Anybody else think there is a strong correlation between the two?

I believe trucking companies require piss test....no?

Is that why Cali outlawed independent truckers? Because they legalized weed?


I don't know, just a thought I had and figured I'd share. With so many states legalizing weed, it has to be a factor.

We are honestly going to have rethink the whole piss test-liability thing.

Possible, my buddy has a CDL with all the Class designations....and he has to pizz clean including no weed.

No it's because the job sucks ass. That's why nothing but foreigners like eastern Europeans, sikh's, and Muslims are driving them.

It's also why they drive like dog schiett

Calling all Mtn Boomers.

Many factors depending on our views (include prejudices)

Independents dont have super clean diesels
Mexican drivers have been deported according to some
Non union not welcome
Big trucking companies have transitioned to logistics
Maybe marijuana use

There's a bit of truth to this.

And some of those folks think highly of living in America and being able to work hard and get where they couldn't in their scheidthole countries.

I'm on the board of a large local co-op and a major problem we have is employees that think that because marijuana is legal, that the laws and requirements about being drug free somehow don't apply anymore. Wrong.

The regulations and restrictions are worse for getting a CDL than a Private Pilots License.



The industry is doing what ever it can to make it harder and harder to get a CDL.

It seems like a meat grinder job. Trucker gets fed into the wood chipper with long hours, away from home, not enough pay...

A lot more truckers on the road than in the air with potentially more road situations to cause a wreck.

Personally, I want the trucker qualified, trained, and sober when driving.

As for weed, treat it the same as booze.

🦫

We dont want a gorrillion immigrants flooding in to do the jobs eh?



The "liability" situation in this country makes the EU laugh.

There are shortage problems in trucking alright.
Shortage of pay,
Shortage of consideration,
Shortage of respect, it goes on and on.

The top paid local drivers earn about what I do now.
I work 8 hours. Inside, without a license, no liability, very little
personal danger, no pee tests, no law enforcement looking to
screw me over. Anything over 8 is overtime.

Long haul drivers earn more, but much less/hr.
I always said as a longhauler that in many ways prisoners lived a
better/more free life than I did.

They eat 3 times a day, on schedule.
They can shower regularly, on schedule.
They can sleep, regularly, on schedule.
They have free time to pursue their interests (pretty decent in the prisons)

That sounds like BS to those who never ran long haul.
But load requirements, loading/unloading times/laws, controlled
all the above for me. (Except laws. Back then we disregarded them)

So you have guys trading 6/7 of their life for $70-80k.
Before road expenses.

Dillon! You should be submitting to 8 piss tests daily!


For my safety!

Had a conversation about that with my insurance company this week. My policy dictates if A guy makes a workers comp claim and pisses dirty, they pay out for that injury, but no longer cover that guy, in effect, I’m forced to fire him. Now that it’s legal in Va I asked what the hell we’re doing now, and she told me they’re trying to figure it out, but no idea yet.

I believe in personal responsibility, so everyone should have a right to do what they want to their body, and if a person smokes, drinks or uses, there should be no welfare of any type. Life choices should have consequences.
It would control the outcome much better .

I get it. It's a meat grinder. That's why i said it sucks.

This must be the only country on earth that pushes and encourages substance abuse....then penalizes the fugg out of you for doing it.

The piss tests only detect the residuals from smoking weed, not the intoxicating effects.The residuals may be in your system for up to 30 days after you light up. The intoxicating effects only last a few hours. I agree treat weed the same as booze. But there needs to be a test for intoxication, not residuals.

When I worked for the DOT a CDL was not a requirement for my position but after a few years I went thru the training and rec my class A with air brakes , combined vehicles, tank cert everything but hazmat. You are then subjected to random drug testing (piss test) if you won't take or fail one your out on your ear. Never been a doper or any other illegal drug user. All I need to look at is that clause on a 4473 to know why I ain't going there. In a snow plow your out in absolutely the worse driving conditions visibility , cold, snow ,sleet, slush with 12 /20' of big steel on the driving surface trying to make the road safe for others. The others the traveling public some just trying to get home and some trying to round up more beer, dope or pizza. It's a thankless job and so is truck driving that' s so many wander from it and become dopers
They weren't the right people for it in the 1st place. Mb

Long hours, away from home, not enough pay?

Where have I heard that before?

Such is life, this "away from home" stuff bothers me. A person does what they need to do to support themselves and their family. Been happening for eons.

Military goes though it all the time.

Not military, but the wife and I lived in different areas of the country for the last 10 years of our careers before retirement, full time some years, 8 month season the other years. Hadn't been for an eye injury I might still be working in WA while she lives here in Cali, but I retired 4 years ago. we couldn't always find good paying work in our fields in the same area and she was at a point in her career that many times meant living in a real city which I can't do.

More Americans need to realize sometimes life ain't easy and, yeah, we might have to work long hours, away from home................and there's never enough pay!

Given that a 100 million + Americans will soon be dying from the COVID vaccine, I don’t blame the trucking companies for not wanting too much staff. The problem will soon resolve itself.

Wouldn't a basic road side sobriety test do the job?

No because that's hocus-pocus and coppers are just out to get you. Remember?

Standardized field sobriety tests are unscientific and bogus.

There is a bit of subjectivity to those tests.............................


which is why they are followed up by a breath of blood test in most instances.

Show us where the doctor touched you.

Hey now, Mister. They did do away with all those horrible opioids that people were using for pain management and getting high, dontcha know.

🦫

Hahaha! After we invaded Afghanistan for the dope.



Go ahead and ask your doctor about ___________ and then kill yourself for losing your job when you take it.

No fûck’n doubt !

🦫

No. The effects of weed are not as pronounced as booze. Anybody with a tolerance (i.e., been smoking for some time) for weed could pass a road side sobriety test. Being stoned isn't the same as being drunk.

If you develop and market a road side test for weed, you will be rich.

Not true.

DOT requires companies to drug test their employees on Amy DOT related projects including pipeline workers

Jim,
40+oz of coffee and blood pressure meds, I'm well flushed.

Valsdad,
It's not "Away from home".
Moving your family, or even military allows personal life to go on.
(Obviously, military varies in this)
I typically left the house sometime Sunday, sometimes Saturday.
From then on, it was sleep when you can, eat when you can,
shower when you can. No time to do anything much you wanted.
Maybe read a bit in the bunk. Stand around at a customer and listen
to drivers lie. Get home late Friday or Saturday morning.

Long hours? 3100miles/week@55mph, average.
Always was cooking the book to minimize hours.
Often started over with a new one because I had over 70 in
the last 8 days logged. No idea the real numbers, but it was around
$900/wk. Somehow, never broke $40k/yr. Mid 90's.




It literally was your life.
All the stuff you do after work on a week day.
None of that.

Not a cry fest.
Did it for a number of years, the company I was pulling for
closed, and I walked away.

Life ain't easy.
For years after I quit long haul, we struggled financially, but we got to
live our lives. We would have stuck with it, but it wasn't woth it.
Got into dumptrucks, then hauling gas/diesel.



As to weed?
Would love to say it's nothing.
But I know too many CDL holders with DUIs.
Do know that it's getting harder to hire clean pissers.
We had one hot recently. Cost the guy a good opportunity.
Other outfits have quit testing.
Don't ask don't tell!
They would rather have a pothead then no one.

Yep, the state and lawyers making hay every day.

Well, the job I retired from, I got on the boat/barge combo at 0800, went downriver for two days unless a lock broke, the ship broke, the weather got bad, dumped the fish at/after sunset on the second day which on the Columbia River was 9PM or later in the summer, then turned upriver to pick up another load. Then, if everything cooperated, which it rarely did, I was supposed to get back to the project by 5PM on the fourth day, turn in the paperwork, and get scheidt ready to leave at 0800 the next morning. Sometimes this went on for 28-32 days in a row. Many times we didn't get back until after midnight and we still had to be ready to turnaround at 0800.

First day of the trip, I had to check the fish every two hours until after midnight, then every four hours until we dumped them. In other words, no real rest for 2 days. And maybe I might get a full four hour break IF an alarm on the barge pumps didn't go off, or the O2 levels stayed above spec. And having to go out in any type of weather from snow/sleet/ice or temps over 100F, high winds, water coming over the decks etc.

When I got home, there was no going to town for fun or supplies, as town was 30 miles up the hill out of the canyon and nearly an hours drive each way.

Not a whole lot different from trucking, and yet I was pretty happy to have a decent job even tho the wife and dogs were 6-17 hrs drive away depending on the year. And I had the pleasure of living in a 17' RV, then a 24' RV, and finally a 28' travel trailer.

All I'm saying is if it takes driving an OTR truck to make a living, that's what one does, whether it keeps one away from family or not. And those guys make about as much as I did in my job, except I might get better OT compensation. But 2 week periods with 120 hours of OT weren't always fun, even thought the pay was good.

I bet fatigue kills more people than a truck driver that had a joint a couple days ago.

100%.

Saw one wreck where a fella drifted off to sleep, ended up hitting bridge support at 80mph. 40k lbs of charcoal were all of the interstate, the tractor was cleaved in half, and ol boy was hamburger......

But I've also seen people so f'ed up on edibles that you'd think they were on pcp.

I guess every situation is different at the end of the day.

So you're saying a person can pass a standard roadside sobriety test and not be capable of driving safely?

Neighbor of mine passed out at 5am on his way home from a all night drive and took out a telephone pole about a 1/4 mile from the house. He seems to feel as if driving that fatigued was just fine and falling asleep and hitting the utility pole was just a stroke of poor luck that he didn't quite make it home first.

Didn't we have a poster on these threads that recently posted nonchalantly about falling asleep and totaling his truck?

Is it just me that thinks that is a irresponsible dangerous thing to do?
Rates right up there with doing 25 in a 65mph speed zone on an icy road while taking pictures.

No I was trolling you. Thanks for being stupid.

Now go back to posting nazi memes, phuuckhead.

Which part? The weed effect vs. booze? I've never had to be carried out of a place because I was "too stoned". Can't say that about booze.

Passing a FST while stoned? Been a while since my last FST. Perhaps the test has changed. But I can walk a straight line, toe to toe, when stoned. Not so much when drunk.

Or the being stoned isn't the same as being drunk part? See previous comments.

Maybe the quip about getting rich if a roadside test for weed is developed? Please elaborate. The trucking industry would love this type of test. May get them more drivers. It is no different than having a few beers the night before. So you lit up last night. Big deal. You're not stoned the next morning.

Not trolling here. A sincere, honest question. Which, if not all, are not true? Be specific.

You can determine Marijuana use with sfst's. No matter someone's tolerance. And with the insanely high thc % of weed now, including dabs, edibles, etc someone can be super f'ed up on weed.

A lot goes into a dope dui, to do it right takes good investigation skills and experience since it's not as obvious as booze, but it's not impossible or difficult (if you're a professional).

But can you determine if a person is presently stoned, or just that there are residuals in their system?

Presently stoned means nothing. Are they under the influence and incapable of operating a motor vehicle? Yes you can determine that with sfst's. Standardized field sobriety tests test many things, including one's ability for divided attention tasks, IE requiring someone to do multiple tasks at once (walk and turn and one legged stand). HGN is easy with someone on weed as they will have all the physical cues of being high without hgn, and they will usually have lack of convergence. That's a clue......

dui's are a totality of the entire investigation. Why was the stop made? Moving violation? Crash? Equipment violation? What are the behavioral ques? What is observed inside the vehicle? Etc.

It depends on the state for the threshold for a Marijuana dui (usuallystates that have legalized weed). Some have a specific cannabinoid measurement that determines whether someone is dui. Other states simply go by the incapable of operating a motor vehicle wording.

I strongly disagree. "Presently stoned" means everything. If a person lit up last night, they are not "under the influence" the next morning. I have never heard of a stoner hangover. If a person is not under the "intoxicating effects" of weed they will pass a SFST with flying colors, because they are not "under the influence" .

Not sure what you mean by "lack of convergence".

I get that you don't understand, because you know not what you speak of.....it's OK.

Fyi presently stoned means nothing in a legal sense. But keep trying...

BACK ON TOPIC. Weed has nothing to do with it. The industry has everything to do with it

Doesn’t every 38 year old dude that gets out of the Army want to drive a truck for JB Hunt?

I would never consent to a field sobriety test. Ever. Wanna go to a breathalyzer or a blood test, fine.

What I understand is that there is a truck driver shortage. If a person is not presently stoned they should be allowed to drive. Ya know, that personal responsibility, liberty, etc. thing. A responsible person will know if they are impaired and should not drive.

If said person is not presently stoned they should not have "lack of convergence". (Yeah, I had to look that one up)

60,000 drivers entered into the federal clearinghouse for failing a drug test in the last year or so. (IIRC)

Means that when they try to apply at a new company, new company knows of the failure. Driver has to do certain things to get cleared to drive again.

95% of those drivers are not making that effort. They're simply out of the driving pool.

There is less a shortage of drivers and more too much waste. Drivers spend too much of their allotted time on non revenue generating things.

Detention at load/unload, dead head, trying to find a load etc. 1/3 of a driver's miles are empty in this industry. Reduce that and the amount of drivers we're "short" gets considerably smaller.

Things like Baton, vHub, p44's new data work, Leaf logistics etc are all working on driving out that waste. Flock Freight just hit unicorn status with their series D.

There is a MOUNTAIN of investor dollars pouring into transportation and logistics right now.

but but but but but but but but but

Someone might inject vaccine in to you while taking out a blood sample.
And then you’d be all magnetic and stuff 😀

I understand the legal sense of presently stoned. If the [bleep] is in your system you are screwed, presently stoned or not.

I drove truck during college. We ran double bellie dumps hauling sugar beets to the sugar factory. One day they had a surprise piss test at the factory. There were a couple of dozen trucks with no drivers near the piss test trailer. I had to run each truck through the factory for all the drivers that quit.

Bb

Riiiiiiight

You guys think truck driver is a good job? Long hours, eating garbage, pissing in a milk jug, never home, chaining up in winter, hemorrhoids... F that.

dammit man, stop makin' me laugh.

and maybe not Hunt, but Swift or England. Maybe Cedar Rapids. ( I think that's the Christian outfit, for the Believers ya know)

For some folks, when you ain't got a job.............................................




any job is a good job.


For others there's the Dole................................................or Mama's basement.

Nah, all the believers are at Covenant Transport.

I hear you, but it's not like some average joe off the street can just go get a trucking job. You have to have the skills or training. Walmart is starting people at $19.50 here to stock shelves...

And dont forget the clots

thrombo mambo



But the glory holes tho

Covenant trucking

Happy Camper be your boss jack

Make you tithe and chit boy. Im tellin u what son

Pineapples or the old dude with ED?

By golly, I think I may have been mistaken.

I wonder if they ever hire any Catholics or Mormons?

You need to brush up on your British slang. Watch some more of those Midsommer Murders an scheidt.

Not if they are a Christian outfit.

For sure.


Couple years ago we a had three different trucks show up at once to haul calves home.


I know all three drivers.

One of them was a super stoner, thinking to myself.....fuuck this plan.

But he was good to go.

Vals...,
and you hit a big problem that has been in the industry forever.
When the economy is crappy, and there is no work, people are willing
to drive a truck. Except, there is usually less freight.

When every one is hiring, nobody wants to drive truck.


Dogcatcher
You are wrong about getting a trucking job.
If you can pee clean, have a good record and pass a physical, there are
companies that will either train you and pay lodging +food stipend.
Or tuition reimbursements for your driving school.

Schneider hired me at 21years and a month.
Contingent on getting through their school and passing CDL.
I had a 6 month commitment, or had to pay them $1k.
I think it's a year and $3k now.

Thing is schools charged thousand$ back then.
People would go through school take the test, and hand them a check.
Then go work where the want.

Much of this is payed for by job creation tax money.
That's a whole other big story, but in short the driver shortages
were intentional in the past.

Companies had their own schools, which got money for training drivers.
The companies got subsidies for the wages, which were pretty low
to begin with. Once drivers got up in the pay scale, it was financially
advantageous to drive them off. To be replaced by a new driver at a low,
subsidized wage.

Heck, the school I went to was at the Lancaster Vo-tech.
The state provided the classroom space, parking lot, fuel,
All teachers except the head teacher. Schneider provided the worn
out (but safe) trucks, head teacher, and maintenance.
It was only open for Pa residents. And a number of students were
ex-military on the GEAR program.


There was a huge lawsuit a few years ago involving SWIFT. And their
playing this game.

How about when they’re methed up and haven’t slept for 3 days?

Maybe that's where they got the saying Sure Wish I Finished Training!

All true. But bottom line, there is simply no driver shortage. The problem is retention. The large carriers, affectionally referred to as "megas", have a driver turn over of 100%, ore more, per year. Because they treat the drivers like seat-meat, the working conditions are abominable and pay is, for the hours worked, often sub-minimum wage.

I'll tell a story about my last truck driver hire. Went through the Prime training program, drove for them for a a couple of years. Gets a phone call from home, dad is in a bad way, not expected to make it more than a day or so. Driver calls dispatch, dispatch says "tough s#it, you're ours, we'll think about it after this load. Prime had FIVE trucks sitting at the same truck stop that could have re-powered that load. Needless to say, one of them ended up re-powering that load, after all. Driver now has over 500K miles with us, and ain't going anywhere, his wife tells me.. ..

When labor was abundant, the current over the road model was developed. Same as the fast food industry. Employers of last resort, and potential hires simply have much better choices for career opportunities, and the ones that do fall for a recruiter's spiel give the industry the finger as soon as the bloom is off the rose...... .

Why does anyone have to smoke weed?

why does anyone "have to" drink alcohol? gamble? go plinking? drink coffee? eat cake?

substitute any non necessary activity for "smoke weed".

and some folks either smoke it or use edibles for pain management. And get better and safer relief than opioids.

How does the sun set? How is a rainbow made?

How does a posi trac rear end in a Plymouth work?

It just does.

Great movie.

We have them in the transport industry here, and the majority are absolute incompetent filth.

Wouldn't bother me in the least if every single one of them dropped dead tonight.

Laws written to benefit Lawyers by politicians with Law degrees.

This.

NEVER do sfst's. EVER. NEVER talk to LE without an attorney. Sfst's are a joke administered by a clown who thinks there few weeks of "training" quality them as a medical DR. Any lawyer will tell you that. And NEVER help them to do a roadside inspection(turn signal, lights, ect.)

Think a basic CDL is hard, try a Hazmat.
Every license renewal you have to go through the same procedure it takes
to get the intial endorsement. Except, pay the $5 permit fee.

Written test on a computer. 80% or above.
(Some really struggle, the answers do not match what's in the book)

Homeland security background check.

Get fingerprinted.

That adds up to over $100 for the one endorsement.

Used to be many big carriers required the endorsement.
They didn't pull much hazmat per driver, but...flexibility.
Now most have dropped the requirement.
It's just too much BS for a couple loads a year per driver.

The oil company hasn't needed me to fill in for several years,
so I let mine go. Getting a new one is only $5 more and some time.

Ain't paying for a physical every year either, so my license is in
an escrow type status.

Other than the dropped hazmat, I have every truck endorsement,
have pulled a number of trailer types,
can drive most every transmission, (Except auto, never have)
plus, log trucks, fuel trucks, and dumps(asphalt, milling, chipping experience)

At this time, if I needed to drive, it would probably take a month or
more to reactivate my license. After getting a physical.
The hazmat test could be passed in a week
if I could get in to test.
The background check can take weeks to months.

Yup, there is a reason CDL make more money than LE on average as with most trades. Higher I.Q. is one reason.

Yup, there is a reason CDL make more money than LE on average as with most trades. Higher I.Q. is one reason.[/quote]



Have spent too much time around truck drivers to agree with you here.😉

Will definitely say that anyone who want to become a LEO today,
already failed the mental competency test.

LOL

I like hanging out with truck drivers, especially owner ops. Yes, a percentage are there, barely capable of the job, but you find the most interesting characters among drivers. Lots of second career type individuals, quite a few stepped out of rat-race middle and upper management careers. Choose to drive truck, make the same kind of money, don't have to deal with corporate BS. My relief driver is a contractor (remodels bathrooms) and a mobile mechanic for farm equipment -- he's a sharp guy, very competent, very knowledgeable, but doesn't want to get stuck doing one thing for the rest of his life. And he ain't cheap..

I suppose the same goes for LEO's, but the mouth breathers there are far more dangerous.

Yeah Dutch, I agree. Met lots of sharp guys.

What came to my mind are the liars.
Started the job for real 4 months after turning 21.
Hillbilly kid, quiet Christian family, pretty sheltered.
Not worldly, but not stupid either.


Holly crap did I attract the scammer. Especially out west.
Looked really young(got carded into my 30's) and every SOB story
lying for a handout came to me.

Or, the guy.
You've met him.
He is telling such a whopper you are standing there thinking,
"This Bastard is pissing me off. Does he think I believe him?
Does he think I'm that stupid? Whgat should I do?
Nod? Like I believe him? Or just walk away? Or, call Bullschidt?"

Had forgot those idiots, untill I worked the dock at work one day.
Not that many are so bad. Just can't stand them.

It's bizarre, not sure why people are so infatuated with that crap. Can't go through life sober? Everyone I know that is into weed thinks they are Socrates with their philosophy, like they are so much smarter than the average human. My ex is a pothead, every decision she makes is retarded and void of common sense.

I am almost certain that California outlawed independent operators in an effort to reap great tax gains from forcing all the Uber drivers employed in sucha manner that Gavin Newsome could stick his greedy hands in everyones pockets. He is too stupid to foresee what his greed resulted in.

Asking because I don't know - gov see more tax revenue if I pay you 100k as an employee or 100k on a 1099?

Did I hear Colorado and Comifornia was dealing with a major shortage on Cheetos?

Could you explain this more? I have been curious how that works with legalized Mary Jane, especially when it is still illegal on the federal level. How about when crossing state borders to a state where it isn't legal, but it is still in your system?

I'd imagine this is something lawyers and the courts will be hashing out for quite some time and OSHA regs may be revisited at some point.

OSHA’s stance is, until there is a test that can measure levels, any positive will not end well for the employee.

We just hashed this all out with NM OSHA.

Good god, if you dummy’s don’t think a trucker can beat a drug test, there’s no hope…

That ain't no schitt.

Pretty easy for a driver to pass a drug test these days. Especially if you have a few minutes heads up.

Sorry to hear that. I've met a couple here, just a couple mind you, Eastern Europeans, that seemed quite pleased to be working here rather than living where they came from. What they're like at home I have no idea.

It’s easy but we have guys fail every month ! Owner operators who should know better. 50+ year olds getting popped for pot. The drug tests have gotten tighter and levels that used to pass don’t anymore. For as long as I’ve driven as an owner operator I’ve been given a heads up and told to not show up and take whatever time off I feel I need for personal reasons. Every driver is given that chance. Many still come in and get their official notifications and go fail the test. If they pop hot my broker calls them and tells them ahead of time and tells them to find another job today before they are fired and the test shows up on their record. Crazy !

Well this thread only took 4 pages to turn into a pissing contest, and then just end up, being off the rails...

The campfire is getting better and more skilled at it.

And yet over 60,000 of them couldn't so far in 2021

And then there is the agricultural exceptions. I don’t have a problem with joe farmer driving truck, they more than likely drive better than the Nigerian immigrant.

But, the hours they can run is basically unlimited.

Just about every frac sand truck driver I see these days is not from these parts.

And yet, based on actual accident statistics, trucks operating under the agricultural hours of service exemption have a lower accident rate than trucks that are required to follow HOS.

Almost like the government screwed that pooch, too, huh?

Though I admit the new rules are much better: thank you, Trump.

Harvest time ,(limited time frame provided by mother nature ) hauling animals , reason obvious .

Honest work, it'll keep the kids off welfare.

But apparently most Americans have become too good for it. Many would rather just wait for a .gov check.

A lot of Americans are going to be real shocked when they learn that "Every one according to his ability" goes along with "Every one according to his need".

This ^^^

kwg

Just like my employer in Oregon. Pot is legal here, of course, so is alcohol. But if a piss test shows any trace of either in your system while at work, it is the same as crystal meth, or heroin.

Zero tolerance.

Should be the same for anyone herding 80,000 to 105,000 lbs down the road with nothing to keep him from crossing the lane and hitting me head on, but a yellow striped line on the road.

It is but the ones who do it always have their little packet of stuff to dump in their piss.

Nonsense

Nothing to do with mary-jane, but an interesting take on truck driver shortage reasons.

I get it Krystal Ball is a Bernie supporter, but truckers, is there any fire behind that smoke?

Are you saying there is zero tolerance for BAC? As in 0.0000 readings? Therefor anyone who was out a little late, got 8 hours sleep after drinking at their kid's wedding reception, but still had, lets say a detectable level below the legal limit of 0.03, a valued employee would be out the door?

My brother did one of those lease to own deals back in the 80's. Got out of it after realizing the company he worked for (a national moving company) was providing him enough work to make the payment on the tractor without much leftover. Other little brother and I rented out his house while he was on the road so he didn't lose it. When he got out of that gig, he got a short haul job doing dirt and hazmat for an actual wage or getting paid by the ton/mile in one case.

There's more than a little truth in her story I think. It's likely worse now than when he was in that business. Eventually, he got a transit company job so he could get a retirement.

If you want truckers that don't smoke weed then pay enough that you'll get truckers who don't smoke weed. It's as simple as that.

Companies want responsible choir boys to drive their trucks but they pay crap wages and offer miserable working conditions. There are plenty of people out there who aren't potheads and will work hard for you, but you have to pay them and make the working conditions such that their life doesn't suck.

It's the free market. If you want someone to act professional then treat them like a professional.

Valsdad,
Your brother worked for ComTrans. A division of North American.

Tau trucking companies had been advertising hiring 21 years olds
to drive truck. The day I turned 21, I called them, got their
packets later that week. ComTrans and Schneider.


Read the Comtrans stuff
Lease to own, from the people who controlled my income?
I couldn't even pick my truck. Got stuck in an old one, "with the future
opportunity to upgrade".


I smelled the rat, and went with Schneider.
Eventually ComTrans was put out of business due to their practices.


Sken,
Crystal definitely has some fire with the smoke.
Never been a container hauler from ports, but I've sure done
enough time to have experienced everything she says, except the
crooked lease agreements. Research Prime Trucking, for that info.
And they are a big "legitimate" outfit. Imagine the mob outfits at ports.

Standard trip planning values,
2 hours for any load/unload,
1 hour for drop and hook trailer
1/2 hour for pretrip
1/2 hour to fuel.

These standards are used to calculate if one can meet the requirements
for pickup and delivery of an offered load.

I often would do a load a day as a long haul guy.
So, unload+reload+fuel and pretrip.
5 hours unpaid. In the plan.
It takes at least an hour to load anything.
I have spent as much as 2 days waiting. (Not often. But up to 8 isn't uncommon) No layover pay until it hit 24 hours.

Grocery warehouses are horrible 4-8 hours to unload are common.
A hand unload paid $50 (1990s) and was planned at 4 hours. That would be quick. Due to dock requirements and procedures.
Hand unload or not, you had to get the freight out of the trailer, with
a manual or motorized pallet lift. Often, you had to take a layer(plus)
of product off each skid and stack it on others to meet their skid size
requirements. We had to touch 70 or 80% before we got paid. So this was
usually free.

Not sure how this has all changed in 20 years.

But,
My hours of service laws were 10 hours driving, or,
15 hours combined driving/work, then an 8 hour break.

And we logged it on paper with a pen. And lied like hell.

Today, it's 11 hours driving, 10 hour break.
But there are 2 critical wrinkles.

If you drive an electronic engine truck, you are pretty well mandated
to use electronic logging.

There is a 14 hour window to work in.
Once you do any work, or drive, a 14 hour clock starts.
You have the potential to drive 11 hours, but within 14.
So if you unload then load at 4 hours, that used your time and you
now only have 10. Fuel and pretrip down to 9.
Get screwed at a dock?

In my trucking days, we lied on the logbook. Shifted time and the
wasted time was shown as off duty or sleep time. We lost sleep,
But kept clocking paying miles.

I mentioned the electronic logs?

You slept at a delivery costumer last night,
And they wake you, tell you to back into door number 3.
When you release your brakes and move,
that 14 hour clock just started. And there is nothing you can do about it.

The 14 hour rule and the E-logs have been causing problems
in the industry for a few years. I really don't think any of the
desk drivers that made these rules had any idea how much we
got screwed with, or how much we lied in our logs.

Went on here, but..

With paper logs if you got sleepy, and had time on the load,
you pulled over and took a nap. Didn't log it. You waited untill
later and put that time with the 4 or 5 hours you were down that night.

Now, if you get the afternoon nods, (or 4am) you can't nap.
That 14 hour clock is ticking. When it is up. You gotta
shut down, or you are in violation. And it's recorded, reported, and
you can't do Jack crap about that.

Truck accidents are up.
Despite these regulations?
Or because of them?

Ahh sugar beet harvest here in the valley is about complete. Grannies can park their beet spilling, red tag special after a 20 hour day.


I worked for a company hauling grain and fertilizer, cake work. When spring rolled around we hauled fertilizer to the farmers and our floaters. 0600 to midnight with maybe 4 hours a day sleep, fugk that.

That company would have thrown your azz under the bus so fast if you got in an accident. The only truckers that should be ag exempt are Bull haulers.

Mister subsidized farmer wouldn’t be held liable. Can’t interfere with their Mexican vacation plans or his ol ladies trip to Fargo.

Dillon, you are exactly correct, the desk jockeys and their 14 hour rule made things much more unsafe. Electronic logs just made it worse.

Example: we run from Twin Falls to Seattle. Load in the afternoon, for a little over 600 mile run. In the paper days, you’d run till you got sleepy, about 11 or so, went down for some sleep, and picked it up again in time to hit the receiver when they opened in the morning. You’d have 18 hrs or so to do the 11 hrs, so you got time for some beans and some zzzzz’s. If there was snow, oh, well, you slowed down and slept an hour or two less, and just pencil whipped the log into submission.

With the 14 hr clock and and electronic logs, no slowing down for snow, and absolutely no naps. You had to push through the 2 -4 am drowsy period, park at the receiver at 4 am and only then could you get some rest. And then your entire next day was messed up, because moving the truck into the dock. meant your 10 hour break was interrupted, so you’d have to start another 10 after you were unloaded before you could drive again. So a one day trip took two days to do legal. This is where a lot of today’s capacity constraint came from.

The good news is that the FMCSA, under TRUMP, recognized the idiocy of that inflexibility, and modified the rules. You can now stop the 14 hour clock with a rest period of at least two hours, (part of the updated split sleeper rule).

We’re running livestock, so technically we are allowed to still use paper, but we use ELD’s. Betwixt the Ag exemption rule and the new split sleeper, we can run hard enough legal that the convenience of the ELD doing all the logging and calculation work is worth the rigidity.

Unfortunately, the new split sleeper rule is pretty hard to understand, many of the larger trucking companies do not allow their drivers to use it, because they’d eff it up. So the 14hr rule still messes with a lot of drivers on a daily basis.

Dutch,
I keep informed, but am on the outside edge of the loop.😉
Might need to jump back in one day.

Is the split sleeper rule much different than the old one?

Must start with a full break.
At least 2 sleeper hours.
Driving hours on either side can't be added up to more than 10 (11 now).

So we did 5 driving, sleeper for 2+, than 5 driving, next break added to last
had to equal 8. Usually team it was just 4 on, 4 off.

I never used that solo. It was too screwy.
Instead, usually got the book inline in the morning,
maybe tuned it up early afternoon. Then waited untill morning.

The DOT guys were almost always cool. If they caught me, they
were happy if you could lie fast enough to be there legal.
They knew the drill,
could tell if you were legit, or chewing toothpicks.😉

The split sleeper is the same, except it can now be done with as little as 7 hrs in the sleeper, rather than 8, and the first break pauses the 14. So you can actually pull up short of Seattle during rush hour, grab dinner, Face time the kids as they get ready for bed, and then cruise on for a few hours after traffic has died down. Or the snow has stopped, or the sun has set and is not in your face, or whatever.

Takes a huge amount of pressure to “go, go, GO” off the drivers.

As an aside: the new administration is now taking a very hard look at the detention issues, specifically, that you mentioned earlier. For the first time since I bought a truck and started paying attention in ‘06, is there a discussion about the crap life that trucking has become. The statistics on increasing accident rates, despite the new HOS “safety rules”, despite all the new “safety systems” like auto braking that are on trucks, despite mandatory electronic logging..... the statistics now clearly show things keep getting worse, not better. The answer obvious to anyone with any kind of common sense is : quit running the experience hands out of the industry.

The improved flexibility and sensibility of the latest HOS revision was a good step. Keeping drivers from sitting unpaid for half a day before unloading at HEB would be a very good second step.

We shall see.

Without getting into the controversial why's, union is one you know
the other, drivers are way under paid in most cases.

Look at Wal-Mart. Their per mile isn't huge. But when you pay a
driver for all his time that you require, it adds up.

I know guys who drove in the 60s through 80s.
Guys who used to bring home $3-500/wk. Actual bring home.
When a new Camero was $3-4k and a nice home could be bought
for under $20k.

Those guys were wealthy. People envied truck drivers.

The truck has become way more comfortable and friendly,
The roads are better.

Pretty much every other part of the job has gotten worse.
As an earlier post, people are willing to drive, when they can't do
anything else. There really isn't much to attract people.
Even for the naive ones who are attracted to the pay,
The lifestyle and the uncomped hassels outweigh the money.

Plus there really is a status thing, many don't realize it or even deny it.
But it's there. It's become hard to be proud of a profession so
many look down on.

Ironically, they also would deny it. But listen to them talk,
watch them drive. Trucks are nothing but a problem for them.