the only one I have to tap on to get it to move. You pay $1000-$1500 or more for a scope, yeah you better not have to tap on it to make it move, but then again, such scope doesn't enter into this criteria. If I want to spend twice the price of a rifle for a sighting system then I'll agree with you. But while I'm on a retirement income, I'll just stick with Leupold.

I was, for decades, and have never had an issue other than the evasive zero, but then none of mine really had that many rounds on them or were mounted on heavy kickers, except a ML scope on a lightweight Knight .50, which was pretty "lively". None were dialed in use either. The last three I acquired were a VX2 3-9, a VX5HD 2-10, and a VX3i 3.5-10. The VX2 was typically flaky while zeroing. I only put a few rounds on it before moving it to another rifle I gave away. The VX3i worked perfectly for 100 rounds or so, then was sold after I sold the rifle it was on. The VX5-HD remains, mounted on my Fieldcraft, and is easily the nicest scope I've ever owned, in pretty much every way, and it was free, courtesy of a CameraLand drawing. I really hope it holds up, but if it goes South, I'll probably replace it with an SHV of the same magnification, which costs about the same and has a better reputation for reliability.

You're right about the Leupold "features", but once I started trying some other brands, I found that the generally shorter eye-relief wasn't as much of an issue as I thought. The adjustments on Burris FF and E1s have worked perfectly, though they can feel a bit mushy, as have a couple of Weavers, and four "Chinese junk" Hawkes. None of them have failed in any way either, and none cost anywhere near as much as even the VX-2, many actually about half on sale. Meanwhile, a number of reliable, knowledgeable users here, who generally do a lot more shooting than I, have reported multiple failures, out of the box or soon after, of current-model Leupolds, and also of getting less than stellar service on them. I think a bit of eye-relief, and maybe a little optical performance is a pretty good trade for a good chunk of cash and especially, rock-solid reliability. I'd go back to buying Leupolds in a heartbeat if they would address the crappy erector issue, but they totally deny its existence.

FWIW, I just picked up two very nice Leupold M8s, a 4x and a 6, and plan to put them on a pair of FN .270s, where I expect them to shine, once I get them wobbled into zero. I paid more for each of them than any of the Burris scopes I have, but still less than my last VX2.

I know what you're saying Pappy. I have one Hawke, a 2x10x50 Endurance model. While the adjustments and glass are good, eye relief excellent, I do not like the large black donut around the image it has, which, I believe is called "tunnel vision" and after mounting it on a rifle with it's 20+ ounce weight, not counting the scope rings, it screwed up the balance so bad on that rifle that I removed it and never put it on another rifle. Of course the 50mm obj did not help, having to use higher rings, so no more 50mm's for me. I will probably not ever use a scope heavier than 17 ounces on a light weight rifle, ( which includes all of my rifles). And I only go 17 ounces to include the Meopta Meopro scopes, because they check all of the other boxes for me. I actually prefer my scopes under 14 ounces, but for rifles that I want an illuminated dot reticle scope on, I have to bump up a couple of ounces,
And those favorable characteristics in a scope that I like so much, you will be hard pressed to find a scope, still in production, that checks all of those boxes, (especially the weight box), regardless of how much it costs.
I know, I am just an old man that likes what he likes. But, that is my story and I'm sticking to it. RJ

I'm so scoped up now it might be years before I buy another, unless something craps. Still, Rifles Happen, usually followed by scopes😜

Here in Romania, a firearms licensed individual is only permitted to posses 15 firearms. When you are at the limit, you have to sell one to get another one, (which is a hassle in itself). That is the only thing that has slowed me down. RJ

Here in America u can have 2 children until u get divorced then the judge gives them and ur check to the ex. It’s a repetitive vicious cycle but it’s similar nonetheless. U have to sell ur guns to c ur children. It’s what holds all good dads back.

Swampokie, I was born and raised in the U.S.A. I lived there until about 6 and a half years ago. And yes, what you said above is a true story. RJ

About this "external fogging..."

I once made the error of keeping my rifle in an air conditioned camper with me overnight, and ran the AC hard enough to keep it at about 67*F. I left the camper with rifle slung the next morning as the sun was peeping over the horizon. It was about 80*F that morning and muggy as can be. I hadn't walked a quarter mile when I saw a coyote out in the wheat field, maybe 200 yards out. I had him dead to rights. When I raised the rifle to aim, my scope was entirely fogged up and I couldn't have hit him from fifteen feet away. This was about four years ago.

I don't know external fogging can be avoided except that I believe (am I mistaken?) I have heard of coatings that are reputed to do just that. I can't imagine that it's 100% effective, though.

Oh, yeah...the scope this happened to? It was a VX-3 or VX-3i.

I go FFII everytime I don't go NF, Bush, SS for a dialing scope, specifically the 3x9's. They are about as great a set and forget scope as it gets and the BP reticle is pretty workable with most cartridges with a little math work.. They are rock solid for me..

I never buy a new scope, but when I do it is never Leupold.

I have around 70 Leupolds and have never had one fail.

I sent a couple of 1960's vintage Vari-X scopes back to be cleaned and recharged and I sent several in to have the reticles changed to the heavy duplex style before the price for a reticle change was no longer a good value. I don't care for the "tactical" look of the Feedom series, but that is aesthetics, not mechanics.

With that many scopes how many rounds do you get in under each one?

I've had two Leupolds bad from the factory, one replaced, the other fixed.
No problems after that.
Had about 20 of em, new and used over the years.
Once zeroed they stayed.
Yeah, tappit tap at the bench. PITA.
But I expect it running varmint cartridges. Just not enough jolt to make things move like they're supposed to.

I need a gloss 3-9X or something for a Ruger #1.
Looking at used prices, for 40 yr old scopes w friction adjust..............no thanks.
I'll slap a new one on and call it good.
Hell, maybe even a POS Redfield Revolution.
Had over a half doz of those, they worked fine. Adjusted in without tappity tap......but the 1/4 inch clicks were a little more in one direction on a couple.

Older rifles IMHO don't look right with the large eyebell stuff.
And yeah, looks are important to some degree.

If I had to run a target rig, twist dials..........I'd proly look at a diff brand.
For poking holes in deer or chucks, Leupolds work OK for me.
But, my shooting is 400 yds or less.

If I was playing the long D game I might need something else.

I do the exact same thing!

405wcf

I keep around 100 rifles in the racks that are zeroed and ready to shoot, so none of the centerfire rifle get shot much unless it is a pdog rifle. I have eight 6.5-20x40 Leupolds on pdog rifles that each have between 3,500 and 8,000 rounds fired, chambered in 204, 223 (x2), 22-250, 25 WSSM (x2), and 260 (x2). The Leupold with the most rounds fired is an old Vari-X II 2-7x28, SN 1118XX, that has been on a Ruger 10/22 since the mid-1990's with at least 15,000 rounds fired.

The other Leupolds are mostly Vari-X IIc, VX-I/II, and VX-1/2 series scopes. The oldest Leupold that I currently have mounted on a rifle is a 4x Pioneer, SN 96XX, on a pre-'64 Winchester 70 that is there for aesthetic, rather than mechanical, qualities.

Don’t sweat the 3x9 Burris FFII, great eye relief and very good optics for what that scope costs. I wouldn’t be scared to have one on a properly fitted 375.

I still use quite a few Leupold 6x36’s and I’ll give them props, their slotted adjustments work like they are supposed to and stay put on everything I’ve had one on.

The FFII with the BP Is darned good though, doesn’t weigh much and it adjusts as its supposed to. Something I cannot say about the last 5-6 Leupold variables I’ve had, including three of their excellent 2-12 VX6’s.

I've actually looked through a Burris FFII and I had a Leupold VX1 and now own a Redfield Revolution, but compared to my
Weaver Classic V10. the latter is hands down better glass than the former. It's Japanese glass, and I'm amused by guys who
think just because something is made in America it's inherently better. Japanese pick-up trucks disproved that point decades ago.
The real distinction is stuff from Red China. Their scopes are no where as good as the scopes made in the Phillipines or Japan.
By the way, the only scope that ever fogged up on me was a Leupold; sent it back, and they still didn't fix the problem.

I have a Weaver Classic V10, 2-10x38, that came on a rifle that I took in trade. I really wanted to like it, but I can't stand the tunnel vision aspect of that scope such that I would only recommend it to someone who I particularly didn't like. Another case of different people with different experiences forming conflicting opinions about the same product.

I agree that the quality of Chinese optics is lagging well behind Japan, the Philippines, and Korea, although I have to admit that the Chinese knock-off of a Leupold 2-7x33 that I have on a Ruger 10/22 has held its zero through around 2,000 rounds fired.

I have a number of Leupold scopes, mostly VX-3's, and they have worked well for me, although occasionally they require extra shots to zero because the adjustments are not always consistent.

However, most of my recent scopes have been Burris FFII's with ballistic plex. I am quite happy with them as they hold zero, have consistent adjustments and have decent glass for a relatively low price.

Well I made a deal on a 3-12 Burris signature select within my $200 budget. I was going to go FFII but this was a great deal imo. Upgrading my oldest son from a compact Ruger American to a full size Tikka T3.

Thanks for all the replies.

The Burris Signature Select is another league from the FFII.

Good job, I have a 3-10x40 Burris Signature Select and really like it, they are great scopes.

This^^^^^^

You will get that tunneling effect if your scope (Weaver V10) is set too far forward. Try moving it back a little. I had the same problem until
I moved it. Got rid of most of it. I will take a little tunnel in return for better clarity, which, as I said, to me anyway, is better than most of the
scopes in the $200 price range. The Weaver Classic's reticles are bolder and it's really helped me getting on deer quicker.

I bought a 3-9X duplex Freedom 40mm for a yote AR.
The new look seems to match the ugly rifle.
Might get to the range today, storms done.

Have had two other Freedoms, both zeroed in just fine, held zero (but they were on .22rf).
Did not care for the EFR 3-9X I had. The eyepiece made it look wrong on sporters, and there was a distortion ring around outside edge of image........maybe due to objective lens being so recessed?

My reg 3-9X view looks fine.