"George Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to," Guy said. "He shot him for the worst of all reasons: because he wanted to."
What Total BS. This is gonna be ugly.
Amazing. He didn't even pull it from his pocket till he was nearly unconscious from having his head slammed against the concrete curbside Tony Soprano-style.
I'd be willing to bet this plays out with Zimmerman being found guilty but with a sentence that is extremely light - just long enough for this to be forgotten by the public, and instead of Zimmermans life being ruined when he gets out of jail, he'll have some book tour or talk radio gig lined up.
That way no side is happy but both can be satisfied that their cause was served and public outrage is subdued.
I'd be willing to bet this plays out with Zimmerman being found guilty but with a sentence that is extremely light - just long enough for this to be forgotten by the public, and instead of Zimmermans life being ruined when he gets out of jail, he'll have some book tour or talk radio gig lined up.
That way no side is happy but both can be satisfied that their cause was served and public outrage is subdued.
Your scenario certainly doesn't bode well for the future prospects of those who may need to resort to lethal force to save their lives or limbs from criminal aggression. We are left with a Hobson's choice, i.e., that between pleading for mercy from the violent criminal or having our lives ruined by the criminal justice system.
I pray he is found not guilty of any and all charges and the jury returns that verdict in fifteen minutes or less. The man was defending his life, he did nothing wrong.
I pray he is found not guilty of any and all charges and the jury returns that verdict in fifteen minutes or less. The man was defending his life, he did nothing wrong.
I pray he is found not guilty of any and all charges and the jury returns that verdict in fifteen minutes or less. The man was defending his life, he did nothing wrong.
I'm reading now the lawyer is discounting Zimmerman's story because they didn't find Trayvon's DNA on the gun or on Zimmerman's hands
Does someone have to physically touch the gun before you can determine they are "going for it?" I don't think so.
And if Zimmerman shot Trayvon point blank (which has been determined and backed up by eye witness), there is no DNA of Trayvon to be found on Zimmerman?
he didn't have to shoot him, he could have kept his gun at rest and found out whether Trayvon was just gonna beat him unconscious or kill him.
but I'd bet if I was slamming that prosecutors head against the concrete, he'd "want" to shoot me.
What possible scenario would put you in a place to do that? The verdict will all be based upon Zimmermans actions leading up to pulling the trigger. After all, he wasn't being beaten on his own property or in his home.
he didn't have to shoot him, he could have kept his gun at rest and found out whether Trayvon was just gonna beat him unconscious or kill him.
but I'd bet if I was slamming that prosecutors head against the concrete, he'd "want" to shoot me.
What possible scenario would put you in a place to do that? The verdict will all be based upon Zimmermans actions leading up to pulling the trigger. After all, he wasn't being beaten on his own property or in his home.
Merely taking steps to keep someone in view doesn't lawfully justify a physical assault.
he didn't have to shoot him, he could have kept his gun at rest and found out whether Trayvon was just gonna beat him unconscious or kill him.
but I'd bet if I was slamming that prosecutors head against the concrete, he'd "want" to shoot me.
That would be true except for the part that Zimmerman did not pull the gun until Crayon saw it and reached for it. He was going to shoot Zimmerman with his own gun, that is when Zimmerman beat him to the draw.
The prosecution is pulling out all the stops. IMHO, they don't really believe their line of bull as to why Zimmerman shot Martin, but they know that their claim can't be refuted on the basis of their evidence so they have justified to themselves making that claim.
The prosecution is pulling out all the stops. IMHO, they don't really believe their line of bull as to why Zimmerman shot Martin, but they know that their claim can't be refuted on the basis of their evidence so they have justified to themselves making that claim.
that's considered a prerequisite to being a successful lawyer.
I pray he is found not guilty of any and all charges and the jury returns that verdict in fifteen minutes or less. The man was defending his life, he did nothing wrong.
he didn't have to shoot him, he could have kept his gun at rest and found out whether Trayvon was just gonna beat him unconscious or kill him.
but I'd bet if I was slamming that prosecutors head against the concrete, he'd "want" to shoot me.
What possible scenario would put you in a place to do that? The verdict will all be based upon Zimmermans actions leading up to pulling the trigger. After all, he wasn't being beaten on his own property or in his home.
Merely taking steps to keep someone in view doesn't lawfully justify a physical assault.
True but it's hard to get your ass beat by staying in your locked car a house or two away and staying in contact with the cops.
he didn't have to shoot him, he could have kept his gun at rest and found out whether Trayvon was just gonna beat him unconscious or kill him.
but I'd bet if I was slamming that prosecutors head against the concrete, he'd "want" to shoot me.
What possible scenario would put you in a place to do that? The verdict will all be based upon Zimmermans actions leading up to pulling the trigger. After all, he wasn't being beaten on his own property or in his home.
Merely taking steps to keep someone in view doesn't lawfully justify a physical assault.
True but it's hard to get your ass beat by staying in your locked car a house or two away and staying in contact with the cops.
Neither of which he had any obligation to do. He was getting his head beat in on a sidewalk, if I remember correctly, and that is community property which was in a developement in which Zimmerman owned property, where he had every right to be.
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
Perhaps we should just stay inside our homes and never venture outside least some fine upstanding citizen decide to beat our heads against the concrete.
I pray he is found not guilty of any and all charges and the jury returns that verdict in fifteen minutes or less. The man was defending his life, he did nothing wrong.
Absolutely!
Fully agree !
+1
Originally Posted by Virginian2
Originally Posted by Hotload
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Scott F
I pray he is found not guilty of any and all charges and the jury returns that verdict in fifteen minutes or less. The man was defending his life, he did nothing wrong.
Well he thought Zimmerman was going to be easy meat, George did nothing wrong other than defending himself and the Cops agreed with it. This is politically driven, the little sewer rat got what he deserved !
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
I considered that initially but there is another reason that Zimmerman didn't back off.
Zimmerman was actually in tight with the local police as they worked with the neighborhood watch in that area. While I see the argument that Zimmerman didn't listen to 911, I can also see that he had been told how to operate the neighborhood watch by the local police and you don't watch a suspect by staying in your car while they go out of site.
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
"George Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon Martin because he had to," Guy said. "He shot him for the worst of all reasons: because he wanted to."
What Total BS. This is gonna be ugly.
Did you really think it would be any other way?
Since the physical facts (as reported) tend to support Zimmerman, the prosecutor has to come up with some kind of logic be it BS or not, to justify the charges & the trial.
This is 110% politically & racially motivated; if it were not, there'd be no trial.
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
He wasn't trying to "deal" with him, but merely keep his position in view for the police. When police told him to return to his car, he turned and headed back, upon which he was attacked by Martin who only then jumped out of the shadows.
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
valid reason I guess is the issue - Zimmerman lived in a neighborhood where crime was out of control, he was in charge of the neighborhood watch (with the blessing of the local police) and his valid reason was a kid that he wasn't familiar with as a resident was cutting across at night.
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
No kidding. If there were more pusssies then the bad guys wouldn't have to kill so many good guys.
It should be a slam dunk for the defense with 5 white women on the jury. This thug could have thrown you to the ground forced himself on you or you could have shot him. If Trevon could have been Obamas son. Zimmerman could have been any of us protecting ourselves. Let him be our O.J. even though he isn't white or guilty as sin
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
Maybe you should look at it like this...if you're walking down some street and some guy starts following you and you run away and hide and have the chance to get away from him, why would you turn around and then follow him when he loses track of you and is walking back to his vehicles? Why would you then jump him from behind and start pounding his head against the pavement?
What the prosecution is trying to do is introduce extraneous facts into the situation. Nothing matters except the fact that Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal and Martin assaulted him and was inflicting wounds upon him. Martin Zimmerman feared for his life and or limb and pulled his gun and shot him causing Martin to decease. Martin was in the process of committing a felony and very possibly had the intent to kill Zimmerman. It is easily a case of justifiable homicide.
Zimmerman fired in defense of life and limb. The only possible reason he could be prosecuted is if he himself was committing a crime at the time and he wasn't. Martin was committing a crime by assaulting Zimmerman. Zimmerman rightly feared that he was going to die or be severely, perhaps permanently, injured. That's Justifiable Homicide.
Zimmerman fired in defense of life and limb. The only possible reason he could be prosecuted is if he himself was committing a crime at the time and he wasn't. Martin was committing a crime by assaulting Zimmerman. Zimmerman rightly feared that he was going to die or be severely, perhaps permanently, injured. That's Justifiable Homicide.
Any rational person agrees with you. This should never have gone to trial obviously.
It's a witch hunt and they'll extract their pound of flesh to keep the savages happy.
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
valid reason I guess is the issue - Zimmerman lived in a neighborhood where crime was out of control, he was in charge of the neighborhood watch (with the blessing of the local police) and his valid reason was a kid that he wasn't familiar with as a resident was cutting across at night.
I've seen no solid proof that Zimmerman ever confronted Travon. If he did, it was because there had been a ton of break-ins in the area and Martin had no valid reason to be there that Zimmerman could discern. As a private citizen, Zimmerman is not bound by some Departmental Policy to not "profile". Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong in any of the scenarios I've seen presented, save for the possibility that he himself assaulted Martin and then pulled his gun and shot him when he started getting an ass whuppin'. This latter is unbelievable as the facts as known do not point to it. So it is possible but not probable. The Defense has to make its case beyond a shadow of a doubt and the facts as I've seen them wouldn't even allow a conviction on the lower burden of the preponderance of evidence, let alone the required burden.
Zimmerman fired in defense of life and limb. The only possible reason he could be prosecuted is if he himself was committing a crime at the time and he wasn't. Martin was committing a crime by assaulting Zimmerman. Zimmerman rightly feared that he was going to die or be severely, perhaps permanently, injured. That's Justifiable Homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
Zimmerman claims he was headed back to his vehicle when Martin confronted and attacked him. I tend to believe him.
From what I remember of the incident, Martin said something to Zimmerman to the affect, "you're going to die tonight". This was after he caught up with Zimmerman and prior to striking him in the face the first time.
When selecting jurors, don't lawyers on both side pick the jurors? I'm wondering if selecting all women to the jury was a good move on their part.
he didn't have to shoot him, he could have kept his gun at rest and found out whether Trayvon was just gonna beat him unconscious or kill him.
but I'd bet if I was slamming that prosecutors head against the concrete, he'd "want" to shoot me.
What possible scenario would put you in a place to do that? The verdict will all be based upon Zimmermans actions leading up to pulling the trigger. After all, he wasn't being beaten on his own property or in his home.
Merely taking steps to keep someone in view doesn't lawfully justify a physical assault.
True but it's hard to get your ass beat by staying in your locked car a house or two away and staying in contact with the cops.
Obama is gonna save you isnt he? By your argument Zimmerman deserved to be assaulted? Because he simply decided not to stay in his vehicle?
From what I remember of the incident, Martin said something to Zimmerman to the affect, "you're going to die tonight". This was after he caught up with Zimmerman and prior to striking him in the face the first time.
Man, can you write fiction! You should quit your day job and start writing novels right now.
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
Your line of thinking is why your state is in the sad sad shape it is in. Heaven forbid you be proactive in assisting with the security and currwnt wvents of your community. Instead just close the doors and put the carebears videos on and everything will be ok, cause someone else will deal with the tough stuff
From what I remember of the incident, Martin said something to Zimmerman to the affect, "you're going to die tonight". This was after he caught up with Zimmerman and prior to striking him in the face the first time.
Man, can you write fiction! You should quit your day job and start writing novels right now.
Yep, Brent that comes from Zimmerman's own words, in a video where he walks the police through the fight and subsequent shooting. You probably didn't see that on MSN or CNN so I will give you a pass. Although he does have the timing off, Zimmerman claimed that when Trayvon was on top of him, beating him, he spotted his gun and reached for it, saying "you're going to die today", that is when Zimmerman says he pulled the gun and shot Trayvon.
I can't believe the prosecutor wanted 5 white women. I can only assume he thinks he will prey on their maternal instincts of what if it were your son.
A white woman married OJ. Most white women voted for Obama. I think you should re-draw your conclusions.
well maybe - but I don't think race will be the driver on their decisions -I believe its going to be whether Zimmerman is the guy protecting them from rape or the man that killed their son.
And their views on race may play a big part in how they see it.
From what I remember of the incident, Martin said something to Zimmerman to the affect, "you're going to die tonight". This was after he caught up with Zimmerman and prior to striking him in the face the first time.
Man, can you write fiction! You should quit your day job and start writing novels right now.
Fiction huh, seems that my memory is much better than your's, clown. And I even posted a link from your favorite site, CNN, just so you would read it.
It's true Brent...at least it's Zimmermans account.
The other guy ain't sayin much.
And Zimmerman would NEVER lie - would he? okay. Well, I'll at least wait until the jury comes back with a verdict.
+1 . From the comments one reads on this thread it is like they were there personally witnessing everything that happened.
The jury ain't gonna know more than most people here on this thread.
SO, you have to ask yourself, what is the most plausible scenario?
I've made up my mind.
If da bullshit don't fit...you must acquit!
Here is an excerpt from Zimmermans statement:
Martin, he said, put his hand over Zimmerman's mouth and nose and told him, "You're going to die tonight."
"When I slid, my jacket and my shirt came up. ... I felt his hand go down my side, and I thought he was going for my firearm, so I grabbed it immediately, and as he banged my head again, I just pulled out my firearm and shot him."
Now the prosecutor is saying there was no Zimmerman DNA on his hands and no Martin DNA on the gun but Martin probably never grabbed the gun. Zimmerman is a liar.
Opening statements are not evidence. There is nothing more devastating for a attorney, who is hyperbolic and dishonest as to where the evidence will lead, as when the other side uses your opening to piecemeal humiliate and destroy your opening in closing argument once the evidence has been presented.
That prosecutor best hope he can prove his opening. After his bad start today, he has a tough hill to climb.
Now the prosecutor is saying there was no Zimmerman DNA on his hands and no Martin DNA on the gun but Martin probably never grabbed the gun. Zimmerman is a liar.
That sort of evidence is only persuasive in the positive, not in the negative, i.e., the absence of DNA isn't particularly weighty for drawing any conclusions, while the presence of it, under the right circumstances, would be. Sort of like finding several pins on the ground at a murder scene might tend to implicate the pin salesman if he had previously denied being there, but the absence of any pins on the ground wouldn't tend to exculpate the pin salesman.
Now the prosecutor is saying there was no Zimmerman DNA on his hands and no Martin DNA on the gun but Martin probably never grabbed the gun. Zimmerman is a liar.
Opening statements are not evidence. There is nothing more devastating for a attorney, who is hyperbolic and dishonest as to where the evidence will lead, as when the other side uses your opening to piecemeal humiliate and destroy your opening in closing argument once the evidence has been presented.
That prosecutor best hope he can prove his opening. After his bad start today, he has a tough hill to climb.
Bob I thought the prosecutor put himself on a pretty high pedestal too. However the defense attorney made some statements that made me go "huh"? Almost like he was trying to spin it as an accidental discharge and not self defense
BrentD your still about as sharp as a basketball? I didn't see Zimmerman on facebook holding up guns, gang signs, smoking dope and acting like a typical nig! I do know that old trayvon was suspended from school for dope, out past his bed time, unsupervised from his parents, with records of text messages about drugs ect. I would tend to take Zimmerman's account over some uncontrolled teenager who thought he was a thug!
Opening statements are not evidence. There is nothing more devastating for a attorney, who is hyperbolic and dishonest as to where the evidence will lead, as when the other side uses your opening to piecemeal humiliate and destroy your opening in closing argument once the evidence has been presented.
That prosecutor best hope he can prove his opening. After his bad start today, he has a tough hill to climb.
Bob I thought the prosecutor put himself on a pretty high pedestal too. However the defense attorney made some statements that made me go "huh"? Almost like he was trying to spin it as an accidental discharge and not self defense
Well I've thought of this as a justifiable homicide all along. But the defense's opening with a knock-knock joke couldn't have been more insensitive than it was. That will stick with the bleeding heart women on that jury.
What an absolute @ss of an attorney! "Idiot' puts it mildly.
BTW dipshchit, witch hunts haven't been the popular way of determining guilt since the 18th century.
Witch hunts seem mighty popular here and you seem loaded and ready to go on safari yourself. Got a good hate goin', lookin' really good for a little witchin' safari of your own.
Screw Martin, his family, and the black community! Whiny little biotches all of them!
If Zimmerman had been killed his family would have defended their POS son til the end but it turned out the other way. [bleep] them.
Actually from what I have seen, Martin's family has been handling this with class, saying all they want is for the facts to be brought out one way or another. I don't believe I have heard them play the race card at all.
Screw Martin, his family, and the black community! Whiny little biotches all of them!
If Zimmerman had been killed his family would have defended their POS son til the end but it turned out the other way. [bleep] them.
Actually from what I have seen, Martin's family has been handling this with class, saying all they want is for the facts to be brought out one way or another. I don't believe I have heard them play the race card at all.
No. The last thing I heard from them was to tell people not to riot in the streets........unless Zimmmerman is aquitted.
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
Does observing somebody from a distance not qualify as keeping your distance? That is why the facts are important. Did he follow Martin at close range or keep him in view from a distance? How far did Martin travel to confront Zimmerman?
Screw Martin, his family, and the black community! Whiny little biotches all of them!
If Zimmerman had been killed his family would have defended their POS son til the end but it turned out the other way. [bleep] them.
Actually from what I have seen, Martin's family has been handling this with class, saying all they want is for the facts to be brought out one way or another. I don't believe I have heard them play the race card at all.
No. The last thing I heard from them was to tell people not to riot in the streets........unless Zimmmerman is aquitted.
==============
Maybe from your friends but you didn't hear that from their family, at all.
Screw Martin, his family, and the black community! Whiny little biotches all of them!
If Zimmerman had been killed his family would have defended their POS son til the end but it turned out the other way. [bleep] them.
Actually from what I have seen, Martin's family has been handling this with class, saying all they want is for the facts to be brought out one way or another. I don't believe I have heard them play the race card at all.
No. The last thing I heard from them was to tell people not to riot in the streets........unless Zimmmerman is aquitted.
Zimmerman shot Trayvon because Trayvon attacked him. He COULD have shot him from a safe distance AT ANY TIME, if that was his goal. I don't know WHERE you guys are coming from. You seem to think when somebody attacks you, you need to wait until there has been a failed attempt to kill you. Apparrently, a real threat is not at that threshold. The problem is, attempts to kill you may not fail....Trayvon also was in possession of tools to break into houses, as well as jewelery that was stolen from houses in the area. Seems like Zimmerman was right.
"It should be a slam dunk for the defense with 5 white women on the jury. ..."
Don't ever count on that. Don't forget, several million white women voted twice for Barak Hussein Obama ... in order to assuage their overwhleming white guilt.
But I still think its ridiculous that given the evidence, that it even went to trial.
Pretty clear cut scum, in the wrong place and time for scum to be.
I hate it that anyone had to be shot, and that Zimmerman must live with it and the results, but should have been given a gold star for doing the world in whole some good.
There are a few more scum that would be better off dead in this world too.
No loss here. And probably saved some other murder/rape etc.. along the way.
Quite right. Defense counsel made HUGE mistake allowing an all female jury in this situation. Zimmerman stands a good chance of being convicted despite having a meritorious defense.
My word. The chatter of lay folks is interesting, to say the least. 2 of the jurors have CCPs. The husband of one has a CCP.The prosecutor tried to strike 1 of the jurors who remains.
If Zimmerman testifies, which is now a necessity, it's a hung jury at a minimum. If nothing crazy comes in we are aware of, this is a acquittal inside one full day of deliberations.
If Zimmerman testifies, which is now a necessity, it's a hung jury at a minimum. If nothing crazy comes in we are aware of, this is a acquittal inside one full day of deliberations.
Any bets on that?
I'll buy the hung jury, maybe, but less so the acquittal.
I don't think that I want to live in Bent's America. This travon cat was a piece of garbage. He is the kind of guy that Brent would champion.
Yeah, you want to live in a place that is ruled by vigilantism, has no due process under the law, and in general, does away with every right that the Constitution provides us. I'm afraid I'd like to stick with the Real America. And that means due process for everyone.
brent, had trayvon not assaulted Zimmerman. He woukd have likely had his due process. Frankly neighborhood watches are good, useful tools. I wish more areas would get them going. This wasnt vigilantism. This was a wanna be gangbanger who phicked with the wrong guy and won the prize. Those photos of Zimmermans head and broken nose tells the story to me.
Zimmerman had every right to be there. He lived in that gated community. I know of no laws that say you cannot observe someone who you bekieve to be suspicious. Martin. Had no right to attack him.
It's going to become a real scary place here in Florida if this is anything but a slam dunk for Zimmerman. The word will be out that it's open season on whitie, and there's not a damned thing he can legally do to defend himself.
There is logical proof that Zimmerman was attacked from behind as he was walking back to his truck. If he had been facing Trayvon then Trayvon would have not been able to beat him up and knock him down because Zimmerman would have shot him first.
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
You could make a pretty good case that he did follow the 911 operators instructions. That he was walking back to his truck when Martin attacked him from behind. This is the only explanation for the whipping Martin gave Zimmerman. I mean is it believable that Zimmerman would allow Martin to almost kill him without him pulling out his gun unless he was attacked from behind?
The physical evidence is that Martin battered Zimmerman. The investigating cops didn't Arrest him because they called it a justifiable homicide.
That being said... IMO Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid while armed. If he had backed off from following Martin there wouldn't have been a shooting. 911 told Zimmerman to let the cops deal with Martin.
I considered that initially but there is another reason that Zimmerman didn't back off.
Zimmerman was actually in tight with the local police as they worked with the neighborhood watch in that area. While I see the argument that Zimmerman didn't listen to 911, I can also see that he had been told how to operate the neighborhood watch by the local police and you don't watch a suspect by staying in your car while they go out of site.
Zimmerman did back off and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked from behind. Do you think Martin could have almost killed Zimmerman if he didn't attack from behind?
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
All Zimmerman did was walk down the street watching Martin. He didn't confront Martin. He was walking back to his car after talking to 911 and Martin attacked him from behind.
The Defense has to make its case beyond a shadow of a doubt and the facts as I've seen them wouldn't even allow a conviction on the lower burden of the preponderance of evidence, let alone the required burden.
And for the dumbazzes who keep saying Zimmerman ignored orders from the "police", 911 dispatchers are not the police.
Well Zimmerman was outside his truck following Martin when he called 911. He turned around and starting walking back to his truck when he was attacked by Martin. Thats why Martin was able to almost kill him before being shot.
Just think if you were in Zimmerman's position and watching Martin wouldn't you pull your pistol and shot Martin before he could beat you up?
I asked those who claim that Zimmerman is guilty of murder for evidence that supports his guilt. The best they could come up with is that the Zimmerman's description of the position of Martins body was incorrect. He said that makes Zimmerman a liar and murder. Just amazing.
Yeah, you want to live in a place that is ruled by vigilantism, has no due process under the law, and in general, does away with every right that the Constitution provides us. I'm afraid I'd like to stick with the Real America. And that means due process for everyone.
There was no vigilantism. Zimmerman was following Martin and only shot him after he was beaten up, pinned to the ground and having his head bashed in. He was risk of dying and had every justification for shooting.
I don't think that I want to live in Bent's America. This travon cat was a piece of garbage. He is the kind of guy that Brent would champion.
Yeah, you want to live in a place that is ruled by vigilantism, has no due process under the law, and in general, does away with every right that the Constitution provides us. I'm afraid I'd like to stick with the Real America. And that means due process for everyone.
Well... maybe if you ain't doing things in areas you have no business in, at times you shouldn't be around, and then don't try to beat to death a dude thats simply trying to keep an eye on you, you won't end up with "vigilante" justice.
I agree that wild uncontrolled vigilantism isn't a good thing, but this one clearly, IMHO got what he needed. Probably a shame it wasn't sooner.
after the opening by Zimmerman's lawyer yesterday, I'd be worried if I were Zimmerman.
The prosecutor is going for the jugular while his guy is telling knock knock jokes.
Is the trial being broadcast live on television? If so, what channel and time?
I don't know - I'm just watching it on the news. I'm not an expert but what I've seen from the prosecutor, he ain't playing - he's knows his jury and is going over the top on drama right now. I bet those women are eating it up too.
Plus he's younger and better looking than Zimmerman's lawyer and if you don't think that means something to these women you ain't taking in all the aspects of reaching a jury.
I'd be losing sleep right now if I were Zimmerman.
It's going to become a real scary place here in Florida
Wait, I thought you said it was already with all the negroes driving pick-up trucks following you?
That said, this is just a politically driven witch hunt by that female district attorney and speaking of females, I'd be [bleep] bricks to be relying on just facts. With them it's all about amotions and feelings...
after the opening by Zimmerman's lawyer yesterday, I'd be worried if I were Zimmerman.
The prosecutor is going for the jugular while his guy is telling knock knock jokes.
Is the trial being broadcast live on television? If so, what channel and time?
The trial is being televised live daily starting in the mornings lasting (except for a lunch break) untill the end of their day on HLN (Head Line News) HD. On satellite Direct TV, it's on channel 204.
I just heard one of the news commentators state a few minutes ago that the home owners association has already had to pay a million dollars to Trayvon Martins family. If you decide to watch it, be forewarned that so far the HLN news talking heads haven't been the least bit sympathetic in their comments and views toward Zimmerman.
The Judge should throw out the charges and declare Zimmerman innocent of all charge after the prosecution rests.
He has to wait for the verdict, but judges are empowered to do that in the direction of acquittal.
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Wrong again! Did someone ever cover Motions To Dismiss or Motions To Strike at the law school you say you attended?
Were you absent the day they taught "judgment non obstante veredicto, abbreviated JNOV, in law school?" No motion is needed. Conrad's scenario suggested an action on the part of the judge, absent motion.
Boy, you sure have a knack for backing the wrong horse, my friend. Bob's wrong. The suggestion that I responded to was for an act of the judge in the absence of a motion, i.e., on his own. That would be JNOV.
The suggestion that I responded to was for an act of the judge in the absence of a motion, =============
Once again, after you get your dumbass handed to you, the back-pedaling comes in full force. You said the Judge had to wait for the verdict to dismiss,dumbschit.
Now, you wish to try again or do you want to highlight some more of your perpetual flailing?
No. Now answer my question since you still don't have a clue.
PS...you do know lawyers don't use Latin in everyday vernacular, right wannabe?
Your pretending cracks me up.
Hey, idiot, JNOV is an abbreviation for a Latin legal term. Many such abbreviations are from the Latin. You sure you're really a practicing attorney?
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Really dumbschit? I've actually been involved in a couple hundred of them rather than just reading about them. In the real world, we say JNOV,though. You keep hanging in there, wannabe. It's priceless stupidity but funny to witness, nonetheless.
The suggestion that I responded to was for an act of the judge in the absence of a motion, =============
Once again, after you get your dumbass handed to you, the back-pedaling comes in full force. You said the Judge had to wait for the verdict to dismiss,dumbschit.
Which he does, dumbschit, if he's going to acquit absent any motion to dismiss. Context is everything.
Really dumbschit? I've actually been involved in a couple hundred of them rather than just reading about them. In the real world, we say JNOV,though. You keep hanging in there, wannabe. It's priceless stupidity but funny to witness, nonetheless.
And you thought it was an abbreviation for an English term??? I'm surprised you're willing to admit that in an open forum. You could have PMed me to save the embarrassment. It would have remained between the two of us.
Boy, you sure have a knack for backing the wrong horse, my friend. Bob's wrong. The suggestion that I responded to was for an act of the judge in the absence of a motion, i.e., on his own. That would be JNOV.
I think most here will take the word of a real life practicing lawyer over a paranoid school teacher who thinks every black guy in a pickup truck is after him.
And you thought it was an abbreviation for an English term??? I'm surprised you're willing to admit that in an open forum. You could have PMed me to save the embarrassment. It would have remained between the two of us. =====================
TFF. Would you like some hot sauce to go with your flailing,school marm?
I think most here will take the word of a real life practicing lawyer over a paranoid shcool teacher who thinks every black guy in a pickup truck is after him.
I hadn't doubted till today that he actually was an attorney, but I'm not sure a law degree can be had without understanding that certain key legal terms have a Latin language origin.
Can you show me where there was any discussion of "absent a motion" before your back-pedaling flailing?
Oh, I'm sorry. I hadn't realized English wasn't your first language. I'll help you out. He said "the judge should ..." No mention of the defense making a motion of any sort.
Can you show me where there was any discussion of "absent a motion" before your back-pedaling flailing?
Oh, I'm sorry. I hadn't realized English wasn't your first language. I'll help you out. He said "the judge should ..." No mention of the defense making a motion of any sort.
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TFF. You love to flail. I love to watch it. Only one person seems to think you're making any sense, though.
Hang in there, though. Lawyering is not as funny until you try your hand at it. Then it's rather hilarious.
Can you show me where there was any discussion of "absent a motion" before your back-pedaling flailing?
Oh, I'm sorry. I hadn't realized English wasn't your first language. I'll help you out. He said "the judge should ..." No mention of the defense making a motion of any sort.
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TFF. You love to flail. I love to watch it. Only one person seems to think you're making any sense, though.
Hang in there, though. Lawyering is not as funny until you try your hand at it. Then it's rather hilarious.
Yes, all the folks who piled in on your side are well known at the Fire for their unbiased objectivity as between the two of us. By the way, in what year did all your "supporters" (whose legal opinions you seem so greatly to value) earn their law degrees?
There are always faux pas' which occur during a trial and one shouldn't read too much into it. As you know, there are always ebbs and flows and we don't really know how the jury perceived it. Remember, jurors are a bit intimidated and feeling their way around themselves. They'll get to know each other well over the next 10 days.
Focus on what comes from the witness stand, not the words of lawyers.
I think they have a serious, attentive jury who will fairly weigh the evidence.
Remind me some day to remind you of a closing argument I made in a rape trial where I spoke of a boy's vagina. It was my 2nd rape trial in a month after having received a acquittal in my first and I think they only acquitted in this trial because they weren't going to convict a guy because his lawyer was a dumb [bleep].
If I can't WOW them with some brilliance, I'm fine with baffling them with some bullschit.
Remind me some day to remind you of a closing argument I made in a rape trial where I spoke of a boy's vagina. It was my 2nd rape trial in a month after having received a acquittal in my first and I think they only acquitted in this trial because they weren't going to convict a guy because his lawyer was a dumb [bleep].
If I can't WOW them with some brilliance, I'm fine with baffling them with some bullschit.
we that in practice from you on here most every day
Remind me some day to remind you of a closing argument I made in a rape trial where I spoke of a boy's vagina. It was my 2nd rape trial in a month after having received a acquittal in my first and I think they only acquitted in this trial because they weren't going to convict a guy because his lawyer was a dumb [bleep].
If I can't WOW them with some brilliance, I'm fine with baffling them with some bullschit.
we that in practice from you on here most every day
==============
I guess that made sense to you. Now I guess you can understand why your thinking processes quickly kills threads. You'll learn someday, son.
From what I remember of the incident, Martin said something to Zimmerman to the affect, "you're going to die tonight". This was after he caught up with Zimmerman and prior to striking him in the face the first time.
When selecting jurors, don't lawyers on both side pick the jurors? I'm wondering if selecting all women to the jury was a good move on their part.
There is a jury pool, and both prosecution and defense get to exclude a certain number without explanation, and possibly others for cause. Then the first six to twelve (depending on the number for that jury) of those remaining after this process are the jury. Neither side can select anyone to be included; only to be excluded.
The Defense has to make its case beyond a shadow of a doubt and the facts as I've seen them wouldn't even allow a conviction on the lower burden of the preponderance of evidence, let alone the required burden.
If I'm walking down the street and some one wants to know who I am and what my business is I would probably tell them it's none of theirs. I think nearly any here would. I just don't see where it OK to arm yourself, leave your home and then your car to confront someone for no real valid reason except you don't like the way they look. Ask Zimmerman after it's over if it was worth it
valid reason I guess is the issue - Zimmerman lived in a neighborhood where crime was out of control, he was in charge of the neighborhood watch (with the blessing of the local police) and his valid reason was a kid that he wasn't familiar with as a resident was cutting across at night.
I've seen no solid proof that Zimmerman ever confronted Travon. If he did, it was because there had been a ton of break-ins in the area and Martin had no valid reason to be there that Zimmerman could discern. As a private citizen, Zimmerman is not bound by some Departmental Policy to not "profile". Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong in any of the scenarios I've seen presented, save for the possibility that he himself assaulted Martin and then pulled his gun and shot him when he started getting an ass whuppin'. This latter is unbelievable as the facts as known do not point to it. So it is possible but not probable. The Prosecution has to make its case beyond a shadow of a doubt and the facts as I've seen them wouldn't even allow a conviction on the lower burden of the preponderance of evidence, let alone the required burden.
The Judge should throw out the charges and declare Zimmerman innocent of all charge after the prosecution rests.
He has to wait for the verdict, but judges are empowered to do that in the direction of acquittal.
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Wrong again! Did someone ever cover Motions To Dismiss or Motions To Strike at the law school you say you attended?
Were you absent the day they taught "judgment non obstante veredicto, abbreviated JNOV, in law school?" No motion is needed. Conrad's scenario suggested an action on the part of the judge, absent motion.
I didn't say anything about motions. I expect that Zimmerman's attorney will ask the judge to find Zimmerman innocent after the persecution rests.
There was some interesting testimony yesterday that further demonstrates how corrupt and political this prosecution is. First, on cross examination, Wendy Dorival, who served as volunteer program coordinator for the Sanford Police Department, and a prosecution witness, testified that it was suspicious that a person � Trayvon Martin � was walking in the rain between houses without a particular purpose. There goes the "profiling" allegation, folks. Second, another prosecution witness, a 911 operator, testified that it is not within the purview of 911 operators to give orders to callers. So much for the allegation that Zimmerman failed to obey police orders.
These prosecutors are no better than that race-baiter POS Mike Nifong who brought bogus rape charges against those Duke lacrosse players.
I don't believe we will every know exactly what transpired between Zimmerman & Martin. What ever happens in this criminal trial is only part of what Zimmerman faces. The HOA & Zimmerman will be hit with a wrongful death lawsuit in civil court. There is a lesser standard for civil penalties & it appears likely a lot of money will change hands. I believe the HOA will take a huge hit with some sort of judgment against Zimmerman for anything he earns.
And you thought it was an abbreviation for an English term??? I'm surprised you're willing to admit that in an open forum. You could have PMed me to save the embarrassment. It would have remained between the two of us.
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