A buddy swears by them....especially in the winter.

Who uses them? What do you use?

We blend 50/50

50/50 what

Number 1, and number 2 Deisel fuel.

Stanadyne in the old Ford IDI diesel and no.2

Powerservice and no.2 in most everything else.

50 50 no.1 and no.2 in John Deeres plus powerservice or straight no.1 and powerservice if it gets really nasty.

If it's really nasty...most everything else gets a shot of no.1 as well.

Oh fugg...South East Missouri? Haha!


You taking a trip out of the tropics this winter?

Lowes diesel additive

Local deisel shop likes Schaeffer products, so I've been using their fuel additive and synthetic oil.

Is this for diesel pickups, or equipment using red dye?
For my two diesel pickups, I have had good luck with plain old Diesel #1 in winter, down to -20F or a touch colder. Never had gelling issues with it in those temps.
At -20F and colder, I put an additional additive in. Power Service Diesel is good but honestly I have had good luck with regular Seafoam too.

Oh no.

You're not running red dye in your on highway vehicles are you?

Not that there's anything wrong with that .

Number one, wit stanadyen or powerservice ..the only thing burning in mine..

OP honestly you shouldn’t need much in the way of fuel treatment in your area. The temps just aren’t cold enough to be an issue. Low sulfur fuels are much more resistant to gelling than the older stuff. I live in Michigan and we just don’t see freeze ups like we did before low sulfur. Using fuel from a reputable station is the best bet.

If you are worried about water contamination powerserve products are good quality. That is what we use at the Mack Volvo Hino dealer I work at.

Do not over treat. Some of the filter medias do not like that. Use what the treatment manufacturer recommends.

Fuel treatments do absolutely nothing to increase mileage, add longevity to your fuel system, or any other wild claims some of them make. They are to disperse water and improve flow in low temps. Some are specialized and kill algae in your tank. Hope you never get that.

Just for fun there is no such thing as premium diesel. All # 2 and #1 fuel have cetane ratings they have to conform to. Winter blend may vary a bit depending where you are in the country.

I think it was here, I'm told not to use a blend. and an additive together.

Cant go wrong with "Power Services"!
I use the regular during the summer and the "Heat" products during colder weather.
I never have freeze ups.

I travel for work every week.

Fraser Michigan and Clyde Ohio are places I'll drive.

Guys

I'm new to diesel and don't know the difference between #1 or #2 and can't recall seeing an either or while traveling

The jist is (some details may need corrected) Diesel #1 is a winter blend, with anti gelling additives. Diesel #2 is a regular on highway diesel that most places sell in summer, in cold areas at least.
Different states or even counties may require certain additives, for various reasons all year long.

Red dye (or 'high sulfer') diesel fuel is non taxed (where I am from anyhow) and only to be used in vehicles on non public roadways. That, plus tractors, generators, etc. I believe the sulfur levels were reduced for emissions reasons.

Refineries typically produce No. 2 in the summer, and a 'winter blend' in the winter. Some places cold enough just get No. 1.

Ted,
Biggest thing is cloud point and gel point, No. 1 occurring at a lower temp.

A lot of diesel drivers like to add cetane improvers. You can think of cetane being analogous to gasoline octane. Higher cetane claims to improve starts and performance.

Previously posted awhile back.

Remember the PS mantra:

White in Winter

Silver in Summer

I use Lucas in farm diesel when they fill up tank, and in my diesel trucks at pump, used it a long time.

I use Amsoil Cetane Treatment and Fuel conditioner.

Outboard motor oil for lubricity for the pump.

Nothing mentioned above lubes the pump.

Never , ever use Power Service.

I use the silver Powerservice pretty much year round (freezing not much of an issue). I DO get better mileage with it (probably cetane boost). Probably .5-.8 mpg. No, that’s not a bunch, but it’s MORE than enough to pay for itself.

Powerservice with cetane boost .

I was in the wholesale fuel business for 25 years. ULSD fuels are much inferior to even the LSD it replaced. It has a lubricity problem, varying cetane numbers, and just overall inferior to yesteryear. I'm a big believer in additives, and use Hot Shot Everyday Diesel treatment every 3rd tank or so. I'll throw in an Amsoil all in one every now and then in the Winter.

Back in October we started filling up loader tractors with #1.

Sure it's around another 50 cents a gallon but we really don't burn much dyed right now so it doesn't matter.

Do you mean Howes?

I always use Optilube XPD in our 2007 Ram 3500 and all of our other equipment (generator, tractor, dozer, excavator). We tend to keep our equipment for a long time and all of our equipment was made before the ULSD requirement came to be. Our 07 Ram was fortunately built in Nov. 2006 so was one of the last 5.9L built. I use the XPD mostly for its lubricity.

USLD certainly has a lubricity problem, but even 5% biodiesel brings the lubricity WAY up. Now, before you go run out looking for biodiesel, the stuff will also gel like nothing you’ve ever seen before in cool temps. Best keep it below I-20 in the winter time, or treat the ever-loving bejeebers out of it.

I used Stanadyn, every tank. Lubricity is the problem that really hurts diesel engines these days, or so my mechanic brother tells me.

Why did you say “oh no”? I had a pump rebuilt by a company in Oregon who is affiliated with Stanadyne and naturally they recommend Stanadyne. I also use Power Service products for diesel. For gasoline I use Seafoam, mainly because John Deere recommended it for my Gator. It has worked well in stored gasoline. The company who rebuilt my pump cautioned against using anything with alcohol in with diesel fuel. Seafoam says it can be used in diesel fuel but it contains alcohol. Is that why you made that comment?

He needs a little lube in his tank.

Schaeffers Diesel Treat... raises cetane, increases lubricity in todays fuel... makes the the 7.3 purr like a kitten, gets a dose with every fill up...

Nothing but the best for my diesels.


https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/diesel-fuel-system/bg-dfc-with-lubricity-hp2/

Howes Diesel treat.

Ugh.......


Real diesel has to be several degrees below zero to gel.
ULSD can gel at 17, above.
The lower the sulfur, the quicker it gels.

Maybe you don't see that?
Good retailers take care of it by treating all fuel.

Hard lessons were learned the winter ULSD was introTemps.

Was hauling fuel at that time, a lot of scrambling and scratching to keep things
going. It didn't hurt us, we always treated. Our boss was a conservative worry wart,
we were far enough ahead. Our over treatment protocol covered the issues, but only
on the margins. We were using a Schaefer treatment, using their double treatment
protocol. It didn't provide the amount of gel protection forecast, but it was enough for our single digit negative temps.


There were other outfits not as prepared, and a lot of stuck trucks.

A garbage outfit installed tanks and we filled them in early November.
Their final permitting came through just before the cold spell.
Every truck they had was filled with summer fuel. And gelled up.

22 years and over 350k miles on a 2001 Cummins and it is still running great. Usual deep winter cold at 8k ft. for most of those years but started immediately every single time and never any fuel gelling or contamination/water problem. Never had to open the fuel drain under the filter, and never used a drop of additive through all those years. Be sure to get good/clean fuel.

Down here in the high desert had some smoking at idle problems with a the 2003 Duramax. Added Stanadyne and it did a bit better, but then changed a worn HP pump and tubes/ejectors and back to great running. No additives now.

A person needs to find out if their engine needs an emulsifier or demulsifier. One is for engines that has a water filter and one that doesn't. Putting the wrong one in doesn't do much good.

Before I had my old Ford 5600 tractor engine overhauled it was real balky about starting on cold days. Here in Louisiana that is below 35F. I would pour in 5 gallons of kerosene and that helped a lot. After the overhaul it fires up on even 20F days without a problem. This summer I went against 24HCF advice and used about 5 or more gallons of filtered drained oil in the fuel. Sometimes as much as 1.5 to 2 gallons in a tank. So far ,no problems. I figure the fuel filter will catch any dirt. I've been told by people I trust that with today's diesel in that old tractor a little oil or trans fluid in the diesel will help.

I had some dickhead tell me I was crazy when ULSD came out and I said it gelled worse than LS.

The next winter he was back in the store telling everyone that they better buy filters and 911 and treatment because he had found that ULSD sure seemed to gel easier.


We all laughed at him.

"I've been told by people I trust that with today's diesel in that old tractor a little oil or trans fluid in the diesel will help."

Then you shouldn't trust them anymore. Used diesel oil or trans fluid doesn't belong in the fuel tank of any vehicle.

As we rarely get cooler than -30 F around here……I use nothing other than “blended” or winter fuel!

I do however, though likely not needed, add 8 ounces of 2 cycle oil with each fill-up……summer or winter! memtb

It gets plenty cold at times to gel diesel.

When I was using diesel trucks I used Howes.

One old timer always used Marvel. Not sure if the Marvel did much for anti-gel but he liked the lubricity it offered.

Ted, when I’m visiting down south in the winter, I know that I’m not buying “winter blend” fuel…..I will put an additive (most any name brand to cold weather service should be fine) in with each fill-up. I do this until I’m far enough north that I “know” that I’m getting “winterized” (blended) fuel. Then……it’s fuel and go! memtb

There is a lubricity chart on the internet comparing several different additives to increase lubricity of ULSD. IIRC two cycle oil and ATF were best. For whatever reason used motor oil was not very effective. I would be cautious using anything other than commercial additives in the high pressure common rail systems. That would be after about 1998.

Didn't see where he mentioned "used" oil at all.

Hence the reason that I use 2 cycle oil! I buy by the gallon at Walmart and refill my little 8 ounce bottles when needed! Again, it may not help…..but, it darn sure can’t hurt! memtb

I actually do the same thing, with my 1984 Blazer with the 6.2. But I make sure to use the marine TC2 (older) or 3 rated oils as they are ashless and burn clean in water cooled engines. Dunno about the air cooled 2 cycle engine oils, which may have different chemical compositions.

I have learned over the years that hydraulic fluid is a good additive to the fuel, but have never tried it.

Don't think I would use used diesel oil in my vehicle, unless it was filtered/centrifuged first.. like down to 1 micron. But there's guys that do it.

Just my opinion and may or may not be true but I think fuel additives are more effective in fuel or vehicles that don’t get used regularly.

Here ya'll go again...

https://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

It's a PDF, so save a copy.

"This summer I went against 24HCF advice and used about 5 or more gallons of filtered drained oil in the fuel. Sometimes as much as 1.5 to 2 gallons in a tank."

ATF contains plastics that can clog up fuel injectors.

Interesting study. Very informative, thanks for posting

Too fine for filters?

I use what my mechanic recommends. Mostly. It is also what Cummins recommends- just looked it up. I'm good.

Looks like the Schaeffer additive my diesel shop recommends scored higher than some of the other commonly available products I see/read about. I'll stick with it...

They also have a reddish/orange specifically designed for diesels on cold climates where water in the fuel can be a problem.

I got a tank of skanky, water polluted diesel once!
It was like riding a bucking bronc down thr highway.
A good shot of PS cleared up the problem right off!

NOTE:
"IF" you arrive at a service station and a delivery truck is "dropping" fuel, before you pump diesel, ask the driver if he "dropped diesel"!
Due to it's higher viscosity, the trash and moisture stirred up by dropping diesel remains in suspension longer than in gasoline!
A real good way to get a tank full of trash and water!

Are there diesel engines that do not have water separator fuel filters?

Don't think I've seen one.

The red/orange is the PS 911?

Supposedly to ungel fuel that is already gelled.

I've seen that before, but had no bookmark. Thanks.



Takeaway:

CONCLUSIONS:
Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an
HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the strictest requirements
requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association.

Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an
HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for
maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel.

Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to
perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This
is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other
components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities
behind these poor results will be investigated.

Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be
considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a
+/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant.

Red dye (or 'high sulfer') diesel fuel is non taxed (where I am from anyhow) and only to be used in vehicles on non public roadways. That, plus tractors, generators, etc. I believe the sulfur levels were reduced for emissions reasons.[/quote]


Red dye, off road, fuel does not contain high sulfur content. It is the same as highway diesel. However, there is no road tax paid on it. Hence the red dye to identify it. If it had high sulfur you could not use it in any diesel equipment built after 2007. It plugs the dpf in short order. We are talking a few hours.

Sounds like Biodiesel is the runaway winner…….

They learned from the Olds 350.

Depends on the engine and time of year.
The injectors in my old powerstroke need lubricant. ATF works, currently using 2 stroke oil.
The theory is the fact that it is meant to burn.

For anti gel in the winter in Fairbanks I have been using what Ford sells, I believe it is Stanadyne.

In 20 plus years of year round driving I have only had a problem once when I forgot the additive.

I use to run #2 heating oil year round, currently heating oil is #1 only.
Soon to be low sulfur.

Of course...with the removal of the sulfur...trace amounts of water are not near as deleterious.

There are no medium/heavy duty diesel’s currently made , that I know of, that do not have a water separator of some type. Usually it is part of the primary fuel filter. My 40 years of dealer experience is with Volvo, Mack, Cummins, Hino, and Mitsubishi engines.

Water is hard on the old PLN ( pump, line ,nozzle) and unit injector fuel systems. It is death for any thing with a common rail. At 27,000 psi water is actual abrasive.

If you really want some fun put def in your fuel tank. The last Volvo I repaired that had that done was on the far side of 15 grand. No sir, sorry, warranty does not cover that. Not even if the truck only has 800 miles on it.

That just sounds like horseschit to me. I used it for years in a 7.3 powerstroke.

Furthermore automatic transmissions have filters and small orifices, your saying ATF will plug a fuel filter but not a transmission filter!
Nonsense

Them olds 350 diesel "DX" blocks make good racin' engines when converted to gasoline...

A test of additives in the past couple of years would be nice, not one's almost 20 years old.

For all I know you may be right. What do you think about the use of new oil, light weight hydraulic oil, or outboard 2 stroke oil as an additive for more lubricity? Bear in mind I'm using a 1978 Ford 5600 tractor with good compression since it was overhauled and I usually don't put much over 300 gallons of fuel a year through it. I change the fuel filter about once a year and notice very little dirt so far.

I have been using ATF in my 99 7.3 since 2004. It now has 316,000 on the original set of injectors and purrs like a kitty cat.

I'll take your word for it. I have been out of the daily driver diesel game for quite a while but back when I was, I was always told red dye was non highway use only and because of such, didn't have the sulfer restrictions.

I believe the sulfer content is also a state by state, county by county thing too, so there can be a lot of variability in the discussion.

I ran as a pilot car for 14 years driving my own truck. I ran an 01.03 and an 06 Dodge with the Cummins. I've run most of the additives and different oils and really didn't notice any difference in how my trucks ran so I quit adding anything to the fuel. I do all of the work on my trucks and logged over 700k miles between the three trucks. I am very particular about where I get fuel, and only use stations where big trucks go. When you leave Deadhorse late at night all by your lonesome you're rig has to run or you're going to be really cold. It's a ten hour run to Fairbanks and five to Coldfoot.

I believe the sulfer content is also a state by state, county by county thing too, so there can be a lot of variability in the discussion.[/quote]


Nope sulfur content is mandated by the EPA. There would be no way for the states to control what is being sold. There is no field test that will determine sulfur content.


As for putting trans or hydraulic oil in diesel fuel it is a big no on common rail , and late unit pump , systems. The fuel filters micron ratings have gotten incredibly small as fuel pressure has gone up. Way smaller than a trans , or hydraulic, filter. It doesn’t cause issues in older stuff as the filtering capability is much less.The problem lies in the additive package of the added oil. Compared to a fuel system , other systems, are comparatively filthy. The additives to combat this can cause issues with the media. Seen it happen early common rail , and , late unit injector systems. The filter media in the primary filter would be black and possibly collapsed. It does take a lot of added oil to cause this. However, by the time you change the lubricating qualities of your fuel, you are past this point. A gallon of trans fluid, in 300 gallons of fuel, is not likely to cause harm. However, it is not going to do anything for you.

Diesel fuel provides all the lubrication the system needs. Early failure of fuel system components is caused by contamination. This can be abrasive contamination, or , water.

Southern States here sells 50 Cetane at the same coin as most places sell 40.

I am convinced the HP and MPG improvement is better by 10%+

Older 12 valves and 7.3s run on about anything above goat piss... same with older equipment.

Newer stuff... use GOOD FUEL and Stanadyne (or equivalent) to improve lubricity and keep those ultra high pressure injectors happy.

A 12 valve injector is $25-$40...

A 6.7l injector ain't...

What I meant was some states/counties go beyond what the EPA mandates. They’re more restrictive than federally required.

I run a 91 Cummins and a 99 Power Stroke.

I know next to nothing about newer diesels, nor their emissions requirements or details.

Yep.

We only run additive when it's cold.
Millions of miles are driven with no additive.


Daily additive is unnecessary I believe.

The older mechanical systems prior to about 1998 will run on a variety of fuels including vegetable oil, hydraulic, oil, #2 diesel, #1 diesel and kerosene which is similar. I have always considered additives such as Stanadyne a fuel preservative to prevent bacterial growth and fuel degradation. Not sure about the lubricity but can’t hurt. He is right about the injectors. Electric injectors are pricey.

Not poking, simply asking but "how?" How can a state/county mandate a more restrictive sulfur content AND get it from the refinery which may be several states away?

Great question. I am unsure. I am just relaying what I have been told by others in the fuel industry and my experience includes aviation fuels, which may throw a wrench into things.

Maybe particular jurisdictions have regs affecting the import of fuel to some central processing facility by whatever means, treat it however needed then distribute it to their sell point or vendors?

Some counties/states require certain octane levels (I believe Montana, or at least particular counties there mandate 87 octane minimum in regular fuels (excepting that flex fuel cap) and also require some sort of additive). Some areas restrict ethanoled fuel (Alaska, I believe). Other areas mandate ethanoled fuel (Kali, I believe, or did at one time anyhow).

Maybe the same sort of distribution/treatment process is done with what I just typed above? I dunno….

One of my truck shop customers back in the late 1970's had a special fuel additive- - - -5 gallons of gasoline in a 100 gallon tank, topped off with Diesel fuel. The old B-73 Mack he drove always ran well, and the injectors stayed very clean.

Howes because todays fuel doesn't lubricate sufficiently

I have a 96 powerstroke, I did not buy it new, but have owned it for 23 years. It was a daily driver until the last 5 years.
Initially I used ATF in the fuel, a couple of ounces each tank on fill up.

Then, for one reason or another I quit.
I started having a noisy injector on startup, it would go away as it warmed up. I didn't really know what it was and more or less ignored it.
Overtime it got to the point the noise would not go away.

Asked a local diesel shop about it, he asked if I was adding lubrication to the fuel?

I was headed to Homer the next day and added some lube to the fuel. By the time I got to Homer (600 miles) the noise was gone, I have used some type of additive ever since and it has never come back and I have never changed that injector.

From my experience, a couple of ounces of lube is essential in a old PS.

Since then fuel at the pump is all low or ultra low sulfur, pretty sure its pretty dry fuel in terms of providing lubrication. I can only assume the newer diesels are designed to operate with out lube.

Using heating oil in a low sulfur diesel will cause expensive headaches very quickly.

I see the same treatments in Ontario I do in Iowa.

I started using Optilube about 8,10 years ago. I one and a half times dose. I noticed the biggest difference in my 2001 5.9. Quicker starts specially, in cold weather not that it ever had a problem starting :-) my 7.3 and 6.0 Run great start great, Can’t tell you that there was a Difference but they run great so I just keep using it. Little pricey, though.

All Y'all are welcome for that PDF, and I've posted it before on here and other forums many times. They spent a lot of time & money doing that study, so it's best to spread it far and wide. For myself, I use TCW3 two stroke oil AND Power Service DK & CB in every fill up. It cost about $5 per tank at today's prices, and both of them can be found at any truck stop or walmarx. I've noticed minor improvements in MPG and engine noise, but since my 7.3L PSD wasn't designed for ULSD it makes me feel better about adding a little lubrication for the fuel system, as bio diesel ain't available everywhere.

Some of the comments tells me some fellers didn't look at that.

If you use Biodiesel exclusively, I know it costs a little more , but the grease from the FF's lubricate the crap outa yer diesels.

1. Lubricity
2. Cetane improvement
3. Injector cleaning
4. Water emulsification/de-emulsification
5. Anti-gelling

Any other reasons one might want to treat diesel fuel?

1 and 2 I think everyone can use. Probably the easiest way to keep (3) injectors clean is to use it like a truck and run it "hot"; not as a grocery getter. I won't use an (4) emulsifying additive on my '11 Superduty to avoid water in any form going through the injector pump and injectors. That's what the water separating filter does. (5) Anti-gelling additive seems to be location specific.

The tests that have been done seem to be focused on lubricity primarily. PF was decent regarding cetane and gelling.

Gawd...you guys must change injectors about as often as you get new tires!

Haha!

Who does?

I missed the part where folks saying they changed injectors?

You miss a lot.

People who don't run 50-50 diesel to ATF.

You been drankin jimmy?

Just finished off a 12 pack of Heineken here.
And the T'givings peace pipe has been lit... Or what I heard on Facebook.

What were you all talking about again?

Not yet.

Just got done gutting my son's first deer.

Most drillers of the time in the oilfield ran them as "crew cars" on off-road, drilling rig diesel. For that reason, they were popular in oilfield towns because many non-drillers in those towns ended up driving them also. Despite their terrible reputation and an ensuing class action suite because of it, people in those towns would mount a seperator up near the radiator brackets to filter water out and with a few other tricks, run them 250,000 miles plus down oilfield roads without problems and really good fuel mileage. I do remember my mom's 1982 Olds 88 gelling during a snow storm bringing us to school. I don't remember it getting below zero in that town, so I'm guessing it was 5 or 10 degrees, though could've been colder. Back then, some would mix ATF as an anti-gelling agent.

I remember the 5.7 diesels being in Oldsmobiles, pre-6.2 Chevy / GMC pickups and maybe Buicks. Not sure what else they ran them in.

Where we live it rarely gets below 20* so fuel gelling is not much of an issue. When the nights get down to freezing, I usually plug in my diesel trucks just because it makes me feel better. Don’t most diesels have a provision for heating the fuel to keep it from gelling?

huh?

Mine has an engine block heater.

I'm not aware of a fuel heater.

Ram diesels have used a fuel heater since 2012, if not earlier in the chassis mounted filter/water trap.

The 7.3 powerstrokes have a heating element under the filter, which is on top of the engine in the valley.

Regular Power Service when it gets cold. A bottle of Red Power Service 911 on stand by for really cold.

Heated fuel filters were a thing on semi trucks for a long time (Davco, usually). Couldn't even spec them on the last two Kenworth's I bought. We spend a good bit more money on Power Service, just in case. Fuel return rates are down, too, so it's all harder to keep from turning into cream cheese.

In all my years working in Alaska and living 60 miles south of Canada I've never put anything but fuel in a diesel....and I have 3 currently.

My company truck is a Chevrolet

Red dye, off road, fuel does not contain high sulfur content. It is the same as highway diesel. However, there is no road tax paid on it. Hence the red dye to identify it. If it had high sulfur you could not use it in any diesel equipment built after 2007. It plugs the dpf in short order. We are talking a few hours.[/quote]


I saw a Ford Explorer with a new diesel engine in 2009 burned up at just over 1000 miles when I was in Afghanistan. It was a low sulfur engine using high sulfur diesel. The heads were off the engine and the pistons were literally melted to the cylinder walls. Needless to say the company I worked for had to start buying vehicles that could use the high sulfur diesel. I understand they went to Toyota's and were getting them from India.

kwg

The block heater warms the coolant in the engine block which would warm the fuel in close proximity to the block, filter, pump, etc. I was thinking some if not all had a heater in or near the filter system to warm the fuel coming from the tank. Doesn’t keep fuel from gelling in the tank which I think, is the purpose of winterized fuel and some fuel additives. Could be mistaken.