Ouch

Pretty much.

Of course the NRA would be better represented by a disgruntled guy with a gray beard and a ball cap bitching about what the NRA isn't. Imperfect as the NRA is, you will never please everyone no matter what your platform. NRA is only for "Fudds" High profile sportsman and lobbyists. I guess I will continue to support the NRA because I don't know that his guy is, or has all the "answers"...

More BS.

I support the NRA however I feel they don't do a good job supporting gun rights. They are lobbyist and lobbyist want to make money. I get it. But at the same time we are paying them to fight for us. With that said their fight is pretty weak.

I think that guy in the video is queerer then a three dollar bill. But his message isn't far off. Specially about the board, and those really in control.

I think a lot of these "hit pieces" are done by the anti-gun lobby.......they are the ones that want the NRA to go away more than anybody.

There is a lot of miss information on the news channels and the internet.

The Yankee Marshmellow is A LIFELONG DEMOCRAT who has NEVER had a private sector job.

People b!tch about the NRA. If it weren’t for the NRA, we wouldn’t have guns now. Yes they lobby, they send out a huge amount of mail, but they play the game for gun owners.

I've had complaints about the NRA over the years, but if the NRA had not done what it has we would have very strict gun control, something like Australia or worse.

It is rants like this that give strength to the anti gun people. The 2 most important ingredients in holding on to the freedoms we have in this country are truth and unity. The Democrats have unity but no truth. Conservatives have truth but no unity. It is obvious that if you only have one ingredient, unity is more powerful.

It is time conservatives realize this and become unified, because both truth and unity will destroy liberalism...

My question is why a few people are trying to get gun owners to abandon the NRA. Is it to weaken its effectiveness in Congress so more gun rights can be taken away.

Best post so far this year. Hasbeen

Was it Andrew Jackson who said ‘rotation in office is a good thing ‘ ?

This. I was thinking the same thing!

F'ing A!

No, I have abandoned the NRA because they (the LaPierre cabal) concentrate on fundraising first and legislating second, when lawsuits and court action should be primary. The reason they concentrate on legislation is because favorable court rulings would lessen the crisis and donations would dry up. The NRA inaction in the Heller and McDonald cases finished any support I had for the organization. I'm a life member, but they don't need to send me any more mail. Every time they call I tell them "call back when LaPierre is gone".

In 2016 the NRA took in $433.9 million in revenue with only 5 million members. I would say that is the number one reason. Bloomberg by dropping 50 million, most likely could break any other gun rights group trying to fight him. Not so much the NRA. 2016 the NRA spent 30 million backing Trump alone.

If you don't support the NRA, then who do you support. Gun control. The NRA has its problems, but where would we be without it? Use your Damn head for something other than hats. I will support the NRA.

The Trump support was good. Second Amendment favorable judges are important, he appoints those. Second amendment favorable Senators are important, they confirm good judges. I'm for that kind of support and the publishing of politicians stand on gun rights. But the fight needs to concentrate on supporting lawsuits against unconstitutional restrictions attempted by local, state, and federal entities. Without supreme court precedent which we can get now and may not get later we are fighting a lost cause. Gun ownership rights do not have majority support of the U.S. population.

Revenue generated per member: The NRA averages to about $87 per member.
Gun Owners of America averages to about $1.43 per member.
GOA are great patriots, Taking in 2.5 mill a year isn't going to cut it fighting gun control groups on their own.

NRA, I'm a life member and still contribute from time to time.
They have been around a long, long time and know how to
fight and how to lay low. My belief is without them we, the
gun owners, would be in over our heads. Yes, the word used
above "unity" is certainly meaningful.

What the hell is a FUDD?

I liken the NRA to Unions. They did a heck of a job and were good for us for several years. Not so much now. They are not fighting for "shall not be infringed". They should be fighting tooth and nail for any infringement ie bump stocks and red flag laws. Yet, they are not. So tell me, what did the NRA do with the other 403 million in 2016? That's spending over a million a day.

I joined the NRA in 1979 and was a member until last year. I gladly sent them thousands of dollars. They were backing us and fighting for us. Now, they have gone back to their roots where they are helping the government by rolling over and doing nothing. I miss my old NRA.

Jim

So well said...

The NRA has supported every major federal gun legislation now in existence. Pro-2nd? Laughable. The problem with you guys is that you are idiots. Enough said.

Jim,

Not sure but it may be referring to sportsman hunters and shooters. Just like Elmer.

Jim

Jeezus....you been on a tare lately HuntanShoot.

I hear the term from time to time. Figured it was derogatory!

The NRA wants us to believe they are the 1000 pound gorilla and that they are the reason we still have any guns at all........but, ask yourself, if they really are that powerful, why don't we have nationwide concealed carry reciprocity and the hearing protection act??

The republicans have controlled the house, senate and the oval office for 2 years and couldn't pass the hearing protection act and the nationwide concealed carry??

Instead of fighting for gun rights and gun owners, LaPierre and Cox supported the bump stock ban and red flags laws.......they didn't just surrender without a fight, they supplied the enemy with ammunition to use against us!!!

I have been a member for decades, I am an NRA certified instructor and have recruited for the NRA in the past.......but I'm done with them until LaPierre and Cox are gone......under current leadership, the NRA isn't the 1000 pound gorilla, it's a paper tiger.

You are the reason I belong to the NRA. It is fools like you that we are in the position we are in. and belonging to the NRA is the only chanch we have of fighting you AZZ hat.

So, just to clarify.....


We have the best gun rights in the world because of luck and the kindness of the Politicians hearts?


I find that hard to believe.

You’re a democrap, right?

No, I just have a higher IQ than you, by several standard deviations. I can interpret facts and logic, while you cannot.

I suppose you'd also argue: "Yeah he beats my daughter and keeps hitting us up for money, but who else is she gonna find to marry her?"

You are short-sighted and cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It takes a real money to keep an organization like that running. Pat85 said they took in $434 million in one year from just 5 million members. Do you realize that is less than $100 per member from all sources?

They have paid employees in every state. What do you think that costs? They spend how much on election advertising? What does it cost to produce and mail what must come to about 40 or 50 million magazines each year? What is the cost of operating the museum? Small minds ae overwhelmed by large numbers, you know.

Yes they don't always approach things the same way other organizations do. But the differences are well-considered based on how they appraise the battlefield. What did we win Heller by, one vote? NRA was afraid of the consequences if it went the other way. They use the courts when they see fit but they cautiously avoid cases with scary odds that could result in bad precedent that would be incredibly difficult to overcome.

Did they 'cave' on bump stocks or did they make a strategic withdrawal? Our president needed some cover. It was impossible to communicate the fine points of the good arguments against that action, especially with the MSM operating in lock step to drown out and overthrow the president. So we "caved" and let the BATF write some regulations with no basis in law that are highly likely to be tossed out by the courts - a strategic move.

Attacking the NRA right now is like deciding to re-caulk your lifeboat while you're floating in it. Get off your high horse and send them $100 dollars today. The paltry sum you paid for your life membership was spent years ago.

It is fools like you who imagine that a group that makes its money from pushing fear cares about you, or your "rights". It is fools like you who imagine that you can hire some group to do something that it is your responsibility to do. YOU are in charge of your rights. I'll repeat that: YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF YOUR RIGHTS. Not a "government", YOU. Not a lobbying group, YOU. It is fools like you who never understood this, and so you don't actually have any rights; you have privileges granted you by your betters as you beg on your knees and hand over your resources.

The NRA has profited for a long time while peddling away your rights piecemeal. Keep believing. They love you for it.

I have been a member for over 60 years, that said, I feel there needs to be a shake up or reorganization in it. I paid my membership two months ago. Since that time I have received three letters, two phone calls and two emails saying I need to renew my membership. Waste of time and money. I will continue to support them but as said by some, I feel a change in leadership should be looked at to better support us. I also belong to the CA. Rifle and Pistol Assn. which I feel does a better job for us here as far as firearms and hunting than the NRA.

I support myself. I'm not fond of welfare, ie free handouts. If it isn't important enough for me to defend or keep, then why would I give someone money to do it for me. That falls very close to bribery and there is always someone else who will come along with a bigger bribe payment.



I wouldn't want to be the one to try and prove that as factual.

You got that right!

Have the NRA compromised on some issues? Yes. Some things aren't worth fighting against.

Can they conceivably start court fights against every single attempted infringement that comes up? No. There isn't enough money to do that.

Now tell me this: If you "all or nothing" people don't get "all" what do you get? That's right.

No. We have the best gun rights in the world because the NRA stood up to the British on Lexington green.

I would bet you voted for Tester. Hasbeen

What is "nothing" Alex.

The GOA has filed suit to stop the bump stock laws. The NRA basically welcomed those laws. The GOA is 100% against red flag laws. The NRA is willing to support a modified version of it. The GOA might only take in $1.43/member (based on 2015 records) but they fight for the 2nd and ALL that it means. Ron Paul called them the ONLY no-compromise gun lobby in Washington.
I would happily send the NRA $1000.00 today if they would get rid of their management. They need a shake up.

Jim

Who has the best return on investment?


Genuinely curious. NSSF, GOA, NRA......I am sure there are others.

It use to be the NRA. Not sure anymore.

Jim

WTF? Are you high?

There are a lot of better local grassroots organizations, like the CCDL in CT. GOA is a good organization as well. I rather give them my hard earned money then the NRA at this time. I am a life member of the NRA, I am a NRA certified instructor, and I will continue to support them. However I am dam sure going to criticize were so deserved. I was very vocal with the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation years ago when they wouldn't take a stand on wolves. I pay them money to support what is best for ELK, hunting, and commonsense. I didn't stop supporting, but I dam sure let them know how displeased I was. If you can't and won't criticize something you support, you are just a sheep and follower. Ok and average are not acceptable to me.

Same schit different decade.

Haven’t heard the liberals cussing anyone but the NRA. When the liberals start cussing the others , I will know they are accomplishing something. Hasbeen

Well spoken. Like them or NOT, the NRA is the gun owners ONLY ally..

Only because of this mentality. Stop funding the NRA, Pump all that money into GOA! I bet you see the NRA change their ways!!!!!!!!!

United we stand,divided we fall.I may not agree with everything the NRA does,but they are the glue that holds us together.Anyone thinking an individual has any chance in standing up to anti gunners must like pissing into the wind.

The NRA has it's place. Best bang for the buck would go to the SAF. They are usually the first to file lawsuits in support of the 2nd.
After the NRA sees which way the winds are blowing they may join the suit later and claim victory.

Once you accept mediocracy, all they will give you is mediocracy. Just like or government!

Wow! This exemplifies lack of unity...

It is hilarious to me that simply and honestly holding the NRA accountable for their own actions vs their rhetoric brings out the name-callers here. Seems pretty obvious that if all you have is name-calling, you have no facts with which to make a point.

This.

I dumped the NRA after they came out for both Red Flag laws and a bump stock ban. With friends like that, we don’t need any enemies. I joined GOA. The NRA also pushed for and got background checks which the left have been trying to expand, predictably, into universal registration. The list goes on.

N ever
R epeal
A nything

If I were speculating on why we still have the gun rights we do I would credit the 2nd Amendment. I just wish our NRA would keep that issue constantly in court.

Compromise and not standing firm for our freedoms tends to do that

I hate the NBA...it’s nothing but a slam fest......





🧐

10-4, someone on speaking terms with NRA leadership should convince them there is a problem, and that a bunch of folks that could be avid supporters are badly disaffected. We are the people NRA needs, they are never going to win over the other side by being "reasonable" or supporting "common sense" gun safety regulations.

“NRA Certified Instructor”

That’s as funny as their insurance policy.


So let me get this straight, is a “NRACI” the top of the heap or bottom of the barrel??


100% meaningless......

This. As a pro gun person, I realize that there is room for, and a need for different groups and approaches in our continual struggle to support the Second Amendment. Some groups are better in the legal field. It is much less costly than the a full federal/state legislative approach. It is also easier to pick and choose your cases and usually they are taking the initiative (going on offense) against ill advised laws and regulations. GOA and SAF are examples of such groups - and I support them. Then there are the legislative/political fields. In this area we are more on the defensive. Why? Because we generally lack popular political support. We can't get 60 Senators to support concealed carry reciprocity or the legal use of suppressors. By its nature the legislative process is a compromise process. Sometimes you face a situation where you have to "give" in order to stall off a potentially worse legislative outcome, or to avoid a situation where you place your political allies in a vulnerable situation (i.e. bump stocks). And it is very expensive, especially if you seriously engage in the necessary political election process to support a legislative agenda at the federal and state level. NRA is one example of such a group and I support them as well. I also support them for the many other programs they run (education, competitions, funding support for ranges, insurance, etc.).
As Shrapnel says - unity in the key. It is also common in the political/legislative areas to have "shadow" groups pop up to specifically create disunity in causes..

You do realize the supreme court hasn't heard a gun case in 10 years?

Depends, what the goal is. I did it to teach new shooter and to give the required class for a pistol permit. Does it make you an incredible teacher NO. You get out of it what you put into it. Are there better more advanced courses absolutely. It is not a bad place to start.

This shouldn’t be a decisive issue but it has become that. We almost got Hillary as POTUS and too soon we have forgotten that. Part of the reason for this is, we are too set on our own view and can’t bend for the wrong reason, not recognizing the right reason...

There may be a lot of truth in that last sentence. It seems that lately they only take on what they feel they can easily win. About ten years ago, I bought a bound collection of the American Rifleman so I have literally almost every copy from 1936 to the present date. I have a few 1936/6 and am still missing all of 1939. It's interesting to see just how the NRA has changed from supporting the shooting sports to a political entity.

There are times when I get the feeling the NRA does not want to win. They compromise a lot and every time they do, the antis gain another inch and we lose another inch. I'm an endowment life member and frankly, during the last few years I don't feel I've gotten my money's worth. I've been a member starting with annual membership back in 1955 and raised my level over the years to my current level.

Gun control for the NRA has become a big cash cow. as long as the antis do their thing, we the membership will send in money. The question is, "Are we getting our money's worth?"
Paul B.

Jim,
A Fudd is the guy who shoots trap and considers himself an outdoorsman but refuses to be concerned about things like concealed carry reform or assault weapons bans.

Because they feel it does not affect them.

This discussion is running in circles and I admit I have been more or less repeating the same stuff over and over. But it would be accurate to say millions of gun owners think the NRA is a money grubbing org. that is not avid enough in defense of our gun rights. Those millions of people are the only people that can insure the survival of the NRA and more importantly our gun ownership rights. If we perceive the NRA as ineffectual we will go somewhere else. You happy NRA members need us, and our millions of dollars. If you don't accommodate us we will go somewhere else. You can go absolutely nowhere else for members and support. The end.

There are only 4.5 million NRA members, but 160 million gun owners. Who's not doing their part?

Not “slamming” you or your efforts. Just saying that all the eggs in one basket is never a good idea. Seems the entire “gun world” has decided that anything stamped “NRA” approved or certified is the be all end all.

Same as FDA, EPA....etc.

I didn't take it as you slamming me. Adults can discuss issues and not always agree. I agree the NRA courses are lacking, but also depends on the instructor you get too and their motivation for being an instructor. I by no means got into it to profit. I got in because I want to get more people involved in shooting, shooting sports, and hunting. I'll be the first to tell you I am not a great instructor. I just haven't given enough classes and I didn't get my instruction from the best teacher either. I know the material and how to shoot. I could use help conveying it to the students at times. I have a buddy from the Marine Corps that has a really good program going out in Southern California. He has a solid customer base and he loves teaching and is good at it all around. Like I said it's a good start.

This. If you are having heartburn with the NRA, join a different gun organization. But, if we don't think unity the democrats are going to eat our lunch and kick sand in our faces.

kwg

Its easy to hop up on a pedestal and squawk about zero compromise and bash the NRA. The truth of the matter is if it wouldn't be for the NRA , they're wouldn't be any gun rights to not compromise on.

Since you were around then, along with me, does the current climate sort of remind you of the way things got just before the “ revolution “ when Harlan Carter fought, and won, to take the organization back, away from the politicians? That’s the reason I never became a Life Member though I’ve sent them more money over the years than a lot of those guys. History has a way of repeating itself.

I’ve been thinking that and wondered if I’m alone in that.

I laugh at you heroes proclaiming you won't pay the NRA to do what you should do yourself.

After you get done building your own house and car (How's that steel furnace coming?) and when you get back from hand-delivering all of your mail, go spend a month lobbying Congress and let us know what you accomplish.

A whole lot of people have a whole lot of excuses for being too cheap to support the organization(s) pivotal to retaining our rights.

And, it's not an either/or choice. Support NRA, GOA, SAF and your state gun rights organization. Support them with >money<, repeatedly. Forget your next rifle, split that up among those four organizations.

And quit being iconoclastic morons about "fight them in court". Just because we are right doesn't mean we are going to win every case. And each case we lose becomes a major new hurdle to overcome. It is way better to block bad legislation than roll the dice in the courts again and again.

I bet it was the NRA that convinced you of that

Great post. Seems close to what I hear about the medial profession. No money in curing.

I'm just tired of the calls begging for money 4-5-6 times a week to my cell phone. Now they are using phones with my area code so it looks legit and local.....I cut em off and tell em I'm driving now, can't talk. I paid up my lifetime membership, donate to their banquets....isn't that enough?

Asking them to put me on their no call list is fruitless...you can almost hear em laughing when I request it.

We have gun rights because politicians swore to uphold the constitution?

We don't have gun rights, if we did we could walk into any store in any state pay for said gun and walk out with it. We have gun privileges, we can purchase a gun in most places your state of residency or neighboring state in someplace, go through a background check and walk out with it. There is a big difference.

Edit to add: we wouldn't need a permit for pistols or concealed carry. Suppressors would be a normal everyday accessory. SBR, SBS would just be another firearm.

How many times has this been brought up about the Campfire and worthless posts by trolls and we have been told we don’t need a moderator, we need to ignore the trolls. The same can be said about the requests for money, ignore them, but if you think the NRA doesn’t need money to fight against the anti-gun crowd, you are mistaken.

They call me too, and I did upgrade to Endowment Life member, but I don’t send money every phone call either...

Didnt listen to this stupid sob. How phuggin old is this prick? Who in the hell holds a serious conversation wearing kids schit? He needs drug outside by his hair and boot stomped until the stupid runs outta him.

Are you sure you don't have a Golden Jacket it that closet of yours?

He is Gay, to him it is totally normal. Look on his wall and kids toys on safe. But that doesn't mean he is totally wrong.

I wouldnt know if hes right or wrong, I dont listen to people I cant take seriously. Dress and act like an adult and ill do my part.

Didnt listen to this stupid sob. How phuggin old is this prick? Who in the hell holds a serious conversation wearing kids schit? He needs drug outside by his hair and boot stomped until the stupid runs outta him.

And this is acting like an adult and doing your part?

It is in my world.

And your world is part of the problem placed on gun owners.

Agree

I think the NRA is owned by the anti-gun lobby. Just look at who they support and what foolish laws they support.

Didn't you hunt with Walt aka Northman? He supports the democrats, and you supported him

Your an amazon fan too right?

If that were true, the NRA would not have sued New York in the case thet the Supreme court just agreed to hear.

I call B.S.

I've been an NRA member since 1975. My wife is a member as are my two sons. add a lot of my friends.

And NEVER have any of us gotten called 4-5-6 times a week. NEVER.

Yeah they send out mailings. But no more than other groups, mail order catalogs, etc.

Don't give them your phone number, email is enough, their email's can be quite informative for things happening, and things not mentioned.

They dont send a single thing or call.

If they quit sending the Magazing it would be fine.

Save that money for real work.



I guess advertisers pay too though.

Welcome to the Federal Plantation. Please leave your Bill of Rights at the door, you are now under the Constitution.

With the SCOUS ruling that reasonable 2nd amendment regulation is just AOK.'
Does that mean freedom of press, speech and religion can be regulated too?

Tha banquets that your are supporting are actually “Friends of NRA” banquets, which is a nonprofit group that raises money for youth events and such. We are not part of the political side of the NRA.

We actually get a call from the NRA every week weekday between 8:00 and 8:30, a.m. No joke! I am a big supporter and a life member, but the constant calls get old. They have a system and it works for them, apparently.

Its so easy even a caveman can do it


https://membership.nrahq.org/privacy.asp

The Constitution can be amended, rewritten, ect. Not the Bill of Rights nor the Articles of Confederation.

I'm still paying on my EPL membership....I am on the fence as to how I will proceed. If I'm completely honest....I'm leaning towards saving my money after the Bumpstock nonsense, and the Red Flag stuff doesn't help....

The Bill of Rights are ammendments, the first 10 to be precise of the Constitution . And yes they can be changed. The Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution.

Im thinking Srap should run for office.

I know who files the lawsuits when govt agencies cross the line and deprive us of our 2A rights, and mostly it isnt the NRA.

https://www.saf.org/2nd-amendment-legal-action/

https://www.saf.org/category/news/

The Bill of Rights is not amendable and the Articles being replaced were fiercely opposed in the late 1700's for the very reason it would give us an over bearing Federal Gov. or possibly another Monarchy. It was one of the first heated debates over States rights. The Bill of Rights used for the beginning of the Constitution was more of an appeasement to those opposing the replacement of the Articles of Confederation. This was the beginning of the fall of the united states. The Constitution then allowed them to add The United States which started the domino effect of toppling the State Citizens. Today there are very very few State Citizens and this group is governed by Common Law and the Bill of Rights. It is the Federal Citizens or more common terminology, United States Citizen, that is governed by Civil Law and the Constitution. One group have rights, ie, inalienable rights, while the other group who now are the majority have privileges.
This subject is starting to come to the surface again and I hope and pray that it does. Lots and lots of old forgotten history and in many cases deleted history that surrounds this subject. The Virginia Co. is in the very center of this. It was/is the very entity that began the domino effect or could be said they were instrumental in the slow take over of the Republic known as the united states and turned it into a Democracy known as The United States which now is a very advanced Socialistic Government.
This take over started in the 1780's and accelerated very quickly from 1830 into 1917. By that point are organic Republic and its citizens of the many states were doomed.

/quote]
With the SCOUS ruling that reasonable 2nd amendment regulation is just AOK.'
Does that mean freedom of press, speech and religion can be regulated too?[/quote]
The Constitution can be amended, rewritten, ect. Not the Bill of Rights nor the Articles of Confederation.[/quote]

The Bill of Rights are ammendments, the first 10 to be precise of the Constitution . And yes they can be changed. The Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution.
[/quote]

The Bill of Rights is not amendable and the Articles being replaced were fiercely opposed in the late 1700's for the very reason it would give us an over bearing Federal Gov. or possibly another Monarchy. It was one of the first heated debates over States rights. The Bill of Rights used for the beginning of the Constitution was more of an appeasement to those opposing the replacement of the Articles of Confederation. This was the beginning of the fall of the united states. The Constitution then allowed them to add The United States which started the domino effect of toppling the State Citizens. Today there are very very few State Citizens and this group is governed by Common Law and the Bill of Rights. It is the Federal Citizens or more common terminology, United States Citizen, that is governed by Civil Law and the Constitution. One group have rights, ie, inalienable rights, while the other group who now are the majority have privileges.
This subject is starting to come to the surface again and I hope and pray that it does. Lots and lots of old forgotten history and in many cases deleted history that surrounds this subject. The Virginia Co. is in the very center of this. It was/is the very entity that began the domino effect or could be said they were instrumental in the slow take over of the Republic known as the united states and turned it into a Democracy known as The United States which now is a very advanced Socialistic Government.
This take over started in the 1780's and accelerated very quickly from 1830 into 1917. By that point are organic Republic and its citizens of the many states were doomed. [/quote]


One of the reasons we the people should know this information is because, George Washington (co chair of the Virginia Co) signed a contract giving the King/Queen of England 20% of all tax money collected under the Corp. United States for the lifetime of the Corporate United States. This was done through the Virginia Co. who Daniel Paysuer, the Crown Prince of France was Chairman of and George Washington was co Chairman. In a nut shell, since the establishment of The United States, 20% of taxes collect from you is funneled through the Federal Reserve Bank of Charlotte NC to the King/Queen of England.