Just so my intentions are clear, I just plain don't like Nemesis and his vitrol on every other thread is getting tiring. So consider this post made out of spite.



Poacher?

You decide.




https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Property_line_hunting_etiqu#Post4594441 [/quote]

I dont think that is a poacher. Poacher is taking game out of season or non-game species, isnt it?

he is a trespassor.

No?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Number/4596056/what/showflat/fpart/5/q/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4851147#Post4851147

Always loved someone who figured it was their "right" to use someone else's property for their own gain.

Can't wait till I need a ride. I mean I'm an ethical, qualified and good driver - if he won't let me use his car, I think the "Gone in 60 Seconds" approach is called for.

Lord help him if I find him on my land.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Number/4597999/what/showflat/fpart/9/q/1

I just can't believe someone is stupid enough to admit to this on a public forum..

The justification to post is the fact I own the deed. [bleep] YOU if you think I need to justify anything more than that.

Get off your arse and buy your own if that's what you want or hunt public land.

the definition of poach is ' to tresspass on'

look it up

Entitlement attitude. It is everywhere you look. miles

Wikipedia has a long list of ways to poach. One of them says it's taking game on closed land. Posted land is closed. Basically, poaching is taking game that's in any way illegal. So, if Nemesis is doing what the original post says, he's definitely a poacher.

As far as I am concerned that is poaching. Not having landowner permission is one of my biggest pet peeves in hunting. And for the record, I'm not a land owner.


Travis

Poaching is STEALING game you have no right to. If it is another's land and they don't want hunters on it.........IT IS POACHING, BOTTOM LINE!

I don't know how someone can say that they are responsible, courteous
and ethical and then sneak onto someone else's property that they have been told not to be on.

Ernie

Pull that chitt on my place and you're gonna need more than your [bleep] bow and arrow.

If he is truly doing what he says and not just running his mouth trying to make himself look like a big shot moron, he is a poacher.

No if's, and's or but's about it.

And that disgusts me.

I've put great effort into running trespassers off of the properties that I hunt.
They are lowlife scumsucking theives.
Sooooo frustrating to pass up decent bucks with good potential, only to have some rat bastard sneak on to your property and poach them.
If the state is simply slapping poachers on the wrist for stealing bucks off of your property, then a severe ass kicking is in order.
In many states they finally got a clue as to what big game animals are worth and have adjusted penalties accordingly.
I like the "wildlife violators compact" where a convicted poacher is placed on a list prohibiting him from ever hunting in all of the states in the pact.
There are very few states not in that compact these days.
It's time to hunt the poachers.

Intersate wildlife violators compact

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/tabid/20979/Default.aspx

I came damned close to spitting my coffee out when I read this. TFF!

Thanks,
Travis

Note to self:

Don't mess with Rex. (grin)

Well...Out here in Ca. on much/most of the national forest where I hunt, every other section is "owned" by private companies...Fruit Growers, Sierra Pacific, & others...most of the time, unless you're carrying a BLM map, you'll have absolutely no idea if you're "trespassing" or not. Down on the river, I know EXACTLY where the boundaries are, because I've filed claims in the past in certain sections I've wanted to work...one such claim bordered Sierra Pacific land & I contacted the "head cheese" up in Red Bluff to try & get "written permission" to access my claim so I could cross their land & satisfy one of the requirements required by the BLM minerals manager to get his approval for a "plan of operation"...he wouldn't do it. He verbally said they didn't mind but because of possible litigation problems if something happened, they wouldn't do it. Another problem even with the BLM maps is that the U.S. Forest Service & the BLM are always swapping sections or parcels between them & the lumber companies & you'll actually have to go to the county recorders office to look up the status or ownership if you want to be ABSOLUTELY sure you are not "trespassing"...when hunting though, I could give a chit less who "owns it" unless they actually have it posted "no trespassing"...I'd hazard a guess that many here out west have actually "trespassed" many times without actually knowing it...

lol



Hey now,...I'm just a harmless little puppy.

growing up we had to deal with this, my Grandparents owned 150 acres in North Central CA, with Forest Service land on 3 sides. The property was fenced and posted, and still we had to constantly chase off poachers. Made no sense, since in my time hunting there I saw more deer off the property and over all we killed more deer off the property than on. Of course it was my grandpa's rule that you only hunted on the property if you were going for your first buck or if it was close to the end of the season and you were skunked.

You mean if it's not posted it's ok for you to hunt there?

Very common all over the west to have unfenced, unmarked private property.
Wardens will tell you that it is ALWAYS the responsibility of the hunter to know the status of the land that you are on.

I've got two brothers with that same stinkin' mentality.
They ain't gonna know, they ain't gonna' care, they ain't gonna' this or they ain't gonna' that.

My problem is, the crap flowed down hill. After they'd been ejected enough times rumors started flyin' and my name got caught up in it.
You have no idea how embarrassing and infuriating it is to have a land owner,,,,,,,,,,
Aw pizz on it.
I'ld like to put a pick handle up every trespassers butt.

In CA, are land owners require by law to post their property, every certain amount of feet, if they don't want people on their land?

I believe that the law reads....fenced, posted or under cultivation.

Yep

IMO - I don't care if it's posted or not. Know where you are and where you do and don't have permission to hunt.

I don't put the responsibility on someone else to kick me off where I'm not supposed to be. That's on me to know where I should and shouldn't be.

I don't need a sign to tell me not to chit in the kitchen.

In Az, the law is, property must be posted no hunting/trespassing at all entrances and every 1/4 mile around the perimeter... otherwise is legal to hunt.

No firing a firearm within 1/4 mile of an occupied building without permission, whether posted or not, no discharge of a firearm in city limits.

It's up to the landowner in rural areas to post the land or allow hunting.

Kent

Well... This is pretty damn bold and stupid... If Nemesis thinks that a deer is more valuable than his money and freedom... Well... He's a stupid bastard that needs his ass kicked up between his shoulders... What an idiot...

I read this when it was originally posted. I certainly hope that was the first day that he decide to try inhaling, or something along those lines.

This must be different times.

Where I came from it was your responsibility to know who owned what and get the necessary permission to be there. If not you were - and were considered - a worthless piece of crap.

My two favorite signs:

Is there life after death?
Trespass here and find out.

And

No Trespassing.

Violators will be shot. Survivors will be prosecuted.


Why in the hell would it be someone else's responsibility to tell you that you do not have the right to be somewhere?

Couldn't agree more...

I guess if he finds a house that is unoccupied, he'll just move in that [bleep] as well.

He just hasn't gotten caught on the right man's property yet.

And he'll get caught. Anyone who comes on a public forum and admits to that kind of thing isn't too bright.

JM

If he's truly doing that, sooner or later he'll get his comeuppance. They almost always do. The might get away with it for years, then they get bold and stupid. Some day he'll get caught.

Poaching is: "The illegal shooting, trapping, or taking of game or fish from private or public property."

Hunting or fishing while trespassing is poaching. A game warden/CO will charge you with poaching if you're caught with game or fish. A deputy sheriff may only charge you with trespassing.

My X buddy/neighbor did the very same thing, shooting 7-8 deer every year. The land owner questioned him and the good guy that he is told them that it we ME!

I assisted the DNR and it took 3 years but they busted him!

JD338

That's the rub... the Sheriff will fine you... the game department can also take action independently and revoke your license. Here in Az it's typically 5 years and reciprocated with most other states.

Stay legal for your state, know the laws for each... don't poach.

Kent

To me, it's wrong and shouldn't be done. Of course, I feel the same way about breaking the speed limit.

He is one of a very short list that made it on to my Ignore list, a long time ago.

It's just not worth the blood pressure spikes to listen to a few on here.

So, I can now hunt in Yellowstone for some of those huge elk hanging out in there, as long as I do it during the season?

I'll be sure to send the Feds over to verify it with you when I get busted...

Closed land, out of season, wrong sex, after dark, no license, wrong weapon (rifle vs bow), the list goes on and on as to what poaching can consist of.

robin hood, billy badazz, second cousin to chuck norris.


my family's land was paid for with blood, sweat and tears



some folks think paddin their hours ain't stealing from their company either, in my mind it's the same as reaching into the cash box and just taking money.



yes I did poach in my youth, I shot game on our land whenever we needed meat. have crawled on my belly with a sack full of frogs with shotgun shells going off above

but I eventually outlived my stupidness and grew up a bit.


I hate a damned thief.


I could be wrong and if so I'm sorry but I coulda swore it was the same poster that in event of really hard times he told crossfire, "he'd just take from those that had prepared for hard times" or something to that effect. maybe crossfire will chime in and correct me.

and probably nemesis don't need any more chit brought up about him anyhow, he's diggin a deep enough hole with stuff like trips posted.

am glad to see so many of you condemn such behavior and attitudes

Good for you.

My old duck-hunting partner in Northern Alberta was the kind of guy who would give a friend the shirt off his back. One day a lowlife character we both knew asked to borrow Ray's truck to pick up some hay, as his was broken and he couldn't afford to get it fixed. Ray said, "No problem," and that was that. We took my vehicle duck-hunting that evening. Came home to find the Mounties and fishcops at his house with his truck, which the lowlife had used to 1) trespass on private land, 2) shoot a whitetail doe and fawn out of season (with Ray's rifle, which had been in its case behind the seat), and 3) try to pass himself off as Ray to the fishcops. Fortunately the Mountie who arrested the puke went to the same church as us, and talked the fishcops out of confiscating Ray's truck and rifle.

As for Nemesis, yes, he's a poacher if he practices what he preaches.

Maybe he just made it up to irritate some here!! Don

It was the same poster, I reckon.

Talk about an attitude.

GTC

My guess for MOST of the stuff he's posted.

Gosh,that's the way it was when I grew up. If it wasn't posted you just figured the landowner didn't mind if you hunted.My dad and grandfather never posted theirs either and didn't care who hunted. Of course times have changed and not everyone was an A$$HOLE like now.

Those of his ilk exist at the very low level of the socio-economic scale. Petty thief, small time criminal, unintelligent and, hence, uneducated describe him. Because of his very limited abilities he will never own land to hunt. Indeed let us all hope he does not even have the wherewithal to own a firearm.

He is more to be pitied than scorned. Perhaps someday he will bring his bow to a gunfight...

Rex;

Glad you picked that ball up and ran with it for a while.

Need someone else to be the azzhole 'round here for a bit.

When I worked for the electric company, I met many unusual people.
Most times if you treated people decently and acted with with some respect - they would invite you to come back and they would invite you to come and hunt - especially small game - anytime you wanted to.

There was one man who was very much against people driving on his property - with the sole intent of hunting deer and big game - who did not have his permission to be there.

He finally got so fed up with it all that he started taking those peoples rifles and four wheelers.
Out in his barn, hanging from the rafters was at least 6 four wheelers and that was in 1998.
He had several long rifles in his gun cabinet that he had taken off people who were hunting illegally on his property.
No one ever called the State Police to report him - because the fines would probably add up to several times the value of the possessions that he had seized.

The bottom line is - if the sign says Posted - stay off my land -- then you best better stay off his land.
Since that time, I have met dozens of Bow Hunters who are just as bad as this Robin Hood character. They sneak in - in the middle of the night, they stay there all day and they walk out again when it gets dark.
The cell phone craze only helped to ignite those people - because they can now call for help when they do harvest an animal and they can come and go as they please and they do not have to leave their vehicle parked in a conspicuous place.

With today's camo patterns - you can practically walk right past them and never see them.

A stick n string doesn't go bang either!

Agree 100%. Armed trespass will be met with lethal force.

I just don't understand the idea that if it's not posted - it's okay to be there.

I don't care - default position should be that you aren't supposed to be there unless told otherwise.

i always wondered why more wasn't made of this when the original post was made. he could get shot for that in TX.

+1

There are to many LEGAL areas to hunt. You should not have to trespass. to do your hunting

I agree totally. As a land owner I despise trespassers of any sort, and even if my land wasn't posted (it is), I'd still be pi$$ed if I found someone on it whom I hadn't invited.

I do not know about the other states "out west", but Idaho's trespassing laws are pretty clear and sensible.

If it is cultivated and/or irrigated ground, it is obviously private property and is illegal to hunt upon without permission.

If the property is in its natural state, as is most range land or timber, then it is impossible for a hunter to recognize the difference between private land and public. Fences???? There are fences dividing many portions of public land as the grazing rights are leased to different operators.

Range lands and timber may be posted with signs or simply with splashes of red paint on a rock or with steel posts painted red at regular intervals and at entry points.

It is the responsibility of the land owner to post his property. If so posted it is illegal to hunt upon those lands without permission.

A violation of Idaho's trespass laws will cost one his hunting privileges.

Thirty and forty years ago in Idaho, private lands were over run with slob hunters who ignored postings and took pheasant or deer on private properties. We called the Sheriff and Warden on the worst offenders on our property, but in ten years I only saw one citation issued.

That one citation was to a dumb azz who proclaimed to be on a public road but admitted to shooting a pheasant from beside his vehicle. The road was a dirt two track which bisected our property and was in no way public. But the warden wrote Mr Dumbazz a ticket for shooting from the road and I signed it. The guy must have paid the ticket as I never got a call to testify at a hearing.

But I digress, today, with the trespass laws we have in effect, we can go for several years without seeing a trespasser upon the property.

I once saw two fine bucks about 50 feet on the neighbor's side of the fence. Must admit I was sorely tempted to shoot but didn't.

Almost for certain I would not have been caught and if I had the neighbor probably would not have minded, after all his ranch is 15,000 acres what's one buck to him?

Wonder where the defendant is...expecting him to rise to defense of his (kaff) honor and all that. Hardly recall his name...maybe Ignore? My memory isn't what it used to be. He do make arguing the merits of the .270 vs. .30-06 seem an honorable pastime, all things considered.

Don't have property these days, but awhile back I did. Accosted a few interlopers at gunpoint, never saw hide nor hair again. Few places where they were slippin' in thru heavy cover I spiked a SOG patch to a tree at the property line. Vines took over and I moved on to other projects. Local folks thought I was dangerously unbalanced, or so the rumors went. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.



Florida has it that trespassing with a firearm is a felony. Shooting from or over state right of way, or onto another property likewise. Other states could learn a bit from that, IMO. Do a felony, ferget about guns.

In Texas trespassing to hunt is a felony. No wonder he is hiding and not responding.

Big difference between East (where I grew up) and West (where I am now).

One place I hunt is mostly State Land, interspesed (I think) with smaller parcels of undeveloped private land. It's near pancake flat desert cut with shallow washes between a road and the Central Arizona Project (CAP) canal.

No fences or other way of telling where one stops and the other begins. State law says if it's not posted, go right in.

Around one side of the canal was private land owned by the CAP, unposted, unfenced, and lousy with quail. So we hunted there. We also shot clays there in the off-season. The security guy for the CAP would roll up in his nice truck, get out to see what we were doing. He'd see that we were collecting our trash, so he'd stay a while and talk guns, and about the quail, and compare notes about where we found the quail. He told us the CAP planned to fence and post all this soon, so we should get our fun in now. Just this last year they fenced and posted the best quail habitat, though there's still some State land around there that's accessible. So it goes, it was fun while it lasted.

I think the big difference between East and West is that out here you might have huge areas of public land pockmarked with pieces of undeveloped private land you can't distinguish from the public. Back East you can more easily assume everything is private. Plus the laws about permission and posting could be different as noted.

Bad example John. Seriously. There was a house across from my Mom and Dad's place probably fifteen years back. It was getting run down and the guy that owned it was shacked up with this old gal over to the county seat. He ran cattle there all the time though. So one day, these assclowns that had been kicked out of some other house, roll in there with their camper. They park it and just set up housekeeping, using the house's bathroom, even though it wasn't hooked up to water. I don't know Kansas law on it, but I've heard that it is VERY difficult to evict anybody, and that includes squatters. They lived there for awhile with the old boy trying to get some work out of them but being pretty unsuccessful. I think he finally brought his dozer over and knocked the house down while they were parked there.

Anyway, there it is...

I've yet to see a hornets nest thrown thru a wondow that did not move folks asses around.

Having lived in Arizona for a while I understand the difference in east and west with trespass not being an element unless the land is marked under those conditions. However, when you ask permission and are told "NO" then it is always wrong morally, if not legally. I doubt our man of dubious character would ask while out west under those conditions anyway.

Nemesis Lead sentence was, "Most of the towns around me have passed ordinances that prohibit hunting on private land without the owner's written permission."

I would have to say if someone hunts land he KNOWS is posted or he KNOWS he would not be welcome is not someone with whom I would associate. That person is breaking the law in most states and deserves to be caught and fined. He is just making to hard on those of us who hold our sport in high esteem.

As to if he really does hunt this way (and I am not saying this kind of action is really hunting) or if he is just stirring the pot I have no clue. My hope is he is just stirring the pot.

Get ya shot down here.

They say that ethics are proven by doing the right thing when no one is around to see it. More people should adhere to that standard. If they did, the world would be a much better place.

Dan:

I knew of a guy in the Daytona Beach area several decades ago (he's dead, now) who had some rural property.

His method of dealing with poachers was to get real close and start screaming like a madman, shooting off bursts of automatic fire from a legally owned Thompson gun.

He only seldom had poachers. (And the neighbors found his antics worked to their benefit.)

- Tom

Out west, in California where I grew up it used to be that hunting on timber company land wasn't that big a deal. In most cases, but not always, they didn't post it or forbid hunting, fishing, backpacking or "trespassing". They didn't care - it was just vast tracts of forest.

It's a different story now with all the law suits - etc. That and the idiots that might start a forest fire. They have to protect their investments. I wouldn't trespass on timber company land anymore or for that matter any other private land. It gets you in trouble with the law nowadays.

WOW! While I didn't read all 7 pages of posts regarding this topic, all I can say to the person(s) that think it's ok to hunt other peoples land with out permission is: HUNT PUBLIC LAND, OR BUY YOUR OWN FREAKING PIECE OF PROPERTY! It takes some set of cajones to poach/tresspass (i'm not getting caught up on terminology) on land that someone else has purchased AND continually pays taxes on. In my mind, it's no different than breaking into someones home. -TomT

In several states the land doesn't have to be posted. If you don't own it, or have permission to be on it, you're tresspassing, plain and simple.

Most do and there lies the rub...

The difference in cultures from one State to the next is interesting. What is fine in Az is a huge no/no in Colorado and you 'must' follow local laws, tradition or you are unethical.

Az grew from mining/ranching/farming/logging... until about 1970 when the population exploded. When I was a kid in the 60s, there were about 500,000 people in the Phx area cities and around 1 million in Az total. Now there are over 4 mil in Phx area and around 6 mil in the state.

Anyway, the laws here were made by those legislators from the past that also were the property owners, farmers, ranchers, miners ect. Along with laws about water that are still in force... they understood about multiple use issue and the hunting culture here. They made the laws that property owners (themselves included) were responsible for posting, or hunting would be allowed.

Much of this culture is because of dove hunting, Big game not as much, antelope the major in that. Farmers and dairys were being attacked by swarms of birds and killing the grain eating pests is important, huge amounts of money being lost. If a farmer didn't want hunters on a piece of property, he posted that piece. They also didn't want hundreds of hunters knocking on their door asking for permission. Posted meant stay out... unposted meant come kill your limit. Game and fish would check licenses and sheriffs would make sure try and keep people from shooting too close to buildings.

Kent

Chances are, there are MANY here.

I've hunted a cousins piece of property for years and have had on opening morning unwelcome hunters tear down No Hunting signs, shoot into Elk Herds over our heads in his fields, and take downed animals away from Handicapped Hunters. We have also had them shoot towards his home and have circled his fields with a herd in his fields trying to get a shot at single questionable three point bull in the herd and the game wardon was standing in his kitchen drinking coffee watching the whole thing go down.

So, yeah right, I have a lot of respect for individuals like Nemises. NOT!!!!!!!

I had missed all the threads quoted, but have to admit to a level of astonishment, having been on the receiving end of a few "right and wrong" verbal attacks by the gentleman in question. His opinions on private property mirror those of the liberal kids up at the local university.

I have to wonder if he would be as tolerant of said views on private property if others were to adopt the same views towards his private property?

Pennsylvania's laws are a joke...

You are supposed to have the landowner's permission to hunt on their property, but nothing is done that I know of unless the land is posted.

MAIN STORY:
Last year some hunters were hunting on private property without permission that I believe was also posted; I also believe they were repeat offenders on the property. Supposedly the police and game commission had done nothing much to previously deter. The landowner then met these people with a firearm, noted as an "assault rifle" in news reports (absurd liberal report), and a gunfight resulted. A trespasser and the landowner received gunshot wounds; the trespasser survived and the landowner died. NO CHARGES FILED that I have heard of; none not trespassing charges or anything.
Again, Pennsylvania's laws are a joke... Rendell vetoed a good self defense bill a little while ago; the new governor probably will not veto it.

I also remember that a farmer back in the seventies that got tired of Pheasant Hunters shooting up his irrigation and other farming equipment and posted his land north of Pasco,WA only to find a kid out of Pasco on his property shooting at his equipment so he shot and killed the kid and he got into big trouble for it. on't remember the outcome of that one.

Kent,

I've been amazed by the property and water rights laws here in Colorado. It's very different from anywhere else I've lived. I came to the conclusion that everything here (laws) were based on mining way back when. It's a lot more restrictive than even California.

Let that retard come here on my land I worked for my whole life to make payments, pay taxes on it, put in irrigation systems at an enormous expense, come through the fences I built, then shoot the game I provide habitat for, and I'll bust a cap up his ignorant azz.

He's about the biggest ignoramus on this forum.

I'm glad he showed us all his true colors.

I've never been fond of anything Nemesis posts, as I always thought the guy was a total jack ass.

That post by him confirms my belief 100%. I can't believe someone would be stupid enough to post that kind of garbage on a public forum. Wow.

Nice catch!

You mean you spent all the sweat and money for yourself and not for others to just come and steal?

Then he is even stupider than we thought.

[bleep] pathetic that towns even have to do that.

Anyone that knowingly trespasses/poaches on someone's private land should be shot. I have zero tolerance for such a$$holes.

There may be some justification out West, but in the East, everyone knows damn well who's land is what.

lol

Hell, sometimes I post crap just to irritate some folks I take great pleasure in irritating but Good Lord,...


On the original thread, I kept waiting for 'ol Nemesis to backpedal but he seemed pretty firm in his belief that as long as he asked real nice and sweet, he was totally justified hunting on another man's land whether given permission or not.

Taking game Illegal is Poaching regardless of how you justified it. He is not only poaching but Trespassing also and if caught he can be charged with both. Land Owners have the right to refuse hunting or anything else on the property they worked and payed for. He pays the taxes and land belongs to him. Case Closed .

It's hard not to poach sometimes. I caught a fox squirrel in a yote trap yesterday.

Oh I can. I used to be real active on a forum that grew from moderately sized to huge. The bigger it got the more brazen the poachers got, despite the fact more than a few have gotten busted by wardens using what they posted as evidence to get an investigation started. It go so bad and I got so disallusioned when faced with the reality of the ethics of apparently way too large a percentage of hunters, it was one of the reasons I just started my own site with very few rules (7 to be exact) but this was #7 If you brag about or post photographic evidence of illegally taking fish or game, you will be immediately banned.
I have ZERO tolearance for poachers (and yes tresspassing to hunt IS poaching) and will do everything in my power to make sure they get their due.
The real irony in that post (and the same is true with most poachers) is that in THE SAME BREATH he complains about not being granted access .... as he admits to tresspassing. Why do most landowners not grant access? Because they ran across some disrespetful 'hunter' before that didn't obey their requests. Poachers are the NUMBER REAON we don't have more private land access around here and I suspect in most places.

A week before the dove season I post the property with signs that say:

DOVE HUNTERS WELCOME
PLEASE USE CAUTION AROUND AND NEAR IRRIGATION EQUIPMENT.

I have several incidents where people have shot up my feeder lines in spots that shut me down for days, until I was able to get all the holes repaired. Lunch trash and cans are left on my ditch banks, and mountains of empty shells get clogged in my cultivator tines.

I am always working in the fields when the sun rises on 09/01 and sometimes I am bucking bales onto a trailer to get them off the fields so I can irrigate. Dozens of hunters descend and have a good shoot.

The only one of these hunters, mostly regulars, to give me a six pack or offer to help buck bales is a Muslim Arab who owns a fur store in Reno and is well to do. He always asks permission, even with the signs posted, and he always stops at the house to thank me...offers part of his bag, too.

Nemesis is the kind of guy who becomes the "last straw" and results in land being posted.

Try owning some land that you got in a land swap thru a 3 way with the US Forest Service and a timber company so that the National Forest could consildate it's landholdings into larger chunks.

If I had a $1 for every person that thought they were entitled to hunt there because their grandfather hunted there and their dad I could buy the entire national forest.

big difference ethically out west if yah get turned around and wind up hunting private ground that is in its natural state and hunting posted ground that you were told no on hunting it.......that said i have had bullets go over my head cause i got turned around and wound up on the wrong side of a fence line.....trespass on the wrong ground even on accident can get yah shot.....granted most here will drive up and ask yah what the hell your doing on their land instead of shooting first but as i found out on accident some do shoot first....problem is lots of public ground is fenced and sectioned off and there is private ground that aint fenced so it can get confusing out in the hills....

course the poster being discussed was hunting land he knew he wasnt supposed to so that takes all the accidental chit out of it....

Game critters unless in a high fence situation like Hindsite's place are public property. Poaching on private property is not "stealing" from the land owner as he does not own or control the game animals, only the land they are on.
It's trespassing, isn't right or legal, nor do I condone or do it, but it is not theft of personal or private property as the "game" is property of the state which includes all of the people.

poach 2 (pch)
v. poached, poach�ing, poach�es
v.intr.
1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game.
2. To take fish or game in a forbidden area.
3. To become muddy or broken up from being trampled. Used of land.

[/quote]

Nemesis is one of the very few people I have on ignore whom I don't even toggle occassionally. A vile person as far as I can tell, and finding out this "Robin Hood" (snork) is a self-admitted trespasser and poacher is pretty fun <g>.

I'm a landowner. I don't hunt my land for several reasons, but I certainly reserve the right to! And in that case, say to get my kid her first deer, or because I'm laid up or otherwise can't hunt "normally" for some reason.... I'd sure like it if some loser hadn't been poaching the deer off my deer reserve for the last 20 years!

Why is it that the most virulently holier-than-thou's ALWAYS turn out to be such self-serving cheaters? My aunt comes to mind...

We own and manage timberland. Nothing is more frustrating than having people tear down gates, shoot up signs, and then tell you to f--- off on your own property. These may be hunters, whether they are after game, mushrooms, old gold mines, firewood, incense cedar boughs, or just a good place to tear up ground with their ATVs. They all seem to have the same attitude - all forest is open to the public. In Oregon, you can "post" your property by painting the top 6" of your fence posts red. Unfortunately, most people don't know and don't care about that.

I didn't say it wasn't "poaching" as it most assuredly is. Poachers should be dealt with severely too. That said, "wild critters are not private property" was my point.

nemisis is a poacher! There is no other term for it. The landowner doesn't have to give permission or justify his reasons to anyone. Go in after being denied permission and all you are going to do is make an enemy of the landowner. And some of them still "think" they can shoot at trespassers to incourage them to leave.

Yep, I've fished and hunted in Colorado since I was little... very different laws and my Dad made sure we followed them. It's your responsibility to know where the private land ends and the public begins.

Just my observation from inside Az looking out. We are 80% public land, being as our state was one of the last to be 'civilized' lol... because it took technology to tame the elements here, bring water, ect. During that time the public land conservation movement also blossomed, so there wasn't much private land out from the settled areas, not hard to find a spot on Public land to big game hunt here. Other states are much more privately owned, competition for hunting land can cause issues.

Kent

I agree 100% that they are the public's. Still, providing habitat on private property benefits all hunters. One of the biggest mule deer I ever shot had wandered off private land onto public land.

No one has any business on your property without permission.
I understand completely, as I used to own acreage and had my share of uninvited guests.
Worst was guys unloading their bird dogs about 100 feet from the house then having a fit when I told them this was private property. The guy was making threating remarks and actually reached for his shotgun and his friend grabbed him. Not sure what would have happened if he had picked it up, as I was armed but he never knew it. Always been thankful that was the end of it.

The guy is a real POS!

Idaho has come up with an easy solution for that. There's a lot of private range land here that's exactly like the adjoining BLM or FS land. You can't tell the difference. If the private land isn't irrigated or cultivated, it must be posted or it's open for hunting. The regs list very specific ways to post it, most of which don't take any serious effort on the part of the landowner. Fences don't count because a lot of the public land is also fences for grazing. An orange placard or a solid orange fence post every 200 yds is all it takes.

Another problem not mentioned so far is guys posting land that is public. Posting in Idaho does not require a sign, just painting red or orange markers of 100 square inches or a complete fence post is considered "posted". Any one can buy a can of red paint and illegally post where they want to keep other out. I have not hunted places in the past that I now know is public land. I keep BLM or FS maps of areas I plan to hunt now because of game missed in the past from false postings.

[/quote]

Yep, POS for sure. Found one of these on my property last weekend. Last day of deer flintlock season, hunting with a centerfire rifle. POS claims to be hunting coyotes. Told him to leave and he starts getting mouthy. You cant stop me, I will hunt where I want, blah,blah,blah. Went so far as to call me a f'n ahole. Should have called the State Police, but figured he'd be gone by the time they got here. PA trespass laws are a joke. Good thing for him I don't like the idea of spending time behind bars.

I WILL NEVER HUNT ON POSTED PROPERTY OR PROPERTY I HAVE ASKED AND BEEN DENIED PERMISSION TO HUNT.

The above is in caps so that my position is 100% clear. I called out Nem on the original thread as well, so I am repeating myself, I think, but wanted to make sure where I stand before I share this: In Massachusetts, if land is not posted, private or public, it may be LEGALLY hunted by duly licensed hunters, as long as all other rules/laws are obeyed (discharge laws pertaining to homes, roads, etc.).

Either way, posted or not, if you ask permission of a landowner and are denied, that's that. I sure don't understand Nem's Robin Hood BS, and the farmers and landowners I do have permission from to hunt would be informed immediately if I see anyone else on their land without permission. The way they handle it is up to them, but I am certain that Nem wouldn't care for the welcome offerred. Not one bit.

It's always a shame to see a piece of land posted especially after you have been able to hunt it for years. But in the end one must respect the wishes of the Landowner. It's most likely types like Nemesis that have caused the land to be posted in the first place.


Harry M.

Nemesis sounds like he wants a bullet up his a$$, and just may get one "in the end"...........grin

Yes. Seem like the kind of person that could just mysteriously disappear some day.

Gotta' agree, Harry. What part of MA are you out of, pray tell? I work downtown, but hang my hat on the NS (ABY).

As much as I dislike the sentiment that poaching someone elses land is somehow OK, with a bunch of silly justifications about why, to suggest that shooting them is a solition or understandable, in any situation other then self-defense, is just plain wrong.

When someone shows up on your property armed, how do you know his intentions? If you do not assume they are up to no good, you are asking to be harmed yourself. This IS a case of self defense, as questioning an armed lawbreaker is a hazardous occupation, just ask any LEO.

That's a good point, Mike.
My folks own property right near BLM land in Southern Idaho, in a prime mule deer hunting area.
My mom has had bullets whizzing over her head(while sitting on the back porch) during hunting season, and these fired from scum(I won't say hunters!!) shooting ACROSS a public highway!

No excuse for that, none at all.

Everytime this post comes back to the top I somehow think the subject line reads:

Is there a PREACHER amongst us....

It means to hunt or fish illegally. I guess when you are unlawfully trespassing, you could also get nailed for poaching. I hope he gets caught and has the book thrown at him. There are guys around here who shoot game and only take the heads. I have a strong distaste for this type of action. Makes you also wonder if there are guys here who do it. I don't give a chit about the rack as you can't eat them.

Speaks volume of someones character. Talk about an entitlement mentality.

There are a lot of poacher wannabes around here. All the Wolf SSS crew by definition.

What about the cow SSS crew?


ddj

Poaching NORMALLY associates with game animals, fwiw.

Non-game animals, be they protected, livestock, or vermin, are generally not "poached".

Semantics? Sure.

Still, there's the point.

Thanks, but I was trying to show the correlation.


ddj

shoot someones cow here and you'll get 10yr for cattle rustling

Yep, POS for sure. Found one of these on my property last weekend. Last day of deer flintlock season, hunting with a centerfire rifle. POS claims to be hunting coyotes. Told him to leave and he starts getting mouthy. You cant stop me, I will hunt where I want, blah,blah,blah. Went so far as to call me a f'n ahole. Should have called the State Police, but figured he'd be gone by the time they got here. PA trespass laws are a joke. Good thing for him I don't like the idea of spending time behind bars. [/quote]

No need for a confrontation. When it's apprpriate there's always valve stems and cutters.

Nothing gives you the right to tresspass on somebody's land for hunting. I used to chase people off my grandfather's land constantly, and it is one of my pet peeves. Gotta say, it takes him down a few notches in my book. Pretty disappointed in him.

Hello Ihonda, I live in the booming town of Tewksbury! 30 miles north of Boston. Been here 56 years. My late Dad was a part time Lobster Fishermen out of Pigeon Cove in Rockport for 16 years so I did my share of pullen' traps and bluefish fishing when they were in. He loved the ocean. My Brother loves the Striper fishing but myself I'm mainly fresh water now. Local I head out to the Squanacook in Townsend. Loved Quabbin until they put that new trailer launch BS in. But mostly I fish for bass up near my in-laws at Highland Lake in Stoddard NH. For deer my brother and I can be found in Pittsburg NH come November.

Harry M.

I used to poach eggs.

Watch out, someone may shoot ya.

Tell you what, you let me catch that essobee on my property and he'll be sorry he ever saw the place. The last poacher I caught on my property I threw the book at him and it cost him his truck, his rifle, and another fifteen hundred bucks. And he was the second one that we've caught that cost him his truck and his gun, plus a hefty fine.

And I've held at least four other ones at gun point until the Sheriff got there to haul their sorry ass off of my property, and I pressed charges on the worthless bastards.

If he's trespassing after he's been denied permission to hunt, then he's the worst kind of fuggin' poacher. I personally believe that poaching ought to be a capital offense.

Robin Hood, my ass.

That's not poaching - just killing. Rustling perhaps, but not poaching. Damn, I had a bead on a couple great Angus this weekend but...

Nah. Rustlin' is poachin'.
Same/same.

poaching: Definition from Answers.com
Note that only wild animals can be poached. Stealing or killing domestic animals is considered to be theft ("cattle rustling"), not poaching.

We always ask permission EVERY year. The one fella says why do you ask, known your family for years and you know you're allowed.

Well things may change from year to year. Always thank them and give them some deer meat or one of wifeys homemade pies.

Poaching or tresspassing without permission is WRONG!!!

What a winner!He trespasses so that he can shoot something he does not want,and gives it away.Lord help him if I catch him on my property.What a winner! Lightman

Absolutely!!!

My wife and I always check with with her uncle about deer hunting his farm every year even though we know it's not a problem, my mother in law actually owns some of the ground he farms as it's a family farm. From what I understand old school farmers would shoot at trespassers.

Sometimes???

This guy's a piece of crap. Noticed he hasne't shown up to defend himself at all.

No, maybe he's packing his chit up and leaving.

Let me preface by stating that I abhor poaching and trespassing!

That being said I have to question the intent of the OP. If I was truly concerned about this situation I would pass what I know on to the authorities in the culprit�s locale. Not start some junior high level dog pile thread. If you don�t like the member fine put him on ignore and don�t take him off. Don�t be a peeker, just let it go. Stop the junior high bullschitt!

I get a kick out of all of you who make direct or veiled threats about what you would do to someone who you caught trespassing�.all I can say is bullschitt as most of you wouldn�t do anything in person other than call the local LEO.

By the way I have had run ins on here with the person in question too. But I didn't start a juvenile thread like this.

In California, logging companies on Federal Forest Land are forced to allow egress for any legal use of the land. So basically, if it's being logged, but no one is physically logging it at the time, you can hunt there. Logging areas are some of the best in the D-zones for hunting. The days just after a cut are some of the best times. As long as you aren't hunting while loggers are there it's ok.

Told him what I thought of him the other day. Guess I was right.

Wisconsin is one of them and trespassing without permission is going to cost you $2,000.00.

He last visited today at 11:33 A.M. He should have noticed this thread.

Well Keith, so far I have not shot any trespassers but have held three different ones at gunpoint waiting on the the Deputy of GFC to show up. If any had gotten violent we would have been waiting on the coroner & CSI!


And that my friend is the truth.

Good For You

We need to be able to protect our families and our property

I have property and have had peaple trespass on it But have never cought them (YET) Pisses me off and mine is posted

2K? 2K?
I don't think so. More like $2-400. 2K is felony territory

Terry...I said most of you. You know damn well you don't fit that category nor do many others. I still say the OP was making a juvenile attempt to drag someone through the mud. Better ways of handling this.

might not want to hunt some places in the west......main reason for trespassing is theft and sheriffs deputies are often few and far between.......most chase you off after giving yah a warning, a few hold yah at gun point for the sheriff, a few shoot first and dont care bout asking questions latter.....just the way it is and always has been......there are a few places along the river bottom here i dont go near when hiking so i dont wind up on the wrong side of a fence on accident.....

We can agree on that Keith, I just felt the need to inject the reality note. I could probably get away with just popping them but it ain't my way. Not without a real threat to me or another. Deadly force is "The Final Option" not to be taken lightly.

There have been a couple here, one was dicey as hell for almost three years and cost the land owner a bit on the far side of $100,000 to clear his name.

The other was an older lady and the DA said: Justified we are not going to file.

Trespassing with a firearm in some states is a felony.

Including Florida, comes under the "Ten, Twenty, Life" law.

Carry a gun while committing a crime, MANDATORY 10 years.

Show the firearm while committing a crime, MANDATORY 25 years.

Pull the trigger while committing a crime, MANDATORY LIFE with possibility of parole if no one injured or killed.

So following that line of logic, you're suggesting just what, exactly? You shoot the guy on sight? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Serious question, and no, I'm not looking to pick a fight or sling shyte for slinging shyte's sake. But then, that could change. Let's see where this goes. I'll get started on a stiff drink and putting the slippers on.

HMMMMmmmmmmm,

12-29 10

12-29 10

Originally Posted By: crossfireoops
"I also own a piece of property in northern Arizona"

.....with no water,

...you spent a fortune on Arms and Ammunition though, didn't you ?

That's ONE approach to "Survival", I guess, albeit one that scares the CRAP out of those WITH water on their land.

GTC


I am planning on steeling your water why would I need a well

Kinda' sounds like Nemesis right there,.....how very strange.

Once when I lived on a cattle ranch here I caught a ballsy trespasser that had parked his truck on the property.
I grabbed the keys out of the ignition, then tracked him down by the trail he left in the dry grass.
I met him face to face, grabbed the rifle out of his hands and marched him back to the ranch house.
One of the dumbest things I've ever done in my life.
How the hell did I know his mental situation?
He could have blown a hole in me right then & there.
I was throwing big iron back then and was in the best shape of my life and that day could have been the end of me due to my overconfidence.
The sheriff was rather pissed that I had him drive all the way up here for a stupid trespassing call.
He gave the guy his keys back and sent him on his way.
A warden wasn't available and would have handled things differently.
Another time right at daybreak I glassed a guy with a rifle crossing the barbed wire fence out by the main road.
I set down my coffee, ran out of the kitchen to the horse pasture and jumped on my wife's old mare.
I throttled her across the cow pasture and came charging directly at the would be poacher with no shirt on & no shoes.
Skidding to a halt like some crazed barrel racer he thought I was some sort of lunatic and apologized multiple times calling me sir and promising never to do it again.
He easily could have dropped me in my tracks & left me for dead along with the horse I rode in on.
Silly me.

to seriously answer your question we have a few individuals in the area that dont believe any government should butt into their life on their land....they believe more or less that they are the kings of their land......most wont shoot on the first trespass but if they see you or your vehicle a second time on their land they might.....catch the [bleep] on a bad day like i did and they might fire warning shots before talking with yah, least i assume they were warning shots.....

vast majority wont but if they shoot yah on their land and you have a gun in your hand then there may be trouble trying prove anything other than self defense.....we can argue whether its right or wrong but it doesnt get past the fact some dont give a chit and will.....

Dan, if you're one of those guys, you are Dangerously unbalanced.

Alan

Back in the day when I was working for my uncle in South Texas we'd find a car or truck parked on the road next to his fence from time to time. He'd let me out and I'd pop the hood and grab the coil wire. He'd hand me a note telling them where they could pick it up and I'd stick it on the distributor cap. Never had anyone come to pick up their coil wire.

Poaching is an avocation in Duval County. But If Nemesis wants some really good hunting I know a little ranch over around Kingsville that has some good deer. They absolutely will not give you permission to hunt and that makes them ripe for the picking! Right?! Just head for Raymondville on 77 passed the Hwy 141 cutoff and hop of on the left hand side of the road, jump the fence and you will be in a trespasser/poacher's paradise!

Alan

Are you grinnin cause you're missing a coil wire or because you know what's going to happen to Nemesis?

Alan

he might just drop off the face of the earth hunting there uninvited.

know of a guy here in corpus that decided to hunt the 280000 acre area lease by wynn oil exploration south of town uninvited and barely made it out with a broken leg. he hid in a brush pile but not good enough as they ran it over a few times with a jeep.

Oh they'd run him a little first, but chances are he'd never be found. IF somebody went looking for him.

Alan

Small world. I'm up 93 N to exit 44A and up 495 about 20 minutes north. I sometimes pull off off 93 N at exit what, 42 or so, to get fuel at that Mobil (I think it's a Mobil, near the park and ride just a bit west off the highway at Dascomb road). I've been going to Pittsburg for 25+ years now. Fish the CT lakes, CT river, and lots of other wonderful places up there for wild brookies, as well as hunt for timberdoodles and partridge. Indian Head stream is a pretty good starting point for birds. I killed my bull moose a bit south, in D2, in the northern White Mountains block south of Twin in 2006. Anyway, maybe we'll hook up some day. Glad to see another Masshole here.

L

Thats some funny stuff right there. He got almost what he deserved.

"I am planning on steeling your water why would I need a well...."

A fella here asked me one day if I wanted to go shoot a nilgai. I said, "Hell yeah"! Then he told me where and how. He wanted to go in my boat into Baffin bay, pull up to shore and walk in from there, shoot the nilgai and drag it back to the boat. After I picked up my jaw off the floor and stopped making the sign of the cross to ward off evil, I asked him if he was serious. He said, "yes" that some guy at work had done it. I told him he was crazy but I wasn't. First off those folks will kill you, second a nilgai is as big as a cow, and thirdly those folks will kill you. I don't know if he ever gave that a try. Don't want to know. He's still alive and walking on his own so I reckon not.

Alan

when i was in high school i got invited to hunt on Jack Storms ranch down in Premont. Jack Jr had a place cut in the king ranch fence line, he would drive his jeep through. he wanted to know if i wanted to get one of them Santa Gertrudis steers. I was young 15 but not dumb.The way he made it sound he hunted there more than their own ranch which had bucks most only dream about.

As long as you slathered a homemade Hollandaise sauce on them, set 'em on a slab of Canuck bacon atop a toasted, buttered muffin', well, I think you oughta' get a pass. Just watch yourself though.

L

P.S. 9.7!

Having grown up on a farm. douche bags like nemesis seriously pi$$ me off. When I was a teenager, I was heading up to one of the hay fields, to sit in a tree with my longbow for the last few hours of the day. As I'm pulling through the gate, I see movement at the back of the field, and I'll be damned if it isn't some idiot in full camo hustling his a$$ out of my stand! Now I'm really PO's, and start heading that way. He sees me coming and lays down to hide. We weren't able to get a third cutting due to weather late that summer, so the hay is damn near knee high. I point the truck at the last place I saw him, and figured if he's dumb enough to stay there, I'm going to run his a$$ over. I get within 30 yards or so, and he jumps up waving his arms like a nut! It turns out, he's one of the neighbors we don't care for, and have caught him several times before. I tell him to get the f out, which he didn't really appreciate coming from a kid, but he left. I still laugh like hell, seeing that nitwit jump up in front of me waving! Kinda glad he didn't stay put, as he'd of gotten run over, and not sure if that would have been such a smart thing to do, on my part.

Jeff

It was just a matter of time before his mouth ran him outta here. Nemesis never contributed much to the fire.

Outlaw country...no-man's land in between the Sabine and Angelina Rivers is east Texas is where I come from, and still live. NathanL knows what I say. Even then, poaching came to a standstill when it changed from a Class C Misdemeanor to a felony, a few years back. Consequences work.

true, there use to be a prominent lawyer from Kingsville that use to get caught poaching the Kingranch almost every year. all he had to do was walk out his front door cross the street and jump a fence. My dad asked him why he kept doing it and he said it was cheaper to pay the $250 fine(back in the 70s) than to pay for a lease.

This guy ought to be careful lest some serious assed land owner goes Braveheart on his poaching punkass! Cut and quartered and staked to a pole at the four corners of the land in question...William Wallace style!

I worked for Walsh Storm and his son Phillip in the 80s on their place over in Realitos. NO poaching there. Everybody hunted on the "Long Ranch".

Alan

Oh Yeah, and whatever Nemesis is doing when he crosses a fence, enters private property uninvited, hunts, and kills something is;

POACHING

Alan

If I'm out on my property, which is well and visibly posted, and I see an individual or group of individuals on my property with weapons, I have to make some basic assumptions. One is that they are already breaking the law by being where it is clearly evident that they should not be. The second is that they are armed, and I don't have a clue to what their intent is. I'm going to approach these individuals with the assumption that they are up to no good, and willing to escalate. I will have my weapon out and at low ready when I challenge them, and if I perceive a threat from them I will eliminate that threat.

Obviously if they're not armed it would change how I approach things, but that wasn't the topic. We are speaking about armed trespass with the intent to poach or steal. I would have to make a determination as to level of force, and that would depend upon how the trespasser was armed and distances involved. Bow v. handgun at 50 yards, or bow v. rifle at any distance would result in a much less aggressive response than rifle v. rifle, or multiple trespassers. Either way, if you're confronting anyone with a weapon who has shown a willingness to break the law, you have to assume the worst. It would be foolish to do otherwise.

Absolutely, no where in my comment did I see an inference to shooting a person.

How clear do I have to make it for you?


I think 'ol Nem is a giant prick who tries to throw his weight around and I got tired of it and decided to call him on it.

You want to defend an avowed poacher, be my guest.

2K? 2K?
I don't think so. More like $2-400. 2K is felony territory [/quote

Really ,tell that to the guy I caught last year.Him and his kid paid 2 g`s a piece.

Good point. You got me on that one.

A better choice of words would have been:

After I wrote what looked like a personal attack, which it was not meant to be, I wished I would have worded it differently, or not said anything at all.
Apologies to you Scott.

There's a man with great integrity to apoligize for something like that. Kudos 700.

OK; appreciate and respect the response. Thanks.

I run cattle on this place and hunt there on occasion - with permission, and I ask each time I go hunting.



Confrontations with trespassers can get touchy. I think it is usually the people who do not own any property, or at best own a postage stamp sized yard in the city and would absolutely go ballistic if your chihuahua took a dump over their line.

I can think of three confrontations I was involved in that got out of hand. Truthfully, one still bothers me a great deal to this day, even though it happened around 30 years ago. I politely told a trespassing father and his probably pre-teen son that they were trespassing and would have to leave. Pops reacted loudly and violently and tried to point his rifle at me. I sincerely hope that he feels a great deal of shame - to this day, and every day - for what his son had to witness.

I'm certainly no badass and never look for trouble, but the concept of returning to or hunting on land where you have been turned away is pure BS. One of the three instances mentioned above was exactly that situation - my late 105lbs mom told some guys that drove up in the lane to hunt that they were not welcome. Their solution was to drive away about 100 yards and start gearing up. Cocky enough to think that no 105 lbs woman was going to boss them around. They should have been smart enough to pay attention to all of the vehicles parked around the house.

Is anyone surprised that it is hard to get permission to hunt someone else's property with this kind of crap going on?
Is anyone really surprised that the harsh signs like I mentioned earlier exist?
I, for one, would never consider testing the owners to see if they were serious.

My home place is marked with simple homemade plywood "No Trespassing" signs placed in obvious places. We own another farm in a place where purple paint on a tree is adequate marking, and another in an area where the local paper publishes a list of "posted" properties. It is your responsibility to check the local paper, no additional markings beyond the public notice is required to identify the land as posted.

Our family is a good example of why a lot of ground is not open to public access (ignoring the damage done by trespassers). Mom and dad had six kids. I can remember as a little kid that dad freely granted access. Then us boys started hunting so he restricted the non-family access to his close friends only. Now us 6 kids are parents and grandparents and we have the hunters of those two generations of kids that are hunting our little spot. Really ain't no room for anyone else outside of the family.

Hi Fella's........

I just got home and happened to see this schit storm that got started and thought I'd better get my two cents in here before someone shows up at my door with a hangman's noose.

First of all I'd like to state for the record that trespassing on posted land is WRONG and should not be tolerated under any circumstances!

And yes I also agree that technically if one trespasses on someone's land for the purpose of taking game this can be viewed as a form of poaching.

However........and it's a big however......I do believe that this issue is not as black and white as some would like it to be and............ because this is a hunting Forum, it's exactly the place where topics like this should be discussed and if need be, strongly debated.

Since much of the fury here seems to be centered around what a landowner's rights are, let's get right to it!

Of course every landowner has the right to prohibit others from using his land.

But is it "right" in all cases for him to do so?

For example, if someone owns a hundred acres of vacant and unused property and he is approached by a responsible person who politely asks to hunt there and is willing to provide him with their name, address and other landowner references................. he has the right to approve or deny the request of course, but is he "right" to do so?

If a landowner gets a crop damage permit from the state to kill deer that are damaging his crops, he has the right to kill as many as he wants, but is he "right" in denying hunters permission to do the same?

If a landowner get a special tax exemption from the state to set aside a portion of his land for conservation purposes, it's his right to prohibit hunting on this property, but is he "right" in barring hunters that may be subsidizing his tax credit from using the land?

If hunters work their butts off (and pay through licensing fees) to re-introduce various game species into the wild (i.e. turkeys, ducks, grouse, elk etc.), the landowner has the right to prohibit hunters from taking these animals on his land, but is he "right" in doing so?

I could go on and on, but I hope you can see my point about the difference between the right to do something and doing the "right" thing.

It's apparent that I did a lousy job getting this point across in my now famous "Robin Hood" post and you guy's certainly kicked my azz for it.

Holy schit!

But my intent was simply to express the outright frustration felt by many hunters when they try to act responsibly and they are routinely denied access to land without ever receiving even the slightest explanation for why this action was taken.

The landowner has the right to do this of course...............but is he "right" in doing it?

You guys can be the judge of that!

I'm sure you'll promptly inform me of your decision...

He is not required to be "right".
Any whim is reason enough.
Not liking you should be more than enough reason.

+1

Wow. You really are just that stupid.

Ever been shot at Nemesis?

Buddy, the short answer to your several questions is that yes, the landowner is right in everyone of your cases, if that is his desire. We have no say in the matter(s).

I do not understand your logic.

Were you raised in a big city? Help me out here. You justify your stance.

I put the bastid on ignore last time this came up. It is not worth arguing with someone who is that stupid. They just drag you down to that level and beat you with experiance.

Since it is my right - it is right. I'm not interested in what others think.

Think of it like a country club. You do not get to piss in the pool unless you get invited and sponsored to join, you have to pay your annual dues, and you have to spend the requisite amount in the restaurant/lounge each month.

Doesn't matter if you pay taxes to keep the road paved up to the main gate.

See, that's where the disconnect is. It has not a [bleep] [bleep] thing to do with ethics, morals, right, wrong or indifferent. It's ANOTHER MAN'S LAND, BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. WHO THE [bleep] IS ANYONE ELSE TO QUESTION THAT?

Sir, you'd hinted around you and I meeting at a range we both have used. It's my wish that should we ever cross paths, you ignore me. I shall be doing the same. I wish not to be associated with a poacher, in any way, shape or form. A good day, and a good riddance to you, sir.

It's really not your privilege, right, or place to do on someone else's land what the owner doesn't want done on his land...end of argument. You're on the moral low ground here.

+2

Game wardens love these guys...

I'm guessing that Nemisis is of the younger "entitled" crowd. Or was raised by an even bigger idiot.

He's also a weasel. In the "robin hood" post, he clearly admits to doing it. Now he says it's "wrong." Got caught and now trying to back pedal. Too late.

You put this in a way that is soooo easy to understand! The logic is crystal clear. Good job.

Alan

As a landowner, I've had several confrontations with trespassers over the years. All the trespassers were doing so knowingly and all felt entitled.

Shoot a trespasser around here and you'll probably go to jail. I won't say LE is on the side of the trespassers (which is what this is really about rather than strictly poaching) but it leans that way to the extent of not assuming a big gap between the party that owns the property and the one who doesn't if there is a conflict. Not just in Kansas, but in Missouri too. At least, that is the way I view it.

I've seen quite a few posts referencing ordering people off land that the posters didn't really own. I live amongst a bunch of my extended family, some of which I used to farm with. They were constantly bitching about trespassers and relating what should be done if one of us encountered one on any of our land. After a couple of times either being around when one of these jokers encountered a trespasser and also having run some people off their lands (with my relatives ostensibly countenancing it beforehand) I can offer a bit of sage advice. Be sure of who your friends are. Mine would not back me up after the fact. To be brutally honest, they pussed out and left me hanging. I no longer farm with them to any great extent nor even associate with them much. If I tell somebody, "you see an unauthorized person while you're on my land (farming, hunting, whatever) run their ass off," then you can be dammed sure I will tell the cops exactly what I told you if there is a problem. I will also back you up 100% if the trespasser asks me about it.

Not really. Maybe it's splitting hairs but it is ALL to do with ethics, morals, right and wrong and most of all LEGALITIES. The latter is what you will be dealing with if you order somebody off and it goes south.

Then it is ok by you if I come by your house without your permission and dic your hot wife as long as you don't know?

Yes the land owner is right in all cases and doesn't have to explain to anyone why!!! Did your momma have to give you an explaination every time she said no???

You're either lying now and trying to get out of your admission that you're a poacher, or you were lying then.

I doubt it the latter.

Only if he doesn't want you hunting on his land.

Directed to Nemesis.

The only thing I think you could hunt for on his land is a missing child, but even then he could refuse until law enforcement got involved. But I doubt very seriously that many would refuse that and even offer to help. There are always exceptions.

He is the owner of the land and all use rights came with the purchase except mineral rights unless he purchased those also. If you want to hunt on his land then purchase a hunting lease. See the pattern? If he doesn't want you to sell you that, then you still do not have any right or business hunting on his property.

Ever.

I don't know about the rest of you but he suckered me. Up until that post I thought he was serious. Since I'm pretty sure everyone's parents taught them that "two wrongs don't make a right" and if they were neglect and didn't, I'm pretty sure they still teach it in kindergarten, (I know my 8 year old has known it for years) this is OBVIOUSLY a joke.
Good one Nemesis.

Neme, if it's a joke, ok. If it's not, git yer head outta yer azz. The dude owns the property...not you. Where I come from, your attitude could get you shot....or at least arrested.


maddog

Why am I not surprised that Nemesis has little to no respect for a landowners rights?

He has admitted to hunting on others property without permission, as if it were his right to do so.

Where is the funny in that?

Doesn't matter what you or I think, it is his property so it is his choice. Agree with it, don't agree with it or think he belongs in a loony bin; it's his choice.

If someone has a pasture but no livestock in it does that mean the neighbor can put his livestock in there? I've heard of it happening. In one instance the livestock owners justification was "Well you wern't using it." Needless to say he didn't like going to the sale barn to buy his cattle back. He also has a lot of problems getting along with his neighbors.

A property owner has every right to bar access to his property. Hwever,I have had 3 encounters with jerks who ATTEMPTED to throw me off of land that was NOT theirs. I don't play well with [bleep] so all 3 of these nearly turned violent. Tough luck for them if it did. I absolutely will NOT trespass,but if some crudbrain thinks that they can pull crap like that on me, I get downright hostile.

Some of the relatives I spoke of earlier have some excellent deer hunting land just north of here. They stupidly let a couple of poor white trash families hunt there. The next thing you know, these assclowns were fighting over who got to hunt where, trying to run each other off, etc. A bud of mine's mom owns land right across from me that is the same-great hunting. She is feeble and people trespass on her land all the time. They have shot at each other back in there over who got to trespass in what spot.

Cole the jerks I had the encounters with OWNED the adjacent land. Some appear to push the envelope for all they can get..for free. Unfortunately a lot of folks may be perfectly in the right,but are NOT certain. One of the encounters:corner lot of 50 acres surrounded by State land. State land has a yellow blaze to define the boundaries. I was hunting the edge of a swamp on the state land when the jerk (I recognized him) came up and started to yell at me to get the hell off of HIS land. I would guess that 90% of folks may have done just that. Another encounter, 400 acres were purchased and duly posted AND the idiot proceeded to post a line that amounted to another 200 acres. Problem. That particular 200 acres belonged to a good friend of mine. When the idiot tried to throw me off of THAT land,I got downright mean. I would have liked to drill a hole in his face with a dull brace and bit.

Whole other issue, something that is not uncommon, even in my limited experience.

Tied together IMO. land greed comes out very quickly.

Kinda makes you wonder how he got his handle..

But not wonder too much....

Indeed, some of the jackasses I'm speaking about are adjacent to my land. I'm sure they hunt on me whenever possible. They have one of their family in as a Game Warden now.

" You guys can be the judge of that!",......

Yup, and I'd venture that the current concencus is that you are a no-goodnick of the worst order.

A POACHER !,....and a TRESPASSING criminal.

Your post some time back about ravening around preying on those folks who had focused on self sufficiency confirmed that for me, back then.

You pretty much assured us there that you are also a back-shooting sneak.

BRrrrrr,

GTC





GTC

A large timber company adjoins me on the north. I have very good relations with them. Technically they cannot give me permission to hunt on them and I don't because I don't have to. But verbally they have said, "no problem".

I return the favor by allowing their employees access across my land and the use of an old cabin.

Around here poaching is not a great problem. Dope growers who are usually armed and dangerous are another story.

I see that the criminal who generated all this heat seems to have retired from the fray. Has he recently been up on other strings?

Yes




Yes




Yes




Yes

I pay taxes on both sides of the street.........doesnt give me the right to drive on both sides at the same time.

he is a trespassor some would say a thief...

Not good... If I ask and you say "no" well I will take it anyway.


Not good IMO

I know he suggested it's not 'right' but what he really meant is...

Kinda looking that way. Why does he continue to post? There's no justification.

The jury has reached a decision...and that decision is...?

Guilty__

Not Guilty__

Geaux, you nailed it and knocked that one outta the park!

It is the same as if some one broke into your home, took the things they wanted, cause you would not give those things to that person when that person ask...


A long way of saying thief.


If it is not just Internet Puffery

Reading this guys last justification post is nauseating. What an entitled a$$hole.

Love this one:



So he's not entitled to lower taxes, but you're entitled to use his land, which you don't pay any taxes on?

You'd have made a good welfare monkey.

This guy is the type of a-hole that gives hunters a bad name and causes farmers to post land in the first place.

We have an extra bedroom that is usually not used.

A bum knocks on the door and asks to use it for a few nights. I know I have the right to deny him, but is it Right?

He probably IS a good welfare monkey.

Agreed.
This sort of behavior is why so many folks don't like hunters.
Sad deal.

Sadly enough, the welfare monkeys are often the only ones with enough time to actually hunt as much as they would like.

But my intent was simply to express the outright frustration felt by many hunters when they try to act responsibly and they are routinely denied access to land without ever receiving even the slightest explanation for why this action was taken.

The landowner has the right to do this of course...............but is he "right" in doing it?

You guys can be the judge of that!



Above, just a toned down version of what you view as your rights.

Sort of like being half-pregnant.

However........and it's a big however......I do believe that this issue is not as black and white as I would like it to be and............,
........ (fixed it for you).

And above, exactly why only those I can trust hunt on my property. They help out to show your kind exactly what your rights are.

Rationalize it all you want, and all you will do is create more frustration you claim to be against.

Too much work, especially when they can get SNAP.

I have to admit, after 23 pages, this thread has done something unexpected. It has reinstilled in me a tiny fragment of previously lost faith in the American hunter at large.
Good on ya's....

Simply put you are an idiot and a poacher. Leave now.

Don't make such a big fuss about poachers. Don't do the confrontation thing. Do like I did with the poacher that kept coming on my Dad's land. He drove there right? Just find his truck and shoot a big hole through the engine block. Believe me they never come back. Well maybe with a tow truck. The 378 blows them engine blocks to bit with a 300 grain slug- good penetration.

When I was a kid, we pretty much went wherever we wanted to go and hunt. We went on other people's land without asking and we expected people to come on our land without asking. That was just the way it was. As long as nobody did anything stupid like leaving gates down or anything like that all was well. Everyone pretty much was well behaved and people went wherever the wanted without too much complaint. It was a nice way to do things, except for one thing.....

WE HAD NO DEER!

We could hunt a week solid and see one or two deer, if that. Now that land use has tightened up and land is ASSUMED to be posted unless you have WRITTEN permission from the owner and the timber companies have locked their gates, there are deer everywhere. Now, I am dissappointed if I don't see a deer while hunting and sometimes, I see dozens on a single trip.

So, call me a fan of tighter land use restrictions. Yes, I know I have plenty of my own land to hunt so that kind of makes me biased, but even if I didn't, I'm pretty sure that I could find a relatively inexpensive lease or be able to hunt on public land and my chances of success would be FAR greater than they were in the days where I could hunt wherever I wanted.

i posted on another forum about the likes of this numb nut. its the reason my land[200acres] is closed to hunters. ive hunted for 70 years now [yes 70 years] i hunt almost every day from sept-dec and still enjoy the hunt i taught my children better and their children also. just a post note my grandson came home from college over xmas he called to see if he could come over and stay for a couple days and hunt together [they live 40 miles away] the joy of teaching him the love of the hunt and to have him at my side. and with the right attitude [just an old mans observation]

So, say you let someone on your land for hunting, fishing,camping or whatever. They leave a gate open, cows are now on the honor system to stay where they belong. I have NEVER owned an honorable cow so they head for the road. A car hits a cow, maybe the bull you paid twice what your pickup costs new. The little Honda car takes the legs off your big $$$ bull and he lands in the front seats of the car. Let's say a pregnant mother and her two year old are dead.

So, who's fault is it. Not the inconsiderable idiot who left the gate open. Nope. You the land owner get to pay, and you loose your $$$ bull, and you don't sleep well for the rest of your life because you are a decent kind of guy and you have a conscience and will always wonder if you could have caught the open gate before anything happened.

So, what is you tell the guy no hunting, fishing or whatever and he does it anyway? The results are the same.

I have let people hunt, fish, camp and whatever. They seemed like nice folks at the time but when I went back I find farm equipment shot full of holes including hundred pound propane tanks, gates open and once one was burned for firewood, hay fields torn to up by ATV tracks, trash left everywhere including those #@*^%(%#@#@@@#*(& plastic bags that cows love to eat and then die horrible deaths when the plastic plugs the reticulum, campfires left burning with huge logs left burning and fifteen feet left out in the bone dry sagebrush and bunch grass, deer shot to hell and left where they lay, 18 inch trout left on the creek bank, my favorite campsite destroyed, outhouses torn apart for fire wood... the list goes on.

When I owned land that people wanted to hunt, fish, camp or whatever I did my best to be the nice guy. I let strangers that looked OK to enjoy the land I had care over. Many, no make that most treated it and me well. But I can understand those who say NO and I respect their right to do so.

Today I have have just a little 40 acres. No one wants to hunt or fish here. I do have guests camp here and we even have two guest cabins set up. We never charge. But if I owned land I would still let those who look OK to enjoy it. Maybe I am a slow learner.

You sir fit the quintessential definition of a Poacher period. The fact of the matter is (taking some liberty here) that there is no one who reads this thread here that would want you or ilk around them. Think about it----no matter what you say or what you post You Will Always Be Known As The "POACHER" and would go so far as to suggest that you change your screen name to that because every single time you post someone will bring that up. Might as well embrace the truth here that you are pond scum because there is no alternative.

[quote=Jeff_O]Wow. You really are just that stupid.

[quote=nemesis]Hi Fella's........

Dude: Bitsh slapped by Jeff_O. Ah man that hurts.

bumblebee: let me reply to your state owns everything statement: when the government official comes to your door and tells you what you can do or not do on your property i then have to wonder and ponder your thoughts. if we give every jerk the authority to question our decision as to what we can do or not do with our property we have lost even our basic rights. i would like to think that even in these troubled times our homes are our castles and that includes the lands around them. your senerio gives rise to: and i paraphrase buuba clinton "what is is". and by the way i really dont think we owe any one an explanation why we wont let them exploit our property for whatevery be the reason. like i said in this forum earlier i have 200 acres of prime deer property and used to let anyone hunt it not any more it is posted there is just to many numbnuts roaming around. to many beer cans and trash left behind not to mention tearing the place up with their 4 wheelers. not to mention taking my corn to put around their stands. my attitude is hunters need not apply. just an old mans observation.

Read the rest of his many posts on The Campfire and you will believe. His along with 17ackleybbbrain's (Mr. Avatar).

edited to add: It's not so much the act, itself, as his justification of it. Sad.

Whether it's land or other personal belongings everyone has a right to say no and yes it is right to say no. They don't owe you an explaination. You ask a land owner if you can hunt his property and he says no, there's lots of possible reasons. Maybe he's been burned too many times in the past. Maybe he's got a large family and they hunt the property and he doesn't want anyone else stirring up the deer. Either way it doesn't matter. He bought it, if he says no, tough schit.

If you can't handle the answer don't ask the question. When asking to hunt private land, you're asking a favor of a complete stranger. You should assume the answer is no and be happy when someone says yes.

I've read this entire thread and I can't help but make comparisons to the BrotherDave child support thread and the Stick's new love thread. We know how those turned out.

Now, that there is the plain ol' simple truth. Sad tho that it even has to be said.

' i sure hope that's the case. just can't see a grown man trying to justify bad behavior

I bet it was my crossed eyes that gave it away, huh?

Danibal Kurtz

Doesn't matter, either he's a low life poacher, or an equally low troll.

Put another way; Those who would disregard or ignore it are the unbalanced ones.

Wonder if "she said no but she was not using it" would justify rape in his mind?


Not direccted to you old toot used quick reply.

how in the world can you say it is wrong and under no circumstances to be tolerated - and two sentences later say it is not black & white??????? DUH!

No problem Eddy Bo. Your part of the world doesn't tolerate trespassing too well either, does it! Better know where you put your foot down in Miss.

What I don't understand is how a thread like this generates so many responses.........The very second the OP opened his yap he made himself understood as an idiot. Now give this thread a burial and be done with it.

You don't watch soaps, do you? Me neither, but I bet on Days Of Our lives, they don't just bury the plot!

Why? All those boys were doing was assisting, studying and observing folks...

"I bet it was my crossed eyes that gave it away, huh?

Danibal Kurtz"

Dat's FUNNY !

You're about as "Crazy" as a Fox,.....but sure can put on a credible act, I'll venture.

How's "Bob",.....?

Fed him any miscreants recent ?

GTC

Has the subject of this thread left the building?