Leftist colleges are gonna hate this documentary....

Yeah, but how you gonna get laid at a (non-existent) trade-school kegger party???

Trade schools a lot like college as far as not everyone is cutout for it. I was an IBEW electrician I got out of it for something with less travel. There’s pluses and minuses to it for sure. There weren’t many guys in it that grew up absent a dad. Guys that grew up with divorced parents sure, but almost all had a dad or other male role model that was active in their life. Most trades are a tough field for guys that grow up not learning how to do physical dirty work or how to work with tools.

And then there’s that too! If more woman had looked like the one in the pic above I might still be in the trades LOL.

I traded school for sex and drugs - Look at me now!

Took a 1080 he course in Electricity when I was in high school 11-12 grade, Half day at school other half learning the trade. Got out and got my degree in EE. Worth every penny of time spent.

I went to apprentice school two nights a week for 5 years, worked 10,000 hours of hands on to complete my apprenticeship.

Youd be surprised how many females went into welding. We hired a bunch right out of Hobart and Lincoln. Welders are hard to get. These seem pretty damn good at what they do.

Same here except the schooling was one day a week every other Thursday for 8 hrs. The IBEW paid for the schooling minus the books and I missed out on a days pay. Overall it was a good deal. My grandfather was a pipefitters for a major chemical manufacturer. I wound up working for the same company that my Grandpa worked for but in a non trades chemical processing role. My trades experience got me my foot in the door and credit for better starting pay and additional time off.

I could get behind Chloe.

It would be my dream job, and I'd get to end my day fulfilled.

Every day.

Someone hast to work.

You won't hear those rejections after you graduate Princeton, Yale, Harvard, USC, Stanford, Berkeley, Northwestern, etc., no matter how liberal they lean. The fraud is on all the gradates that went to "college" and didn't get distinguished from all the other plebians that also went and got their degree from a third-rate state college in some place like Iowa or Colorado.

Unlike "trade school," a university education doesn't primarily impart practical skills or knowledge. It's main function is to bestow upon the graduate a title of nobility that grants them the priviledge to be considered for a lordship or a dukedom. The Constitution in the US forbids granting of titles, so that has been the workaround ever since.

Just going to Yale doesn't qualify a graduate though, because there are all those token diversity admissions and charitable scholarships and so on, but a interviewer can look at a candidate and their resume and discern that right away and of course they need token diversity hires too so they might consider that.

The problem is, the Progressives got the idea that they could sell a plan to bring every schmuck up to the socioeconomic level the stats were showing for university graduates by 'expanding' access to higher education, beginning with the GI Bill. That massively increased the demand for 'college.' For-profit colleges popped up to grab GI Bill money while selling their graduates short on a 'diploma.' The demand for state colleges and universites caused massive growth, and the result is basically watered-down prestige and distinction. If they get their way with student-loan forgiveness and free tuition, the distortion will be even more extreme.

Some students are looking to enter a profession or career where a graduate-school degree is a requirement (doctor, lawyer, etc.), and forgoing college isn't an option. Even so, the liberal-arts colleges aren't likely to improve the employment and career outcome for someone who attends a college lacking in major prestige.

I think you mean factory welders not welder, welders.

There’s a lot of truth there. It isn’t by accident that everyone working in DC went to the same few schools and knows one another.

The other ripoff is that K-12 cost a few thousand per year per student. When the same student goes to college it cost tens of thousands per year per student. If anything the college students being adults and not needing supervision and no reason that almost everything could’ve be done online with one instructor teaching an unlimited number of students should cost less. The government has a monopoly on “education.” The government sets the degree requirements needed to enter an occupation, owns most of the colleges and universities, sets the price and then loans out the money to get the degrees while making sure that they’re about the one loan that you can take but never file bankruptcy on.

I’ve had a couple of young guys talk to me lately about becoming electricians after they’ve been doing factory work for a few years. I told them to look at the local trade schools and see if it’s what they want. Also as far as welding goes my granddaughter got a job welding trailers right out of high school and has since got a new job making $30 bucks an hour. Pretty good money for a 20 year old.

There is honest work in the trades, and there is the potential for high income. On the other hand:

Some of the trades have physical demands that many people cannot meet over a long career. One of my neighbors was a mechanic for a big commercial airline, and another one was A&P certified and worked in that trade for some time. The first one had to change careers in mid-life and switched to accounting for the last 15 years before he retired. The second went into plant management as he got older.

The trades are subject to economic cycles. A lot of them are not "recession-proof." I know guy who was a journeyman finish carpenter, but he switched to EMT>Paramedic>Firefighter after the last housing bust. He's recession proof now.

The trades come with low occupational prestige. I don't personally think less of plumbers or HVAC technicians, but our society does. The Harris Poll has been gauging "occupational prestige" since at least the 70's, and while the perception of some occupations have changed substantially, the trades have never garnered high esteem. I know welders that work in nuclear. They make more money than most doctors. Lots of tradesmen become contractors and own their own business and make a fortune. Even so, money can't buy 'class.' Just look at Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg.

Not everyone's goal for education is to "get a job." I would hope that there are some people, even a lot of people that don't make it the primary goal of their life to just hold a job and make money. Some people are fortunate to already have money, and others don't need a lot. Personally, I find no appeal at all in the politicians that sell their agenda as "job creation." I can think of a lot of things to do to keep people busy. That's not what I want out of life.

Third rate Cal Poly SLO ME from '85 that struggled with finding a career. Stanford was close...

Definitely. We have one welder who just hit 50yrs with the company. Most either move on long before that, or die. An inspector also just hit 50 yrs. Most people hit 37-40yrs here. But not in the trade they started in. Most bid into something more comfortable as they get older. A few went into management, unfortunately those folks dont last. They get rid of management when their benefits get too steep.

Agreed with that also.

It is a “low occupational prestige” career to most teens. Not many kids say that they want to be a fitter or sparky when they grow up and it’s mostly dirty physical work but when you’re 22 years old and making better pay and bennies than most college grads and without college debt while doing something that actually needs done and have a real skill set that translates to building and doing things around your home Vs just talking out your azz because you have a degree it isn’t all that hard to find a date on Friday night.

It definitely beats up your body and is not recession-proof. It’s one of the first fields to feel a recession and layoffs and travel often come with it.

Production welders vs skilled trade welders. There is a difference.

Tis the reason I didn't pursue my A&P after I left the military. A Toolmaker journeyman career was more attractive.

We used to have The Cannondale bike factory here, lots of women welders.
On one hand you could dismiss them as factory welders.

On the other, they TIG welded aluminum and titanium bike frames. Really thin
tubing some of the welds were pretty high stressed.

The ran a TIG torch in their dominant hand, a filler wire spool gun in their offhand. Kinda like MIG and oxy/acetylene simultaneously. A foot controlling the torch heat.

But, they weren't skilled or nothing!

Honestly though.
It's the only welding most could do.

Would you trust them to weld an attachment point for a safety harness up in the steel?

They "might" have the aptitude to make a good welder after the proper training...

Considering what theyre building heads to the killing fields and saves lives...id say theyre skilled.

It’s about money. Schools wanna get the most $$ per head.

I taught welding for a JuCo for 2 years.

Got to see the wizard behind the curtain.....

Bunch of BS. It’s all about money.

Ever been on a college campus where there is no construction going on? No new buildings going up?

School recruiters aren’t trying to fill trades classes.

Gotta be teachers, nurses, business majors, etc. hook em for 4 hrs or more.

Trades aren’t for everyone. No doubt. Just as academics aren’t for everyone.

But that’s the view of trades... “Johnny isnt good at chemistry, calculus, etc. Put him in a trade..”

Well, now Johnny is killing it working shutdowns, or whatever while you broke d!ck fuggers with a BS in world studies are working at Best Buy.

I know a female master plumber and electrician. She works by herself and only does VERY small residential jobs. She makes a minimum of $1,200 per day and bartends in addition.

Had a millwright friend of mine who worked at welding tank bodies at the warren tank plant before coming to work at GM as a MW apprentice. Sure as fúck wouldn't want a single-purpose welder doing a hot pierce on a gas train. YMMV...

Q did an 8000 apprenticeship as a toolmaker and ended up running the program, they could do worse

After college I went to school to become a machinist, earned an associate degree and later served a Tool & Diemaker Apprenticeship. Forty years as a journeyman Tool & Die Maker, I taught machine shop in high school and community college. The last few years after having topped out in the Tool & Die Maker payscale I was advanced to Manufacturing Engineering. My wages were in the top 1-2% nationally, so learning a trade was very rewarding, At retirement my salary was twice what my Phd. brother in law's was.

Right now I work as a ME in composites. Not one single thing I do is related to Electrical Engineering. Trades got me interested into the science of things. Never dreamed I’d be where I am today.

I’m blessed and I know it.

What does this mean?

They should have NEVER taken the Technical programs out of High School.
Welding and Machine shop are the only reasons I stayed in school and graduated.

When they took the Technical programs out of High School the took the intensives of 1/3rd of the students to stay in school.

this is only my thoughts but.
1/3rd of society are brainiac's and can work behind a desk.
1/3rd are competitive as in sports
&
1/3rd work with their hands Technician type work.

we need the brainiac's to figure stuff out
&
We need the Technical people to build the stuff the Brainiac's dream up.
I personally do not need the Sportsman types but that is just me.

I started shop in Middle School and Continued through High School and went right out of High School to a Fabrication Shop Hired practically threw my Welding Instructor in High School.
9 1/2 years of that and I became an Inspector.
Never stopped Fab'ing Steel and 32 years later I am Fab'ing Steel more than I am Inspecting because of the pay.

Bring the Tech. Programs back to High School and watch the Drop Out Rate decrease a bit because it will give 1/3rd of the Population more of a reason to stay in school.

Also My Experience with Women Welders is that they fight harder to get and keep their jobs and they are better welders than the men for the most part. That is just my experience though.

Having done both, they do not seem mutually exclusive to me.. I will be encouraging my grandkids to pick up a skill before they even consider a university education. They are both beneficial to your financial security and quality of life. Prestige is over rated; service to others is not.

I think that you overrate the brainiacs. I went to the second best university in my state MSU. I was wait listed to the best UM. It’s mostly just upper income kids pushed to go their but of average intelligence and average at best work ethic. An engineer is an engineer and tough to BS through and ditto for similar fields most everything else is BS.

Full disclosure “I have a high aptitude for learning” but am dyslexic as [bleep].

Maybe so
But
I have been self employed for the better part of my life.
I am no business man. I do not know how to find the work. It has to come to me.
I have been Fired off of many jobs not because I can not do the work but because some co worker is a better Politician than I am.
I have never been able to get in the good old boys networks to get the good high paying jobs when I work for other company's. I have always managed to make the minimum wage for the trade I am doing.
So I became self employed and starve most of the time.
Now in my 60s I am getting tired with a body that is just about wore out.
So I fabricate steel when ever I get a job that calls me and work between 3 and 6 hours a day how ever long my body will hold out and I take the far and in between Inspection jobs that come my way.

I really wish that I had more of a Business mans mentality to go out and find the work.
Most guys I know that have went out and found the work have a real hard time getting paid after they finish the projects.
I have been very fortunate in that respect. I have only had a few jobs that refuse to pay me and then I do not work for that person any more.
Jobs are getting Farther and Farther apart and the revenue to survive is getting smaller and smaller Getting wore out sucks the big one but you just learn to do things differently.

I am Dyslexic as well.
Maybe that is some of my problems with the office stuff. I just can not bring myself to sit down at a desk for hours on end and keep my sanity. I am much better working out side with my hands and forgetting everything but what I am working on.
It is almost therapy to me.

MI Tech and Kettering are way mo bedder than Moo-U.
Sorry, we can't be friends...

I give no argument that some are more skilled than others,

But you wouldn’t want your family doctor cracking open your skull either…..

we did a study that showed that going to a prestigious college , majoring in STEM, results in an average of $7K more a year in salary than those who went to the local University. It opened our eyes a bit in our hiring focus. We've hired people from Harvard, MIT, Cal Berkley and we've hired a bunch of kids from state schools. There is no discernible difference in their production or contributions.

In most cases, it cost more than $7k a semester in tuition alone to attend those colleges, so if you were getting a student loan, you were actually losing money as over time as your salary increases would balance out while you'd be paying less on student loan debt. The net result was more cash in your pocket going to Local U versus a prestigious school.

A 4 year STEM degree will pay in the range of $60-$85K a year on average right now, certainly there are outliers at both ends. I'm not focusing on anything other than STEM because who gives a phug what an Art degree pays.


That said, with that same 4 year investment, choosing the right trade you will be in that same salary range. I've been talking to my son about becoming a lineman but he doesn't seem motivated enough to do anything about it. He still wants to get a 4 year degree.

Whatever field a young man or woman chooses, they should make sure it can't be replaced by AI or robotics

I could start another thread on the admissions scam on prestigious colleges. Bottom line is our kids won't be getting into them anyways without an athletic scholarship.

The cost of education does not equate to the quality of the end product.

Liberal Arts degrees should be outlawed in the US or at the least, no student loans should be allowed for a trash degree. The first year of trade school should be free and student loans thereafter should be interest free. It would put millions of inner-city thugs to work. A hand up vs a hand out.

Up here journeyman electricians are base salary just about 100k yearly. Other trades near that as well. Add in some overtime and your over 100k no problem. Not bad when school is no hinderance or massive debt.
Nephew asked me about 18 years ago what to do, I told himElectrical. He went to trade school, worked and saved, we flipped a few houses for extra income he bought/sold improved what he lived in I think 3 times now and is not yet 40 with a net worth of 1.4 million. He’s still churning full time for a major commercial electrical contractor and with overtime earns nearly 130k. Darn those trade schools.

As a comparison his older brother of three years took the exact same route and even better doing long stints in the Arctic oil facilities for very good money. That nephew cannot save a dime, nor will work any more than he is forced to. He has zero to his name and net, and only a pension some day to look forwards to. You get what you put in as they say, trades or college. ( unless you get into government )

Osky

I could get behind that.

We developed a program with Oakland University which is somewhere up in Michigan. Never heard of the school until we started working with them. Now they graduate engineers that have experience with our processes and tools, and we hire a few of them every year. The others can find jobs in our field with our competitors or partners if they want.

The trick is whatever you choose to do, you can't coast thru it. Earn that GPA, take on those extra projects, get that internship experience - and you're going to land a high paying quality job when you graduate.

I saw what you did there with that dyslexic thing too - heh

There are several large tech companies including Google and Amazon who have done exactly the same thing in Romania and other central European countries. They help form the curriculum for what they need and then hire the graduates. Pretty much solves their on the job training learning curve.

We have a similar program with Purdue. I have two recent Purdue grads working for me now.

But its a fight to get colleges to do that. We are working with Clemson and Virginia Tech, we have state funding to support it, a request by the governor to the schools to act on it and the backing of the largest employer in the state - and those schools still won't work with us developing a curriculum. They are very particular about letting people come in and setup shop on their site I guess.

Its become so frustrating we've reached out to an NAIA school to work with us.

You haven't met my family doctor. I look forward to HER doing a prostrate exam...

I've given my wife many a prostrate exam..................... they are fun!

Prostate!?!?!?!? Not so much!

A very positive tilt could be made by forcing colleges and universities to cosign all their student loans.

I worked in a high school for 6 years as an SRO. I can attest to the loss of shop classes and the pushing of college diploma's. It's been 12 years since I retired. I certainly hope the attitude has changed. I still have not seen new lathes, mills or welders show up yet. but, we do have a community college in town and it would be possible to work a deal with them, if they would.

kwg

a friend of mine who is in education and I were talking about renting out space at a local trade school and run a for profit program where anyone interested could sign up to take these two week mini classes. I thought there would be interest to charge a couple of hundred dollars and teach classes like basic welding, plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, roofing, basic car maintenance, computer building and repair, mower maintenance - topics like that. They might be 4 - 8 classes that would be 2 hours each with hands on.

I think we ultimately decided that we'd be competing with youtube and not pull it off but I still like the idea.

Yup .... No one pushes the trades anymore and they're dying for good tradesmen out there. No one either knows about the work or wants to do that work. All the kids now want to do IT. The work is in the trades with good jobs and good pay.




You're right about the women welders. I inspect the welds here in the refinery. Most girls here are great welders. I think they take more pride in what they do because some men don't think they should be doing that work. See more and more in it all the time working with the pipefitters and boilermakers.

IIRC student aid began after Russia beat us into space.... and then it was only for students going into fields deemed critical to National security


https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/what-is-stem/

STEM comprises the following major areas of study:

Natural, physical, and life sciences, including medicine
Computer, electronics, and other technology-related disciplines
All types of engineering
Mathematics, or any field involving a heavy application of mathematical principles

That was one of the best produced short videos I have ever seen. Kudos to Chloe, Mike, and Mr. Kyosaki. And gosh Chloe is pretty!

Mike Rowe for head of education department....

When I was in middle school, we had retard inclusion in the shop class

Joan Glick, a waterhead chick. She got her hand caught between the guard on the belt sander.

Pain is a universal language even if youre barely smarter that a maple tree.

Could hear her screams over the noise of that 3-phase Powermatic planer.

Our local community college does something like that. It is not as diverse as what you are suggesting. It's mostly welding, State mandated schools and computer skills. I have done the welding class once but I want to go back an improve on my TIG skills. Unfortunately, at my age it's only for my use and not for hire. But, it's out there for others who want to jump into a second career or part time gig.

kwg

Nonsense... I've worked with a lot of female welders in a lot of different scenarios- from clean room welding exotic chemical tubing to pipefitters and all of them have been excellent welders and good workers. As an electrician I would need them to weld something in place for me at times or work with them to install a shared piece of equipment and they were always professional and their work was better than most guys who call themselves welders in shops...

Started with Pop in the concrete business as forced child labor, one brother a lawyer, the other a doctor (neither wanted anything whatsoever to do with the family concern). I stayed in the business and got the college diploma cause everyone in the family said you had to have it these days (early 70s).

Younger brother (lawyer) went to work as a prosecutor for the IRS, he retired after 30, was always mad that I made more money than him, (no balls, no blue chips) has a comfortable retirement. Older brother (Dr.) is a millionaire and I am thankful everyday I am not him.

His first house in Memphis, he wanted a privacy fence put up, but thought the local contractors were too expensive. He called and asked me if I could get the material and come put one up for him, so I said sure I will work the weekend with a couple of guys and get it done. That Sunday afternoon, his second wife (the nurse that got her Mrs. degree at the hospital he did his residency at) asked me to check the light fixture in the garage, they had asked the homebuilder to look at it, but he had not sent anyone back for a couple of weeks, I asked if they checked to see if there was a bulb in it...they both assured me that was not the problem, I got a ladder and took the globe off and of course there was no bulb...

I paid attention in life, and took 4 years of Vo Ag. learned the basics of welding and electrical, in fact I learned a lot of skills there that I still use all the time. I also took 4 years of math and all the science I could get in high school as well (my Mother was the teacher), CLEPed out of required math at college, (which I paid for myself, no debt at the end). Was out in 3 years from a "second rate" UT school. Over the course of my construction life it did get me a job once in Texas as none of the other applicants had a degree, and all the Chemistry I took has stood me in good stead.

What I see as a need for positions to fill are electricians and certified welders. That and equipment setters/riggers, of course we build steel mills, galvanizing lines and aluminum mills.

India is overrun with that. The students there don't get degrees. They get Microsoft and Cisco certifications. Their cirricula are set by Google, Amazon (AWS), Dell/EMC/VMware...

It's good that you run into resistance with that. You're a government contractor, funded by taxpayers and public debt, using state funding (more taxes and public debt) to support Federally-funded universities (more public debt) to fulfill the governor's request. You're basically a Communist outfit and operations like yours is what's ruining the US economy -- and the talking heads are all proposing more of the same to solve the problem. Exactly what wouldn't be better if your public-debt funded and big-government directed operation just shriveled up and died?

Trade school come out making $100K year seen it uh hunnerd times

Went through the IBEW apprenticeship too. Pay is great, I've only had to work outside of the local twice. I usually had to work 6 months to make what my wife made in a year teaching with much better benefits overall.

I thought we hated unions here?

Is a trade school any school that is not college?

One of the reason I went into the Air Force was because I did know what I wanted to do.
Wound up a computer programmer, 4month school and a year+ OJT..

There were quite a few schools and jobs that trained computer people. Chubb, Met Life, Grumman, etc...
You could also do the College route too. W/O a degree you can forget management.

Some places will just throw out a resume that doesn't show College.

Yep, son did his 2 years at a CC[welding].
First year at Steel Dynamics he just topped $100K
Last year he made $130K

Went to a 2 year Tech College and received an Assoc. Degree in Architectural Design and Drafting, graduated and right away had 4 offers for good jobs. Worked 3 years in the trades and decided to go back and get my Teaching Degree in Technical & Vocational Education. Graduated and again had three good job offers. Ended up teaching in a Vocational /Technical HS, where students spent 1/2 days learning Math, Science, and English and the other 3 hours a day doing hands on learning in 12 different fields. Very well equipped labs with current state of the art equipment and teachers with a degree and min. of 5 years experience in their field, or others that didn't have degree's but just vast amount of work experience.
They attended for their Junior and Senior Years. Most went right to work out of HS, others went on to College and studied in there chosen field, many of those colleges gave advanced credit for their work in HS, meaning they could graduate a full Semester early.
In the years I taught I had many of my students go on to become successful Architects, Draftsman, Salesman and Builders.
All during my 31 years of teaching I had a part-time job designing and drawing Custom Homes for builders in my area. Evenings, weekends and summer vacations, all out of the convenience of my house.
21 years ago I retired, and just kept my little sideline, working about 15 hours a week. Switched over to CAD and still do everything from home.
My part time work at age 77, pays anywhere from $70 to $125/hour and gives me fun money beyond my SS & Teacher Pension. My fellow teachers who taught English, Math, and Science work a Walmart for $19/hr for extra money or something to do with their spare time.
There is nothing wrong with an education in the Trades, through Apprenticeships, Tech Schools, or BS Degrees in specific occupations.

A building trade gets tough about the time you hit 40. I got a government maintenance job at 36, have a good pension plus SS and a small union pension. A pension is important, needs to be a consideration for young people.

Preach it, Mike Rowe.

EVERY kid in high school needs to see this. Not all sucess stories are found in college.

I haven’t read all of this but my brother went to ITT in Portland and finished after two years with job offers working on cell phone towers and making twice what I was making as a state employee with a four year degree.

Where I live plumbers are booked way out and seem to make great money. Makes me think it would be a good way to go for my some of my kids.

My daughter is looking at a three year program for a certificate to do ultrasounds. seems to make decent money in has jobs available. She will be investing three years in her education as opposed to the six my wife and I each put in each of ours making about double coming out.

On the other hand, my college roommate went back to school and got his masters in outdoor recreation. I did not think He would find a real job at all and thought he would be in trouble. Instead, he spent the last two decades teaching kids how to fish, Climb, kayak, etc. for good money and benefits. I am happy for him but Makes me a little jealous...