So maybe this is a dumb question, but what is the niche use for a fixed-power 6x scope? I totally get why someone would want a fixed 3x or 4x for hunting purposes but a 6x just seems odd to me. Too powerful for close shots, yet easily surpassed by a decent variable power for longer shots. What gives?

If you practice with both eyes open using a 6x at close ranges isn't difficult.

How close is too close? I had no problems with my first straight 6x deer at 44 steps.

What is a longer shot? With an appropriate rifle I can ring 1 MOA steel at 300 yards no problem.

Have used a fixed 6x on running game as close as 10 yards, and on standing game at 500. Never felt hampered either way. As a result, there's no dinking with the magnification ring, which I have seen cost quite a few hunters a good opportunity in the field--including some I've guided.

Uunlike the typical FFP variable's reticle, a fixed 6x's reticle is always the same size compared to the target, you can not only use it to aim higher on longer shots, but as an approximate rangefinder--without the scope ever being on the "wrong power." (That is, you can use it as a rangefinder IF you know how, and the method is sometimes more reliable than a laser rangefinder.)

Easy answer, at least for where I hunt in the Southeast. For dawn and dusk deer hunting I've found nothing better than a fixed 6x from a stand. Never a worry about distance. I can see things better, and make a more accurate shot placement, in lower light, than with anything else.

How do you know a 6x is "too powerful" for close shots? Have you used a 6x for 500 yard shots?

I'm not drawn to all 6X scopes, but the 6x42 Leupold has shown a lot of real advantages for a hunting rifle. The eye-relief is substantial and very forgiving. It is a bright, lightweight, and durable scope. I've shot running targets at less than 10 paces and hammered an elk at 573 yards. In both cases I don't believe a different scope would have made either shot "easier." I use all kinds of scopes, but most of my serious big game hunting rifles wear 6x42 Leupold scopes.

Thanks, guys. I've never used one and just figured it would be annoying at any distance 50 yards or closer but apparently I'm wrong.

I use variable power scopes and like them fine, but I generally set the power ring at six power and go hunting. It's for that reason that I use straight six's a lot. They are generally lighter than most variables, I like that too. I have several Leupold 6x's that have the hold over dots but have only needed to use them twice in the last 10 years to make a kill.

I had a Weaver k-6 on a .222 that I killed many woodchucks and crows with. Was adequate out to 250 - 275 yards or so. Beyond that I could have used more x's, particularly on crows. Made my longest shot ever on a deer at 440 yards with that same 6x Weaver mounted on a .243. Most of my scopes nowdays are variables and they're usually set at 4x during deer season and 8x -10x in the summer for shooting varmints. When hunting thick cover I've found 6 or even 4x to be too much sometimes so my favorite woods rifle wears a 1-4x20. The wide field of view on low power can be very beneficial when a running buck is weaving through trees, brush and blowdowns at very close range, particularly if it's a crossing shot rather than going or coming.

You may not be wrong for your hunting conditions. I find a lot of variance in what individuals on this forum consider heavy cover. I have hunted in Colorado a few times and Wyoming once and I can tell you that what they consider heavy cover in the areas I hunted is much more open than what we find in the South and East on some of these Laurel thicket covered ridges and mountains or the swamps in the South. Take what you read as honest advise from the posters perspective and his hunting conditions.

All of that said I can use a 6x scope fine in 90% of the hunting I do here in Virginia even in the woodlots and timber. Give one a try and see if it works for you, if not they are an easy sell.

All depends on what you're going to use it for.

I think they suck for a coyote calling scope.....got the t-shirt, sold the scope......

Good close in, enough power to shoot torso size targets out to 1K, good FOV, good low light performance (6x42 or similar).

What's not to like?

I’ve found 6x to be a wonderful “KISS” option which does it all well enough even tho there may be a few things it doesn’t do well.

My thoughts as well. They work excellent in the Northeast and the open west. Shooting with both eyes open they aren’t much problem. The only time I like lower power is on driven deer but even then, good old irons work for me.

I’ve killed less plain old 6x’s in general as well.

From 10 to 600 yards, I haven't had an issue with a fixed 6X. I really like them and have gone almost completely to them, save a few random oddballs like a 10X and some 2.5Xs. I think I have one variable left, a VXII 1-4x20.

I like fixed powers because I have never, ever had a variable keep POI when shooting at different powers, among other issues. The only variable I have any desire to try at this point in my life is a S&B PMII. Other than that I plan to stay with my fixed 6Xs.

I have gravitated away from the 6x because my aging eyes need the help of 8x and 10x. But the 6x is a KISS benefit others here have already stated.

It takes a licking and still keeps ticking

Less fiddling. More reliable. Less glass between you and the target means a brighter scope for the same or less money.

simplicity

Damn fine Leupold n the classifieds with the long range duplex (6x42j)

For me a 6x scope made sense when I did not have one. I was glassing several deer in a field in Michigan about 25 years ago and identified a buck among does about ten minutes before end of shooting time. When I put my rifle on them I could not see the antlers with the 4x32 scope (Zeiss with T coatings). Since I hunt in the woods and at dawn and dusk, I have to have a scope that is 6x or is capable of 6x. I don't take running shots so eye relief and detail in low light or shade are more important to me than field of view. I have taken deer at 25 yards with a 6x42 but last fall I took a buck at less than 25 yards (moving but not running) with a variable set to 6x. There was no time to change power anyway which is just as well because the temptation in a variable to mess with the power setting has caused me issues on occasion. I like the Meopta MeoPro 6x42.

the fact is there really isn't a draw except a few campfire geezers that spout off about it. The fixed power crowd is way and I mean way overplayed. I just saw discussion about ziess not making the 4x fixed conquest anymore and how much whining and belly aching there was about it. Yet I saw a guy selling 2 fixed 4x scopes, one of which was a zeiss conquest Right on our very own classifieds here at reasonable prices go multiple days without it being bought. The fixed power crowd is non sense. its not 1972 anymore!!!

Easy to look thru, easy to kill with. They just work. Some will never like them, that’s fine they are lots of options.

I’ve got both Leupold and SWFA 6x42’s. I shipped a hunting buddy a spare SWFA 6x for a new rifle a few years back. He never returned it, instead shipped me a new one after he had killed his first deer dialing his scope. I never thought he would go for a 6x, we talked about over the years. But Using is different from talking about it....

For my use, a 4X is about as high as I'll go for a fixed power. I even have one on a Savage 99 in .243. There's not a lot of places where I hunt to need much more for deer, but If I found a good 6X for the right price I sure wouldn't turn it down.

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Sounds like some guys like Dodge while others fight over Chevy and Ford....just like they do with optics.

Aside from mounting one in a fancy C-clamp have you actually spent time behind one? My wife and I bought a pair of them (SWFA 6x) last year and have been running the [bleep] out of them out to 860 and recently out to 1000 yards.. $600 for a PAIR of scopes that pass the Tall Target Test and RTZ with flying colors and good solid clicks.. I'm new to twisting turrets but the cost and quality of these scopes is a pretty big attraction, to disagree seems foolish..

I like less than 6x for close in work and higher power for long range. However it is a good place to set a variable for general carry.
Sure it would be fine for most situations, but I like my main hunting scope more versatile than just adequate.
3-15x for me.

That's what I have on my 22-250 coyote rig, although I typically do not need 15x.

Summed up very nicely in a single word.

I guess it's a bit like hunting with a single shot. I have an old mate who simply can't understand why I hunt with a Ruger No.1 or a fixed power scope. He's too set in his ways. He's convinced that a 6x scope is not as effective and poo poos it, but he's never bothered to try one in his whole life. But very quick to voice his 'expert' opinion. He couldn't believe that I'd spend over AU $500 on a 6x Meopta. He reckons for that money I should have got a variable as you 'get more for your money'.

I'm not sure why this myth of shooting game up close with a 6x still exists. I've shot game (mostly pigs) at 15m with 6x scopes, or variables set on 6x, and have had no problems finding animals in the scope. I guess people hear it and pass the myth on without having actually tried it themselves.

I like the simplicity of fixed power scopes and have two on a couple of No.1s, a 6x on a 7x57 and a 4x on a 9.3x62, plus a few more on some bolt guns.

The simple things in life are often the best.

I just put one on my 6.5 CM last weekend. It just barely fit in the low rings that came with the rifle 25 years ago with a gap maybe a millimetre between objective and barrel. A set of medium rings worked much better. The 6x36 Leupold would have fit in the low rings. I'm looking forward to hunting with it this season.

I have shot deer real close and out to 430 yards, with a 6x SS. I killed an elk at 346 with one. I have them on three rifles and 10x on most of the others. It is about a wash, between the 6x and 10x, but you don't spend your time screwing with the power ring. I only have a couple of variables left.

As to the "too close" issue, I use one on a 22 mag to shoot squirrels in the head at
close to point blank out to 75 yards. Not the 22 model scope either.
And as Mule Deer stated, no dinking around.

fwit longest shot I have made was at 300+ with a fixed 4 in a RL 308

I too subscribe to the KISS principle. The fewer features and gadgets on a scope the better I like it. In truth how many, aside from the fellas who insist on playing with their scopes at every whim/opportunity, ever budge the magnification ring from a fixed position? I know I don't. I doubt my 3-9's have left the 6x position in years- I don't for the life of me know why I spent the extra money for those variable scopes.

Like we've done with the cars and trucks we drive, the more bells and whistles the better. Technological progress seems to measured in gimmickry, it would seem.

I use mostly 3x9x40. I the woods it stays on 3X and in fields and cut overs it stays on 6X most of the time. I could get by with a straight 6X but I prefer the 3X in the thick woods.

JCon- what has been missed in this conversation is a little scope history.

For a long time fixed power scopes were largely enjoyed for their relative brightness. Fixed have fewer lenses so apart from making the scope comparatively robust, the fewer lenses meant less light was reflected (meaning more got through). The popularity of your typical 6x42 came about because it meant that you had an exit pupil of 7mm. That equates to a beam of light wider than your pupil so (more or less) you eliminated that narrow tire ring effect you might get from using a higher power. Very easy to throw up a rifle and get a good picture without having to move your head around..

All my scopes were 6x for this reason and thinking I might more easily judge distances no matter which rifle I used. 6x never 'seemed ' much of a hindrance to me for close shots though looking back there were two particular instances where it was definitely so.

Fast forward some years and more players entered the scope market. Competition created better and brighter scopes with better warranties. More of them started offering fully multicoated lenses and standardized features like click adjustments. Things that in the past required going to higher priced model lines to get. Scopes are now where low price point variable models allow one to hunt even in questionable light.

I still have a 6x on a rifle and enjoy it but my others have gone away. I compared some good newer variables in darkening conditions to my 6x standard bearers and find them, to my surprise, even brighter. Now, sure a new fixed might be brighter still but it won' t allow me to legally shoot more deer -so I no longer see the edge.

Different places have different needs but when I go in to the field now I am always on 2x or 3x and feel like a world of better views have been gifted to me. I can say with certainty that a moving deer is (nearly) always easier to track and view at these lower powers. So while >6x is what crosses the mind when most people think about variables, for me and I assume many others, it is at least equally the 2 or 3x wide field view- which coincidentally is often the first features discussed when looking at binoculars. Being able to dial up to 9 or 10x for range work is icing on the cake. .

I likely have a wider variety 6x scopes anyone else on this forum simply because I like them. I would guess I have 12-15 different models. Some of the reasons I like them is because they cost less usually, have less parts inside, and have cleaner optics. Take the Meopta Meopro, if you take their 3-9 and set it at 6x, then compare that to their fixed 6, the fixed will look better due to less stuff in the tube. The fixed is cheaper, and that's about where my variable will be in the woods, so why have the variable. They are usually rather bombproof too.

What got me into the fixed six was I noticed all of my variable scopes when I went hunting were in the 5-6x range, always. The only time I went over 6x was the range. I have never had any problems killing deer inside 25 yards or out in the 300s. I don't shoot past 300 yards simply because stalking is more fun than killing IMHO, I like the chase and the sneak. A fixed six to me is the definition of a K.I.S.S. scope.

Elvis,

The "myth" of 6x being too much magnification for close range developed in the early days of hunting scopes--when it actually tended to be true. Early hunting scopes (say made before WWII), tended to have small diameter tubes AND small diameter ocular (viewing) lenses. Since the diameter of the ocular is one of the major factors in field of view, many early 6x and even 4x scopes had very narrow fields of view.

But today's 6x scopes have large tubes AND ocular lens, and a FOV at 100 yards of 18-22 feet. This means that at 25 yards the FOV is around 5 feet, and the average deer is around 4-5 feet long. Even at 10 yards a 6x FOV is around two feet, and anybody who's halfway competent at pointing a scoped hunting rifle can easily recognize the front half of a deer in a 2-foot FOV, even if it's a little fuzzy.

The closest running shot I've made with 6x was a BIG Texas feral boar. I could easily see the shoulder and a foot or so around it in the scope, and the bullet went through both shoulders. The boar flipped over and lay still, facing back in the direction it had come from.

A short paragraph with no substance or proven experience. Actually little more than Yahoo clickbait....







And yet so close is one that has both....


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/scopes-that-do-it-all/

I guess you're just better than I am, and yes, I shoot with both eyes open. I prefer variables and have 1-4X, 2-7X and 3-9X scopes on my hunting rifles. They stay on the lowest setting virtually all of the time and I've made kills past 200 yards on 2X. I prefer the variables not for the higher magnification but because 1X, 2X, and 3X fixed powers aren't common. Even 4X is more than I've ever needed.

I've been burned twice in situations where I've cranked the scope up to maximum power in order to attempt a longish shot only to have game jump out of brush at ranges between 10-15 yards. On the 1st one I was never able to get it in my sights. The 2nd time I was able to make the shot, but almost blew an easy shot.

That said, I picked up one of the SWFA fixed 6X scopes last summer for a non-hunting rifle and have come to appreciate it. I've shot it out to 600 yards and managed 3/4 MOA. That has convinced me that 6X is plenty of magnification for anything I'll do. And if I were to hunt with it I don't think it would be as much a disadvantage as I previously thought.

But in my experience, in the places where I hunt I'd still prefer less magnification for an awful lot of the shots I take. The biggest advantage of the fixed 6X is that you get an awful lot of scope for about 1/2 the cost of the SWFA 3-9X42 variable. And for a lot of people I suppose the added cost just isn't justified.

I've hunted the west. If I did the majority of my hunting there I might feel different, but in the world where I hunt you almost never see the entire animal and rarely past 50 yards. Just parts of it as it moves through the brush and there will be several seconds at a time where you don't see it at all only to have it reappear 20-30 yards from where you last saw it. A bigger field of view is more helpful magnification more often than not.

An honest question and after reading and watching the hype on the 6X scope glass, I set out to answer it myself. A couple thousand dollars later and practical experience in the field my conclusion was, to each his own and a thought, why not a fixed 5X.

To each his own works for me as long as there is a choice. Zeiss, Swarovski and Kahles no longer offer 6x42 scopes. Leupold discontinued the 6x36.

For myself the question of what will be available in the near future is moot. I have what will be for me a lifetime supply of Meopta MeoPro 6x42's. I also have a few variables that I mess with from time to time but the Meopta 6x42 always finds its way back on my rifles.

Roundoak, you pot stirrer.......you want one for that 99A saddle gun??? Love that gun by the way.

My go to 99F in 300 Savage wears a Leupold M8 6X and as mentioned by plenty above. Covers shots from 20 yards to 300 pretty well for my 99.

Jim,

Blasphemy, I say, blasphemy.

I have tried to like the 6x scopes,but to me they are either too much or not enough. In the thickets of Alabama 25 yards can be a long shot and I know from experience that less magnification and more field of view is a good thing. I can make 4x work but 3x is even better. On true brush guns,the scopes that are about 1x at the bottom and 5x at the top are hard to beat.

In open country where you can see for 200 yards or more,I want more than 6x. It's just easier for me.

I know my views are in the minority in this particular thread,but in the marketplace most folks must see it about like I do,at least that's how they spend their money.

Fixed power scopes are almost an endangered species,not nearly as many out there now. This is especially true in lower magnifications. To me,fixed power scopes in lower magnifications are useful in guns with a lot of recoil. There aren't really that many choices for a Dangerous Game Rifle anymore.

Any rifle I use for hunting has either a Leupold 6x36, 6x42, or a Leupold variable 2.5-8x36. I rarely touch the variable scope's magnification ring in the field, preferring to leave it set on 8X. I can't see a lot of practical difference in 6X or 8X for game shooting, but I don't take long shots over 400 yards for which 6X is plenty adequate. I'll not criticize another's choice of scope magnification, but hope that they have a reasonable amount of experience with fixed 6x scopes before they preach a blanket condemnation of them.

As for a close shot handicap from too much scope magnification, I recall many years ago using a fixed 6x Herter's scope (don't know who made those) on a .270 for a shot of around five to seven yards on a whitetail buck. Got the buck, but 6x was too much magnification.

I bought quite a few years back, mostly because they were less expensive than similar quality variables and I typically keep my variables around 6x when hunting. I bought two 6X S&Bs for about half the price of their entry level variables. Bought a 8x56 Swarovski and saved about $500. The 8x may be a bit much but I typically use if for "high seat" hunting, no so much spot and stalk.

Let's all just buy this and call it good.

https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/meostar-r1-1-5-6x42-rd-635/

I’m no 6x expert. I’ve owned a mere handful, and they all left for 1-4, 1.5-6, 2-7, 3-9, etc variables, that cover my bases far better.

FWIW:
Just because you CAN throw a fixed 6x up and find a running critter, it doesn’t mean it’s anywhere near as good as everything with less Xs....especially if there’s thick cover involved. Just because you CAN use a fixed 6x to 500+, doesn’t mean it’s as good for that as everything with more Xs. It’s still a compromise on many scenarios.

They excel in a specific window of weight, distance, obsessing over simple, etc. They DO have potential for less light loss, due to lenses....but I rarely noticed it on the handful I’ve tried, and even when you could, it wasn’t unachievable in a variable of some sort...that I could see. Outside of that, a good variable of a suitable range, is much less of a compromise.

Nothing ‘wrong’ with liking what they do. Saying they do it better than a variable (all else equal), is debatable.

I don't think anyone said "they are better" than a variable for general hunting but mechanically they are...fewer moving parts, weigh less, fewer internal lens ( = brighter when comparing apples to apples). I use mostly variables these days, cranked down when boots on the ground, 6-7x when stand hunting.

The 6X42 Leupold is a fairly bright scope, great for the sort of low light situations that you find during the one-half hour before official sunrise and one-half hour after official sunset.

I have a couple of rifles set up with Leupold QR mounts so that I can swap a 6x42 with a heavy duplex reticle onto them for first/last light hunting situations.

Exit pupil.

I shot a crow off a fence post once from 220 yards with an iron sighted Ruger MKII Target. One shot, one dead crow. I also killed a deer at 314 yards with an iron sighted Winchester.30-30. Same deal, one shot, one dead deer. That doesn't mean an iron sighted .22 pistol is the best thing for 200+ yard shots on crows or an iron sighted .30-30 is the best thing for 300+ yard shots at deer. No more so than some jazbo killing a running deer weaving through the brush at 10 yards with a 6x scope means that's the best tool for the job.

That shot at 314 yards with a 30-30 was irresponsible and I don't care who you are nor that you made the shot.

Said it a million times, put a MQ reticle and SWFA guts in a Leupold 6x42 body and theyd sell like hot cakes.

Was it ? Gee that's too bad. That deer is long dead now and I ate it. Now hold on for the real bad news. I had already killed an even half dozen with as many shots between 200 and 250 yards with that same rifle. They're all long dead now too. The hillside I shot those deer off of was right behind my best friends house. We spent an awful lot of rounds busting rocks and woodchucks on that hillside with our deer rifles over the summer and I was pretty confident I could make those shots.

A 6x42 is like being an owl

I have killed several deer at less than 20 yds with 4-12 Burris FF II set on 12. It ain't tough if you are familiar with the weapon. Yes, you just get a scope full of hair if you aim at the body. But if you point the scope at the antler, you can follow the antler down to the base of the skull and pull the trigger on the second vertebrae.

No, I would not pick 12x on purpose for the shot. But if that is where the scope is set, I will find the target and pull the trigger rather than fumble finger around with power adjustments.

I can not think of any hunting situation where a 6x32 or preferably in my case a 6x42 would not serve me admirably. I killed a truck load of game and gophers with a 30-06 and a Weaver 2.5-7x32. That scope lived on 7X.

Years ago Weaver set out to find the perfect all-around fixed power scope. They reportedly did a lot of research and experimentation. Their conclusion came down to a 4.75 power scope was the best all-around power for a rifle scope used for hunting. This was the Weaver Grand Slam 4.75x40. Anytime I see one used I buy it if it is priced around $150. They are one hell of a value in a scope, good optics, and reliable. I can't tell the difference between a 4 power and the 4.75 power. No clue why they did not sell like hotcakes, but they didn't.

"The 4.75x40mm is the only fixed power scope in the Grand Slam line. It comes in matte black only with a Dual-X reticle. Weaver considers 4.75 to be the optimum magnification for an all-around fixed power scope. Sometimes simpler is better, and the 4.75 Grand Slam should be even more rugged and offer even better optical quality than the Grand Slam variable power models. It should be entirely suitable for use on all-around rifles chambered for such cartridges as the .260 Remington, .270 Winchester, 7mm-08, .280 Remington, .308 Winchester, .30-06, and 8x57JS."

https://www.chuckhawks.com/weaver_grand_slam_scopes.htm

The Weaver 4.75 was too long and too heavy for what it was

Fits my short action model 70 quite well!

Despite my liking for fixed 6x scopes I just bought another Z3 3-9x36 yesterday.

I fell asleep on the lounge last night and woke up after 11:00pm. I made the mistake of checking a classified online site while still a bit half asleep.

Curse those credit cards.

I had hunted big game with a variety of different variable power rifle scopes for my entire life. I’d also hunted small game with straight 4 power scopes on .22 rifles & had thought and read about the pros & cons of fixed power scopes for big game.
In 2012 at 51 years of age I found myself working in Angola, Africa and I promptly booked a plains game safari in the beautiful Kalahari Desert of Botswana. I hunted with a custom Mauser chambered in 30.06 wearing a Schmidt & Bender 6x42 that was owned by my PH, the late, great Jason Bridger of Kanana Safaris. Long story short, 10 days and 23 animals later I was a huge fan of the straight 6 and I soon collected a few Leupold 6x42’s of my own.
Sure, I have the high power, long range, dial for distance, high end optics on certain rifles like many do nowadays. But the simple fact is that in many and probably most hunting situations the advantage goes to the straight 6. It’s quick and uncomplicated and as previously stated will easily cover most hunting situations from close up to 300 yards ish.
If you try it you will probably like it!

A fellow who I hunted with for years used nothing but 6x on all of his rifles - from 25-06 to 35 Whelen. He swore by them and never had a problem hitting his target from hand shaking range to “way out yonder”.
Personally, I’m a 4x guy and wish there were more of them available. Unfortunately, marketing has all of the millennial shooters believing that it’s impossible to hit anything beyond 50 yds with a 4x so, the fixed 4x is pretty much a thing of the past.😢

I like my 1-4x20 the best.

On the lowest setting, you can see the Whole World as soon as you shoulder the rifle.
And then turn it up to 4 if you have time.

Or set it on two and a half for a more open area.

I look at what I want to hit, shoulder the rifle, and the 6x scope is pretty much right on it.

LOL, what kind of shoehorn would you need for that??

I don’t own a fixed power and never will.

I’m old enough to be a curmudgeon. I can’t believe the emphasis on high magnification for hunting rifles. I suppose there is some justification for that for the folks who can competently engage in long-range “hunting,” but most of us don’t shoot past 300 yards or so.

I haven't shot game at 500 with one, but enough steel to know that they work at that distance. I was pronghorn hunting once and belly-crawled to the top of a rise and the buck I was after was out at about 800 yds. I had my variable scope cranked all the way up to 14. I ranged a fence post at 500 and he was grazing toward me so I dialed the scope for 500 and waited. Long story short, he must have seen me peeking over the rise and made a beeline directly to me, at a fast walk. I was so focused on dialing the elevation down that I forgot about the magnification, left it at 14.

I was down below the rise waiting, and when he finally topped out and came close enough that I could see his neck for a shot he just about filled the scope, and it wasn't the best situation, felt like I was wobbling all over the place. Shot him at 50-60 yards, a 6X would have worked fine for both the 500 and the 60. And yes, not forgetting to dial the scope down would have worked too.

A young guy in our deer club has a 5-25x scope on his deer rifle. And like a lot of young people these days he won't listen to advice. Bush craft and stalking skills are disappearing.

I have a 6x42 S&B and took a moose at 267 yardswith a BLR.
I had it for sale on the fire and elsewhere.
After reading comments like these I’ll keep it until I get manic again for another scope to try out!

You should put a 6x scope on your grouse gun and get back to me on how effective you found it. I bet you wouldn't find many 6x scopes on the guns of the guys running deer with dogs down South and I know you won't find them on the rifles of the guys driving deer in the cedar swamps and regenerating clear cuts here.

Be practical.

Exactly what a 6x scope is not for the hunting situations I described above.

Your edit of the post I responded to causes an inaccurate representation of the conversation.

You responded while I was adding to it. I figured your response was only to the first sentence.

Yeah, but that's not how it reads now.

I can see where you're going regarding driven game, close in.

Well you can change it if you want to but I think most here will be able to figure it out when I said your response was only to the first sentence and I was adding the rest when you posted your response. Drive hunting thick cover is a popular and widely practiced deer hunting method here. One I have participated in a great deal over the years. In fact, my brothers and I and a few friends had a drive day just last season. Trust me when I say NOBODY showed up with a 6x scope on their rifle. All of them have decades of experienced driving deer in thick cover and all had low power variables set to the lowest power with the exception of my youngest brother who had a fixed 2.5 x scope on his .

I think the question was, what's the draw of a 6X scope.

Not, does the 6X work for your specific conditions.

There have been several who said they hadn't found a 6x lacking in any hunting situation from 10 yards to 500. I merely pointed out that it's not the best choice in all situations.

I have a Burris Signature 6x scope on a Weatherby Vanguard 270 Winchester. I hunt deer in the thick Maine woods. I still hunt or just post up ( find a spot and wait).

The "draw" ? To me is that it is the max magnification for strong sight picture, with controllable steadiness/wiggle. Also, I just like to try something different to find how the "pros vs cons" list wind up. It's called experimenting and playing.

It (6x) has enough effective/ usable field of view for short range, enough magnification to pick a spot through an opening between trees, and is able to be held steady in a sitting slinged position. I don't shoot at running deer. 6x is effective, bright, and gives no handicap for my hunting style. I like it.

I also have other fixed power scopes that are used: Weaver K1.5x and 2.5x, 3x, Lyman AA 2.75x, Leupold 3x and 4x. All work fine.

I have fixed 8x and 10x scopes too. While they WOULD work, I feel 8x pushes against the "woods range usefulness" magnification level and is more than I need or want. 6x is nice, and works fine for woods hunting.-but I do PREFER 3 - 4x fixed power scopes for that hunting (less wiggle).

Yes, I do use binocs for target ID. (Doctor Optics 8x30 porro prism.)

Exactly.......familiarity.

I assume you do understand that your rifle "wiggles" just as much when you are shooting with a 2X scope as it does when you shoulder a rifle with a 14X scope. The difference is only that you can see the "wiggle" easier at higher magnification.

Oh my gosh. I am rolling on the floor here.

You would not believe how many blue grouse I have killed with that aforementioned 30-06 and Weaver V7. It might as well have been a straight 7 because it never got turned down. Put the crosshair on the neck and pull the trigger.

I'm talking ruffed grouse on the wing idiot. Now I'll roll on the floor for awhile. You should put down the bong and get rid of that can of paint chips.

It always amazes me how many people do not understand that a higher power scope only allows them to see what their rifle actually does all the time. I have had some extended conversations with some on just this matter. The previous post was not really intended for one who does understand the concept.

delete

My choice of a 6x is made easier in that I don't take running shots.

I did participate in hunting driven deer for several years in Forest County, PA. The drivers marched through the woods shouting, yelling and banging on pans. You don't need to do that to drive deer. If you just move through the woods without fireworks and light shows, you will drive deer. The deer that these guys drove just shifted into warp speed. You just saw dark shapes running full bore through the woods. You could not tell which were bucks, if any, and which bucks were legal. The choice of scope did not matter as I just cradled my rifle and watched the pretty deer charge by at light speed. I tried a red dot one year but it was no good with detail in low light and shade.

I made a closer acquaintance with one of these driven deer. I was on a stand in a valley when I heard this extremely loud thrashing and snapping on the other side of the hill. I thought to myself ,"Is there an elephant loose in Forest county? It must be a very large deer, maybe a good buck" I positioned myself for a shot if it came down the hill towards me. Then the source appeared and came running down the hill. It was a button buck, scared out of its wits, whatever wits button bucks have, with its head down, eyes wide, tongue lolling-heading right for me in terror. It stopped right behind me within arms reach, head cocked and ears up. I turned my head and said, "hi, there" Off it went again, panic-stricken.

It took me longer than it should have to find a different place to hunt.

I've killed dozens of deer on the run. It's really not terribly difficult. Actually not much harder to me than killing rabbits on the run with a shotgun and easier than running rabbits with a .22. A 6x scope is a hindrance on fast moving targets at close range. Particularly if there's intervening brush and trees they're weaving through. If 6x scopes were really the bee's knee's for close range shots at moving targets, every military/police entry team would have them on their SBR's. We've never done the noisy, hoot and holler drives. Nor do we march through the woods at high speed banging on trees and kicking brush. We use the wind to take the drivers scent to the deer and keep it from our standers as much as possible. Our drivers still hunt toward the standers and many times kill deer themselves. None of that matters when the deer realize they're being pinched by multiple hunters and go into panic mode. Then if you want to kill them you need to be able to take them on the run. I once rolled three running flat out, crossing right to left, in what was probably less than two seconds with a Remington 760 carbine .30-06 topped with a Weaver K-1.5 with post and crosshair.

Every scope is a trade off on something. Fixed vs variable, ffp vs sfp, parallax, thick/thin reticle, exit pupil, weight.....you can point out pro's and con's on all of them. Weight your options and make your choice.....in the end (assuming mechanical and optical reliability is there) the user's preference on the details is the biggest draw to any scope. Like the 6x?....then use the 6x. Don't like the 6x?....then don't use the 6x.

The optics forum....where a preference/opinion on something only the user has to be pleased with is turned into a Democratic primary debate.....

Amazing isn't it? A few years back the sun rose and set on Leupold 6x42's on the campfire. Some of the commentary from the usual culprits is just laughable.

Now see here! There'll BE no reasoned discourse on this forum! I'm gonna PM SYSOP right now, and get you banned!

And just to say the unsaid... could it be that our eyes are evolving as we... um... become ever more, "seasoned" shooters/hunters? Perhaps all the scopes we've loved over the years, might not work the same for us now, as they did back in the day. Heaven forbid we ever have to admit to changing what's working for us in the present.

I'll be the first to admit that, while I still many not crave higher X's in a scope, I do appreciate larger target dots when at the range these days...

FC

The center of the center is the center.

There is the possibility of more visual feedback increasing the amplitude of the wiggle.

That's obvious. And when you have an animal in the crosshairs and you perceive that the crosshairs are moving all over the place, it's more difficult to settle down and pull the trigger, that's all.

Your grouse gun for wing shooting is a scoped rifle?

You are correct, but unlikely any will.

I really like the Leopold 3x, but do find the 6x42 to be a better all round choice. Most certainly early and late.

As mentioned a couple times, used one to shoot a bedded Buck at around three big steps with no problem. Also used a 1.5-5 on 5x to shoot a Doe at barrel sticking distance that chose my point on the compass to run to. Had a 6x42 on when I happened to have a Black Bear walk by and do the same. Could have touched him with the barrel. If I would have had to shoot, I wouldn’t have shouldered the rifle, nor would have less xxxxx’s made any difference. Someone killed him when the season came in and he made 550 plus a little.

Kinda felt sorry for the big guy. One of the local farmers was keeping him in easy food, with the intent of shooting him later, and maybe he had come to think humans were OK.

Addition: However, he got tagged a couple miles away.


Less xxxx’s could be an advantage in certain situations, but if one is familiar with pointing a rifle they will be few, and they can get close enough that neither matters.

By mistake, I once sent two punkin balls after one. Didn’t work out, and I’m kinda certain a scope wouldn’t have helped.

I have hunted fixed 6X scopes for most of my hunting career, 50 years. I sight them in 2.5 inches high at 100 yards & hunt them reliably out to 400 yards. Has worked quite well for me. I have variables because the price was right, all of which are set on 6X and never move. I have never found myself in want of more power.

For shots out to 600 yards I have two rifles topped with turret scopes.

No and that's the point. Shooting running deer in heavy cover can be akin to shooting grouse on the wing. I guarantee you a 1 or 2x scope is far more effective than a 6x scope for such endeavors. I know this to be true because I've done it many times with various rifles and scopes.

Turret on a 3x Big Bore is the cat's azzz for those longer close shots....

I sent a charge of 00 buck after one by mistake one time. Worked out well for the grouse.

You had a better chance of success than I with punkin balls....along with a better chance of eating anything if successful....

You lost me when you called Idaho an idiot and told him to put down the bong. You know, when everyone else was talking about scoped rifles and you said you were talking about ruffed grouse on the wing.

I've potted a few on the ground with deer rifles. You've gotta aim for the head.

I'm not surprised. You obviously ain't too bright.

I knew it, I knew it!!!!

I thought with all those well composed slams on me that perhaps you were at least an ethical upland hunter....But NO, (a negative response) (not to be mistaken for know) you are a heathen in the uplands!!!!

I just knew (could be confused with KNOW) it.....


Addition: Bear (Not the animal Bear, that i referred to previously. He has NOTHING to do with this.) with me, I'm still trying to get a handle on this being sure what I mean (to MYSELF only) writing....

Shot a mature WT Buck at 15 yds with a 6x...........Put the chest in the FOV, 3 leaps, down for the count.......

How close are you shooting?

Think you could have pulled it off if he was an immature WT Buck???? He should have been smaller....

You're the one who brought up a "grouse gun" in a thread about rifle scopes, chief. But it's everyone else who either isn't too bright or needs to put down the bong. Got it.

Well, I don't go grouse hunting with a deer rifle, but if I'm walking through the woods and I get a chance to add one to the pot, I go for it. I will admit, I've fished for trout with worms too. Put that in your Meerschaum and smoke it.

Uncle Herman killed a horse with a knife....Since it happened at spitting distance, I just thought I would throw that in....

Addition: Took awhile for the horse to die, but die it did....Of course Unc was having his own issues at the time. But he eventually came out on the bright side....

KISS theory for me. Have used both the Leupold 6x36 and 6x42 with LR duplex. Marks line up nicely with my 270's. Both boys were started with 6's, simply to keep it simple.
I have never felt handicapped using a straight 6. From the plains of western SD, to the more timbered Black Hills.

It may be different if I hunted the thick nasty stuff down south. But if I would go on such a trip, I would probably have a variable on the rifle anyway.

When I hunt with my variables, they are typically set on 5-6 power. I can then change up or down as needed.
I have never been much of a fan or 3x or less, although I have some variable that go that low.

I had a 1-6 on my 404 Jeffery when I shot my Cape Buffalo, and it was set on 4.5. Shot was 40 yards and I had no problems.

How did you know that I prefer a pipe while walking around in my LaChameau's? Especially when in the mood to wear tweeds. However, the Brits frown on my straight billed cap....Screw em....I'll wear what pleases me....

Oops forgot...🖕🖕🖕

It's not at all hard to shoot them at close range with higher X's if they're standing still. Not even hard if they're running away from you and there's no intervening trees/bushes/brush. The problem comes when it's a crossing or angling shot and because of obstructions you can't shoot as soon as the rifle hit's your shoulder. Then the trees at 8,10 and 20 feet look huge through the too high magnification as you swing with the deer looking for an opening through which to send a bullet and suddenly it appears as if you're trying to kill that running buck at 30 yards while shooting through a picket fence 5 feet in front of you. Doesn't matter that you have both eyes open, the magnification fuucks with the depth perception through your aiming eye anyway. I can say without reservation and through much experience that it's many times easier to make that shot with a 1x scope than a 6x scope. Probably 6x easier actually.

No it's your stupid ass that couldn't keep up with the conversation nor comprehend the reason I said to try putting a 6x scope on your grouse gun. As usual you're just a great big stupid ass hole who should learn to STFU when you don't know WTF you're talking about .

Won't disagree and one of the reasons these guys use flash dots....Still, a will practiced shot can make do with a 6x....

And most of us here would be rookies compared to these boys.....

Man I love that video ! Would love to give that a try sometime. Some of the footage reminds me of some of our deer drives. If I were ever to go, I'd not be taking a rifle with a 6x scope.

Had one like that. One of my Cousins and a Nephew of Unc went a little nuts and did all the shooting...Wasn't much fun for the rest of us....

Addition: It was back in the day and he was using a Redfield Widefield Variable. Did quite well with it and certainly didn't embarrass himself....At least when it came to the shooting....

The shooters were solid. Heads down, barrel followed thru, and quick bolt work. Can’t help but think based on the numbered stands #15 that they were releasing boars and driving them towards the shooters...Makes no difference aside from a little advanced warning that “Here they come”....Still excellent shooting by good rifleman...Cool video.

PS,
Blacky you suck! Grins 😎

Beav, I also think they have Dogs on their azz, along with human drivers to keep them on the run....

Also, I have read they are like Pigeons here.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...the-scourge-of-the-autobahn-1950704.html

They take hunting and shooting very seriously, they are on a higher level.

We do not wing shoot grouse around here. Grouse are taken as targets of opportunity and used as camp meat while deer and elk hunting. Typically head shot from tree limbs at 30 yds to 100 yds.

Rifles good for "minute of deer at 50 yds" need not apply.

From 1977 up until 2012 when my last one died, I kept beagles for rabbit hunting. After a few years of shooting rabbits from in front of them with a shotgun I got bored and switched to a .22 rifle. Got pretty good at killing them on the run with the .22 after awhile. It made killing running deer with a rifle seem relatively easy in comparison.

That's because you've got them stupid grouse out there.

Delusions of Grandeur once again manifesting themselves. You and Most here would be lucky to hit 1 out of 100.

Whatever your punk ass needs to think so you can sleep well at night is fine with me. But you're still just a punk ass and It's too bad you never learned how to shoot worth a fuuck.

Rabbits????

Bud sent me this the other day. They have good Dogs....

KEYBOARD COMMANDO. On my worse day you would look like crap and you know it. You are a blowhard and have always been a blowhard. FOAD

Nice ! I miss having beagles for rabbit hunting. Gonna get another one after the old house dogs I have now pass on.

I'd compare my collection of trophies and medals taken in registered competition to yours anyday you sorry, broke down, punk ass POS.

LMFAO. trophies and medals absolutely priceless. You probably got a lot of participation trophies.

Ahoooo,

We are close to hearing someone being called a Democrap.....Wonder if it will be a Yankee or Rebel Democrap....Staying tuned....


Damn Yanks NEVER pull that one on a Reb.. PMO....

Prior to being a Reb, I lived in 2 blue states just for clarification.

Three time 4 position smallbore state champion. Set a record for highest score shot in a match by a first year competitor that broke the old record by 7 points and stood for over 15 years that I know of. Competed in the northeastern states championship where I placed 7th out of a field of 260 of the best shooters from 7 states. Whatcha got punk ass ? Until you've shot in some high level registered competition you don't even know WTF a "good shot" is. It ain't a turkey shoot at your local rod and gun. In fact my local sportsmans club banned me from their turkey shoots after awhile because they considered me a "professional shooter" and said it wasn't fair.

No, mostly it is because I do not know anyone willing to carry a shotgun along with their rifle when they are hiking in six miles with 4000 feet of elevation to go big game hunting. And I certainly never met anyone willing to make the trip with just the shotgun intent on only killing birds.

I know the difference between a blowhard and an honest poster.

Well then don't PMO or I'll call you a Carpetbagger AND Scalawag....

So in other words you've got nothing. What a surprise. Maybe you should just keep your punk ass mouth shut next time.

Laughing, even though NC is a "southern state" somehow northern liberals invaded it many moons ago.

I'd suggest "punk ass old carpetbagger".

Dang Elk, and all this time I done thought you was a born and bred here.

Alright, both fighters return to their respective corners until the bell....


In the video, did some notice they were not going light on the firepower?...

Now, now.... Leave me out, I easily find my own and don't need the help....

I have been here 25 years.

LOL he has been known to go on rants to prove a point that can't be proved. It's what happens when you are a New Yorker, the most despised people on the Planet.

Back to skipping 22 LR lead at bunnies in the dark while riding in a truck bed...It’s a lot of fun with a lightweight 10/22 with an Aimpoint on top.

Can’t say it made me a better shot on deer/elk running in timber, though...But, a semi with an extended mag sure helped me teach tons of bunnies how to do a freaky version of boogie nights dance moves as I poured lead all around them zig-zagging targets of fur.

I got a picture somewhere of my little bunny nailer, I will dig it up in a few.

😎

I think the demand for Sauer 404's went up after that show hit the air.

Semi custom Ruger action, Volquartzen guts, and carbon barrel. Fajen stock, and feather lite...😎

Says the punk ass yankee carpetbagger that can't shoot for shyt. And you're wrong. Everybody with an IQ higher than that of a root vegetable knows Jew Nerseyans and Massholes are FAR WORSE than New Yorkers.

For sure...I have a hard enough time running a door knob bolt handle...Trying to grab a knife handled Sauer?....Well, I’d suck even more.

😬😎

That damn Sun is your problem....That and arthritis....

Feel for you....We often have a problem "up here" also....However, things seem to be getting better....

Says the clown who was going to move to West Virginia. You really should talk to a professional.

Arthritis? Fortunately not afflicted with that, I have all my original joints , all my teeth and magnetic personality.

It's getting worse here, we are for all intents and purposes a blue state.

I am talking to a professional. A professional punk ass yankee carpetbagger. You still can't shoot for shyt either. I may still move to WV. Sure as hell ain't going to NC. I hear tell there's lots of punk ass yankee carpetbaggers there now and I can't stand those ass holes.

Bat, you’re a perfect example of a sandbagging, “Oh, my back hurts, and the ritis has my right thumb so sore to the touch...Then the first 4 birds get up and you turn them into down pillow stuffing...So much for being stoved up...😂😎

You can shoot your mouth quite nicely. I bet you have a Purdy mouth.

Put a 6x on your grouse gun for wingshooting. Thanks for the tip!!

Smoke, he left the part out about being blindfolded when he did this. He is an endless knowledge base.

PS when you find yourself calling multiple people "[bleep]" simultaneously, chances are good that it ain't the other people....

Damnit Shhhhh! You never know when there is a mark around....But watching those Boys, I best quit screwing around here and get in some practice....

Geesus, now I find out you're a gay old punk ass yankee carpetbagger. You sick old fuuck !

Lotta fuggin dummies. Look in the mirror for exhibit #1. You obviously still don't get what I was saying about putting a 6x scope on a grouse gun. Dummy.

Lordy......BlackShart is wound uuuuuuuuup!

Plagiarizing(that means copying content) Battue. The way you post I thought for sure you had a vagina.

How original.

Sorry about that, did not mean to get him so horned up.

I know what plagiarizing means. I'm not the one with the IQ of a carrot here. Nor am I the one devoid of shooting skills. Remember that. It might keep you from commenting on things of which you know nothing in the future.

Well I can sure rest a little easier now.

Glad I could help.

Doesn't stop you does it? Now don't get all worked up and then pick a fight with your husband.

Hey, did I ever tell you guys about Unc Herman killing a horse with a knife....Now Unc was a champeen Bullshitter....But he got it done that day.....He also had a pet Wild Turkey that he drove around with him in his Ford Bronco...As a Kid, sold broken up old fudge along the road during the depression to help the family. Said it was Goat Milk Fudge....Did I mention he was a Bullshittter extraordinaire....Ended up well known in the Quarter Horse Association and an Honorary Texas Ranger.....Gosh I miss him....Especially when I see rookie Bullshittters.....

I don't think oldelkhumper is a rookie bullshytter. He seems very experienced but just not very good at it. Kind of like with his shooting skills. Now Beaver10 is a real pro in the bullshyt arena. You can tell by those beady little, close set, weasel eyes he has.

Oh well, you boys carry on....

I still like that 1.5 X 6 Meopta.

Laffin...Blacky, you know I love you...But, putting my picture on the ceiling above your bed for your spank bank material isn’t necessary.

🖕🏾🦄😬😎

Thats a nice scope, very useful power range. I had a Swaro 1.5-6 for a very long time, it was mounted on a Rem 700 7mag GASP.

Blackheart: Gentlemen, gentlemen lets not get out of hand - I am trying to learn something here and not observe an insult fest - I am still trying to see/hear a rational, reasoned, reason to "give up" my variable power Hunting scopes (on my arsenal of Varmint and big game Rifles!)!
To date I have not read a single reason to switch!
Oh well as with so many threads here reason and rationality give way to insults, name calling and immature burp-ups.
Last scope I mounted on a new Rifle (just this week in fact!) was/is a 4 to 16 power variable type - chose this over both a fixed power 4x and two fixed power 6x scopes I have on hand.
To answer the OP question (whats the draw for 6x fixed power?) - NONE!
There are just to many reliable and more useful variable scopes out there today.
Like someone said above - it's NOT 1962 anymore.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Good one. At least you're a funny bullshytter, I'll give you that !

Almost agree and not a fan of powerful variables. Most of my stuff is 10x or 12x on the top end. I usually have them set to 6x when hunting.

For the record...I’ve always hedged my bet that Blacky can shoot, and shoot well...

Now, if I was ever to find myself hunting alongside Mr. Deliverance and he started whiff’n away on easy off hand shots...I’d have to beat him to death with the buttstock of his lever action for making me look bad...😬😎

On the flip side I'm sure you and many others here would make me look bad at extended range. Shorter range, off hand there are a few who can out shoot me. But most can't.

Well, if that video didn’t show you the possible rational and reasoned application of a low powered, fixed lightweight scope then nothing will.

Forget they are using aim points and place them in the Northwoods stillhunting. What do you think they would most likely choose? Your fat beluga 4x16 variable or perhaps something LW and fixed with a fat reticle?

Those Benoit fellows also ended up with Trijicon scopes. Wonder why they are not using your Leupold 4x16?
Answer, it wouldn’t be the best scope for the type of work they do.

I really liked the old Weaver k 1.5 and k 2.5's with post and crosshair on my woods guns. My 1- 4x20 VX-11 is just about perfect for the drives and still hunting I do but would be even better with a bit bolder reticle. A 4-16x anything would be close to useless to me.

We all have our likes and dislikes. I tend to like what the people who are experts at a given task have proven to be the best equipment for job.

Any idea what the magnification range is on those Trijicons the Benoits use ?

These threads that turn into who’s full of shît running a gun are always fun...Some members here are beyond compare in their shooting skills - just amazing men with a rifle or shotgun...Who doesn’t appreciate hunting with a guy or group of pards that can shoot? Not many of us.

Sometimes it’s easy to determine who’s got the goods and who doesn’t...But, then there’s some members who are sneakers, that could go either way...Maybe good with a weapon, maybe not.

Most of us are excellent in a certain shooting style and situation based solely on our hunting environment we grew up with. Most of us didn’t start out as young hunters traveling the USA gaining different shooting skills that are required to be successful in a certain geographical area...The latter typically came later in our lives as time, money, and opportunity presented itself.

Personally, having had the opportunity to hunt in several states with different hunting environments presented challenges for me, I had to adapt to fill my tags...

I believe it’s much easier to take a skilled hunter who’s spent most of his hunting life in thickets and dense growth plantations where hitting game on the move is the norm “Not talking about whacking an animal at a feeder” and bringing them into the vast open spaces of the West where a shot can go north of 750 yards, and he’ll probably do alright, if his gear is up to the task.

The reverse isn’t as easy, in my experience. Being a Western hunter, and facing quick shots on game moving through dense surroundings is, and was challenging...I knew my limitations.

With that said, I’ve been with old dogs who reeked of whiskey in the morning. Grumpy, broken bodied, unimpressive sorts who wanted-needed whiskey in their coffee before loading up in the truck to hunt. They’d throw on a lightweight rain jacket covering their wool shirt and step out into a downpour of coastal rain and high wind...Looking to cut tracks on elk, then heading down into the timber. Minutes, hours later....Boom...Sometimes boom, wait, boom, wait, boom...Dead bull with all rounds accounted for inside the bull with only ever an occasional loss of a shoulder...

Old, broken dudes are never discounted in my eyes hunting...I’ve seen them change by simply putting a rifle or shotgun in their hands.

😎

Thought about that when I was typing. Don’t know, however I do know that some are a relatively trim scope with an excellent highly obvious aiming point for quick use. I hunt with the guy who sent the Rabbit pic and he uses one and it is not all that huge. At least the one he has isn’t. He is better than good when things are happening quick.

And I have a large appreciation for those that consistently connect at 700. And also acknowledge there is a reason they choose gear I have little need for.

And then there are guys who really aren't good shots at all who kill game every year anyway. My long time hunting partner is one of those. Decidedly mediocre shot but he kills multiple deer every year like clockwork because he's an exceptional hunter. Another guy that lives on top of the mountain across the valley from me is the same way. I've shot with him on the range and his marksmanship skills are nothing to brag on. Go look at the antlers in his house and barn and you'll be amazed. The guy is a far gone deer hunting lunatic, has never understood the meaning of bag limits too well and has killed well over 200 bucks here in 40 some seasons of hunting. Both are better, more successful deer hunters than many of the "experts" who are top tier riflemen who you read about in magazines or on the innanet. They just don't get, seek or want the fame and notoriety for various reasons so nobody knows about them ceptin a few locals who've seen their results.

You mean everyone doesn't have a crew of six helpers that carry spotting scopes, rangefinders and wind indicators? Oh and locate game, I forgot that.

Looked like about .30 caliber bore. But the shell kinda resembled a Swede.

30-06 is pretty popular over there. They are hitting most of these boars high shoulder which makes it even more amazing. I am loving those SAUER 404 rifles but seriously doubt I would put an aim point on it though.

We all want to be good. Af far as shotguns, I’ve had the frequent opportunity to hang around some of the best. Enough to know, how mediocre I am.

Another observation, is it is rare for the best of the best to be spending much time on the internet arguing about what they know or what another doesn’t. Something for us all there?😀

I thought I saw a 7mm Mag being used. Will go back and look later.

Laffin...Tru-dat.

I making ammo right now because I shoot and miss a lot. I always feel better knowing a bucket of ammo is with me. Seeennnnd it! 😬😎

I think they are popular there as well. Perfect shot placement on a beast running 35 mph thru the woods is pretty damn impressive.

Of course an off day of hunting there would involve at least 50 boar if not more.

Neither of the exceptionally skilled hunters I told of in my previous post spends any time on internet talk forums. One doesn't even have a computer so there is that. My hunting partner has looked in on here a few times and asked me "why do you waste your time on there with those bone heads ? " I don't really know the answer to that one myself.

Yeah, lots of spine shots looked like.

I local shop had a Sauer 22 on display that was really nice. No Sauer centerfires. But an unusual Steyr Scout with forearm that folded down into a bipod, with a Z3 mounted.
I kinda like the CZ550 too.

They also miss. The misses just don't make the cut...

The box of shells on the blind was 7mm Mag. I didn't see a belt on the shells being ejected in the first scene....

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/buy-gun-guide/sauer-404-bolt-action-80025

The safety is a little different for sure. Friend has a 202 in 6.5x55 going to look at it and see what the differences are.

LOL, I get it just fine blackie, I just thought that what you said to Idaho Shooter was bullsh** and uncalled for. Your problem is, you don't know what you don't know. You have a very narrow point of view, some might say myopic. Every time a thread like this comes up, you manage to steer the discussion to what you know best, hunting whitetails in thick cover in the northeast. It's like clockwork. Well, I got a news flash for you, everyone everywhere doesn't hunt like you do. It's really common out west to shoot a grouse or two as targets of opportunity, like Idaho. said. It's not frowned upon like it is back east. Bowhunters do it as well as rifle hunters and some will bring an accurate.22 pistol along with a red dot just for that purpose.

You could mention "putting a 6X scope on your grouse gun" to Ia bunch of Idaho big game hunters and 99 out of 100 would think you'd have to be talking about a rifle, and 99% would think you were talking about shooting them on the ground or off a limb, because that's what they do.

Also because it's a totally foreign concept and they'd never seriously consider using a scoped rifle to wing shoot upland birds. And you want to say Idaho is the dummy and tell him to put down the bong.

Gosh, I know all that ya fuuckin retard, I expected in a place like this full of big, well read, well travelled 'expert' hunters that a guy from Idaho aught to know we don't normally shoot grouse with rifles here. Now goddamit I can feel my IQ dropping just talking to your dumb ass so STFU and GO AWAY.

Well said Beav, well written and pretty danged true.

Pass the 6x for still hunting or out west... I’ll take a plain old 2.5 or 4x for deer drives.

LOL, what's next blackie, "pronghorn hunting with the sweet sixteen?

Yeah, Ol Beav’ is well spoken.

SxS?

Man, you guys are tense tonight. Ya'll need some warm chocolate chip cookies and a glass of milk or sumthin'?

I would not feel bad about a 6x w AO on a .22 rimfire or nice trim Hornet

Wait until someone starts a thread: "What's the draw for a fixed 4x scope?"

Yikes.

Learned a lot in this thread. Thanks for the insight, all.

That safety design may soon cross an ocean....

Why SO?

Pardon me for talking about stuff I know about you moron.Guess you'd rather I talk out my ass like you and so many others here. Sorry but when I saw folks say stupid shyt like they've hunted a 6x from 10 to 500 yards and never found a situation where it was out of place and I know that's fuggin bullshyt I'm gonna say so. Some of you pompous fuuckin retatrds don't know as much as you think you do.

The sear or rifle is not cocked until you push the tab or safety forward. Pushing the safety forward becomes our equivalent of lifting the bolt. Therefore while walking around, the sear is not hanging on its thin edge and the firing pin spring is in a relaxed position. Also until one pushes the safety forward, there is a blocker that prevents the firing pin from hitting the primer.

Our system is the rifle is cocked at all times. With this system the rifle is only cocked when you push the safety to the fire position.

If you end up not shooting, one partially moves the safety and lifts the bolt slightly, which un-cocks the rifle.

The Blaser line of rifles use the same system.

For me it was simplicity. No fiddling with power settings.

I hunt MI swamps and farm fields. Figure 15 yards to 300 on the regular.

6x never inhibited my success.

I thought you meant an exact copy of that Sauer safety device, which IMHO is much different then most rifles on the market. If that were the only brand of rifle I owned I would acclimate to it , but having a few different brands currently the safety operation would not be as smooth. I think the Blaser safety is way better then what Sauer is offering. I do not like the protruding button in the trigger guard, IMHO a trigger guard should only contain a trigger.

I think the principle has more than a little merit when it comes to safety. Last I heard Blaser and Sauer are different divisions of the same organization.

They might be under the same holding company. I agree on the safety aspect of it , just don't like the protruding button in the trigger guard. That said I have not handled one in a long while and it was a 202 which I should have bought because of the Price < 800 and it had a McMillan stock from the factory. looking at pics the 202 has the same safety as the 404.

According to this, the trigger guard safety has been replaced with what they call the decocker....

https://www.gunmart.net/gun-reviews/firearms/rifles/sauer-404

It is not like he hurt my little feelers. I have been reading Blacky's vitriol for years and know his style well.

I knew full well he was talking shotgun when he wrote "grouse gun". And I was grinning ear to ear when I wrote my response about the '06.

Actually, I have a few folks on ignore, because what they write is typically boorish and distasteful. Occasionally I will peak, out of boredom. Blackie is one of those people. And I was damned bored. I spent seven hours sitting at my desk waiting for three trucks to unload.

So yeah yesterday, out of boredom, I peaked at Blacky's prose. And I, admittedly, poked the hornet's nest. And I got to laugh at the predictable ensueing mayhem.

Sorry!

Actually, on the topic of the OP. If the shooting is not fit for a 6X scope or better, I will be using aperture sights.

Well dang Idaho, it's looks like you hooked a double,......

Yes my apologies to you and thanks for your support.

I'm tempted ... just because.

Because it will cover everything from whitetails in the AR/MO thickets to pronghorn on the WY sage flats to black bear on POW Island, without extra movable internals and power rings to screw with when you should be watching terrain for animals and places to not put your feet down!!!

Because I've done it for 40 years.

Keeping the thread on topic. (Even Turkeys on the wing)

More than a few times I’ve had 20-30 Turkeys take off and glide over me. And it wasn’t all that hard to get one centered in a 6. If it would have been safe, one would have died.

Then I could have sat down on a log, loosened my tie, pulled out my Meerschaum and enjoyed a puff. 🤔

Suggestion only, do as you see fit: When you are fly fishing in Scotland, I would suggest you not use the M80’s that work so well in Colorado.

What's the draw for M80's, you might ask? Well, simplicity is one. Fewer moving parts, no need for blasting caps, you just light and throw. Also, they work on everything from half-pound sunfish to 30-lb. Northerns. And they work both up close and far away, you're only limited by how far you can throw 'em. If you tape 'em to a rock, you can hit your targets waaay out there or way down deep. What's not to like?.

You convinced me. Unlike some here who are inflexible and set in their ways, I’m willing to adapt. Like I mentioned previously, if the experts use something specific, then I’m willing to give it consideration.

Thanks for the advice.

You going to fish in a kilt? And I would suggest one of those leather shoulder bags. You can stuff them with a weeks supply of M80’s and still have room for a couple pints of Scotch.

Addition: I have to admit, that was one of your best. 😉🖕🖕🖕🖕

Crank telephones don't draw quite the audience though......

Next time you're so bored' you could get off your lazy dead ass and help unload a truck.

IIRC - He's likely thousands of miles away from the trucks. Owns the company. Average unload time for van freight is around 160 mins right now, I believe. Haven't checked SONAR lately.

Regardless he could have just kept quiet as his post contributed nothing to the discussion and was never intended to . Smokespoles didn't either but then I've never actually seen him contribute anything useful or insightful to any conversation about hunting or shooting.

That's not surprising. You're one of those rare individuals, no one can tell you anything you don't already know.

Mainly it's because it would require useful knowledge of the subject and you don't have any.

Your reading comprehension is as limited as your personality. I do unload them, as soon as they hit my dock, and then I reload them. But it is tough to do when they are somewhere in the city 60 miles away.

Average time on my dock is 25 minutes for combination unload and reload. Our lunch and breaks come when the dock is clear. Trucks might wait on other trucks. They do not wait on me or my crew.

I'm just dang glad BH ain't movin to North Carolina. We don't need another cussing, know it all, bitter yankee down here.

It does appear someone's little feelers did get hurt.

Come on Blacky. Share the laugh. Take it like a man.

You said... "I spent seven hours sitting at my desk waiting for three trucks to unload". Makes it sound as if you sat there for seven hours waiting for someone to unload three trucks. If you wished to express yourself more clearly you might have put it more like this......... " I spent seven hours sitting at my desk waiting for three trucks to arrive so I could unload them"..... My comprehension isn't as poor as your communication skills.

Not true blackie!! I have useful knowledge on many subjects. Why, here's some valuable advice I gave on this very thread:

Along with Mauser.

Lol - indeed. My point was.......the large buck I shot, filled up more of the scope at 15 yds, and it worked fine. Nothing but deer hide was in the scope, but it centered the front shoulder........no handicap using a 6x close in, on deer, if not running, IME.

Certainly not a serious reply. Should have sent in the smiley. 😀

When it comes to shooting/guns and hunting you'd do well to STFU and listen rather than trying to give advice.

LOL, I do a lot of listening blackie, a lot more than I post. I just don't put up with your bullsh*t, and there ain't anything I can learn from a one-trick pony like you.

I grew up hunting the eastern woods and thickets for whitetails. It was fun but it ain't the holy grail.

Well now shyt for brains I do have more experience than most here killing whitetails. Quite possibly more than anyone else in this thread with over 200 kills to my credit with rifle, shotgun, bow, muzzleloader and handgun. When I talk about deer hunting, I know of what I speak. Perhaps with 2 years behind the counter of a retail gun shop, 4 years general gunsmithing, 7 years building custom 1911's, 4 years shooting competitively and 42 years of reloading experience under my belt, I might know a thing or two about guns and how to use them too. Like I said, you'd be best off to just STFU and take notes rather than giving advice you insignificant little piece of shyt.

Have you seen the first pic posted of a deer he killed, a rifle or any kind of firearm he owns or one of his pretend shooting trophies? He is a Fraud and not worthy of anyone paying him any attention. Yet he has idiots following him. I have him on permanent ignore, I am not wrestling with a pig.

His deranged personality is the east coast version of Stick except Stick actually does more in one day then he BH has done in his entire miserable existence.


Another thread ruined by a Jackass.

Sometime after you've spent 11 years earning a living building and repairing guns, you might be able to teach me something. Until then highly doubtful. I'm never not amazed at hobbyists who think they know more than the pro's. I bet you think you know more about automobiles than your mechanic and more about medicine than your doctor's too.

When you talk about whitetail deer hunting in the northeastern US. That's what you know and that's why you steer every thread toward that narrow perspective. BFD, and congratulations. It ain't all about you, and how you hunt.

Go back, search the entire internet, and try to find anything you can where I've expounded on whitetail deer hunting in the northeast, or offered advice on it. It's not all that interesting to me.

Definitely a lot of places, and game, that are looked upon as destinations and quarry of desire.
Sure the 6x makes for an effective and lightweight pack rifle option in the mountains for ungulates.
But I'd gather that most who build rifles specifically for dangerous game in Africa or Alaska are mounting something different, with a lower magnification than a fixed 6 offers.
And more than a few desert, plains, and mountain hunters likely prefer the option of a few more x's.

No doubt about it. Any tool you can name that's versatile and can be used in a lot of different situations won't be ideal for applications at each end of the spectrum.

A 6x is probably ideal for a lightweight backpack hunting rifle where longer shots are the norm.
Certainly a beautifully simplistic tool.

Well said.

On an all-purpose big game rifle a 6x will do everything it needs to do “well enough” even if a relatively few things perfectly.

Life is about trade offs.

The fact that this Gen Xer can run counter to Cumminscowboy makes it almost perfect. Icing on the cake...

I didn't steer it that way at all. Others here posted that they'd used a fixed 6 for everything from 500 yards to running game at 10 yards and never found it lacking. I simply pointed out that it wasn't a good choice for running game at close range in cover, which I know very well to be fact. There are better choices for still hunting, tracking and driving in heavy cover.

Maybe the joy of a fixed 6X........its about the limit for most folks offhand?
If hunting open country .............why not?

Binos of 8 or 10X, don't need lots of scope mag.

I've shot movers in thick stuff w fixed 4x.
Like a little less mag.

2-7X hard to beat IMHO.

Buddy put a 6X on his BLR .243 for yotes.
Said he doesn't like it as he calls em in close, in timber.
Too much according to him.
Fields he likes it.

Lots of people love a 3-9X.
They are useful.

But some folks will be at 9X when a buck jumps up close.

A fixed 6X is what it is, what it will always be, and is right in the middle.

Like somebody else said, everything is a compromise.
Bet some folks can use a fixed 6 over a wider range of applications than others.

Some are gonna flub it no matter what they have.

Personally, I think a fixed 6x of some brands/models is just a nice looking scope.
And yeah, some rifles are prettier than others.

I aint into ugly chicks that can cook either.

No one uses a fixed 6x around here that I’ve personally seen. Usually it’s a 3-9 ,4-12 ,fixed 4x ,or simply an iron sighted 30-30 lever action. An extremely high number of deer here are killed less than 100 yards away. A bunch of those are less than 50 yards as there is so much woodland and thickets.

All of these were shot with 6x42 scopes except for one and it was a variable set on 6x. All were moving except one. All but one were in woods. A 6x will work in most situations. Yes, if you want to shoot driven or dogged deer that are hauling tail I think a lower power with wide field of view will be better...but to me, that's a specific application. I really don't care to use a scope below 4x in the woods due to it being harder to pick up small limbs and twigs when threading needles......I don't care much for more than 6x in the woods because the view seems to tight. 6x is just right for me and I prefer 6x for all around. The view is always the same, the reticle is always the same, the eye relief is always the same, the exit pupil is always the same.....I'm not arguing against variables, but a 6x scope has a lot of draws to it for me.



This one was at about 6 steps from me when I shot him.



This was a variable set on 6x.

A straight 6 may not be the "best" for every hunting situation, but their inherent reliability (Leupy 6x42s and SWFAs at least) more than makes up for what they lack in magnification versatility, IMO.

I don't see myself straying from fixed powers any time soon. I've been burned too many times with variables taking a dump on me.

I’ve a few 6x42s to try out. Leupold, Swaro and Meopta.

As to running shots, two I recall running flat out. Dumped one around 200 yds, first shot with a Nikon 4x32 ProStaff on a 7BR Model 7. Another around 90 yds using a 4x32 B&L Balfor compact on a M70 7-08 20” synthetic carbine. I admit the second I led too far on the first shot in timber and missed. Dropped on 2nd shot.

4x have a lot of utility as well.

On the 2-7 comment. Yes, they cover a lot of ground for many presentations on game for many hunters.

Obviously if you shot those running deer at 90 and 200 yards they were not in heavy cover nor close and a 6x would have worked fine.

Looking at the MeoPro 6X, the the 3-9 in the same lineup is actually $100 cheaper. The weight differential between fixed 6 and 3-9 tiny. So basically it seems you are paying $100 more for a s one with less functionality. I can’t really see going for the fixed 6 with this sort of comparison.

Maybe it’s different with other lineups but the MeoPro seemed a good benchmark for a comparison to a guy who only uses variables.

In looking at JCMCUBIC's fourth picture down from the top I note again that everyones perspective as to what is "woods" and "thick cover" varies greatly from region to region and person to person. That picture is what we would call "open woods" here where I hunt, and a mature deer would not be seen in such a place in the daylight unless he was run out of a thicket.

I would hunt with a 6x fixed scope and feel fine doing it, but I don't shoot running deer. Heck, my brother screws his up to 9x when he gets on a stand so he can see the deer good and he has never shot a deer farther than 75yds. and in most places he hunts you can't see 50yds, again he don't shoot running deer.

The SS 6x was hell on squirrels this weekend. Love the AO, inverted German 4 makes finding them a breeze plus I like the dot in the center rather the a crosshair.

6x42: Thinking back, 20-30 feet....never considered, there would be an issue....He came over the crest looking high and didn't know I was right below him. I'm not going to argue it, but he never blinked when the safety was let off.....

Nice line-up of Bucks....Congrats!!!!

Some have mentioned better reliability with the fixed. As for functionality how often will you use 4vs5, 5vs6, 8vs9? The’re there, but from here they don’t add significant functionality and perhaps less reliability.

I don’t need 9 for load workup, nor 3 for close. Although admittedly I really like a straight 3x20, and if everything was going to be real close, I would chose it first. It’s downside is it fads out early and late.

The Leupold 6x42 is an excellent low light scope.

I’ll take the 6 and not fret the $100.

Personally I've had more fixed power scopes utterly fail over the years than variables . Crosshairs broke in 2, erector started rotating in another, ocular lens popped loose in another. I've only had two variables that suddenly started wandering/throwing shots all over the place. I only have a couple fixed power scopes left and probably won't be buying anymore. My bolt action rifles all wear 3-9's and 2-7's these days and my levers wear a fixed 2.5, a 1-4 and a 2-7. Most of the variables get set on 4x for most of the deer season and will only get turned down when entering very thick cover while still hunting or on a drive. The ones that get used for varmint hunting will get set at 7 or 8x and re zero'd with varmint loads for that.

I didn’t know you hunted thick cover.

I had a Dot fall off the crosshairs of one fixed 4x. Cousin was commenting on his opinion that my choice of scopes was crazy, when a Doe came down the side hill and bedded close to the bottom. About 150 yards and facing away.

I said put the Dot on her shoulder neck junction and shoot. Her head just went to the ground.

When we finished up, I looked thru the scope and the crosshairs were still there, but the dot was gone.

Blackheart,

While we've agreed on some points over the years, you apparently started using fixed scopes back in the Middle Ages--when not many scopes of ANY kind were all that reliable. Or you bought cheap scopes, or you don't shoot nearly as much as you claim to. (I do remember the post you made on "western" big game rifles, where you claimed to know a lot about the because you'd carried one once into the Bitterroot Mountains during a summer hike."

Also, you apparently rarely shoot rifles with much more recoil than the .308. If you had, and used a wider variety of scopes, you'd know that GOOD fixed-power scopes hold up better than equal-quality variables.

This isn't to say that some of today's variables aren't very tough. They are--but I sincerely doubt you've ever tried one.

Just give me a 3-9 or 3.5-10. I like the lower setting for its wide field of view and the versatility of cranking it up as you need it. Variables are a lot more reliable now days.

Yes, I'll admit that all of the fixed power scopes that have failed me were older scopes and I figure I did get my moneys worth out of them. I still have and use some scopes from back in the 60's, 70's and 80's today. And you're right that I don't shoot many rounds with heavy recoil. There's simply no need to here. The hardest recoiling rifles I own or have ever owned are .308's and .30-06's and those don't get a whole lot of rounds put through them. Never claimed to know much about Western hunting because I carried a rifle on a hike in the Bitterroots once. Your memory is faulty there and it's not the first time it has been. No sweat. Mine isn't always the best either.

Yeah, you claimed to know something about western hunting because of your hike. It would be pretty easy to find the thread/post, if you insist on denying it.

But thanks for admitting your experience with fixed scopes is dated. I also have some older scopes going as far back as before WWII, and all have worked well--but all have been quality scopes from that era, with names such as Lyman, Hensoldt, Noske, Zeiss, etc.

Captain Adirondack he is Mr. Barsness....grin..

The Campfire is laughing at him as you well know....

Captain Adirondack!!! Haha fuuck I just peed!!! 😆😆

Does any one make a fixed 6 LRD with illuminated dot/ reticle?

I would buy this!

I prefer fixed 4X, but have never had to shoot a big game animal over 200 yds.

Hunters I know, hunt with their variables at the lowest setting then crank up to the highest setting for longer shots or sight in. The middle powers never get used. To me, targets always look smaller if the magnification is below 3X so I prefer at least 4x even walking around.

The 90 yd shot was in a thick hardwood bottom, the first shot around 60 yds.....a 6x would not have been any better, perhaps worse, I did take that little buck down on the 2nd shot. Yes, the 200 yd shot was in an open field, and a 6x would have done fine, though the 4x worked so well, I am not sure it would have helped or been any easier. That 4x just worked. I have had a 6x on rifles for far more kills than fixed 4x's. Also used a sprinkling of variables of all sizes, some topping out at 8x, others to 24x and used the last on a 6mm BR to dump a deer about 400 yds in that same field as I made the 200 yd short. I had practiced with that combo on gongs at 415 yds at my local range, so when that shot appeared, it was almost a given as I had a solid rest and an 8 ounces set trigger, a Kepplinger on a Ruger No.1 custom.

DCB, as you likely know, Jack O'Connor did a lot of killing with 4x Leupolds.......having shot black birds at 100 yds on a 22, no doubt a deer at 4x the distance is not out of the question, though perhaps ideal. Sometimes folks do not know what they can do with certain equipment, until they give it a go. Many folks THINK they need Magnum rounds and Hubble scopes to make certain shots. Sometimes they might, but many times less does just fine as you know.

The 90 yd shot was in a thick hardwood bottom, the first shot around 60 yds.....a 6x would not have been any better, perhaps worse, I did take that little buck down on the 2nd shot. Yes, the 200 yd shot was in an open field, and a 6x would have done fine, though the 4x worked so well, I am not sure it would have helped or been any easier. That 4x just worked. I have had a 6x on rifles for far more kills than fixed 4x's. Also used a sprinkling of variables of all sizes, some topping out at 8x, others to 24x and used the last on a 6mm BR to dump a deer about 400 yds in that same field as I made the 200 yd short. I had practiced with that combo on gongs at 415 yds at my local range, so when that shot appeared, it was almost a given as I had a solid rest and an 8 ounces set trigger, a Kepplinger on a Ruger No.1 custom.

DJB, as you likely know, Jack O'Connor did a lot of killing with 4x Leupolds.......having shot black birds at 100 yds on a 22, no doubt a deer at 4x the distance is not out of the question, though perhaps ideal. Sometimes folks do not know what they can do with certain equipment, until they give it a go. Many folks THINK they need Magnum rounds and Hubble scopes to make certain shots. Sometimes they might, but many times less does just fine as you know.

I personally am anxious to get proper brass for my 30 03 and monkey around with the climbing Lyman that is attached to it.

I don't consider that "thick cover" and don't mean to note it as such.....I don't think I did? I consider it more open woods but the picture is also deceiving... It "looks" open in that picture....I took the picture for the view. 30 or so yards behind the deer is a bluff and it helps it look open with air as a background. To the left and right of the view in the pic are briars and saplings that are a pain to walk through. Behind where I'm taking the picture from is a route a tornado passed through a few years ago and large trees/tops are laying all around. There is a lot more cover than can be seen in the pic....it was a "chosen" angle for the picture.

Regarding mature deer never being seen in such a place.....deer here receive little pressure over the short 4 month season, no one around here hunts either....I don't know anyone around here that hunts more than 7 days a week.

I guess I'm just lucky to see deer there in such open woods. But I've been very lucky on that eastern bluff with western winds catching bucks cruising the bluff checking the wind for does on the top.

The old scopes I've had that failed were Weaver, Redfield and Bushnell. Go ahead and look up that Western post. I never said I knew alot about Western rifles or hunting the west. I do believe I know more about the terrain/hunting conditions in the West than most of the retards involved in that thread know about the terrain/hunting conditions here. Fact is, you've screwed up several times accusing/berating me for thing's that were incorrect. Such as, berating me for saying I don't have any use for the 17HMR when I lack any experience with it. WHEN IN FACT. I bought the first one I found for sale here back when they first came out and used it for several years on varmints and small game before disposing of it. You also jumped on me for saying I never liked the .270. Again berating me for having that opinion without having any experience with it, WHEN IN FACT, I've never owned one but have shot several. My long time hunting partner and two of my three sons all use .270's. I have been present many times to witness deer killed with the cartridge and have dressed/skinned/butchered deer killed with the cartridge. IN FACT, I have my hunting partners Tikka .270 here right now and recently test fired it after repairing it's broken stock. It shot a 1 1/4" 5 shot group centerd about 1" left at 100 yards with 130 gr Hornady factory loads. Not too bad considering it fell 18' out of a tree stand back during deer season and wears an old, outdated 3-9 Redfield Tracker.

I remember well my good buddy in Maine talking about his new neighbor. His neighbor was telling him about the law in the area concerning property rights. My buddy,Dave, a life time resident of Maine told him he was not correct. The neighbor said well that's how it is done in New York. Dave said well buddy you aren't in New York any more. So there is a story and folk can surmise from that.

I never claimed to know the laws or much of anything else in other states. Nor do I care you fuggin douchebag. Thus far I have not insulted you in any way and have ignored your insults. That is now over you pathetic ass hole so if you want to continue lets rock.

I was not trying to be critical of your hunting area or terrain, I was only pointing out that terrain and deer habits vary considerably from state to state and region to region. Obviously the area you are hunting produces some great deer.

Time and place for everything. I’d posit that everywhere a fixed 6x works, something else works at least as well, if not better.....whether a different fixed or variable. Not sure the reverse is always true. I’ve shot coyotes past 200 and 300 with a 30-30, and stuff in thick cover/moving with fixed 6x and more.....neither was the better choice, but worked and was the compromise I had in hand. Horses for courses, and such, but it’s likely the perfect answer for some questions, while not for others....just depends on the questions, I’d imagine.

BTWB

6x is great. I’ve shot crows at 450 yards flying with a 22LR pistol.

He rarely speaks of it. And then, only sparingly.

Did I ever tell you about the time I shot an Elephant in my underwear. He was in the thick and I had a 6x42. Oh wait that was Groucho.... Never mind....

No, but tell me again about how you used to be a gunsmith??

Well that would be when I apprenticed at Purdey. But I never leaned anything about rifles....Oh wait that was James Purdey the Elder....Never mind.....