Nov 10 1975

No one gives a chit… ph uck this is posted 3-4 times year PH UCK!!!!


Nugget apologizes in advance

Anyone ever work on an ore boat, or sail on the Great Lakes?

This isn’t 1929

Well - today's the day they left Superior WI about 47 years and 90 minutes ago.

I live on the lakes but never sailed on them.

Family friends have, uncle worked in the shipyards a little on them. I'm about 35 miles from Sturgeon Bay where a lot of them lay up for winter and get repairs. I've seen the Anderson here in port and I used to work with a guy whose dad was on a ship out there looking for her that night.

Because people always ask - I don't buy the shoaling theory, I'm a 3 sister's believer.

Ore boats and the product they move still are a thing here on the lakes. Quite regular to various ports actually.

Seas on Lake Superior

Lake Huron

Some scale- lots of freeboard on these before loaded.

Grew up in Duluth, saw the Fitzgerald many times. A good Nor'easter, Lake Superior can get really nautical.. Even worse than a big ocean, 20 years in the Navy, a Typhoon is about the same as the Lake really riled up,

You're a day early

It was and remains a great tragedy.

bwhahahahaha


lmfao

I discovered this article on the loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald only a few months ago. I don't know how widespread this theory is, but it's very interesting and I think it's correct.

Not a long read.

Interestingly enough - the Anderson is currently downbound for Detroit - should be there 1600 tomorrow. She's just off Rodgers City

Worked on fishing boat out of Milwaukee for a few summers.The Great lakes can be far more treacherous then
Cape Hatteras in a very short time.Working on ore boats was not for pussies.

Teal;
Good afternoon my old cyber friend, I hope the day has been treating you well.

Thanks for the additional information on the lakes and the ships.

Until we started visiting family on Vancouver Island 40 years back I'd not seen a ship "in person" and as it did then, it still blows me away how massive they are.

We were on vacation on the Sunshine Coast watching them load barges with gravel and when my wife pointed out that the little thing we saw walking back and forth on the barge was a human, it sunk in just how huge it was. Apparently that gravel pit supplies concrete plants down as far as Seattle as well as Vancouver.

Anyways I believe I can recall the sinking being reported when it happened, but it was understandably a good long time ago and I might be confusing it with another event. Somehow 1975 was a memorable year for me, not necessarily in good ways for much of it.

Being a Canuck of course the song got a lot of airplay on the radio and it'd play on the anniversary of the tragedy most years.

Thanks again, all the best and good luck on your hunts.

Dwayne

My wife's grandfather did as did his brother. Many men around our hometown "worked the boats" as they called it.

My wife's grandfather had sailed with Earnest McSorley at times. McSorley was from nearby, originally and his nephew was a good friend of mine with whom I fished and hunted quite a bit. He's always been quite a trapper, too.

The boats were an everyday presence in my life when I lived up there, not just the big dry bulkers, but also international shipping from all over the world would pass by. As teenagers we would run the river nights in the summer in our 12 and 14 foot aluminum boats (without lights, of course). More than any other kind of vessel, when you ran alongside a big, heavily laden, dry bulker, as close as you dared, you would be overcome with the sense that this thing was much more than the sum of its parts. Often they'd have a hatch open to the engine room at night and looking in as we went by was like a puick glimpse into another world.

Now, here in Charleston, I have to be content with the company of container ships and RORO's. I miss the boats.

As someone who has spent time on Lakes Huron, Michigan and Superior in some very shiddy conditions, I have huge respect for the Great Lakes. I had my boat out on Lake Michigan a handful of times this summer and it's always a mixture of exhilaration, awe and fear.

Sailed Ontario and Huron. Far more dangerous than most ocean sailing.

Fitz may have been the hatch dogs or she may have hit bottom and been holed.

Lightfoot is great singer, this is just one of his great ones.

I believe that about the hatches. I either read something or saw a documentary about the sinking and I thought they said her hatches needed repair and leaked.

There used to be a commercial herring fishery on Lake Superior. I was on the lake that night—tied up at Caribou Cove on North side of St Ignace. 11 ton of herring on board and 2 100 lb anchors down off the stern and bow tied up to shore. We sat up all night listening to the radio chatter.

The Captain reported a line down—which would indicate her back was roached —we thought maybe she pulled in too close to Caribou shoal—hit bottom and broke her back. I could see other explanations as well. McSorly was known as good captain who could keep to a schedule.

That remains the storm by which all others are judged.

One of the worst songs ever.

Gordon Lightfoot knows how to sing though.

Captain Cooper on what he thinks sent the Fitz to the bottom.

Been out crossing the shipping lanes of Lake Michigan in heavy sea smoke chasing early summer steelhead on the scumline a few times. Then you hear the five horn blast from a freighter. I knew we were good, had radar on my boat.
Then there was the time when a BUFF jammed my radar while doing a low level approach on us. Good times!

Well, you don't have to follow it you know.

Enjoyed that, Aqualung. The man is funny.

I was 13. 10 November is my birthday.
I remember Walter Cronkite reporting it.
Then Gordon Lightfoot came out with the damn song they played to death.
Seems like a lifetime ago. The 70's were fun.

That was GREAT. Thanks for posting.

You caught me...lol

I pulled the post because I didn't want to trivialize the event if anyone knew the men on board.

Aqualung

We had 20 footers on the lake last week in that blow. When the wind comes down the full fetch, things get nautical real fast with big waves, tip to trough, in quick succession.

That night in November '75 we lost a surfer here and almost lost another if it weren't for the lifesaving skills of one of their compadres. I had been duck hunting with my grandpa earlier that day and as I remember, we did well.

The theory about the hatch covers and the rogue wave has been around a while. Certainly plausible. As kids in the UP, we used to pick up the taconite pebbles on the railroad tracks from the rr cars going to the docks. They were heavy. I never realized they could hold water. No wonder the Fitz was listing and sitting so low. Godspeed to the 29.

Was working in the Detroit area when it went down, was well covered on all the local TV stations.
Been to Whitefish Point a number of times, once in November, sitting on the shore looking out over Lake Superior on a cold windy Nov. day, knowing that about 15 miles out there is the wreck.
Love the song.

My ex father in law was a crewman on the Fitzgerald. He got off before that trip because his wife was having his 3rd baby. I never knew that until the last time I saw him, a few days before he died. Even had pictures.

If it was from 1980 to 1984 it might have been me. Our Low Level “ Bayshore” Route entered NE WI westbound for a while then due north over N. WI & the UP. Coast out Northbound over Lake Superior turning SE just prior to the shipping lane. Turning Southbound sometime after Whitefish Pt over the Eastern UP & into Lake Michigan. Entered a “ Racetrack” bombing pattern off the East Side of Beaver Island where we would conduct multiple simulated electronically scored bomb runs & cruise / sram missile launches. Bayshore, MI radar tracking station would track and score us. Many times we flew just a few hundred feet and sometimes less over the UP & Lake Superior. I know we scared the crap out of a few boats from time to time

👍
This would have been post '97 when I installed the radar on my boat. My son and I went out of Manistee early in the morning. There was heavy sea smoke (fog) when we left the harbor so the radar was on. We went out about 14 miles and set up our troll. After a couple of hours the fog disappeared but I left the radar on. I noticed the radar spoking, looked around and there was no other boats in sight. We were busy landing fish when the kid yelled at me "dad, look up". There was a B-52 heading directly at us (eastbound) at less than 1000' altitude. He turned to head north when he was a couple of miles short of us.

👍My Brother has a place on Bear Lake. Fished out of Manistee, Pier Port & Frankfurt a few times Beautiful water.

Not to hijack: Used to camp and fish near Wurtsmith AFB in Oscoda back in '60s and '70s during 'Nam. Lot's of night time touch and goes in full AB that lit up the sky!

Great Lakes can go from placid to washing machine seemingly in minutes. Never would go offshore in our small boat because of it.

GA Goober wondering if you were flying out of KI Sawyer

I don't see the problem. If you're too dumb to not watch....

What a stoopid fugking thread

I was stationed at Wurtsmith from '73 to June of '75 and then '78 to '79. Was stationed in the U.K. when the Fitzgerald went down, mom sent me a news article about the sinking.

Was on the Ranger from Houghton to Isle Royale. We didn’t leave at the scheduled time. 6-9 foot seas and building they said. Many sick passengers. The dude who was scarfing down his chili when we were in the canal was wearing it on his shirt next time I saw him.

No. Grand Forks. Would shoot a lot of touch & goes at KI,

In the 1980's I served on the Port Washington WI <lake michigan> water safety patrol crew for one summer. Main job was to assist boaters in distress with engine trouble, etc. Tow them in.

Vessel was an old steel 40-foot ex coast guard boat, twin screw diesel. Got a call for a boat ~7 miles out ese of Sheboygan without power. Weather was a nasty north east with 17 foot waves according to skipper.

Out we went ne for several miles. Crew getting beat up pretty good. Skipper decided to abort the attempt as Milwaukee Coast Guard was called to send one their boats.

Skipper assigned me to post next to him and watch our stern for breaking wave that would swamp us. Skipper did a good job riding the back of wave towards port, didn't want to go over and pitch pole, or slide into trough and get swamped.

Even a 40 foot boat on Michigans 17 foot seas seemed tiny. Got into port, storm kept on stormin', an hour or so later The Milwaukee CG boat pulled into port. Guys had a rough ride. The Sheboygan boat fixed their power issue and made it into port there.

Even though the Fitz was a huge boat, the big storms on the Great lakes couldn't have been fun for the crews.

Not until you showed up.

That is one cold body of water.

Grand Marais, mid-August, 94 sunny degrees ambient.

Ankle foot deep, was ice water.

And I love the cold.

Love the rhyme scheme of the song.

Do we have any type of song for Chernobyl that we could annoyingly post every year on the anniversary?



Nugget….get to work on it

Maybe a Barney n Friends nuclear meltdown song? Or The Wiggles?

Yup.....hey hey chernobal,,,gimme some slobbin on my knobbin,
ok everyone now one more time...gimme some slobbin on my knobbin..

Oh great. Now I've got that drunk druggy's song stuck in my head at bedtime.

Wabi is a sadomasochist.

When I lived in Minnesota, I've been out in my own SeaRay on Lake Superior, but no far out, because you learn real quick, you are a minnow on a Big LAKE.

I've also driven around Lake Superior in November, all 1200 miles or so... from Duluth, up hwy 61, on the 417 around to the Soo, and back on US 2 to Duluth Again....Think I sang the song to myself, all 1200 miles around it.

Also have taken that trip on my motorcycle I use to have back there, but that was in summertime when the weather wasn't so intimidating.

Its a wonderful trip to make... for those who never have, I'd highly recommend it.

Superior is ONE big Friggin Lake.

It's a miserable story song.

Boxcar Willie bad...

In Wisconsin back in 1975/76, My 7th grade Homeroom teacher was Miss Shelly Fitzgerald... She was a beautiful blond about 21... It was her grandfather the ship was named after... None of us realized it until she told us... The story and the song meant a lot more to us after that... Us boys were all bummed out when she got married and moved away... The girls cried...

I’m a northerner and have seen first hand what Superior, Michigan, and Huron can do. I have family and friends in the commercial fisheries and on the boats.


For my money…Lk St. Clair is far and away the most treacherous. [bleep] that lake

I just spent another week up in the UP and down to Traverse City, St Clair, all around Fishland and everywhere inbetween, hitting the vineries .... every time I go up there someone is playing that song and using Lake Gitche Gumee in one way or another.

I like the edibles and smoked fish I always bring back but ... that damn song, which I've heard a 1000 times since my college days in the 70s, sometimes gets old. It's always been catchy I guess, to some degree, but only-to cucks, drunks, homosexuals and druggies.

We stayed in St Clair this year, downtown AirBnB. Love that place fwiw. Took the cruise.

a buddy I worked with down in Minneapolis, was from Two Harbors. His dad was an exec with one of the Ore companies out of up there.
Arvid worked on those boats as a crewman after High School, before heading to college at the age of 21... ( 1971 ) He had done a few trips on the Fitzgerald. He showed me a lot of pictures he took working on those big ore boats. He was a cook's assistant, but made a lot of money doing it.

He had some pictures that were of interest, of large bull moose swimming out in Lake Superior toward Isle Royale. Moose from the Canadian side, will drop into Lake Superior and swim the 45 miles out to the Island. They spend the summers there and then swim back in the fall to the Ontario Side.
I've been out to Isle Royal hiking and campfire several times, but that was from the Minnesota shore. Its only like 15 miles or so out there from Minnesota... yet like 45 miles from Michigan's UP or the Ontario Side.

The waters on the Great Lakes are both awesome and intimidating., especially Superior, and that is when its just calm. To think of the French Canadian trappers who use to come out that way working for the Hudson's Bay Company. Crossing in those long canoes, made it out there from Montreal. The St Lawrence Seaway from the Great Lakes to the Atlantic is another awesome body of water, for having land on the shores. Its a big river.. much bigger across than the Mississippi. Like 70 plus miles across up on the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec. Spent a lot of time up there in my younger days, during college and just after, before I went on Active Duty. Another trip that is just awesome.

In the summer of 2021 I spent a great deal of time in downtown Duluth. Used to watch the big ore ships come in, you could get a schedule on arrival times. The new ones are just huge, 1200 feet if my memory serves me right. Beautiful huge lake and beautiful country surrounding it.

I just checked, the biggest ones are 1000 feet.

1000 ft maximum will fit thru the locks.
Seafire—whole lot of Canada closer than 45 miles to Isle Royale.

Probably because LSC is shallow and can get worked up pretty quick.

I’ve had part of large boat fishing the north shore these Covid years. Pop up storms are a bother for sure but when that wind swings the wrong way with force time to beat oars to shore.
Ive not been caught out but I’ve been out the break lines to watch the water come in. Amazing how big that lake can get.
As big as the lake is it’s hard to believe the water temperature swings, the wind moves massive temp currents around.

RIP to all who have gone down on that lake, there have been a bunch.

Osky

What was flying out of there in those days? B-52s or F-111? Was a bomber base as I recall.

My Grandfather was a commercial fisherman on the north shore of Lake Superior. He built a rail system to pull the boats up a small stream. I spent a lot of time up there as a kid hunting and fishing.

Cool.

I went to school at NMU and knew when they were doing touch and goes. Don't know how many of you guys were in the air or how far apart you were but many days of seeing B-52s lining up their approach over the lake in Marquette on their way to Gwinn.

I have sailed on every body of water on this Earth for over 60 years....some of the fastest building storms are on Lk. St. Clair....I have lost more friends the Lk. St. Clair than any other body of water....this summer a neighbor in a fast building early summer storm just move on the Lake the summer before and didn't know or understand how powerful the Lake can be......

When I arrived on base Wurtsmith had the B-52H and KC-135s. They had an ADC Detachment that flew the F-106 (most likely the planes you saw with afterburners) that was deactivated a week before I arrived.

First, in an attempt to stay with the thread, thanks to all with the personal experiences discussed herein. I, for one, learned a lot.

Second, my joining the thread drift:

There appear to be two major themes running through members' utilization of these forums. There are many more minor ones; but, these seem to be the major two.

1) Always an interesting topic. I think I'll open the thread and see what those in the know and with personal experiences have to say.

Or

2) Hey, look, a thread in which I have no interest at all. I think I'll open it and let everybody know that I have no interest and therefore it sucks and I'll go crap all over it.

I've always thought the wreck was interesting. Thanks for stories about the lakes.

A local artist made this drawing of the Fitz. Here she is meeting the Anderson and both are about to begin the journey down before the lake starts screaming.
The Fitz was this close to the Anderson when the latter left Two Harbors. I track the Anderson and try to catch it passing whenever I can.

She's entering Detroit right now

Well said, Big Sky.
I have been thinking along the same lines.
If a topic is of no interest to you, just move on.

Too many options, man, I can’t figure out which one I am. I really like the song.

If I had to pick just one, I’d go with drunk.





P

I'll be at the Split Rock lighthouse tonight for the ceremonial lighting.

30,000 mariners' have lost their lives on the Great Lakes...

Heard more than a few people say that about Lake St Clair this year ... we were up there the week of October 21st again this year. There were still boats in the water, it was warm. Weird weather up there for that/this time of the year. Everyone was saying the lake was due-to take some boats this year. We spent time in Charlevoix too .... I like that lake.

Listen, I get the Edmund Fitzgerald fascination. I actually owned the album in college and was called a geek for it ... but everyone wanted to smoke weed, get stoned, and listen to that album back then when we all thought we were going-to live forever. As time has passed I came to learn that there have been tens of 1000s of souls lost on those lakes and for equally as tragic and mysterious reasons. Over 30k lost in ships gone down and 1000s and 1000s more simply drowned while recreational swimming. Hell, we were told that these past couple two or three years Lake Michigan alone has had record numbers of drownings.

There was the Great Storm of 1913 ... drowned hundreds in downed boats and ships within a couple of days. There is the infamous but little known Great Lakes Triangle where, inside its border, hundreds of ships have mysteriously gone down.

So thread drift what it is ... we do this same old same old Fitz thread every year .... because of a song and because the Fitz was the biggest of them. It never changes. So I wonder why anyone would bitch or moan or complain when, for once, we take a moment to learn a little bit more about THE 30,000+ OTHER sailors who have lost their lives on those lakes .... not just Gitche Gumee.

Sheeesh, the way we pigeon hole ourselves sometimes when there are so many oppotunities to expand our horizons within the scope of a particular beat-to-death topic.

BTW, fwiw, in terms of shipwrecks, Gitche Gumee, while being the largest, ranks fourth .... that's right, fourth fewest shipwrecks outta four great lakes. Few know that and ever fewer ask why because they're too busy paying yearly hommage to the Fitz ... because of a song.

Anyways, whatever. I love the country up there and those lakes ... and I'm a southern boy to the bone but, those lakes and that country are absolutely fascinating. I wish more people would take the time to learn about them.

The Fitz get's play because it was 75 and by then you'd think that a modern steel ship just couldn't sink on a lake. The song is why people talk about it now but why was the song written?

I get it - there are a ton more interesting shipwrecks to talk about but most people aren't just that well versed on the Bradley, The Eastland or The Elgin. Hell the Morell's aft section steaming along after splitting in two is crazy but most don't know about it unless you're a boat nerd. Most aren't boat nerds.

Live ceremony

Touché Teal. Well-stated.

Great book about the Daniel J Morrell .... perhaps the most bizarre incident in the history of the Great Lakes imho.




The Bizarre Story of sister ship, the SS Daniel J Morrell, et al

Thanks for posting, Wabigoon.

Well, without the song, few would be aware of ANY maritime catastrophes of yesteryear, so I reckon we should be grateful for the song, no?

The USCG Ice Breaker Mackinaw "Mighty Mac" does an annual Christmas tree run from the UP down to Chicago to commemorate the loss of the Christmas tree ship Rouse Simmons. She was lost with all hands delivering Christmas trees from Manistique to Chicago in the November gale of 1912. She was a schooner that was heavily overloaded with over 5000 trees. 3 other boats were lost that day too.

Captains in those days tried to make extra $ by extending the season. Hence, the late run in November. Her keel was laid in the 1860's and many sailors didn't think she was seaworthy anymore. The Captain gave it a go anyway. She lost two men and a small boat along with some of her cargo lashed 8 high to on her deck sometime in the night. She lowered her flags to half mast as a sign of distress. Surf boats were launched but she was never heard from her again until a bottle washed up on shore with a note written by one of the doomed sailors. "Friday...Everybody goodbye. I guess we are all through. During the night the small boat washed overboard. Invald and Steve lost too. God help us". Some 12 years later the Captain's wallet washed ashore. They were finding Christmas trees washed up for years on the Michigan shore.

I think that song is a tribute to the 30K+ lives and 6000 vessels lost on the Great Lakes. There have been some bad storms - mostly in November. 1905 - 29 boats lost 36 lives, 1913 - 19 boats lost 250 lives, to name a few. In 1989 the USCG Cutter Mesquite ran hard aground and tore her hull up on a reef off the Keweenaw. She had just pulled the buoy marking said reef to end the season. She's still there.

I'm about 25 miles from where the Rouse Simmons sits in some deep, tech dive depth water.

Record breaking temps today, was 72 here and in TVC, never think it was Nov. 10th calling for a high of 38 tommorow.

There is always Radioactive by the Firm

Gitche Gumee don’t mess around.