In 2018, a hunter armed with a .50 caliber rifle shot an antelope from 1,954 yards in Fremont County, and then sent a video of it to Muley Fanatics, trying to prove a point.

The video had the opposite of the intended effect.

“We told him (the hunter) that is not something we endorse,” Josh Coursey told Cowboy State Daily on Friday. He’s the co-founder, president and CEO of Muley Fanatics, a mule deer conservation group.

He declined to identify the hunter who had sent the video. It had been sent with the intent of making the point that an animal could be humanely and ethically killed with a rifle from great distances, Coursey said. He’s also a member of the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force, which met in Casper on Friday.

“Shooting from 1,954 yards isn’t fair chase,” he said.

What Is The Right Distance?

The topic of ethical shooting distances prompted a lively discussion during the task force’s meeting. There was no clear consensus over whether the Legislature or the Wyoming Game and Fish Department should, or even could, establish ethical shooting distance rules.

Modern bows, particularly crossbows, have stretched possible archery kill shots out to 100 yards or more, said some task force members and hunters who commented via Zoom. And rifle technology has evolved to make possible shots hardly dreamed of before.

Shooting at extreme ranges isn’t ethical or necessary, said task force member Sy Gilliland. He’s the president of the Wyoming Outfitter and Guides Association. The use of noise suppressors on rifles, currently legal in Wyoming, makes things even sketchier, he said.

“You can shoot 700 yards at an animal that can’t even hear the shot,” he said. “Yeah, that’s really sporting.”

The capability of hunting weapons has always evolved, making the topic of ethical shooting distances murky, said task force member Pet Dube. He is also a member of the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission, which sets Game and Fish policy.

“They started this discussion when they invented rifle scopes,” he said. “What might not seem wrong now might not be wrong 20 years from now.”

Practice Makes For More Humane Hunting

Hunter Fonzy Haskell commented over Zoom that he’s a long-distance shooter and also sometimes uses a suppressor.

“I’m an avid long-range shooter. I’m a competitive long-range shooter and I sometimes utilize that in my hunting,” he said. “I would say ‘ethical’ is dispatching that animal in the quickest and most humane way possible.”

Long-range shooters practice vigorously, he said. That makes them more likely to land precise, quick-killing shots in the field.

He added that suppressors are good for controlling predators, such as coyotes. They allow a hunter to take out multiple coyotes while avoiding detection.

However, even if somebody is skilled enough to shoot extreme distances, it still isn’t ethical because the animals don’t have a reasonable chance of escape, hunter Rob Shaul said over Zoom.

Ethical limits should be roughly 400 yards for rifles and 50 yards for bows, he said.

“Most big game animals can’t detect a hunter more than 400 yards away. That’s out beyond the biological limits of the animal, and that’s not fair chase,” he said. “Hunting is not shooting,” he said. “If you want to shoot 1,000 yards, shoot at iron (targets).”

Improved technology and better equipment can make hunting more humane and ethical, said task force member Lee Livingston. He’s a guide and Park County commissioner.

“People used to hate archery hunters,” because the use of older model bows frequently left animals getting away wounded.

With more modern bows, the hunters that he guides make quick, clean kills, even on large bull elk, Livingston said.

A Matter Of Public Perception

Hunters and guides must be mindful of their reputation with the general public, Gilliland said. Having nation-wide public opinion turn against hunting could spell the end of it.

“The average suburban housewife might not understand much about hunting,” he said. “But she understands that shooting an animal behind a fence isn’t ethical. She understands that shooting an animal from 800 yards away isn’t ethical.”

Hunters should refrain from posting “kill shot” videos on social media, Shaul said. The public will find footage of animals being killed distasteful and turn against hunters.

“Filming and posting big game kill shot videos is political suicide,” he said.

Long range hunting says braggart or idiot to me

It depends on the weapon, and the skill of the shooter. 100 yards is "Long Range" for my .50 caliber Pennsylvania flintlock. With a good rest for my 6.5-06, a 400 yard shot on a deer is not only possible, but pretty routine in certain places I hunt. Probably 80% of the deer I've taken in the past 40 years have been within 75 yards or less- - - -sometimes a lot less.

There will be those who favor it who will refuse to enter into an intelligent discussion of it.
There will be those who oppose it who will refuse to enter into an intelligent discussion of it.

We just had a thread on this in one of the other forums. You know what they say about opinions...

Recently a new long range record was set. 4.4 miles and hit an 8” target. Don’t know if it was a creedmoor or not?!
Only took 69 shots to hit the bullseye.

If you know what you are doing, and are skilled at accuracy at whatever range you hunt, then go for it, if that's the way you roll.

I ain't gonna tell another grown up how to hunt.

When I started hunting in the early 1980's several of my friends were bow hunters, the dirty little secret was the amount of wounded animals that escaped and it was not talked about.
I suspect the same happens when the average Joe buys a Gunwerks super long range blaster "system" and thinks he can buy ability.

Dead is dead. I really don't care how it was accomplished as long as it wasn't a .270 Win. Otherwise, just kill the thing and eat it.

I killed over 90 whitetail in central Georgia, and a bunch of wild hogs. Wooded land, swamps, with a lot of brush. Longest shot I ever had was 80 yards. Not too hard with a Mauser in 30-06 with a scope.
I am not familiar with long range hunting.

Yes but overall there's more room for intelligent discussion on the part of those who favor it. Because many of the ones opposed tend to not really know much about it.

Way too many animals are wounded in the process of so called "long range hunting", as I get older I take greater care to put the animal down as quickly and humanly as possible, don't care about "long range kill" bragging rights, that is for people with something to prove to themselves.

Shoot steel at LR…..with aperture sights and then you can brag about how good you are!

Most hunters aren’t familiar with it!

Hunting and shooting are different endeavors.

I’m a 300 yard max hunter.

I worked my ass off to get within a reasonable distance on a great bull only to have some guys start lobbing shots over my head at the animal from the ridge behind me. As they were shooting I walked right out into the park below the elk and shot 5 rounds into the hill side and threw my hands up in the air looking back at them. They were taking shots at him from every bit of 1000 yds. This was in the early years of the long range hunting “shooting” fad.

I don't have the equipment nor the capabilities to shoot way out there. Never pursued it.

I feel confident out to 400 but the longest I have shot was a lazered 317 on a WY 'lope.

A guy has to know his limits and about 400 is mine.....mostly because I don't have opportunity to shoot beyond that. Most of the ranges around here don't have long range capability.

I'm still on the fence about real long range hunting but lean toward the idea that too much can go wrong. I like better odds.

Pretty sure nobody cares what I think....but....

I figure if you are taking shots that you are less than 95% certain you will make a good hit, you are shooting too far (or with an inadequate rest, or in too poor light, too high wind, etc).

Now, if someone is hunting to avoid going without meat, this changes somewhat.

I suspect very few of us here fall into that category.

I’m not sure shooting an animal from a thousand yards is hunting. Shooting maybe 🤔 but hunting not so sure. I pride myself on being able to get close. As long as you’re proficient at shooting from long range then who’s to say.

To each there own.

It ain't for me, but I kind of admire the guys who can pull it off, have the skill, knowledge and practice enough to do it consistently. But on the other hand, I shot NRA High Power for 40 yrs and at a mere 600 yds, wind and mirage frequently put crow on the diet of masters and high masters. Now take away wind flags, spying on competitors targets, and free sighter shots...it adds up to adding luck to the factors for success. Since videos of failure don't garner a lot of watchers...we don't usually get to see the failures. I really have contempt for the guys who don't have the skills or practice enough, that think you can build a rifle and buy an optic, have a spotter that is as ignorant as the shooter, and are qualified to snipe at animals. And the bottom line for me is, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Good point. Something no one has brought up is the TOF to the target in the OP. Just off the top of my head, it took roughly 4+ seconds for the bullet to get to the target. A lot can happen in that amount of time. To me, that type of shot is reckless when we are talking ethics and "humane" 1 shot kills. What the OP posted is considered ELR, not just "long range". I'll shoot 4-700 yards on a big game animal, but practice out to 1,000-1,500 yards and also shoot competitively in long range events. You are right. A lot of the people that don't shoot longrange, don't know enough about it. Yet they try to impose their short range rules on the rest of us.. Like others have said and what I have said a 100 times, you need to know your limits and abilities. Don't overstep those boundaries..

I have yet to meet ANY big game animal I can't get within 300 yards of.

40 years as a bowhunter teaches you how to HUNT.

Shooting STEEL at 1000 yds is fun, wounding animals is not.

Wanna be snipers should join the military where the target can shoot back.

A real hunter can do just fine with this.

There you go^^^^ Dumb fu cks trying to impose their short range rules on the rest of us. ^^^^

I rest my case:

I fall into this category for several reasons. Hasbeen

It was 4ft by 8ft, not 8inches

Anything more than 100 yards I consider shooting, not hunting. Then again sitting over a foodplot and having a 30yard shot really isnt hunting either.

You would not feel that way if you hunted the open country of the West!
Agreed on the food plot thing

This is always a contentious discussion, though a valid one. The conversation is always geared towards long range center fire, but should include archery and ML as well. 100 yard archery kills are not that uncommon anymore. Smokeless ML’s have become single shot rifles and the list goes on.

No one can deny technology has extended the range for all. As Western tags become harder to acquire, hunters are taking advantage of every technology available to be successful. Like it or not, technology is going to be a bigger discussion every year.

It’s all good till they come after your technology.

My rifles were usually zeroed at 300 yds.
264 Win and 7mm STW at 350.
The range card on the stock went out to 500 for each.
If I could not shoot four inch groups at 300 yds, from prone with the rifle, it did not go hunting. And yes, I shot dozens of shots each year between 400 and 800 yds, at rocks and othet targets of opportunity to test and assure capabilities.

So, yes, I was prepared and competent to take game with lethal and humane first shots to 500 yds. I shot many at 400 yds.

Deer and elk are made of meat. I eat meat, as does my wife and kids. There were excess animals on the range which needed thinned. I had tags.I did not take any step beyond that which was legal.

What someone else considers ethical or "fair chase" is of no consequence to me. I need only appease my concsience, and stay within the bounds of the law.

I use past tense, because I have not purchased a big game tag in several years.

....and shooting back makes you more intelligent? 🤪

Geez! Put your hunter orange on a stick and wave it around!
Used to hunt with a guy who would brag, "If a bullet hits near me, whatever I have in my pocket, I'm sending back that direction!"
I don't hunt with that idiot anymore!

Why on earth would you want to make a dangerous situation MORE dangerous? 🤔

P.S. - yeppers, it would piss me off too, but I'm not going to just start slinging lead helter skelter across the landscape!

I feel strongly that more animals are wounded by hunters taking running shots at 40 to 50 yds, than are wounded by shooting at a standing target inside 500 yds.

I believe the orange paint bullseye with the bullet hole in it was 8”, the backer that it was painted on was probably 4’x8’.

With almost any centerfire rifle, the animal can't hear it coming at 50 yards, either. Most of them are faster than the speed of sound, even at that distance.

I've read a lot of accounts of game being killed at 600+ yards, but not a single one of them told how many they wounded before one died.

That's a great choice for someone with a felony record Larry!

I love threads where I get to determine how everyone else pursues game.

Hold on, let me warm up my keyboard.

I believe ethics in the field matters.... but don't believe it should be legislated, it's a personal choice.

As an 'eastern hunter' I have never took a shot much over 200 yards.
I passed on by far the largest antlered whitetail that I've ever seen due to distance.
I guesstimated him at 400 yards out.
Used the rangefinder a couple years later....387
Not proficient here at those ranges.

I never said anything about “shooting back” or shots slinging around helter skelter across the landscape. But read into it what you will…

Don't do running shots, don't do shots over about 200/250 yards.

I'm even a bit skeptical about "walking" shots! LOL!
I'm another one of those that have killed the majority (95%) of their deer within 75 yards.
Closest so far has been 7 steps. About 14 feet. My old crippled up butt, my "stride"(hobble?) is approximately 2 feet!
I'd even wager that well over 50% of my kills have been less than 50 yards.
I don't have an actual count, but I'm pretty sure I've taken more than 80 white tails.
I've probably taken more deer in Oklahoma the twenty years I've lived up here than I did in the 52 years I lived in Texas. In Oklahoma, I've taken as many as 6 deer legally each year. Most years only taking 3 or 4.
In Texas, I never took over 2 annually.

An elk wounded at 600 yds in sagebrush with 4 inches of snow on the ground will not get lost like a wounded whitetail shot at 50 yds in a thicket back East.

No, but he might be over two hills and a mile away by the time you get there.....

Some people more skilled at 1000 than most are at 100. Go to the local range this time of year and watch guys shoot 3 boxes of ammo and still not be on paper at 100.

I used to spend a whole Saturday before deer season at the range helping people sight in their rifles. It's the only time many of them shoot in a year and an argument could be made that many of them shouldn't hunt at any distance. But, if they enjoy themselves and like to get out and do things their way then good for them. I don't believe everyone has to do things the same way. I think the more people hunting the better for the future of the sport.

I can shoot 1000 at the range but haven't attempted it on big game because I've usually been able to get closer and field conditions are rarely as good as range conditions. Ive killed several big game animals out to near 600 but haven't been in a situation yet where I've had to shoot further.

I grew up bow hunting so I'll always get closer if I can. The long range guys that bug me a bit are the ones that will actually back up to make it a longer shot. One guy in Utah told me he had an elk at 970 so he back up 30 yards before shooting. That seems wring to me personally but everyone doesn't have to do things my way.

It's good to shoot enough to know your limits. I've passed on relatively close shots because I didn't have a great rest or I didn't feel confident in the shot at the moment.

Bb

Depends on the hunter/shooter and the conditions. My personal limits are short but I have no issue with someone else taking a shot I'm not capable of so long as they've practiced and have demonstrated to their own satisfaction that they can make the shot reliably. My concerns come in where people, generally not nearly as experiences or skilled as they assume they are, start taking "maybe I can" and "hope I can" shots on game. I see no way to regulate that.

I believe that by neglecting to include hunter in the quote along with eastern you have lost credibility with many (not me) here at the 'fire.

Sounds like the Muley Fanatic guy needs to eat a bag of dicks.

Anything over 400 yards isn't spirting?

GFY.

The range they killed the antelope is more than twice as far as I would ever consider shooting at an animal. But more power to them if they can do it.

Long range target shooting is fun. Long range hunting = someone that needs to work on their hunting skills.

The distance an animal is taken at ,is irrelevant

dave

If one wants to shoot long range for big game hunting. I highly encourage they participate In a 1k yard match if one is held in your area. We had one in June and several guys left very humbled. At one point the wind was down most were hitting the 10 ring on the f class LR target is 10 inches in diameter. Then a wind change come from the right caught most shooters by surprise several ended up with 8-9 o’clock on the 7 ring , the 7 ring is 44 inches in diameter. The only ones not caught were the seasoned f class shooters they are always watching the wind. Or find a range like bsa shoots at shoot steel. Have the same effects when it comes to wind.

Agreed, not to mention how would Fish & Games police it if it were legislated?

Define "long distance" vs. "normal" hunting distance?
Gonna check ammo for those evil long skinny boolits?
"Sorry son, your scope is just too powerful, not legal in this state".

..... what a shiet show that would lead to.

Hey, you trying to pick a fight or sumthin?

I kinda sorta agree with this. I admire anyone who has the skill, as well as the rifle, to consistently hit targets at long ranges. I can only shoot out to 500 yards here on my setup, and it's fun to shoot steel at that range. I have killed a couple of coyotes, and a couple of whitetails at over 400 yards, but I much prefer shorter range shots, believing they are not only more ethical, but a testimony to one's ability as a hunter.

I say get as close as you can, reasonably. If a thousand yards is the best you do...let her rip.

Not really. The reason a lot of guys say 300 yards is "sporting" but 600 yards is "not sporting" is that most guys can make a 300 yard shot (or at least think they can) but can't make a 600 yard shot.

"Ethical limits should be roughly 400 yards for rifles"

i mostly agree with the statement. However, that is my personal position, I don't think it has to be everyones.

The ability to followup and find the game in the territory you are hunting controls me more than any of my shooting limits.

I know a couple of long range shooters at our club that make hits at 1,000 yards pretty easily. i wouldn't be too upset if they started shooting at 600 yards in the right conditions.

In the areas I currently hunt big game I prefer a starting limit of 300 yards. It is hilly and brushy, windy too. Longer shots might be possible but recovery difficulty would increase.

If I were to hunt open prairie (and I might as one of my kids and his family are up there) I could see moving my max starting range to 400 yards on big game.

I do shoot at targets to 500 meters, sometimes further. I also take a few varmints at similar ranges. I guess I am not too worried about how a coyote dies or if I find him.

My experience in shooting at 500 yards and beyond convinces me that there are more variables than I want to contend with at that range, wind is the largest factor.

Was this 1965 Western Idaho by any chance?

Could have been my Dad. Every Saturday morn it was a race to the top of the mountain with his Pennsylvania machine gun (Rem 760 in 30-06) and 1 mag in the gun, four more mags in his pockets, and 1 to 2 more boxes of Win Silvertips in the saddle bags.

Dad liked to brag about his 1/2 to 3/4 mile kills with a semi buckhorn rear and gold bead front sight.

One day, I asked: :How can you aim at a deer 1000 yds away with a 3 moa bead on the front of your rifle. You can not even see the deer or elk behind the bead?"

His answer: You silly, silly boy. You don't aim at the deer. You aim at the rock 20 or 25 feet above the deer's back.

Year after year, decade after decade we revisited the same ridges and canyons. Dad would point to the spots he had shot from and show us where the game had been standing.

Later in life, as good LRFs became available, I was able to lazer a few of his kills. They fell short of his estimates a bit. But, still, some were pushing 700 and 800 yds. Pretty damned impressive for an old Gamemaster with open sights. Only caveat being, he used 12 to 16 rounds and dirt spashes to walk impact onto target.

When I started hunting, I knew there had to be a better way. I set about learning how to make one shot kills.

Dad finally came to believe I could actually shoot, the day he watched me kill five different grouse from the trail coming down the mountain. Each with a head/neck shot. Each paced off at 70 to 90 yds. Each with a 165 gr ballistic tip over 60 gr H4831, and a CCI 250 primer. All from an old Win 670 30-06 with a Weaver 2-7x32.

It’s not my job to tell people how to hunt or shoot. I do know that if you can consistently kill prairie dogs at long distance a deer looks pretty big with a much larger kill zone. Edk

If you've developed the real skills to be confident at "long range" -- and those who practice know where "long range" is -- then take the shot. But buying the gear or having it doesn't necessarily translate into DRT. Get the right tools for the job, learn to use the tools, and get the job done. If you fail, then shame, shame on you.

No deer, antelope or elk that I've shot ever heard the shot before the bullet hit him. Is that non-sporting? Dumbasses.

Knew a guy who was a great camping pardner. Lotta fun to be around, never shirked chores, a great cook, always willing to do whatever was needed around camp. Dispose of garbage or "kitchen" cleanup.....BUT.....he was ALSO well know for his 8 shot, 600 yard kills! 😡

There will be no end to this ethics, stuff it it gets legislated. What is hard for one, to make the shot, is a piece of cake for another. What a nightmare for LEO's ,when trying to say ,the shooter was 10 yards to far.

The longest shot I've made is a little over 900 yds on a hog, have killed a few deer at 4-500, most have been under 200 yd, did almost hit a coyote at well over 1000 using Kentucky windage with the 45-70 guide gun, hit 3 ft to the right of it on the 3rd shot. two members here witnessed that, I was holding what I figured was 75ft over it. It took off before I could adjust for windage.

Ethical? Not?

This isn't what I expect from a good hunter, but for the sake of selling a few guns, Gunwerks thinks this is a good endorsement, even when the kid missed the elk, it was a long range and that is all that mattered. I don't care for the shot and care less for the video...

Seems to me that it would be mighty difficult to find a blood trail if the animal doesn't drop right there. I've had a tough time finding game in sagebrush that were dry. .

How many time is this discussion going to come up on this site? And is it going to get any more ridiculous in the 500th discussion as it was in the first?

I know lots of guys who have a tough time hitting a deer at 50 yards, much less 400, but I would never tell them they should get closer....

And when I'm lining up a shot- no matter if it is 125 yards or 600 yards, I don't really worry too much about what some yahoo on 24hourcampfire thinks I should be doing... but I do think about whether I can make the shot while I am setting up. Do I have a sufficient rest? Is there any obstacles in the way? What is the actual distance and what does my dope sheet say? Can I retrieve the animal from where it will drop? What will I cook for dinner?

A lot of you guys worry way too much about what others do and not enough about how you come off when spouting your "world according to me" opinions.... it's almost as if a lot of guys on this site forget that some of us hunt in different situations than you do and need different skill sets to accomplish our goal...

Well then, you should do what I do. Stand up and sing the first few bars of The Star Spangled Banner before you shoot, that'll make it more sporting.

You can't regulate the range of a shot a hunter takes at big game. I've seen and heard a bunch of terrible shooting by friends and clients that come here hunting. I like when some dumbass says "it was a clean miss" some people get really excited. How the he'll do you miss a deer with a scoped high powered rifle?

Hasn't our very own Johnny Vicarious Burns made a claim that he started the long range hunting trend in a post here.
And saying he was kinda a big deal because of it.

🤣🤣🤣

My thoughts on long range hunting

1) It is not of any interest to me, i prefer to limit my shots to about 200 yards maximu, but this what i enjoy

2) If you enjoy it and are proficient with right equipment, no skin off my nose. Enjoy what you like to do.

3) if you choose to shoot game at very long rabges ( however uou may define that for yourself) please own the right equipment and practice enough to accurate at those ranges.

He invented it according to assskisscamuglia.

Like others, I have seen plenty of "long range" kill shot videos.

Ya, there is a difference between hunting and shooting.

Personally, I would prefer those shooters stick to steel, but I can't name a magical yardage cut-off point.

I do know this: you will not see the video of the shooter hitting the animal in the guts, or ass, never to be found. Those don't get posted.

Actually, there was some retard posting a vid of some elk getting its ear blasted off at 950 yards on this site several years ago.

That might have been John Burns. I seem to recall his long range elk kill took more than one shot… I could be mistaken tho… but not about the retard part…
But in all fairness, he did have kyles balls in his hand when he pulled the trigger

Was at the range with my buddy couple weeks ago. He was getting his rifled dialed in for a Moose/Caribou hunt. He kept fiddling with his turret. I go that thing have a zero stop on it. He goes its not that, its this pos turret I got from Wyoming arms. I started laughing I said the guy that owns that, is a turd and I wouldn't buy chit from him.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What about long range trapping. Is that OK?

I watch NRL Hunter matches on You Tube. Good shooters w/ exotic gear shooting from difficult positions using everything from bags to tripods. It is rare for every stage to get cleaned by any participant. A good hunter should shoot enough to know his limitations and restrict himself accordingly. It takes a lot of practice to know your limits in all conditions of distance,position wind and slope angle. It only takes being honest w/ yourself to pass on shots that are a "probably, most of the time".

YMMV


mike r

Sure! Set the trap house at 100 yards and use an intercom to call for the bird.
Shouldn't be any harder than long range skeeting!

I’ve seen rodeos on both sides of the isle, but as a general rule I think you’re correct… I won’t endorse some jackass aiming 10 feet high and hoping for the best but I think people taking jackass shots like that aren’t as common as some make them out to be. The bigger threat of wounding critters comes from people taking any shot they’re not comfortable with regardless of range: not just those taking “long” shots, whatever that is defined as.

There’s several people on this very thread bitching about long range hunters that I wouldn’t trust to make a 50 yard shot responsibly, based on some of the things they have posted in the past.

I know a couple of the Wyoming people quoted in the OP’s article and they’re not the kinds of people whom I’d take hunting advice from.

All of the above

please define

A: long range

B: hunting

C: ethical

If we can all agree on all three definitions,







then perhaps we can have an "intelligent" discussion.

I killed a deer at a quarter-mile once, and have decided not to press my luck any further. I had been shooting all summer long at nearly that distance, though.
Now, I limit myself to 300 yards. That's far enough. To be honest about it, mostly the deer I've shot have been under 200 yards. I'm happy with that, and have decided to keep it that way. I'm not so anxious just to kill stuff any longer. The closer, the better, as far as I'm concerned.
It sure is fun to wallop prairie dogs at 300+ yards, but I won't do that with deer any more.

Where I hunt, 100 yards is a long range shot. Most of the shots are under 50 yards. That works for me. I am reluctant to bash folks that feel differently.

I'm flying all the way to Colorado in few weeks to hunt.
Does that count?

I'd let you in my camp Bob

For big game, I limit myself to ~3/4 second flight time on the projectile IF I have what I feel is a really good read on the wind. I feel like that's about as long as I can expect a calm/unaware animal to stand still enough for a kill shot to remain a kill shot.

Coyotes, skunks, raccoons, badgers, etc., if I can see them, I'm shooting. I don't care if they're standing still, running, or how far they are.

I think we can all agree that the president of WYOGA is the last person on earth to be discussing hunting ethics.

No, it wasn't John Burns. It was some yahoo that posted a vid of a supposedly 950 yard head shot on a cow elk.

LOL.

I'll just leave this here.

Or let fish and game decide who in violation of the above?

🙄🙄🙄🙄

I shoot gongs to 1000 yards, been to long range shooting schools twice and shoot weekly and sometimes daily since I've retired. I belong to 4 four shooting ranges including Mifflin County Sportsman's in PA where I shoot 1000 yard gongs. I have the equipment to shoot long distance. I shoot that far so I can handle shots at elk and mule deer up to 500 yards, I prefer them at 100-150 yards, it seems like I never get a shot that close. My closest elk kill was 176 yards and longest was 512 yards. I think shooting animals at long distance isn't for everyone, like someone said, if you can do it, it ain't bragging.

I believe bowhunters wound a lot more animals than long range hunters.

How far do I have to practice shooting first?

IMHO, shooting an animal at 1000 yards with a rifle is more ethical than shooting an animal at 40 yards with a bow.

200 yards is quite a poke for my 30-30 or 30-06 carbine. It is also about as far as I can see where I hunt.

So, to ME, 200 yards is long range...... I've killed the vast majority under 50.

When hunting is outlawed it will all be moot.

That's a provocative statement. I'm sensing that you have a bias towards firearms, not sure why. It's very subtle.

If you read the Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook by TJ Conrads (No relation to Jim Conrads) it's considered a classic on the subject.

And the accuracy standard is 8 out of 10 arrows in the kill zone. That's 80% and we're talking 20-25 yards and in.

Is that the Wyoming Yoga Club??

HA! Well, lets just say a paper plate at 100...

Two types of "long range hunting" I have enjoyed a lot:

Spotting game from long distance - usually from a hillside or edge of ridge with the sun at my back - and quietly/carefully working much closer so that I can make a very sure shot.

Helping a relative, who had waited and waited for enough points to get an out of state bull elk tag in so/central CO, who had never been there, and did not have very much time to scout it. With home computer, pulled up many and various topo views of the unit to figure out best possibilities; when he got there talked to him via his sat phone and worked together to locate water and elk access patterns; sorted out best places to be at what time of day, and said "good luck". On early morning of day three he nailed a big bull at the place we decided was most likely. Seeking from 350 miles distant - long range.

Long range to me is 300 yds if a man can hit something past that the more power I have no quarrels

Dammit, a thread like this on a Monday, and I usually don’t have time through the week.
I ain’t got time to read 6 pages, so I’ll stick to my own experiences.
The vast majority of my shots in the last few years have been inside of 100 yards, maybe a few out to 200, but not many.
This is mainly because the territory where I hunt, once open farm land, is being swallowed up by brush.
There’s trails running through most of it, so if I’m not seeing something after a couple or three hours, I walk the trails and usually find one that way.
Back 25 years ago, I could see and shoot out to 6 or 7 hundred yards, and I’ve killed a few at 600 yards plus with my 7mm Rem Mag and an ought six.
The last time I did this was quite a while back. I shot a big doe way down in the hollow, 650 or so yards.
I went down there and gutted it out, put on the rope and started up the hill.
Till I got up there some 45 minutes later, I’m soaked in sweat and outta breath.
My brother was standing there leaning on a tree.
“You could come give a fellow a hand, you know” I said.
His reply was “Phuq you. I know better then to shoot them down there. Now you do too”!
He was right, and I’ve learned to consider the consequences of my actions before I squeeze the trigger.
When you gotta hump them out with nothing but a rope and your own muscle, you tend to start getting picky about where and when you shoot.
Once they’re on the ground they’re nothing but dead weight!
7mm

I hunted coyotes at night with one dumb fuqk who was getting all upset over the fact I was shooting them in the head at night. I told him dead is dead this is a contest hunt and I don't want to spend all night looking for dead animals besides we're in my rig how would you like to grab you're chit walk home? Last time I hunted with that jack ass.

I refuse to take any shot under 400 yards. If I accidentally stumble into an animal closer than that, I'll sneak back until I'm at least that far away.

Whenever the folks start talking "should" or "shouldn't" they eventually bring in the government and get a lot more negative than they ever expected.

Let's let the individual hunters decide their own distance based on their own practice or lack there of and keep the government type people out of our sport.

By the way, what's up with the "fair chase" foolishness. Big game doesn't have a "fair chase" chance against almost any centerfire rifle round. So, you "fair chase" guys get back to throwing a spear and leave us modern hunters alone.

I was wondering if anyone was dedicated enough to his craft to do that. A lot of times it seems like we're into the "Standing Up In A Canoe" syndrome.

It's an opinion by someone that doesn't hunt but would rather be shot in the heart by a bullet than an arrow, ya know, if I had to make the decision for some odd reason.

Quit with logic, assumptions are more exciting! Just scouted deer, and fished smallmouth on the John Day, you would have enjoyed the river!

If the folks involved practice the type of shots i have no problem.

I learned to wind after moving out here 40 or so years ago but keep my shots around 300 max.

Can shoot at longer ranges but mostly shooting at coyotes.

I don't see the fascination in either long range , hunting or shooting.
As a hunter , I was taught to " stick the barrel up its ass".
I am a sheep hunter , a westerner and prone to look at great distances to find game. Finding a ram , means also means a way to make a good play on it.
I practice shooting positions, but shooting on a steep slope, when you are winded is a special challenge.
Best to get as close as you can...I don't know how this is arguable

I think every guy on here knows his limits.
Will they follow their skill set or try to prove they can shoot long range?
Also bench shooting vs in the field are two very different things.

If some guy can shoot consistently moa to 1000 yards and the bullet still has enough velocity and energy to the job. Who am I to tell that guy how to shoot.

I have friends with 5-25 x scopes that I outshoot, and I’m sure they would take that long a*s shot because they are so far zoomed in that they think they can. False hope!

Interesting.

I checked my saved trajactory charts -

30-06, 180AB, 575 yards in 0.75 seconds.
7mmMag, 160AB, 625 yards in 0.75 seconds.

To put this in perspective.

Another angle to consider is that with equipment capable of shooting further and further out, more critters are being killed, potentially. This is aside from the ethics issue and the fact that more people are out there hunting (out west at least).

That means F&G has to reduce harvest for some critters such as mule deer in other ways. Shorter seasons, seasons outside of the rut and the biggest one…fewer and fewer tags.

The hot topic these days is that it is becoming tough to get tags (most especially for mule deer, sheep and the like), so would you all support regs limiting high tech equipment or shot distances if it meant having more tags available?

I don't know why being concerned with other's actions is anything but jealousy.

Democrat types want to force their opinions on others. Conservatives want to be left alone.

The hard and fast limits are strange. A lot of self imposed 300 yard limits.

What if it’s 303 yards, you all pass every time?

Did you post any pics in the fishing forum?

I'm still trying to find someone who knows where the smallmouth are around here.

I can't help with the logic. I have this recurring vision of a nun standing over me with a pointer ready to swing away should I forget it.

All long rangers should spend a lot of time on prairie dogs with their hunting rifles

Hell yeah!

Make them all get within 100 yards if it means I have a better chance at a tag, especially a rifle tag where I live!

Doesn't do a thing for me. I want to get into their living room and do everything right, to the point they walk right in front of me, or within 100 or so yards. The closer I can get, the more I feel I did my homework and beat them at their own game. I can understand longer shots taken out west to a certain point, but I'll leave the long range sniping to somebody else.

Pretty much sums it up. It ain't about intelligent discussion most days. It's about people hearing themselves talk.

Tuesday..

This.

Already starting in NM. The easy button was scopes on ML’s. There is discussions about other technology and season dates, tag numbers are next.

I know a chief engineer who is a bow hunter.
There is at least one smart person then, who thinks hunting is stalking.

Not me. Each rifle I build, I target practice to find my range limit.

And you can't tell me the bow hunters are not practicing to find THIER range limit.

If you can hold a tight group at 100 yards with say a 300wm or a 7mm, at what distance will that grouping expand to 30 inches?

My long range hunting is 3o yards with my bow,I like to see their eyelashes. It's the thrill of the chase,not the kill,that is the real deal.To each their own, it ain't hunting to me.Too many chances of not making a clean kill,the quarry deserves that.See many animals shot to sheet at the taxi's every year.if your gonna shoot it,at least do a good job.

It doesn’t interest me, but I don’t care a whole lot.

I will say, however, with regard to some muzzleloaders it is getting stupid. They make plenty of muzzleloaders now that are 400 yard guns. Wasn’t the original point to offer additional hunting opportunities while not putting the pressure that a rifle hunting would? What is the difference now? Either open it up to rifles or restrict optics on muzzleloaders.

But then again, I don’t want to pretend like I care too much about it.

Some long range shooting that is fun and ethical is shooting flies and grasshoppers that land on your targets when sighting in or checking zero. I’ve saved a few targets that have that satisfying splat on them.

Not for me though I have zero issue with how one chooses to legally hunt.

antelope in the wide open you need a rifle that can shoot a long ways out ,i just got back from a hunt in Wyoming for antelope ,we had limited time and antelope population is down and we had a storm coming in and where the animals live in the open range area you need a rifle that will shoot good with a bi-pod . my buck loper i shot was 460 yards away otherwise i probably would have not got a antelope . i was prepared to shoot out to 600 yards with my rifle and a bi-pod laying down for this hunt.

Just like degenerate gamblers. You always hear about the big scores, but never the crippling losses.

How about sitting inside a tree house with either a gun or bow, is that hunting?
Is sitting on the same stump for years waiting for a 50 yard shot hunting?
What exactly is considered hunting anyway?

So, give or take, I consider 600ish to by my limit, but, the bullet flight time is the "Why" behind that number. Beyond that sort of flight time, the wind call accuracy and the potential for critter movement makes the (or at least my) margin for error exponentially smaller.

Who are Muley Fanatics to think they are somehow empowered to define "fair chase" to this guy?

Sound like democrats.

T Inman;
Good morning my friend, I hope that you're getting weather you can stand up there and you're healthy.

Thanks for the points to ponder, I always appreciate your input and thoughts on these subjects.

It would seem to me that we're likely not too, too far from having optics on a rifle which will take a laser shot for distance and then automatically adjust the aiming point. Then it'll only be the wind the shooter has to contend with won't it?

There is a local chap who is a gunsmith specializing in putting together long distance rifles and in the last few years he's set up a side business teaching long range shooting to hunters and some LEO as well. I have a buddy who is LEO who is involved in some capacity there too.

The LEO buddy reports to me that to a large degree, the class participants are under the impression that they're able to purchase long range hunting ability and confuse it with long range hunting. His point being that the class does not and can not teach them animal body language before or after being hit.

Another young friend of mine who was chatting with me this past weekend as we were chasing a ram for his uncle who is an old and dear friend of mine, is that the trend he's seeing is a bit of a gear race and not a "where are they watering or feeding" sort of approach.

There's a bunch of reasons for this for sure T, likely that the younger folks are working 50-60 hours a week trying to make ends meet as well as being in more urban centers where they simply cannot observe wildlife on a daily or weekly basis, you know?

For sure up here we're now at a no way to accrue points LEH system for local mountain goat and sheep and shorter seasons with more point restrictions for mulies. A couple years back they took away the late bow season which was during the rut, as too many mature bucks were being taken out of the winter range herds.

We're also not allowed to hunt with drones and I want to say that game cams which broadcast live to one's phone might be out too? Not sure about the game cams entirely but there was some discussion about it that I'd need to look up.

Thanks again and all the best to you this fall my friend. We'll both do our best to stay safe out there as we're hunting solo.

Dwayne

It's just a deer.....but I don't like to see them wounded.

I'm reasonably certain that Swarovski and Burris have scopes with a laser on board that will do just that via lighting an LED on the vertical stadia for hold-over. Sig has a scope that pairs to a handheld LRF or their Binoc/LRF combo unit where the LRF ranges, talks to the scope, and the scope lights up an LED hold-over.

I think it's stupid, but I don't really care as long as it's a clean kill. And yes it's still "hunting".

Horse 1 ---- I have that Swaro scope and 1000 yards is easy IF there is no wind and the animal does not decide to take a step during the TOF of the bullet.

There is hunting and there is long range target shooting using live targets.

I am all in favor of the latter if the target is a 2 legged criminal. Otherwise I like to get so close I can smell the animal. Elk HUNTERS know what I mean.

Hey UTP, just how many Elk have you Slayed?

Hehehehe.....

Had a copperhead come slithering across between me and my bow target one evening.
Nailed him at 15yds.

Did you range him first or just instinctively shoot him?

After enough rifles, using Quickload and Quick target, I can extrapolate from from a 200 yard zero, out to a elevation of 8 moa. That is with either turret or reticle.
This makes the 6.5-06 and 7mmRM into 600 yard rifles for me, but the 250 Savage is more like a 400 yard rifle.

Instinct, pure instinct.

In summary:

You shoot/hunt/whatever your way.....and leave me and mine the f uck alone!! Pretty damn simple!!

When the entire country is able to go at least 1 decade without a hunting related injury from a "sound-shot", I'll be happy to let you critique ethics and abilities.

Implication being that if the "animal" is close enough to hear walking for a "sound shot", it's 50yds and under most likely wearing bright orange yet somehow is still mistaken for a game animal. Fix that 1st.

No-schitter of the day.

I interpreted that part of the article differently. To me, the argument was more about the animals not being able to place misses while the "long range hunter" walks shots in.

Dwayne,

I always enjoy your posts. I'm afraid that we've eclipsed those technology predictions by more than you may have imagined...

https://talonprecisionoptics.com/technology/how-it-works/

O yea! A conservative.

I don`t do long range shooting.For me the thrill is the stalk to get as close as possible.On the other hand I don`t figure I should tell others how to hunt.Ethics is always brought up.I don`t know why.Maybe we should all go back to throwing rocks at game as everything man has come up with is unfair to the animal.Just sayin!!!

I have taken numerous elk, deer and antelope over the years and the longest shot/kill has been approximately 280 yards for any of them. Had a chance to shoot at big elk and mule deer at 550 to 600 yards but declined and instead waited to get closer shot, but then again I'm not a head hunter but meat hunter.

“Most big game animals can’t detect a hunter more than 400 yards away. That’s out beyond the biological limits of the animal, and that’s not fair chase,”

"Most" ? - maybe. Tell it to sheep, or maybe antelope (not hunted those).

I got nailed to the board once by a band of 7 rams at 3 miles by the map. Sky-lined myself, I did....they went on high alert and moved from the slope out into the middle of a wide-open basin, and continued to give me the fish eye. Big bruiser in there too.. I was looking back with a 15-45 spotting scope.

One week before season.

I've a 1,000 yard gun (3 shot , inch groups at 300 yards), but under perfect conditions and known range, a 500 yard limit with that gun. Everything else I own is 1.25 or less, and those are 400 yard or less (mostly less) shooters.

And it ain't the guns....

It's all good as long as you are using Chi-Com optics...LOL

That's pretty much how I'm set up.
I don't own exspensive fancy scopes, and I'm not shooting 100s of rounds a year.

But I know where my rifles hit a various distances and my limit is also 600, not a preference, just my limit.

More power to those with more capabilities, good on them.

I throughly enjoyed that video posted earlier in this thread of the kid dropping that bull at 1300+ yards.
It's like his father said at the end, they shoot those distances on their range at home all the time, it wasn't the kids first rodeo, he proved himself.

If you know you can do it, go for it..

Thumbs up here.

Most people can shoot better than they think. They just don't have the opportunity, or maybe desire, to find out. The majority of hunters never shoot a target beyond 100 yards.

"Two inches high at a hunerd is good out to bout as far as you can see em."

3 and a half on my rum was good to 430 with no holdover.

If you want to see a long range chit show.. Come up in August usually the 12-13th drive up the steese hwy to eagle summit sit back and watch.

He shares photos with reputable members via PMs, you haven't gotten yours yet?

Non-reputable[by preference].

I haven't seen 'em either, renegade and Conrad have though.

I see this, but would you rather the non hunters have the conversation for us?

We’ve already lost the anti hunter. Do we want non hunters having the conversation of ethics at 1,900 yards for us? Like it or not, perception is reality.

We are seeing a lot of the same in the states Dwayne…game cameras being outlawed, point restrictions, late season hunts going away, etc. I don’t like new laws at all, but do see that too many animals of certain maturity/species are being taken to meet the population objective goals. They have to do something to reduce harvest and no matter what route F&G goes to accomplish that, hunters will complain.

I don’t have the answers.

Ha! Sit back with a case of beer and just watch.

I saw people on the verge of a fistfight arguing over a calf caribou with 4-5 bullet holes in it. Legs broke, gut shot, shoulder shot, etc. They were arguing that they live off game meat and “you’re taking food off my table”! Many of those guys burned $200 in gas getting their diesel pickup, 30 foot camper and new 4 door UTV up the Steese for that shltshow.

Good times!

LOL.

How to say you know nothing about LR shooting without actually typing "I know nothing about LR shooting".

So called long range hunting is not hunting, as in getting closer, like a puma? Very few times you can't get within at least 400 yards.

I guess to be a real hunter we have to jump on their back and choke them out.

8SNAKE & horse1;
Good afternoon to you both, I hope that your respective locales are getting weather you need and you're both well.

Thanks kindly for the updates on the technology - holy smokes so we're here already then.

I'd read somewhere that they were close but wasn't aware how close and one can't get much closer than there can one?

It seems to me that like drones and trail cameras that call your phone with updates, there will likely be further restrictions put on technology.

Some of the restrictions we'll no doubt find less palatable than others.

I don't fly a drone so drone restrictions don't have an effect on my hunting - as an example. But I do know folks with drones and it's pretty cool what can be done with them.

Yet another example of the increasingly complex world we're attempting to negotiate through I suppose.

Thanks again, all the best to you both and good luck on your hunts.

Dwayne

1900 fuggin yards? No I'm not a fan. I keep my range at 25 yards, I shoot a recurve at all big game.

Or go tribal likes the Polynesians do and jump them with a knife.

We cinder block hunt down here! Find a tree over a good trail, climb up bout 25’ and when a buck walks under….. drop the block! Oh…..we have to tape over the holes in the block so it won’t whistle on the way down! If we climb up another 10’…..that’s long range!

That's an easy one - it's whatever a given person does as opposed to what everyone else does.

Long Range is subjective. If someone is competent and has enough gun to be effective go for it.

Better yet Piute ground squirrels, (or any of their close cousins) locally known as whistle pigs.



Our local variety is about three inches tall when scurrying about on four legs. And Possibly six inches in the sentry position.

Folks used to ask why I would use 200 rounds of 30-06 hunting ammo every other weekend in the spring/early summer killing these rodents.

I always answered: If I can reliably kill whistle pigs from field positions out to 300 yds, I can hit the vitals of big game from those same positions.

No range finders, no turrets. Just estimate the range and hold over or under as needed with a 300 yd zero.

Some years ago I had a list of farmers that wanted their prairie rats cleared out, regularly.
Towards hunting season I'd use whatever hunting rifle I was planning to use for elk/deer that year.
Prove your setup before you take the shot on game.

Long Range? I don't know. Have you proven you can make the shot on game by making accurate shots at distances beyond your personal limit?
Are you guesstimating holdover, distance, wind, your skill or have you proven it in practice?

This state disallows any electronic device attached to the rifle.

But my handheld Leopold RX-1200i LRF, reads range, calculates incline or decline, displays "true ballistic range", and also displays hold over in MOA, mils, or inches based on your BC and MV. All you need do is twist the turrets.

Not much of a handicap.

Interestingly, I have never lasered an animal in the field. I have lasered the terrain before the critter walked under my sights.

We used (many years before a LRF was affordable to a working man) to travel through our hunting terrain in the summer. Ride along the trails and compete to guess range from a spot in the trail to a particular rock. Distance was verified by bullet impact vs aim point.

A bit of that goes a long way toward knowing your range when season opens and game is present.

Moot point now. But that is how we did it in the "old days".

[quote=SLM]I see this, but would you rather the non hunters have the conversation for us?

We’ve already lost the anti hunter. Do we want non hunters having the conversation of ethics at 1,900 yards for us? Like it or not, perception is reality.


When did we have the anti hunters on our side?

The only 2 antis I know went from non hunter to anti in their early 40’s.

Wednesday.

So, the 1000 yard benchrest shooters with the finest rifles in the world using the absolute best components money can buy will hit the 42” square target less than 50% of the time with their very first shot. These are some of the world’s best shooters firing at an exact known distance using a rock solid bench and carefully developed loads for accuracy and very low velocity spread; usually in the single digits.

Yet some neckbeard can ethically kill animals about that far in field conditions with a bipod using ammo they rolled in the basement from a load they threw together using a cold bore sporting rifle. This is likely a moving target and will be visible for a very short amount of time so there’s not time to dig your phone out of your pocket and plug everything into your ballistics app. The range will be an estimate even with a good laser and they almost certainly won’t be shooting flat and in field conditions that are uncontrollable and unaccounted for. The energy of said bullets will only be in the few hundred ft-lb of energy when it reaches it’s intended target so expansion will be nil. YGTBSM if you think that’s ethical. Most of them couldn’t accurately hit something like that if they fired a whole box of shells, let alone one.

Oh the infamous "I got to get my caribou before winter or I'm going to starve" routine. We try to do the winter hunts now days, definitely separates the retards from the tards. Even the winter hunt can be a chit show that's when guys pull out their sleds/snowmobiles they haven't used in 10 yrs, dump some 2 stroke oil and gas in it maybe put a couple of new plugs in the ol gal fire it up and go yep she's good to go. Get up on the steese or taylor get 10-15-20-30-50-100 miles back and ol betty she's backfiring and sputtering and just quits. Hope like hell someone comes by on a good running sled to give you a pull back to the trucks. Back in 2020 we did the fall hunt talk about a chit show lol.. My buddies took off after some caribou, well the guys coming over the other side didn't see them and started slinging lead over my buddies heads. They hit the ground and these caribou start leaving the country and that didn't stop these guy they just kept shooting ph ucking ricochets off the rocks. Then not to long after two caribou pop up down below me they were way out their and these guys just start slinging lead had to be good 900 yds lol. They didn't hit chit.

LR F class X ring is 5 inches so 1/2 moa. The 10 ring is 10 inches so 1 MOA. I will always encourage people to shoot at least one 1000yd match the data one will get form such a match is very valuable. You will see what your rifle will do after 5 shots, 10 shots etc. velocity spread once the barrel gets hot etc.

Haven't read the whole thread but here's my two cents.

Right up front I will concede that if you are not doing anything illegal then how you kill a game animal is none of my business. I know that personally hitting and losing a game animal has always upset me and I hope all hunters feel the same way. Thankfully it has been a very rare occasion for me.

All that said I would personally never attempt these really long shots. If you hit an animal in the vitals from a 1000 or more yards away then that's a really good shot. But it sure as hell isn't a great feat of hunting skill. I'd be just as impressed to see you hit a 10 inch metal gong from the same distance.

The deer I hunt in my neck of the woods are some of the most pressured and hard hunted in the country. Believe me they well know to fear humans. But I can get within 1000 yards of them still riding in a truck. Which begs the question, are these long range hunters taking these super long shots because they have to or just because they want to. Because it seems to me like a lot of this is not necessary and done just to try to impress people on the internet or on TV.

There is also a lot of whitewashing going on. The only long range videos or stories you will see online or on tv are the ones where such shots are successful. Nobody owns up to the times where they blew a deer or antelopes back leg off. But I've seen videos where these guys miss the whole animal by 3 feet with the first shot. If you can miss by much then don't tell me these folks aren't also wounding and losing animals as well.

I can imagine liberals imagining long range shots, "It is basketball from 3 point land"

You've got LR hunters pegged .....

It is the responsiblity of a meat hunter to make as kill as quick and clean as possible.

Practicing long range shooting when hunting is unethical, truth be told we are always practicing when hunting or shooting at targets. Even the best "making a sure shot" can miss, make a mistake, misjudge the wind.

There is no doubt what may be a long shot for some is easier for others. And it takes a lot of practice to be consistent at extended ranges, whatever that may be. Everyone is proud of a one shot kill, especially at distance.

For most hunts it is rare to have only a shot over 300 yards. Conditions come into play and sometimes it is the only shot, everyone has to only answer to themselves if they should take the shot. That applies to animals on the move, low light conditions, thick brush, lots at play.

The equipment we have today has made longer shots reachable by more people, doesn't mean you should take it. We aren't starving and stalking and calling is very satisfying.

Any attempt at regulation would be a disaster, regulation is a result of people not making good decisions on their own.

lol thats funny!

If I see an elk out to 800 yards, if the conditions are right, I take the shot. Dead at 800 yards is just as dead at 100.

For me anything more than 50 yards is long distance shooting because the woods on my property are too thick for any chance of a longer shot.

Those that can, should.... those that can't should shut the fugg up! ha

Those who say they can probably can't.

Nobody HAS to take a shot. That is the shooters call. And what happens next is on them. Good, bad or indifferent.

Can anyone define "Long Range" for me? Can you break it down by weapon? Air Rifle, small game rifle, bow, HP rifle?

IIRC, the NRA breaks down the Ik range into mid range,600 yrds, long range 8,9,1k The reduced course is 200 yrds. That yardage for many people has never been done.

So, what`s "Long Range"?

I remember a saying - don’t brag to me about how far you shot; brag to me about how close you got.

Farthest I have killed something was maybe about 550 yards. Im not sure where the cutoff is, but at some point it becomes sniping, not hunting.

I guess maybe the right philosophy is that I’m going to get as close as I can, but once I am as close I can get, I can make the shot.

People who can't shoot (and many who live somewhere such a shot is not possible - so, in their mind, it's the same everywhere else in the world - dumbfucks) will always say it's unethical/not "actual" hunting/should be illegal or a whole slew of other inane nonsense. They can go pound sand.

If you can hit an 8" circle every time, it's ethical. If it's legal and you harvested a wild game animal, it's hunting.

The ones that really kill me harvest farm animals behind a high fence, claim it's hunting and then decry someone shooting a wild deer at 600 yards.

I digress a bit, but I don’t dial. I shot a mid-size (northern) Buck at about 550. Light was fading and it was pretty much all wheat stubble between he and I - I don’t like to shoot that far, but there wasn’t going to be any sneaking going on. I was using a 7mm Rem Mag with 175 gr partitions, Boone and Crockett Leupold.

He was broadside, and I hit through the meaty part of the shoulders, didn’t hit bone, and it did not exit - stopped under the hide on the opposite shoulder. He ran about 30 yards and dropped dead.

As I said, that bullet didn’t exit - 7mm, 175 gr, starting at about 2950 fps. The bullet has excellent sectional density and is known as a penetrator. The deer was not shocked or obviously hurt on being hit - which is very unusual with a 7mm RM on whitetail. He did die quickly after a short trot, but it did make me wonder about the energy level at that distance, and the use of moderate velocity 6.5mm cartridges with lighter bullets at that distance and farther, and on bigger animals. Which seems to be a craze.

Good point last year I used a 7mm RM, I've used 300 rum's mostly I use 300 wm. This year will be a Ridgeline 300wm with 200gr. Accubonds. I like these types of rounds because you may be taking long shots and in the penetration and power if the shot isn't perfect. And yes I have shot deer with a 220 swift and have seen deer killed with 223's. Accuracy is most important as is you and your cartridge capability.

I jumped on the solid copper bandwagon pretty early on only because you can drive them insanely fast. Hammers are my current favorites in rifle bullets and cutting edge in pistols but I'm always looking for something better. Velocity plays a big role in poking holes in things way off. Precision first of course but when they start out close to or over 4000 fps, it helps a lot.

All of that said - less than 1 percent of the hunters I know are capable of making the shot at ranges past 300 or so. Most of them are also happy with a gun that shoots over 1 moa. I have no use for one that does that. As machining tolerances decrease and manufacturing processes improve, the norm is becoming .5 moa for a decent shooting gun. That's more like it. Incredible times we live in.

I was a 7 rem mag man forever (only because I own one that would should .7 moa with factory crap ammo). Now I'm a 25-06 and 22-250, both ai, man. Spine injuries/degradation have reduced my recoil tolerance to close to nothing so I just have to do the best I can with what I have to work with. 22-250 ai is my deer gun and the quarter bore is my muley/elk/bear gun now.

One of the reasons you shoot the highest BC bullets practical if you are planning on shooting long range. They will retain more energy at longer distances, drop less, be less affected by wind, and are more predictable on impact. Also, one of the other things you should know when shooting long range is the performance envelope of the bullet you are using. If the bullet has a listed performance envelope of 1500fps - 2800 fps and you're launching them at 3400, it is a good idea not to be shooting close range with that bullet or a range beyond where that bullet will drop below the described envelope. Bad things can happen in both instances.... not to put too sharp a point on it, but this is what ballistics tables are made for

Modern solid copper bullets have no up close limitations and hydrostatic shock is an amazing thing - kills like a bolt of lightning if impact velocity is above 2700 fps. Hammer bullets are tested up to 4400 and down to 1800 but they would probably work lower just not tested by the manufacturer.

OMG ! You might have to hike a mile or more to recover you elk ! Are you the type who drives to the base of your stand and climb up ? Plenty of hunters like that.
^^^^^ This is exactly right !

I do not hunt out of stands after driving to them. But, the odds of not recovering game after it travels longer distances from where it was shot becomes more problematic. Even you should be able to understand that.....

Did they go that way due to obnoxiously outspoken hunters who don’t allow others to get a word in, like many on this board are?

We are (again) our own worst enemy.

Long range is high velocity territory, > flat shooting.

A 300winnie or rum shooting a 110gr./125gr. will always beat the slow-mo-joe type loads.

A 3800 fps 110 grainer load compared to big slow 225 grainer [slug] @ 2800 fps, lol yeah right.