Why the need for a Creedmoore when the 6.5 Swede loaded to equal pressures exceeds the Creed in velocity with less compression?

money...……..why the need for 2/3rds of what is out there already...…...bob

Velocity per se was not the driving force behind the Creedmoor.

Why all the pussy hurt over a brass case.

I had a sheep rifle made for me by Harry McGowan some years ago. I wanted a light LH bolt. He asked if I was a reloader,

When I said yes, he recommended a 6.5-06 with one of his pencil barrels. Sounded good to me.

Norm

Light recoiling efficient bliss.

Bleed over from a competition niche and more/better factory offerings. But hand me 1,000 loaded rounds and a 1/2 MOA rig and I'll take either one.

^^ this. Who cares?

Oh boy, don't let Barsness see this post........
https://gunsmagazine.com/why-the-6-5-creedmoor/

Biggest advantages I see to the Creedmoor is a long neck and shoulder angle that goes a long ways towards preserving barrel life, rifles that are twisted to accommodate heavy bullets that are increasingly popular among loonys, and a lot of factory ammo offerings.

It can be used in a short action and has a standard case head. Why do so many people complain about it? It's just another cartridge. Truly all the 6.5's are similar and each has their aficionado's. suum cuique

This has been gone over extensively on many forums, joked about, bitched about, lied about and cried about. It is the most maligned cartridge since the .270 I think.

I have often thought you were dumb as a rock. This post proves it.

A) Short Action rifles.

B Not everybody handloads

C) Ammo avaiability (try getting 6.5 Swede ammo at Walmart etc.)

D) Rifle abaiability. Just about ebery maker chambers for the Creedmoor.
And just about every gunshop has a few rifles in stock. Not so with the Swede.

Has everyone forgotten the short and super short versions of pretty much everything they could think of a while back?

Spelling contest.

Fo Sho!

I bought a 6..5 CM because I wanted a light recoiling, accurate, round. It happens to be cheap to buy ammo, damn near everywhere has it now too. It's accurate a lot further out than I can shoot, but for the ranges I hunt, it's an excellent round. I bought a Kimber Hunter. Some like them, some don't. But I don't GAS what someone else thinks of my stuff. It's a nice little, lightweight rifle that shoot sub-MOA with a 200yd sight in.

NTSA!

But anyway.... Basically, the 6.5 Creedmoor fits in a 308-length magazine even when loaded with 140gr bullets.
https://blog.hornady.com/the-6-5-cr...ior-ballistician-dave-emary-19d67388f2fc

A guy I used to work with has a Browning .25 WSSM. The gun is lights out accurate. I'm talking that I've never seen a gun more accurate...he has one box of shells left. Nobody stocks them anymore.

Nine simple letters - 5 consonants, 4 vowels (when not consistently butchered in prose).
I don't recall a single word that's gotten so many undies in a bunch here like the word Creedmoor.

It's CBHS.

Why the need for cars when you can get around on a horse?

Show me factory or "loading manual data" that has the 6.5X55 loaded to the same pressure as the 6.5 Creed in a variety of bullet wts. using readily available powders..
BTW I have both the 6.5X55 (8) and the 6.5 Creed (1) along with several .260's..

The Creedmoor was engineered from it's inception to load long, high B.C. bullets close to the lands and still fit in a short action magazine. It also has the correct case head measurement for standard production rifles.

The company that introduced it looked at what was available in it's class and what was problematic with those cartridges and then engineered a case that would bypass those issues. Then they produced it, promoted it, and they fully support it.
What a breath of fresh air compared to some maker's introductions.

It is simply the easiest answer to what the shooting world demands today.

Could factories safely produce your load and sell them with the knowledge of older military rifles so chambered that do not meet today's engineering or metallurgy standards?

I think a lot of guys talk up the Creed, because they know it bothers other guys. Is that a possibility? There are probably guys bragging on the Creed that haven’t seen one.

I killed a coyote at six miles away with my Creedmoor!!! 😎

I've wonder why they don't update cartridges to modern pressures myself. They did it with the 30-06 so why not the 6.5x55 or .257 Roberts. I'm sure there are others that could be uploaded to safe pressures for modern guns. The 30-06 doesn't have a warning not to use it in guns made in 1906, but then they might not have a reason for new cartridges.

If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their asses.

If you have a swede is there any reason to get a CM? Maybe not, unless you want semi auto.

If you were like me and didn't have a swede and wanted something new, why not the CM? Short action, low recoil, common ammo in bolt or AR platform.

I didn't get it because I thought it was better than everything else, I got it as a low recoil .308 alternative.

Why not just simplify everything.......when I was growing up, I knew a lot of people who only owned 2 guns.........a 22 rifle for hog killing and maybe squirrel hunting, and a 12 gauge shotgun for everything else. Some of them probably packed a pistol, but didn't advertise it if they did.


Admittedly, we don't need the choices in cartridges that we have available, just like we don't need all the different options on our cars and trucks, our homes, our clothes, our food, and just about anything else you can think of. But, those of us who like rifles appreciate the choices we have, and there's nothing wrong with that. I have a 6.5 Creedmoor, and I like it, because I wanted a flat shooting, low recoiling deer cartridge that would work in a short action rifle. It fits that description to a "T".........but so do several others, that would also work just as well, and I'll use some of those too.

To market more guns and ammo?

It's the 22-250 all growed up and matured.

Because it is cooler to say "Creedmoor than Swede". I kind of like the ring of "Ought Six" myself, and it kind of makes both of the others "un-necessary".

LOL
Actually the reason I asked was my son has a wild hair up his ass to by a new rifle.

He is talking CM.

He already has. Stainless Wood In 6.5 Swede and I have a CZ Full Stock in Swede that he will inherit shorty.

Besides being Short action what does the CM bring to his table. I thought maybe you guys could identify some CM advantages I could pass on to him.
Yes, we both handload

Probably nothing to the table for a handloader with two Swedes that fill the same slot. I've got a 700 sporter I like in 260 and likely wouldn't feel compelled to buy its clone in Creedmoor, but if the rifle was different enough and offered something else (aesthetics, intended role, etc.) then I can certainly see having multiple rifles in similar chamberings. There are likely guys here with half a dozen 308 rifles, with none of them being very similar except for the stamp on the barrel.

1:8 twist from the factory . do a 8 twist 260 and see what happens .

Because a lot of people like having the newest, latest and fastest , whether it's cartridges, cars, bass boats, motorcycles, whatever.

If they have the money and it's fun for them, who are we to complain?

I give up, what happens?

Heads will explode when the new 27 CM hits the market.

"Creedmoor" sounds mystical & cool, kinda like "Nitro Express"

Guys approach the rifle/cartridge questions from different angles so it is a given that the answers are going to vary.

Human nature being what it is, there will always be some in most any discussion who participate primarily to denigrate the next guy’s choice.

Personally, I like bullets leaving the muzzle at 3400 FPS minimum and I’m willing to carry a heavier rifle if that is what is required, so the Creedmore interests me not at all.

To cause as much butthurt as possible to people resistant to change.

Here's what happened with my latest 1-8 twist .260, prominently mentioned in the article Casey (alpinecrick) provided a link to, though apparently very few on this thread bothered to read it, because it might take three minutes they could use to make more posts.

This .260 is a Tikka T3, part of a special run from Whittaker Guns. It proved to be VERY accurate, not unknown in Tikkas, but the standard short magazine proved to be too short to allow even many "hunting" bullets to be seated to the lands, much less high-BC bullets--and the rifle proved to be most accurate with bullets seated close to the lands. So I spent a couple hours modifying the magazine so it would accept rounds up to 2.95 inches long, which solved the problem.

All 6.5 Creedmoor rifles come with 1-8 twist barrels right from the factory, and bullets seated to the lands will fit inside their magazines. Both .260 problems are solved from the get-go.

As for the OP's question, one answer is that if you have an accurate 6.5x55 (I do) there's no need for a 6.5 Creedmoor--though my custom Lilja-barreled 6.5x55 doesn't shoot any better than the average factory 6.5 Creedmoor, and not as well as some.

Another answer comes in the form of a question: What does "need" have to do with 99% of rifle stuff discussed on the Campfire?

My most humble apologies for not reading your article, I won't let it happen again.

My .260 has a 3-inch magazine, so I've not run into this problem, but thanks for clarifying that the problem is the magazine, not the 8-twist.

Need is irrelevant. Want is the standard.

Don't lose sight of that, or you will forfeit your Loonie credentials.

It's now possible for end users to acquire what's needed to satisfy nearly every whim, requirement, notion, etc as to platform, caliber, twist, velocity, ta dum de dum de dum, with relative ease. WTF is wrong with that, and why do so many piss and moan about the Golden Age of opportunity we have? This isn't a zero-sum game; nothing prevents anyone from enjoying their personal ballistic ideal except the laws of physics and the limits of their finances. Why should anyone give a red rat's ass what anyone else uses or feel diminished by others' success and satisfaction in their pursuits? Conversely, why does anyone feel a need to take potshots at what others use and like?

It's like a bunch of high school girls busting on each others' purses on Facebook. Grow the fugg up.

Unless he wants an AR-10 or some other detachable magazine-fed rifle, nothing.

I have 2 6.5 Swedish Mauser based guns and a Tikka T3 in 6.5 Swede. I really want to know the big deal made over a short action. The last time I shot a deer I don't remember the long action being a problem. My son says I racked it pretty quickly though. Weight difference? Have a bigger bowl of Wheaties. Performance? I probably won't take a shot over 200 yards as I can't generally see much over that. I think the Swede would have the edge in 160 grain bullets but not overwhelmingly so.
All that aside, I want something in 6.5 Creedmore just because I like to monk around with guns and loads. My wife makes some noises about hunting again and it sounds like the 6.5 CM will be soft enough recoiling not to bother her.

I never played with the WSSM's, but I have a few WSM's and really like them. I wish I had never sold my 7mmWSM though, but I still have the 270 and 300 WSMs.

If all we do is shoot deer at 200 yards we really can't show a great need for more than the 30-30 lever gun.

It's a big world and there are all sorts of potential for all kinds of riflemen.

And your kid is gonna do what he wants to anyway. My youngest recently showed up with a Kel Tec PF9. I choked a bit, but we went to the range together and had a great time.

He already had enough guns to do everything he NEEDS to for a lifetime, but he made a choice and he'll figure out the nature of choices.

Being a handloader and already owning a couple of Swedes, I never had much interest in the Creedmoor though everything about it makes a lot of sense. Then the Barrett Fieldcraft came to be and I had to have one - the Creedmoor made more sense to me than anything else in that particular rifle. This combo has become an instant favorite but it's as much the rifle as the cartridge. I've debated what I might start my grandsons hunting with when they get a little older. Prior to the Creedmoor it'd likely have been the 243, but today with deer and elk on the menu at the same time, I'll probably start them with 6.5 Creedmoors.

Reminds me I should order a fast twist barrel for the .270 Ingwe...

Fot those that can't spell Swedish Norwigeon Mouser.

Well I don't see very many nib 6.5 Swedes selling for $300-$400 bucks. You can go and buy 50 rds of hornady ammo for the CM loaded with 140gr bthp for less than $60 bucks. You can't do that with the Swede..

You can buy 200 rounds of the 140 BTHP Hornady American Gunner at Sportsmans for $139. and it shoots!

Even better and proves the point over the 6.5 cm versus 6.5 Swede.. I have swede it was that lipsey run of 250 for this yr. I will get another 6.5 cm once Winchester makes them in the model 70.

Steve, 6.5 creed fits in a short action with room to seat the bullets out pure and simple. Neither the 260 nor the 6.5 swede will do that in a short action. Some people would never use that but a large amount of people do. If you do use it the 6.5 creed gives you more for the same in a short action. From a marketing standpoint it was absolutely brilliant and the sales show it. Along with great sales comes much more ammo, cheaper ammo, more available ammo. Who in there right mind would not want the extra benefits?

I personally hunt with a 6.5 swede and handload. When I buy my second grandkid a rifle it will be a creedmoor! Why? He might not want to handload and I'd much prefer he can buy ammo anywhere when he needs to.



Trystan

Proves the point of 6.5CM over a whole lotta stuff...and along the lines of a 308, which has the biggest plethora of ammo out there.

I must be getting old because I still shoot my 25-06 with 75gr Sierra bullets and 60gr of 4831. Speed is about 3700. Barrel is a 10T Remington from back when the Rem fac would re-barrel in their shop. Excellent accuracy to 300 plus yds. I don't shoot much farther than that.

Just befuckencause thats why.

Built my last 260 on a long action . no problems

smokepole,

My comment on not reading the linked article was for ldholton, not you.

ldholton,

Another post for you: What's the point of "building" a special .260 on a long action, when you can just go buy an off-the-shelf 6.5 Creedmoor that works just as well, if not better? Should everybody go build a long-action .260 instead? Boy, I can just them lining up in gunsmith shops to get one of those new long-action .260's.

Plus, while .260 brass isn't exactly unavailable (I use Lapua in mine), there's a LOT more good 6.5 Creedmoor brass available these days.

I just don't get this obsession with "proving" other small 6.5's are just as good as the 6.5 Creedmoor--partly because if they actually were, they would have long ago become what the 6.5 Creedmoor is now, one of the world's (not just America's) most popular cartridges. Without having to build a .260 on a long action, or a 6.5x55 with a modern throat.

Come to think of it, if you're going to the trouble and expense of building a .260 on a long action, why not a 6.5x55, or even a 6.5-06? Both will get more muzzle velocity than the .260, which is apparently what so many anti-Creedmoor shooters are obsessed about.

Okay, I shall let you in on the secret just this once but you have to promise to not tell anyone, the whole thing was created so that all the new shooters would lust after this cartridge in a plastic platform so that all those with taste/style could snaffle all the truly interesting firearms made of blued steel and charisma.

But Shhhh...keep it quite.

Ok,you discribed the 243,260,7mmo8. I owned a creedmoor for 2 weeks before i decided that for hunting i already have 3-4 more accurate rifles

"But Shhhh...keep it quite."

Are you very quite when hunting wascally wabbits?

Creedmoor chamber reamers won't cut 4140 cro-mo?

Ooops, once again, my most humble apologies......without the sarcasm font this time.

[u][/u]
Never said I was anti Creedmoor. Those that think that Creedmoor so much more cartridge in say the 260 as my example or absolutely wrong. How it is Sammi spec there is some advantages yes but you can take 260 you can neck down 308 Palma Lapua brass you got your small primer pocket already you can push it to higher pressures in the Creedmoor. The reason to run one in a long action is deceit whatever profile bullet you want in contact with the lands and also keep in contact with your land as your throat erodes if you think you can load a Creedmoor with any profile bullet and run it through the magazine especially as the Lands eroad you are dead wrong. And why would I build on a long action to have the advantage of bullet seating bullets as such and also have a lower recoil rifle sorry if that's difficult to understand

What do you call a girl with a 6.5CM?


















Creedmolly.

You are missing the point entirely. NEED is a 4-letter word and has nothing to do with it!

I don't NEED a man-bun either.

The intolerance here rivals that of Kavenaugh hearings. If you don’t use the 6.5, get ready to be pounded...

I finally have a 6.5 in my possession. Tho it's not a Creedmoor, It's a 6.5 PRC. I haven't shot it yet. Might be a couple a week before I can get out. I just had my Gallbladder removed. Need time to heal up. Says the Doctor.

The 260, and 6.5X55 will do anything the 6.5 CM will do. If you handload and/or have custom rifles built to take advantage of modern high BC bullets. The 260 cartridge and most rifles were designed around 120 gr hunting bullets. The 6.5X55 around 160 gr RN bullets at considerably less pressure. The 6.5CM was designed around modern high BC bullets and offers the performance in reasonably priced off the shelf ammo and rifles.

I don't think it is necessarily BETTER, but it is certainly easier to get into the 6.5 cartridge with the Creedmoor than other 6.5's.

So they shortened the throat of the CM?

Primarily they shortened the case.

Could look up the length of the throat in the 6.5 Creedmoor vs. the .260 but am not going to bother. The major point was to create a case that worked well with the standard factory short magazine, which allows overall cartridge lengths of about 2.85 inches, when using high-BC bullets with longer ogives than were common back when the .260 appeared in 1997. Essentially the Creedmoor is a .260 shortened enough for the "new reality" of higher-BC bullets.

No one pounds anyone about not using a creedmoor. All that is seen is the anti people.

You are no different than the gays who hate trump and go way out of your way to constantly say it in public. You once made some good posts but you are no different now than a liberal

This ∆ gentleman knows his stuff. That said, I'm TIRED of hearing about it. It's a good cartridge. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. There are plenty good cartridges. When I hear somebody say "Creedmoor", it's like hearing them say "transgender". It's a conversation that may be really important to them...but not me.

So, how does the Creedmoor stack up against say, a 270 Win?

They both identify as superior cartridges.

Correct me if lm wrong, but I don't think the 30-06 is factory loaded to the same pressures as the 270 win, or the 308 win.

that makes too much sense. campfire will never buy that excuse.

it's the .250 Savage everyone has been begging for for years!

Lol...that would make sense to me to if the guys wearing Creedmoor capes actually shot their rifles.

Who needs a 260 (sold it), a 6.5 CM (have 2), or a 6.5x55 (just picked one up) when you have a 256 Newton? 😎

P.S. I still think real hunting bullets start with a 200gr .308 Partition.

Now there is an idea!!

benchrest shooters found a little more accuratcy at 1000yds with the creedmoor and everyone automaticly thinks its the greatest thing ever.as a hunting round its no better than most other calibers.take your pic for hunting 223-300winmag. they all kill

I still say the biggest "advantage" is what's on the ammo shelf. Custom rifles and handloads throw all that out the window.

My son has decided against the CM.

You guy have convinced him that the Swede will do everything the CM can do and then some.

Thanks for all the help.

Now, what to buy, what to buy, that is the question.

Well, there's.. no, discontinued

How about..... no, not that one either

There was a special run of... sold out

Walmart had some..... oops, that was a Creedmoor

Seriously, there's the Barrett Fieldcraft, CZ 557, probably Tikkas and Sakos, maybe some falling block Rugers or Wichesters on Gunbroker. Just gonna have to look around some. Good luck.

By Crackies, that is the truth!

A Swede can do what a Creed can do, and then some?


Mmmmm......ok

Higher velocity and the ability to shoot the 160's with ease.

It's biggest advantage is that it apparently sells, and when that plateaus out they will come up with the next you-beaut wonder of the moment to make a buck, and while the companies are making a buck they will keep selling stuff I want.

Who gives a [bleep] about shooting 160's?

Just wait. Those scheming marketing guys Hornady and Ruger are likely conspiring to trick people again. They’re gonna add the 30* shoulder and blow out the case on the 6.5x55, and load it to modern pressures.

It's really gonna spin people up, especially those with Swedes or 6.5-06s, especially since it’ll be called the 6.5 Sweedmoor.... 🤣.

The creedmoor is a slick setup, and basically does what my 8 twisted 260 does, and I can buy cheap accurate ammo to bang away with instead of spending more time at the loading bench.

Those that have rifles chambered in cartridges that can handle them, like the Swede.

Speed kills.

Yes - if you look at SAAMI the creedmore freebore or distance to the lands is shorter than others..

At the end of the day “will it shoot” off the shelf for any combination of bullet weight you throw at it (not considering tolerances of the maker).. - is based off can you optimize kissing the lands in the case without seating the bullet base beyond the neck should junction, with decent neck ...
The Creed was built based on this.... in normal magazine sizes (considering OAL that is).


the Swede has a very long freebore to those lands are way out... but that means magazine problems that MD talked about...

So the creed’s claim to fame is not wrong - it’s optimized.... so Off the shelf rifles and ammo have a darn good shot at performing well.

Then you have the non-hunting effects kick in... small primers w/small holes for hunting... um NOPE... (stick with large primers)
The Creed shoulder also feeds rougher than a Swede or 260....

I forgot about all the 160 bullets available. Both of them.

The Swede's as fine a choice as any. Good luck.

Simply, new toy, that's good enough.

It's called the .270 Ingwe

Ironically they probably shoot them more than most guys with 338s and 375s, you know, real riflemen.

Exactly! I have never seen another cartridge get people so bothered. I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor and like it. I have several other rifles too. It doesn't do anything groundbreaking, at least in my hands. It is a good cartridge, though, and I don't understand why some people feel the need to complain about it. It is basically a .260 Rem in a slightly shorter case and with more factory ammo available.

Nah... Won't fly...

Let's start with the title of this thread. Whole lotta chest pounders who just gotta prove to the world that what they shoot is the BEST. And everyone else is off base.

Me? Don't own a creedmoor yet, and just fired my first one last week while I was on vacation. And yeah, it's just another rifle choice but anyone with any sense of engineering elegance has gotta see what's right about this cartridge.

Are any and all creedmoors gonna be more accurate than my sako .222, or my custom barreled and tuned winchester 25-06? Got my doubts...

Bottom line is that I am a fan of the thought processes that produced the creedmoor. Right thinkers...

I'll bet the guy who started this thread didn't always shoot or even like the Swede. Rinky dink, off caliber foreign round.
You could buy ten of them and not have any real money into them.

A few articles here and there and they became a nouveau cult favorite. I heard incredible claims both here and elsewhere about the "fantastic properties" inherent in the mighty 6.5 long skinny bullets.

And I'll always be a fan of craftsmanship and execution.

But the means for a shooter to righteously get into the long range game for under (way under) $1000 fascinates me. And this via mass produced rifles, optics, and ammo.

I'll take that bet.

How much?

You need to make up your mind as to which way it is. Hopefully the Creed is more consistent...

Shrapnel has never not been the LOOK AT ME GUY, ever.

That has a lot to do with this thread from Mr. look at me himself. You are like a skunk in a culvert, just because you can’t smell yourself doesn’t mean you don’t stink...

That's ok, I don't dress up with leggings and a BAR to shot a fu*king rabbit. Of course you curse plastic rifles, whilst your son shoots a RAR to kill shiet and you ask about one for an Alaskan hunt.

You're a road hunter at best. Know a few guys that have seen you at gunshows and you're a showoff without the show. No surprise really.

Who are y’all kidding? You’re both douchebags that deserve each other.

UGH, get over it already. I have a .308 and a Creedmoor. Shoot whatever the fugk you want for whatever reason you want. Not because someone on the forum thinks you're cool or gay.

Now my feelings are really hurt.

You’re too self absorbed for that to happen.

Mrs. Shrapnel?

From Mr. Witty? laffin..

It was a guess. Could have been Mrs. Sandbilly, cause I know you ain't been there, but I may have been. Shrapnel, no chance, he couldn't post a pic of it whilst wearing leggings and a critter whole in the back of his truck.

Seen your uncle Larry lately? I bet he’s keeping tabs on you...

Bazinnnnngaaaaaaa. Like keeping up with Jamesjr.

You know. You’re uncle Larry, the one that butt diddled you as a young’n? That’s why you’re so angry, right?

I understand, suppressed memories and all...

Projection is your strong suit. So you're saying you have a size 7 1/2 butthole and the only noise you make when you fart sounds like Tom Browne.

Congrats, I guess that is why there is no Mrs. Sandbilly.

I'm sure you DO understand. Fu*king f a g.

Lol, Mrs SandBilly would make uncle Larry and your fat wife look like a big pile of dog excrement. Care to compare pics?

I know it may take you awhile, needing the extra bandwidth and all....

Now that my son has given up the CM in favor of his Swedes he came to me with this.

http://www.dtechuppers.com/ar-15-wssm-upper-receivers.html

AR-15 in 25 WSSM.

This thread is full of toxic masculinity! I'm kidding but why all of the hostility? Are you guys seriously fighting over what cartridges you like? Insulting each other's families? Come on, we're better than this.

I am interested in the 25 WSSM but don't have any experience with it. I have a few different hunting rifles and my favorite one to shoot is my 25-06. I really, really like the 25-06. My only complaint is that is not supposed to perform as well and is supposed to produce a lot of muzzle blast out of a barrel under 24". I don't know that that is true but I read that somewhere. Mine is a 24" barrel and combined with the long action, it is a pretty long rifle. I don't think it would matter in the open but it is a little bit unwieldy in the woods. If a 25 WSSM performs like a 25-06 but in a shorter rifle, that sounds about ideal to me. If Remington made the Model 700 Stainless Mountain Rifle in 25 WSSM, I would buy one immediately.

25 WSSM......Holy schit. Get that kid off the internet.....

The POS wants to talk about my 7 year old son, there are no rules. You should worry about you.

I have a Model 70 Featherweight Stainless Wood in 25WSSM.

This thing is amazing. It is small, light accurate as hell and runs only about 100fps shy of the 25-06.

I love this thing.

My son has his 6.5 Swede in M-70 Stainless Wood and he thinks that my WSSM would be a perfect match in his Gun Cabinet. Not yet, that one says with me I'm in the ground.

Well then get a room, Billy. Some of us are here to talk rifles. Putting this crap on a public forum involves the rest of us who really don't feel like watching the histrionics.

Steve: That sounds like a great set up. I just looked at the Winchester website and couldn't find it. It may not be in production anymore.

.................................................bell bottoms, WHY?

I'd betcha a coke the next time we meet

The hell you say...

You mean, other than the 270 being gay?

If 270 = gay, then 6.5CM = #MeToo?

Or is it 270=Liberace, 6.5CM=Justin Beeber?

223AI= Umpa Loompha?

30-06 = John Wayne?

308= Chris Kyle?

243 = Opey Taylor?

It's 2018.

If you don't know by this point don't worry about it.

+1

A woman just decided to press charges because a guy grabbed her hand and tried to kiss her back in high school (20 years ago). The other boyfriend never tried to kiss her. He’s buying a Creedmore today.

Suminabitch those are funny! If an Umpa Loompha does Opey Taylor,what do you end up with?

6mmBR

Idgaf what you like watching.

The rifle forums are below..