Friday evening, waiting for supper


Dennisinaz cutting the birthday cakes for Ed too many letters



Getting acquainted and reacquainted



Mike (Birdwatcher) and Toby


Jon's sausage and bacon Saturday morning

Kent and Keith getting the dutch ovens ready for biscuits


At last we're shooting!


Toby's got his ear plugs in and is ready to go...


The firing line and the peanut gallery


Sighting in (Dennis)


Blu (RIO7) helping Paige get on target

A lot of faces there I recognize. Sorry I missed you all.

Brenna getting some sage advice from David (Paladin)


Paul (CCCC) congratulates Brenna on her shooting


Talkin' shootin'


Patrick (tex_n_cal), Blu and Smoke, and Miles.


Patrick and Ed at the benches, David kibitzing

Man what a group. That had to be the biggest yet!
Ben thanks for sharing pics!

Yep!

More ladies!

More kids!

Several old friends who couldn't join us earlier!

(But no less sad that others couldn't be there, too!)

Leonard (labarr) at the bench. (Note the politically correct blue tape.)


Jeff (talus in az)


Paul just before "the incident".


Ron with his pristine Argentine Mauser


Brian making a little smoke with his Low Wall .45 Colt stoked with black powder.

More later--photobucket is wearing me down. Got to find another hosting site!

"The Incident"?...

A few more...


Paladin with his .500 Linebaugh.


Jon and Mic McPherson coaching Katie.


Dennis kicks off the big bore shoot with the .458 Lott (did I get that right?)


Blu banging the steel with his .405 Winchester.


Jeff tries the Lott.

Don't remember this young lady's name (old age problem), but she was bouncing the target balls around with that handgun.


Mike tackles the steel with his trusty 20 gauge shooting slugs.


None of those guys can hear worth a darn without ear muffs!


New friends: Smoke and Frank.


Best seat in the house!

I ain't introducing this one into the discussion--my skin's too thin!

Well somebody confess! Inquiring mind must know.

I saw a pic on facebook of young Mr. Graham sporting some Linebaugh induced body work. Is that the incident?

My thanks to RonInPhx for the invite to go with him to this fun event!! Lots of stories and info were shared on trip over and back, you are a wealth of knowledge Ron!! Sure was fun getting out of the Phoenix Valley and seeing how nice and green it was in Northeastern Arizona and New Mexico.





It was nice to meet you, Ben, and many others that all had great info and stories to share. You did a great job on the pictures and captions.

Speaking of sharing here are some of the pictures I took at the event;


Overall of the campgrounds from the entry road.


Shooting area.


CCCC's fine vintage Mack truck, front view. Thanks for sharing the history story behind how that truck came to reside with you.


Looks just as fine from the rear view.

Nope.

Hmmm the mystery deepens?

A few more that photobucket sent into the ozone during the bulk upload:


Rattler tries Ed's .458 Winchester.


Where'd that one hit?


David tutoring.


Where there's Blu, there's Smoke.


Tallying up.

Couple more:


About time to eat on a cool, rainy evening.


Doc Howell and Mic catching up.

that 458 was sweet, amazed i hit the gong with it offhand....the stock was made for a heavy kicking rifle cause it felt like it kicked less than my Guide Gun with light loads...

Ed gave me some damn fine training time with my 1911 aswell.....went from not knowing if it was me or the gun, to knowing it was me and getting it corrected.....just need to do alot of practice now....

only made it as far as Kieth's house today, storms followed us in so im just gonna head home in the morning...

Excellent photos, guys. Anybody get pictures of Dennis' multi-distance/multi-size/multi-color steel shoot?

Looks fun! Say, who built the benches? Super nice. Anyone get some blue prints?

Mic McPherson brought them. They are made by a company called Tower Stool Company in Faith, SD. Mic said that they are about $85 each plus about that much in shipping. I briefly checked out their web site for a current price, but didn't see one. They are called the Hench Bench and the stool comes with them.

Sure wish it was in the stars to attend. Makes me want to build an ultralight camping rig for the next one. We shall see. It would really do me proud to meet Ken H and a lot of others I read here. Seeing faces with handles really is good.

Glad a fine time was had and hope one day to be amongst you all.

Have a fine evening and do be safe
Patty

I'm not home yet, that will happen Friday evening.

I celebrated THE best birthday there. More fun, food, camaraderie, friends, shooting, and tale-telling than oughta be allowed.

I wish we had had a video camera running the whole time. Moments like the physics lesson that Jon got with David's .500 Linebaugh, the four person coffee-making dance trying to keep up with thirty five coffee drinkers, the kids getting to shoot all types and calibers of firearms, Dave's (Paladin) prowess with big-bore handguns at long range and the many coins he shot out of the air with his Mod 41 S&W (souvenirs for the kids ), and the goodbyes as folks were starting their way home.

Great memories!

Watching Dave patiently work with a couple of young kids and some young (but older) ladies, introducing them to handguns was a complete pleasure.

There were a number of folks there who were not very familiar with firearms, they came along with family. There were so many willing, patient people, volunteering firearms, ammo, and instruction that no one was left out.

The cooking was a team effort headed up by Kent, Dennis, Jon (the Bacon Master), Ben, Miles, Joy (Mark Schubert's lovely bride), Mathilda(sp?) (Birdwatcher's guardian angel, Brenna(sp?)(NMLady's/ElkhunternNM's daughter & pastry chef par excellence), and two other ladies I cannot recall their names. Other folks jumped in to help with cooking tasks, but that is the core. Forgive me if I have forgotten anyone, the weekend went by in a blur.

There were just too many instances of generosity, kindness, courtesy, and selflessness to count. Just call it the entire weekend.

The young kids that showed up (I have to differentiate between the "young" kids and those who merely acted that way )were a pleasure to be around. Frank (NMLady's/ElkhunterNM's son, Brenna(sp?), Paige, and Toby were icing on the cake for this gathering.

Competing in the matches, while they were informal, was still daunting. There are some VERY good shooters in this group! Mic McPherson won the rimfire PD shoot with a borrowed rifle that he had coached the owner on. I don't recall all of the first, second, and third place winners, but the matches were all close.

The informal shooting was even more fun. There were a couple of steel gongs at 200yds and a bunch of golf balls hanging from a line at 50yds, as well as an orange target ball that Blue brought, golf balls on the ground, and a surveyors flag at 100 yds that was hit five times in the plastic and twice (intentionally!) in the wire.

Add in all of the BS that was shot in and around the fire and campground, Patrick's .50-90 shooting BPCR, and Birdwatchers flintlock rifle and the air was positively blue.

I hope other folks choose to join in at the next one, they are worth the time and effort to go.

Thanks again to everyone!

Ed

Ed. Happy belated birthday. Sir.

Don't know if anyone was sporting a camera at the hidden steel challenge.

Mike (Birdwatcher) and Toby

i don't think i've ever seen mikes shoe laces tied.

Things were kinda winding down by the time we got back from the shop detour. Mic McPherson was offering the few folks left out there a chance to shoot his .17 Hornet rifle so I took him up on it. With his and Larry's input I was able to hit the orange target(277 yards??) three out of three shots. Never shot that small of a caliber rifle that far with that kind of success, sure was fun!! The small white target to the left and a bit further back looked to be a challenge. I'm curious as to who hit it and with what rifle??

WOW - looks like everyone had an awesome time - so many new faces

great to see so many people who can get together and have fun shooting - eating and B.S'n

fine example for the young ones - they will remember times like these for years to come.

how many candles on the cake or did it just say "to the old fart"
glad you were able to share your birthday Ed - hope you have many more.

how'd the cook's have time to do anything but cook - lol



I had good intentions of showing up but things changed - had personal things that required my attention
a land deal - we are now proud owners of an addition 80 acres. n/w of ashfork , az

hope to be at the next one - how about a list of names ?

Missed you, guy. Don't miss the next one!

One of these days I hope to attend!

Doc looks REALLY good in that picture! I think the get together must have done some good!

Jeff

Doc DOES look good there. He seemed to have had a blast.

You really should make one, Jeff. You will enjoy yourself immensely.

Ed

Thank you.
NO candles, there wasn't enough wax in NM to make that many. They all stood around and sang Happy Birthday, then continued on with the verbal abuse, as usual. Most of it led by curdog4570 & eh76.
All of it totally unwarranted since I was a perfect gentleman all weekend, being my usual mild mannered, sensitive, and caring self.

Ed

Found a few more photos worth sharing...


David ringing the steel at 125 yds!


Jeff falling in love with Mic's 4 1/2 lb Marlin .44 Mag.


Mike trying out one of those newfangled cartridge rifles--a Hepburn in .38-55.


Waiting for more fresh coffee on a cool Sunday morning.


Visiting with new Campfire friends from New Hampshire: BogTrotter (standing right) and his better half (standing left).


Kent braving a steamy skillet on a cool high country Sunday morning!

Man, that last shot, Kent doing his kitchen Magic, is a CLASSIC, Ben !

GTC

I see Blue found out I couldn't come and decided it was safe to bring my Hepburn.

We had 42 that we counted, hope we didn't miss someone in the tally.

Keith cooked the fish and it was great, Gene brought the fish and a fryer that I wish was mine. Jon and Katie were the breakfast meat cookers, David the gravey. Mathilda, Joy made eggs and pretty much everything else. Ed, Ben tried to keep coffee ahead, pretty much an entire can each morning. Brenna, Frank, Brian pitched in as did others.

My victory was 70 dutch oven biscuits that actually worked... I should'a took a picture... lol.

Kent

"Ken," one of the guys said to me, "I'd like to ask you a question, and I don't want you to answer it 'til you've thought it over with an open mind. What do you think of having one of these shindigs in east Texas?"

"I don't have to think it over," I said, "and I have a very closed mind about it. I'm all for it. Do it!"

Later, we talked about whether such a get-together ought to supplement or to replace the Quemado event.

IMHO, the more such events the better � IOW, BOTH the east Texas event AND the Quemado event PLUS as many more as y'all can gin-up. There are already some other such gatherings � the hog hunt, the Padre Island fishing, the western Washington romp, one in Colorado, � Great ideas all.

One wonderful aspect of all these events is usually the absence of the on-line guys with active dual anuses. Seems to me that that one benefit alone is enough to encourage more and more in-person meet-ups and gatherings of Campfire compa�eros.

There'll always be those who yearn to get together with such a fine crowd but for one reason or another just can't do it. A such event in east Texas, for example, would draw many of the Quemado bunch PLUS a good number for whom New Mexico is just too far away for a week-end romp, no matter how good the fellowship may be.

A big crowd is nice, but by no means is it "better" than a small to medium group. The Sierra-Vista-Quemado tradition started with six to eight Campfire guys getting together at a restaurant one afternoon in or near Phoenix in (IIRC) 2010.

Let the good times roll! And roll! And roll! And roll! And �

My bucket list doesn't consist of activities, just folks I wish to meet sometime... my list got shorter and those individuals moved to the... will meet again list.

Thanks...

Kent

Amen brother.....and


You're a good cook Alice!

Looks like a wonderful time was had by all.

I wish I could have made it.

Next year.....

Dave

Just time the E Texas shindig in decent temps.

I'd love to make more of them, unfortunately the wife and I are hung up on Alaska and our measly 2 weeks of vacation goes there almost every year now. Which ain't a bad thing either.

Maybe in the next few years as we accrue a few extra days....

We could make E Texas only a 4-6 hour drive depending on where.

Still REALLY want to make Quemado though. THats just like God's country there.

You guys are the best! Kent thanks for recommending Williams as a stopover, that's where we are now. Flyover the Canyon this morning. Doc howell, a special thanks for signing my book and the entertainment. I plan to borrow some of your jokes, but I don't know if I'll be able to tell them as well! All the best to everyone!

Bog - don't forget - don't eat in Williams.

And DON'T drink the WATER.

I've never had an issue there, my buddy had an elk tag last sept and we stayed in Williams eating out every meal. Rod's steak house still had excellent prime rib and ribeyes.

I do know if I have a bad experience somewhere it sticks with me forever, so I understand.

Kent

Thanks everyone for a great weekend. We pulled into Benson about 7:30 Sunday evening. Had a good time and met some great people. Trip was perfect both ways.

Mark, glad to hear your shoulder wasn't as bad as you thought. Hoping for a quick recovery.

Mark

Kent, you are a good guy, even for defending Williams when it doesn't need it. That "don't eat there" was just a joke left over from some funny talk during the weekend.

Hey PW that Mack is a knockout. I'd love it if you could share pic of the motor sometime.

YES !

+1

GTC

Tom and Greg - I will do that. Am needing to put the Mack back into its usual resting place in G3 - will try to remember to put up the butterfly and take a pic or two of the Cummins.

I have to offer up an apology, to all. I got busy and forgot I had a camera with me and therefore took no pictures of the whole weekend. miles

I want to know if Keith broke his word and traveled through Colorado.
Long way around otherwise.

Sounds like they got to home just about when I would have expected, if he went I-25 all the way...

Never said I wouldn't travel through Yep but I filled up in Cheyenne, WY and Raton, NM

I did have a momentary mental lapse and stop in Colo Springs on way back and left a few pennies....for a soda and 10 gals of fuel.


Sounds like the folks are revolting against the tyranny there though.....there is hope!

Sheridan just texted me he arrived home!

EH you'll have to let me know how you like that Zaya. LIke I mentioned earlier it becoming a favorite sipping rum for me.

Looks like a blast.

Next one should be in Texas in March.. Graduation date from Tech school..

I can show you guys how to shoot.

We shoot guns not our mouths...


Just busting your balls man

Modest aren't you.

A+ thread, gents.

You should have been there................................putz

Yeah!

Next year, we'll have somebody chloroform you in Virginia, and when you wake-up out here, you'll know right-off thatcha ain't in Virginia � but you'll feel right at home.

Ken.....I like the way you think!

Clearly, me and Ben were photographing the same event



...but sometimes he took the time to shoot....



What is really unusual about this pic is that there is no labrador retriever visible anywhere in the photo



One of the coolest things about these gatherings; expertise is freely shared....



Ed giving it a go.... (I'm terrible with names, especially where most of have a name AND a handle, so apologies if I get any wrong)....



Birdwatcher

That picture of Ben [Mudhen] is just as he is squeezing off the winning shot in the centerfire Pdog one shot contest.

WITH MY RIFLE!

A word to the wise; never, EVER, get in a shooting match with a guy who can hit quarters that he threw in the air....

(and whoever was holding those coins likely was shooting a flintlock earlier in the day)



For example, this photo COULD be interpreted as Paladin winning a centerfire match with a .22 pistol while Ed complains to the ref....



...and this MIGHT be the same pistolero demonstrating the art of hitting a target without actually looking at it....



But I'm pretty sure this was when Paladin (again, apologies for my difficulty remembering names) took Gene's .41 mag Tracker and made the steel plates sing at 100+ yards



All in all a level of shooting skill that one reads about but rarely gets to witness

Birdwatcher

"Ahem".... a good craftsman never takes credit for his tools (or something like that)

And speaking of prairie dogs, here's Miles judging the targets...



One of the funnier moments came during the prairie dog match when the officiating presence said "Name your target", to which the shooter replied "George?" (or something like that)

I had thought that only young guys actually sat on the ground to shoot, on account of they can get up again afterwards....



But here I am proven somewhat wrong....



I have always liked those "Buffalo Classic" H&R's in .45-70. If they didn't actually make 'em back then, well heck they should have.

Birdwatcher

great thread born from what looks to be a great time!

kudos to you all, looks like a hoot!

Some downrange pics. I believe Patrick in this one is shooting the rimfire match (??)



And this gentleman from Arizona (my name problem again), Dennis' buddy, shooting that .405 cannon....



Seen here shooting a centerfire match...



The targets can be seen way back in the trees.

Birdwatcher

For our own part we took the opportunity to field-test some of our re-enacting gear, being new to the pastime (thanks for the photo Ben).

For example, the small iron brazier we brung proved to be a disappointment, adequate for morning coffee but not for a serious bout of cooking.



That's a linen hunting frock, early Nineteenth Century correct, with a wool fingerwoven sash. The color of course is along the lines of camo as we imagine these guys to have been, but there's evidence that bright colors like red and white were actually favored back then. I bought the frock used from the guy who made it.

One thing this reenacting thing has taught me is that linen has it all over cotton; costs three times as much but its cooler in the heat, warmer in the cold, and it withstands wear better too.

The tin-lined copper cup came from Crazy Crow (made for them by Pakistan's finest). Plain ol' tin would have been more correct, but copper adds a touch of class and 32oz is hard to beat. I mean, at gatherings like this it is IMPORTANT to have the largest coffee cup in camp

The view of camp from our tent....



And our tent.... a 12' x 15' Sherwin-Williams 10oz canvas painter's drop cloth, washed and dried hot to shrink the weave denser, and dyed off-white by boiling it with old pecan husks.



Actually linen is the hot ticket for purists, and superior to cotton in this application as well. But it costs an arm and a leg (used to be commoner and cheaper than cotton in the US until the 1830's at least, but nowadays most of it comes from Eastern Europe).

Cotton IS appropriate for early Texas, grown in Mexico and commonly used for clothing and the tarps covering the carretas. A 10oz cotton drop cloth approximates in density original fabric from back then, and is both more period correct AND much cheaper than the various sunforger treated canvas period tents available.

Only problem is rain. Folks got wet a lot back then, just the way it was. Anyhoo the secret seems to be to pitch with a steep roof angle to help the water run off, based on period illustrations and paintings this was commonly down back then too.

It did rain during the night, fairly heavy at times, but the tent came through with flying colors. It did get wet and sag some....



But preserved an ample dry footprint nevertheless....




It kept us dry. Primitive I know but that's the point ennit?

Seriously, I'm finding that the artifacts of these old times bring a sort of tactile joy in use, and moving towards the simpler technology of an earlier time adds a whole nother level of relaxation to one's free time.

Birdwatcher

Very cool, BW! You might give this a try. Used the Diamond for several years on "trek in" events.

http://www.wizzywigweb.com/longshot/diamond.htm

was alot of fun.....i shot Ed's(formerly Ken Howell's) 458, Paladin's 500 Linebaugh(light loads only though ), tex n cal's 45-90 highwall and 300 Blackout(both awesome) and bccolorados 45 colt low wall(smoked steel with the first shot after Ed got it sighted in )

but the best was the talking with everyone and Ed's informal class for me and several others on shooting our handguns.....going to practice and then track down Ed for another class

So... What was "The Incident" ?
I read the entire post and either missed it or it wasn't mentioned.
I really like these get togethers. The one in Raton was very cool and seems like a very long time ago.

a Remington may or may not have gone off when the safety was taken off with no one touching the trigger.......and there may or may not have been alot of witnesses to the whole thing start to finish but this can be neither confirmed nor denied

Yes, no doubt you can show the gang some stuff - and some might even stop shooting, talking and eating long enought to watch your demo - but a fellow shouldn't count on that too much if he is self-impressed. This year most of the "showing" was really good - well taught by sharing type guys who also were very good with the young 'uns. I really enjoyed seeing that.

I hope that you can join the gathering sometime. The participants experience A LOT of shooting, a wide variety of firearms, and much enjoyment.

correct, that was me with the Ruger 77/22...which is a very accurate .22, just not sighted in for RWS rifle match ammo I would have been smarter to have just brought the Rem subsonic ammo, that was putting a hurt on coons last year.

What's the big deal? My Springfield A3-03 (280 Ackley) will go off if you take the safety off after pulling the trigger when the safety is on. It'll learn you to lift the bolt after pulling the trigger when it's on safe.
It sure gets your attention the first time it happens.

not to mention cooking...

Minor correction, that's Brian shooting my High Wall .45-90. It was nice that a few people got to shoot it.

Have been quite reluctant to get into this issue on this thread for a number of reasons, but your question and comments seem to have taken it in a misleading direction. Misleading cannot be let stand in a serious circumstance. The big deal? -- your stated scenario is NOT what occurred.

That trigger was never touched once the pin was cocked - neither before nor after the safety was engaged. The involved shooter rarely, if ever, engages the safety on any rifle. His setup and concentration at the bench were interrupted by a self-appointed "helper" (unwanted) who walked in and got right down behind the scope eyepiece.

The shooter, being quite surprised and not certain what the "helper" intended to do, engaged the safety - for reasons of safety. Fortunately, the "helper" did not touch the rifle and eventually backed away. Then, while getting ready ready to aim, the shooter simply disengaged the safety. "BANG"

A number of very good and experienced riflemen watched that occur - so, yeah, a real attention-getter. To me, that malfunction was a pretty big deal. How about for you, BrotherBart?

Supplement here: I did not witness the event, but was well-advised that during the same day at the gathering a different rifle of the same manufacture/model fired spontaneously - no trigger touch - when the shooter simply closed the bolt. Another attention-getter.

I watched the second event occur and can confirm that it did indeed fire simply upon closing the bolt. Damn Remingtons!

That is Jeff shooting my 458 Lott; one of only two of you chickens who would shoot it, the other being the wild man, Jon. I put about 30 rounds through it in 15 minutes and it did give me a headache. The Hornady DGX shot much better than the cast bullet load. Looks like I need a different mould.

Ooohhh

Then I would lose.

I would like to attend a get together one day.

I need to learn how to shoot from you guys, my accuracy could use help. In case you missed it I was kidding about teaching you guys how to shoot..

The Springfield has taught me to open the bolt after pulling the trigger while on safe with every bolt gun I've climbed behind.
As for my " no big deal" comment. If you don't like it,too bad. What's really strange is the fact that the incident was probably intended to be kept in Quemada. Almost ironic considering your last post.

By careful intent, the Remington 700 trigger on my single-shot custom Nesika .220 Howell does NOT have a safety on it.

The "safety" is the shooter, who doesn't chamber a round or close the bolt until the rifle is pointed at his selected target and he's about to shoot.

Howell's Law of Certainties � Whatever can not possibly go wrong will go wrong sooner or later. (Murphy was a Pollyanna.)

Let some uninvited know-it-all butt-in with unsolicited "advice" just then, and the bolt comes open. (Or upon any other interruption.)

BB, it's really good that you you operate your Springfield and other bolt firearms safely. And, it's not at all a matter of what I do or do not like about your "big deal" question - your attitude seems to render that moot. It's lost like a small turd in high weeds.

Yes, it had been intended that specifics of the malfunction discharge events and those among whom it happened be kept to those in attendance. I did not want any of that to be a focal point about the gathering or in this thread - but not worth keeping quiet to the point of enabling half-baked misinformation to float. Thus, my reply to you.

I have addressed the product problems at what I see as the appropriate place.

At one Winchester seminar for outdoor writers years ago, a well known writer shot another fellow in the foot � and then urged the other fellow to sue Winchester.

That "incident" wasn't supposed to get-out, but it did � at least to other writers and industry people who weren't there at the time of the "accident."

Sure was a pleasure shooting your 45-90. Seeing the pictures puts a grin back on my mug. Thanks for the opportunity.

Winnie - I like your enthusiasm, and I was kidding as well. I think you would find these gatherings rewarding and hope that you can join in. If you are in CentCal, probably you are not as distant as some of our guys from TX and AR.

Dennis, I would LOVE to try your .458 Lott (next time?) - but probably not every 30 seconds for 15 minutes. However, I would be grateful to shoot for a group. Why don't we just see that you get some DGX (weight?) instead of your fooling with another mould that also may be not quite right?

Do you use that rig to pull a travel trailer?

Would love to see more pics and read the story of acquisition.

Very often, cast bullets shoot better straight from the mould (SFM) � lubricated, of course, but not sized. Consider giving that a try before you give-up on your mould.

Make yourself what Ideal used to call a "Kake Kutter" � bore the end out of a fired but unsized .45-70 case. (When I made mine years ago, I left the head of the .45-70 case intact and drilled it for a thumb-operated plunger to expel each bullet out the mouth. With the old Lyman "Kake Kutter," the procedure was to push each bullet on through with the next ones that you cut out of the lube. I also "over-chamfered" the mouth of the case inside and outside to give it a cutting edge.)

Stand your bullets base-down in a cake pan, pour melted lube around 'em deep enough to fill the grooves, let it harden, then "cookie-cut" the bullets out of the lube cake, load 'em, and shoot 'em.

Whether it's all worth the extra trouble, only you can decide. Often, it is.

Thanks for the correction.

I woulda shot it but did not realize it was up for grabs. Perhaps for the same reason I thought I heard ".405" (whatever that would be) Along those same lines, I'm thinking the most frequently repeated phrase at a Campfire gathering might be... "What?"

Say, ain't you the same guy what knocked over that ram silhouette at 200 yards with that .50 cal flinter longrifle?

Birdwatcher

Not seeing any conspiracy here, maybe more along the lines of not blowing anything out of proportion without being sure of all the facts.

The first question would be had either of those two rifles done anything like that before, which seems unlikely given that both shooters were apparently surprised when it happened.

And the important thing of course is that, thanks to the basic rules of gun handling, that sort of thing could have happened all day without anyone getting hurt.

I will say that this was a big event, with lots of people, in a new setting for most everyone. It has been my experience that unintended things are more likely to happen in that sort of circumstance.

The other important thing for everyone to recall is that this whole thing was an unbelievably good time. I only drove 900 miles one way to spend an evening, a day and a morning there but some people drove nearly twice that far.

I ain't heard a one of us say it weren't worth it, rather everyone has been saying "When can we do this again?"

Birdwatcher

Looks like a great time and some fun shooting!

CCCC- that is a beautiful truck! Count me in as looking forward to more pics and stories regarding same. It deserves a thread of its own!

As to AD's and Remingtons....I've seen it first hand.

Thanks for the link

FWIW the diamond set-up has been catching some flack from purists of late as being a re-enactorism i.e. not actually done back then. Though for my part I cannot quibble as they did not use 2x2's sawn into 4ft lengths to hold their tents up either



Most of what we have gotten to do are reenactments and living history where the public is invited to mingle at least part of the time. To that end we are looking to work up an arrangement that allows us to hide stuff out of sight if needed.

Also, given the crowded settings at such things, I am looking to work up a setup that uses as few staked ropes as possible, with a free-standing structure being the ideal. On top of all that it also has to fit into the back of an economy sedan.

Add to that we want to be able to walk the whole thing in on our backs (as opposed to backing a pickup truck to one's spot which is the most common procedure at these things) AND look reasonably period-correct while doing it.

To that end I'm thinking cedar poles instead of 2x2's would work, and going to a tripod arrangement at each end rather than the A-frame type deal in the pic might allow us to skip staked guy lines entirely.

Birdwatcher

Mike; Three sotol stalks bound together would make a good walking staff.

Make one for Ms. Matilda as well and you have a couple tripods for your tent once you arrive at your destination.

Great idea

Ya know Gene, I'm about ready to concede that you might have a special knowledge of Texas after all......

and with Mini Mk X's and any other rifle where something gets loose or out of adjustment........

I didn't need to see Mike's canvas outfit... been researching and formulating design ideas for a tripod structure. I didn't know that cotton like wood swells naturally when wet to keep water out.

Cool stuff Mike.

Kent

Could very well be. A 700 is the only gun I have ever owned that released the firing pin when the safety was taken off.

Kinda startling.

Sunforger canvas has been on the market for several years. It's fibers swelling quickly when wet was one of it's marketable attributes. I have a Wall made from the stuff. Haven't been wet yet!

The cast bullets I shot this weekend were purchased. They were LBT style and don't feed very good either but they were the ONLY thing available. I have since purchased lead pot, press, dies,lube and ready to experiment.

eh76, I agree with your "loose or out of adjustment" comment and other rifles. However, neither was the cause of the safety event this time. Inspection on the bench that evening showed the mechanism to be clean as a whistle with no looseness or undue tolerances, and factory setting untouched. Just one more example of the need for muzzle control.

Birdwatcher - that one had never before done such a thing. I don't know whether or not the "bolt-close-fire" rifle had ever done so before.

I'm just glad those didn't cause secondary problems, and am yet better informed.

The intent was to not open up this particular can of worms. If you look at the sticky, it takes a life of its own. miles

+++++ regarding Miles comment ... and, I'm done with it here. Too much already.

Let's focus on the gathering and the great folks there.

Word.

PW I really DO think that Mack of yours needs a thread all on its own.

I am a sucker for old big rigs. My grandfather owned a couple of full service garage/gas stations back in upstate NY, and also had a wrecker service. He was the first Firestone tire dealer in upstate NY. At the high point I think he had 12 big GMC C.O.E. wreckers.
He was down to one station by the time I was born, and the wrecker service was gone. He still kept one of the trucks and another was converted to a dump truck for my Dad's business. I used to love crawling around playing in those things.

The swapping of stuff you have extra for stuff you need is just a bonus to the fellowship enjoyed by all.

With reloading components being in short supply, it was especially helpful this year. I've now got enough 120 gr. NP's to last me a few more seasons, and I got rid of stuff that I was never gonna use, but too valuable to throw away.

Next year I shall join this parade! Looks like a grand group.

OK, for Tom, Mooner, iron and guys interested in the old Mack, I will get together the info and some other good photos and post it up. I am not interested in wide attention or a flood of comment, but very much appreciate your interest. So, I may just make it a PM thread for you and anyone else who asks to be included.

It's a little busy here and through the weekend - will try to get it going eary next week. Here's a teaser or two taken after a 500+ mile run on the day I drove it in here - bug splats and all:

Thanks PW I appreciate it. I'll be looking forward to it whenever you have the time.

Excellent point!

Let's pray for the coming of that blessed time when distant Campfarts who don't know the facts of a situation keep their ignorance-ridden and judgemental opinions to themselves.

I'd like to be included on the PM thread. I shared the pictures I took of the Mack (page two/#7976036 of this thread) with my 94 year old father-in-law last night. He's a real automotive enthusiast and has a real clean 1941 Chevy business coupe sitting in the garage. He said those were the best pictures of all that I'd taken and wanted to see more and know more about the truck!!

He really enjoyed seeing Mike/Bird Watcher's ornate flinter rifle. However I had to explain to him that it was a re-pro but that likely they did make them that ornate back in the day.

He also enjoyed the closeup pictures I took of Blu's awesome vintage Hepburn. He just loves vintage items that were made with great design and craftsmanship, as do I.

Dittos. At your convenience. PM thread is fine with me.

Thanks 4C! Lookin' forward to it.

Well, this thread sure veered right off the cliff in a hurry, didn't it?

So who won the various "shoots"? Any details on how those went?
Dennis it looks like you out did yourself getting that together.

Tom - I'm forgettin' most details, but I know that Ben (mudhen) won the centerfire PD shoot at 150 yards - maybe with a borrowed rifle. Blue (rio7) won the Big Bore shoot on steel - that was 150 yards, too, I think.

The rimfire PD shoot at 75 yards was first and so much has happened since then that I forget who won.

Dennis can tell you who won that open shoot (no bench) across the way where he spent hours (with some nice help) setting up all of those different sized steels at differing distances. That was a special deal. By the time I got time to be over there the formal shoot had ended. I was down to one appropriate rifle (22/250) and two rounds, so I hit 2 steels (easier ones) just to see what it was all about. Fun stuff.

Well, life can be unpredictable. But, if we are going to veer for a minute, at least it's about old trucks - that's not a bad veer.

finally found a place to log on and read all the comments,happy everyone got home ok,glad to hear marks shoulder wasnt as bad as expected,i spent a couple of days in las vegas,nev. and cleaned up and organized all my stuff, and was suprised to find i didnt shoot much, 5 rounds of .405,i shot 3 rds of 38-55 others shot 18 rds of 38-55 out of the hepburn i shot 7 rds of .308 at dennis's range.gave the .22 shooters a brick of .22, dont know why but never got a chance to shoot any of 4 pistols i brought, david, fixed my .45 kimber for me, after ed, checked it out. i did shoot 7 rds of .204 at warm up for p-dog shoot then my r-15 went tits up, and a whole group of people jumped in and fixed it. but i didnt get to shoot it.but i feel like i spent a week at the range, my ears are still ringing, every time i took my muffs off so i could talk to someone a cannon would go off. all that said, i had a hell of a good time!met some great people and watched some great shooting, and everyone was helping each other, and i saw a lot of smileing faces. what a great time, thanks to everyone.rio7

I did use a borrowed rifle, a stainless synthetic Ruger Hawkeye chambered in .204 Ruger that lives with Gene (curdog 4570). Mic McPherson spotted for me and we got the rifle zeroed with the expenditure of only three rounds.

Thanks, again, Gene! Loved the little rifle and I have one on my wish list, now.

Congratulations Ben!
That is cool stuff!

If it's PM, I want in.

GTC

Brother Dan, it'll be great to see you again!

Kent

I think that it was Mic, then Mudhen and then Dennis, but I am not positive about that. miles

Owned and shot 700's for 40+ years...only guns I have had do that were not 700's

I was 3rd with a 10/22 takedown

That was a neat rifle--regardless!

My 700 did it twice both times on an empty chamber. I will only hunt with it with an empty chamber even though I have changed the trigger.

My ultra-fancy custom single-shot Nesika .220 Howell has a Remington 700 trigger with the Remington safety removed (by careful intent).

The shooter is the "safety." No round goes into the chamber (or the bolt closed) until the rifle is pointed at the intended target and the shooter is about to shoot. (It's a varmint rifle, so � )

i was sitting here reading this about the remington, and i got to thinking about the remington 660 in 350rem mag i have been working up. One of the first things i found out after buying the rifle was remington had a recall years ago because of it firing while the safety was moved. I replaced the whole fire control group with a timney. Then i got to thinking that i have been firing remingtons since at least since the 70's and have never had this happen. Then I got to thinking of Dr. Howell's remarks. Come to think of it I have never used the safety on any of them, prefering to leave the chamber empty until ready to fire. If i am not ready to fire, the chamber is emptied. I guess that is one way to avoid the problem. And come to think of it, it's the same thing on other rifles too.

Kent, I was simply blown away by the amount of prep time and probable expense yourself and others put into this event. Rolling in late and leaving early as we did, me and the missus had very little to do but enjoy the gathering. I hope to get to help more next year.

On the reenacting thing, to give some background I would say it really took off in the 70's with the Jeremiah Johnson generation. Over the years though research has steadily improved such that what was common thirty and forty years ago would be considered hopelessly "farb" today. The rise of the internet and the free exchange of information has accelerated this process by a quantum leap.

Specific to tents, somehow I have lost and cannot find again a really good link to a War Department report from the 1840's. What had been happening in prior decades was that cotton production had been taking off in the South, and cloth manufacturing taking off in New England, such that by then cotton duck had become cheaper than linen.

The report evaluated the performance of cotton as tentage and wagon tarps and found that while cheaper and lighter, cotton rotted more easily, shrank and swelled excessively, and wasn't as strong. The point of this being that, by 1840, cotton duck was still a new thing. During the decades of the Santa Fe trail, as best I can determine American wagons were hauling thousands of pounds of printed cotton fabric for trade in New Mexico, but were using linen tarps to cover those wagons.

Prior to 1840 linen tents and tarps are far more correct. Most everybody knows this nowadays, and Panther Primitives will even make you a linen tent or tarp at a considerable premium when they can get the fabric, but cotton is still an accepted re-enactorism. As stated earlier, cotton is a bit more period-correct in Texas because the Mexicans had long been using it.

Anyhow, the last word in period correctness is probably one of these; a simple, hand-sewn linen tent. You can park this ANYWHERE and out-cool just about everyone, but IIRC, the materials alone cost nearly $400. It does give a pretty good idea of what common tents back then actually looked like all the way through the Fur Trade era.

http://frontierfolk.net/phpBB/viewt...mp;p=390653&hilit=linen+tent#p390653



A lot easier in time and trouble just to go with a plain old cotton painter's tarp.

Here's a link to a thread I posted about my tent set-up over on a muzzleloading board...

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/281937/


...and a good link a guy provided on that thread specifically on pitching 12'x15' tarps as tents using just one or two poles

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/f...post/556124/hl/tent/fromsearch/1/#556124

If the above links don't work (the guy who runs that forum is funny about that) google on this and it will bring them right up.....

Sherwyn-Williams tarp in action

Birdwatcher

Your wife was invaluable cooking, tell her thank you again.

The setup in your second link with the wood poles were close to my idea using aspen poles.

Kent

At the other end of the continuum was the pair of Ohio hunters whom I guided for elk high in the Sapphires.

Long ago, old-time outdoorsmen water-proofed cotton tents and tarps with paraffin dissolved in naphtha ("white gas").

One of these hunters had one of those abominable old Army air-tight nylon tents with the entrance and vent tubes, and he'd soaked it in the paraffin-naphtha solution. (And overdid that to boot, I thought.) It was heavy, stiff, and cold. Weighed a ton and was Chinese torture to set-up. But my cozy lean-to was too "primitive" for them.

I slept under a huge tarp lean-to, on two bales of straw spread-out on the ground, with a home-made drum stove out in front of it. Very good night in sub-zero cold!

Their breaths condensed on the walls of that nylon-paraffin abomination, and they spent a night of self-inflicted torture in a puddle that soaked their sleeping bags. Took 'em quite a while to get warm the next morning. Sopping-wet down doesn't retain body heat very well!

This was my third 'Fire gathering and it was, again, great. It's just a treat to hang out and shoot with so many kindred spirits. Many thanks to Dennis, Kent and, of course, Paul.

If any of you folks are on the fence about going to one of these shindigs, do it. It will be one of the most fun weekends you've had lately.

Diesel heads -- if you like the outside of that semi, you should have seen the inside --- E-Mack-U-Let.

Did I mention the hundred head of elk Dennis and I saw the morning we set up the range? It was Shooters Beware as the competitors tried to dodge piles ...

Again, I love to see the pix and be able to associate handles with them. Thanks from the sideliners of this years fest. I do hope someday to make it. I will continue to read this thread.

Be safe
Patty

Patty - this gang would be pleased to meet you.

Patty, look ahead to the development (I hope!) of a similar shindig in east Texas. Many of the same crowd would most assuredly be there, plus a few good sorts from the East who just can't (for one nasty reason or another) make it this far from home for just a week-end.

Sooo true what Mike/Birdwatcher summarized above about Dave/Paladin's shooting skills!! His skill was certainly entertaining....... guess I'm just a big kid at heart as I got some great souvenirs!! The four quarters that Mike/Birdwatcher posted a picture of were ones that I'd watched David shoot out of the air. Unfortunately I lost the quarter with the good edge hit in the packing up/unpacking process.....here are some close up pictures of the three remaining quarters;

The best centered hit(actually this quarter was thrown and hit twice as there is a nick hit on the edge);



Comparison front and back;







Dave was getting a lot of practice shooting the quarters and ask if I had a dime as he was going to try shooting that also. A dime is about 3/4 the size of a quarter so that definitely upped the challenge/skill level!! In his attempts to hit the dime he got one really good hit that just launched way way up and was never found when it came back down........a number of us observers went out searching for it but to no avail. On Sunday morning, after a good night's rain, I went back out to that shooting area determined to find that damn dime!! I spent a fair amount of time doing the "needle in the haystack" or "dime in a forest of pine needles" search. Walked a grid pattern over quite a bit of the area out there. Finally as I was close to giving up I saw a glint from the early morning sun and discovered the missing dime!! I was thrilled to find it and also amazed at how the dime had shrapnel-ed out from the impact. I showed it to Dave and he'd never seen one do that before and that the well hit ones that launch out that high usually had a good hole in them. . I'd have loved to have had a dime with the hole as perfect as the first quarter pictured however just finding this one made my day!!





Here is a picture of four items for size comparison.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/XPLRN/2013/Quemato%202013/IMG_0417_zps4650d5ad.jpg[/img]

1. Golf ball = 1.675" in diameter (there was a string of them hung up @ the shooting area IIRC).

2. Quarter = .953" diameter.

3. Dime = .704" diameter.

4. .22 cartridge @ rim = .271" diameter.

In talking with Dave he mentioned that he used to throw .22 cartridges into the air and shoot the base of the cartridge which would provide positive proof of the hit thru detonation. Yes, I was amazed at the skill involved to acquire and hit something the size of a quarter/dime/.22 cartridge falling at the speed of gravity. Dave mentioned he'd spent 3+ decades acquiring that skill level but doesn't really do it much any more and that this was the most coin shooting he'd done in the past year or more.

That is pretty amazing shooting. Wish I had been there to see that.

Don't know if you saw him shoot the golf ball thrown in the air using my 41 mag Tracker. That thing must have gone a hundred feet at least, straight up.

It has a very small hole all the way thru it. David saiod the old golf balls would "explode", but the newer ones hold together.

Does anyone know who was responsible for the tamales Sat. nite? Damn, they were good.

Pretty dang cool!

Nope, didn't get to see that shot, sure wish I would have!! Do you still have that golf ball as a memento of what your .41 is capable of!!???

Of course, as well as the two quarters he shot for my Grandkids. One in front of the face and the other behind the head so they could tell them apart.

Here is the golf ball:



He hit it off center with his first shot resulting in the groove you see. Next shot he hit it dead on.

Now............ about them tamales?

David brought the tamales from El Paso as well as shot the quarters.

Someone asked... who brought the fish?... Gene... well who brought the fryer?... Gene... well who smoked the pipe?... Gene... well who lost their two lower teeth at the rodeo? Gene...

Seems you were 4 of the 42 folks just by yourself...

Kent

Well, I had about forgotten what GOOD tamales taste like.

And... lest someone think I claim cowboy status, I lost the front teeth at the rodeo DANCE, not the rodeo.

I still can't get over what a good job you and Keith did cooking them fish. Given your locations, you ain't S'POSED to be that good.

Did I tell you that almost all the catfish came from ONE fish? And I didn't bring all of it.

We've been known to catch a fish or two... LOL

That flathead was muy bien amigo... muy bien...

I dig that ironing board fillet station. That looks dang handy.

We've gang filleted 300 crappie from one morning fishing and 6 boats at fish camp... an ironing board is just the right height to not have to stoop and get a backache... something we learned years ago.

Kent

Anyway, Keith cooked the fish and gets all the kudos.

Kent

Yeah that is slick. Not to mention that it will fold down super flat.
Guess who might be gluing some laminate on his ironing board this weekend?...

A few days before I left for Quemado this time a neighbor brought over some fileted crappie. I ate two meals out of them and had quite a few left so I tried something new. I laid the filets out on a cookie sheet covered with plastic wrap, and froze them for a while and then dipped them in nearly freezing water. That water froze immediately and I put them on another cookie sheet until the ice was dry, then put them in a freezer bag. It turned out looking like bought frozen catfish and I will be able to take out as many frozen filets as I need without any hassle. I won't know until later how they keep. Probably won't last too long anyway. miles

Miles, here's my normal recipe at home...

Soak in buttermilk no longer than one hour, dry on paper towel then dip in thin pancake batter, roll in bread crumbs, cracker, chips, whatever... deep fry.

Kent

I'm interested in hearing how it works out. Seems to me that crappie lose their flavor in the freezer quicker than any other fish I catch.

I believe it does help to freeze 'em as soon as you've cleaned them, rather than keeping in the 'fridge a day or two.

A friend who raised catfish told me that in the processing, the fish goes from alive and wiggling to being a pair of frozen filets in less than 3 minutes.

I expect that this will not be a good test because they will not be in the freezer long enough. miles

Thanks for the golf ball picture and explanation. Sorta the same deal as the center hit quarter, one light edge hit before the dead on shot!!

Just a note to thank everyone for the good times and kind words, and a special thanks to Kent for keeping camp and cooking.

Don't have a good connection at the moment, so will try to post more later in response/reply to previous posts.

Thanks again everyone for the hospitality and generosity.

David

[quote=mudhen]
Don't remember this young lady's name (old age problem), but she was bouncing the target balls around with that handgun.

This is Kristy.

kristy, would shoot all day and never take a break, if she could. she had miles, as a loader and as fast as miles, got one gun loaded she handed him an empty gun to load. she was still shooting sunday morning after most people had left.rio7

MAN! I would give my eyeteeth (if I still had em) to be able to make one of them there shindigs. Good on Y'all for making it happen.

Jever wonder, y'old fart, why we've never letcha come out to one of 'em?

Terry,

My bride and I are trying to figure out dates to have one here. I just checked Google Maps and it's a two day drive to here from your fair city.
That means that if someone kidnaps you, you'll be gone almost a week.

If there is ANY way possible, Id love for you (and your bride!) to make it.

Ed

Wish she'd never shown-up. I fall in love 'way too easily, and that aches a little every time � especially when a particularly huggable sweetie is there no longer.

Check PMs for draft list of Campfire participants.

And... unless I'm badly mistaken, that's my 41 MAG Titantium Tracker she is shooting in this picture. I know she shot everything handed to her, including it and a 40 S & W I had.

I think David kept the Linebaugh hidden when she was around.

nope she shot that too, atleast the low power loads like i did, infact she was trying o convince Jon's gal to shoot it aswell cause it wasnt that bad with the light loads....

Ken,

I'm sorry to say that I'm pretty sure she will show up again if at all possible. I hope the ache doesn't last long.

She had a great time and, I believe, was amazed by the kindness, generosity, and acceptance shown by everyone there.

David

And Paige, too?

Be still, my heart!

Most likely and with another, Maddie, who couldn't make it this go round.

i hope thats the case with her and with the other gals that showed up......hate to think the group wasnt hospitable....

A few pic.s from the NM AZ.trip.[URL=http://s210.photobucket.com/user/gils91/media/203_zps8522ef16.jpg.html][IMG]

I'm pretty sure this was the most she had ever shot a handgun, and certainly the greatest variety.

Ed spent a great deal of time with her and the results speak for themselves. I mentioned to her later that had she had to pay for that kind of instruction it would have cost her a small fortune.

Thanks Ed, it doesn't get any better than that.

David

Open steel shoot outcomes on the PM thread.

Tom,

I'm sorry you weren't able to make it this time and hopefully circumstances will allow you to come next year. I will plan on being there again if at all possible and maybe see you then.

David,

It was my pleasure. Having a willing student is an instructors dream. She soaked up information from me and the other folks and applied it as it fit her.
Evidently no one told her to be afraid of recoil because she sure wasn't shy about holding the sights on target and pulling the trigger!

I'm serious about getting up with you and learning more about the way you shoot handguns. While I have practiced for long range big game hunting with handguns, I am more of a tactical handgunner, be it revolver or auto pistol.

I look forward to seeing you again.

Ed

^^^^^^^^^^^^

After watching Ed and David and listening to their instructions I found that my handgun shooting dramatically improved when I got home.

Thank you Gentlemen for your expertise.

Ed,

I'd be happy to meet up with you again, and will. I need to get back to Wyoming and refill some brass as well as bring more. I wasn't really ready for this gathering and didn't have as much ammo as I would have liked.

Next time I'll bring some big stuff and a lot of it.

You might want to attend the Linebaugh Seminar next June. We do handgun shooting to nearly 1,000 yards. We usually do penetration tests, which are interesting. It's best to be there to see what goes on. Usually lots of other interesting stuff there like 50-90 Sharps, .458 Win Mag, .405 Winchester, and other fun and interesting revolvers. I missed going this year, sort of traded it for the campfire gig.

Keep an eye on the mail box. When I get a break I'll make it to the PO and get your package in the mail.

TDB

Any time. Glad to help.

David

I will have to plug that seminar into my calendar. Is there a website for it or a place I can go for more details?

Ed

I know what you mean about improving your shooting.

Within a week I was busting the thrown quarters with enough regularity for it to be getting expensive. I went to the hardware store and bought two pounds of quarter sized steel washers.

I've now progressed to the point that I can shoot through the hole in the center of 'em even when letting someone else throw them up in the air.

I'll show you at the next gatherin'.

You are my hero!

Ed

Here's his website. Not updated often so the 2014 info isn't available yet although the dates look about right.

was there someone at the Quemado campfire who had a .30 luger sizing die for sale? I was told there might have been one there

ed, tore down my beat up old kimber .45 acp, and showed me it was just about worn out, david, sighted it in for me,but i never got a chance to shoot pistols with everyone.kept busy doing every thing else. when i got home i decided to send my old kimber back to kimber and have it rebuilt and made new again,and i miss it every time i get in my truck, kinda sad,it was kinda like sending my kids off to college,sure hope it comes back happy to see me as i will be happy to see it. that pistol has saved my butt a few times. rio7

Blue, that tired warrior got that way from serious use and deserves the treatment you are giving it. The even wear on the parts showed that it was built right and properly maintained.

I'd be missing my primary 1911 too if I had to part with it for any length of time.
Did Kimber give you any idea how long it was going to be before you got it back?

Ed

I look forward to it sir!

ed, i talked to the guy at their custom shop,before i sent it, and told him i wanted it made over like new again, sent it to his att: seemed like a good guy i dont expect it back in less than 90 days, im packing my old colt commander for now, its a good gun but i like the kimber better, rio7

If it's being rebuilt at the Custom Shop, you should get a really sweet pistol back.
I hope you can get it back before 90 days.

Ed

Gene, forgot to tell you earlier. Those came from La Norte�a in Pecos.

Here's the info in case anyone wants to get some. I believe they have started shipping again. I think they're closed on Monday. Their card also says they are on face book.

La Notre�a Tamale Factory
211 East Third Street
Pecos, Texas 79772
432-445-3273
[email protected]

Reminiscing

Was lots of fun....hope to meet up with the group again

If my counting is correct, just under six weeks to the next one. miles

I know that you folks will have a blast. I wish I could be there!

Take plenty of pictures.

Ed

You are going to be missed. Sadly I carry a camera but get involved with something and forget to take pictures. After it is over, I say "Damn, I forgot to take pictures", but it don't help. miles

this year though ill be in Australia with some other 'fire members

I'll be taking pictures. Time spent behind the camera takes away time I could be spending making a complete fool of myself trying to shoot.