The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has tightened rules on carrying guns in church, barring the practice after long discouraging it, according to the Associated Press.
The new policy was rolled out the first week of August and first distributed to Mormon leaders in Texas, where a new law allows licensed handgun owners to carry their guns in places of worship. But it will be distributed to local leaders in other states as well, according to church spokesman Daniel Woodruff.
“Churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world,” the new policy states. “With the exception of current law enforcement officers, the carrying of lethal weapons on church property, concealed or otherwise, is prohibited.”
The new rules also come after a Mormon church was the site of a shooting in July 2018 in Fallon, Nev., where the shooter opened fire and killed one man and wounded another.
Matthew Bowman, the Howard W. Hunter Chair in Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in California, told the AP the move reflects how the church has changed from its Western roots.
“It is illustrative of the church’s slow evolution away from being a largely Western rural church which it has been for a long, long time toward a more cosmopolitan, international organization,” he said.
A majority of the church’s members currently live outside the U.S., many in nations that do not have a culture of gun ownership like the U.S.
“In any organization, you have people who might desire to protect or take the law into their own hands, and I think the church in this policy is saying, ‘Please don’t. Church is a place of peace,’” Scott Gordon, president of the volunteer organization FairMormon, told the AP.
Please don’t. Church is a place of peace,’” Scott Gordon, president of the volunteer organization FairMormon, told the AP." Accord to reality, apparently not, considering the recent shooting. All they have done is handicap the legal legal use of a gun.
I explained to someone in my church that there is probably 4 guns in our church every Sunday. They could not comprehend that, which I understand because my town is safer than Mayberry. We don't even have an Otis.
My church from when I a kid now has several armed men scattered purposefully through tactical locations every service. It is a conscious plan. About half are off duty cops. Nobody would notice. Another acquaintance is a retired big city detective who served as head of security for a mega church some would recognize. Again, as unobtrusive as possible.
A gun free zone is an invitation. Am frankly astounded at the Mormon announcement.
"The new rules also come after a Mormon church was the site of a shooting in July 2018 in Fallon, Nev., where the shooter opened fire and killed one man and wounded another."
"and I think the church in this policy is saying, ‘Please don’t. Church is a place of peace"
If a shooter tried to shoot up our church, the peace would resume in 10 seconds. The shooter likely wouldn't be resting in peace, however. It would be way too hot for that.
Guess I can never enter... ya know my hands are lethal weapons. Bunch of idiots.
Of course if you believe, then you know the world will end again and that we are a day closer every day, but one would almost have to assume we are further past the halfway mark by a long shot IMHO. Which really is not a bad thing at all. But those that have to live through all of those times....
I think I would carry first and worry about church policy later. I mean, when will it be discovered? Hopefully after the carrier has stopped an active shooter event. Not much to say or do in retaliation for carrying in church after a successful resolution.
We must take bold, comprehensive steps to combat gun violence ! So let's make more places gun free zones. What could go wrong ?
Look at past mass shootings. What percentage were in gun free zones?
Facts don't lie. Those cowards pick easy target rich opportunities, would pick another place if they thought they'd get resistance. They want to create havoc and fear. That atmosphere would be different if the targeted populace started returning fire. Results would be WAY different, IMO.
I think I would carry first and worry about church policy later. I mean, when will it be discovered? Hopefully after the carrier has stopped an active shooter event. Not much to say or do in retaliation for carrying in church after a successful resolution.
Mormons are typically unquestioning rule followers. Prohibited means prohibited.
We must take bold, comprehensive steps to combat gun violence ! So let's make more places gun free zones. What could go wrong ?
Look at past mass shootings. What percentage were in gun free zones?
Facts don't lie. Those cowards pick easy target rich opportunities, would pick another place if they thought they'd get resistance. They want to create havoc and fear. That atmosphere would be different if the targeted populace started returning fire. Results would be WAY different, IMO.
DF
I'm not real computer savvy......... Otherwise I would have had a sarcasm icon on the end of that.
I'm sure that someone stopping a mass-murderer in an LDS temple would get excommunicated . . . not !
You might be surprised.
The Mormon church has been known to turn a blind eye on occasion. Take polygamy for example. They outlawed it a long time ago because congress wouldn't admit Utah as a state until they did. They say they'll excommunicate polygamists but there are lots of them. The church just looks the other way. This is the Utah based church, not one of the fundamental offshoots.
Just adding another 'target-rich' environment... If I was carrying concealed, they'd never know if I had it with me or not... And I WOULD have it with me..
"but I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil"
Seems they are keeping to the theme.
The full context is Mt 5:39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
A slap on the cheek is a serious insult but it's not damaging. It stings but doesn't hurt you. Jesus is saying that if you're insulted, walk away. He isn't talking about self defense.
We must take bold, comprehensive steps to combat gun violence ! So let's make more places gun free zones. What could go wrong ?
Look at past mass shootings. What percentage were in gun free zones?
Facts don't lie. Those cowards pick easy target rich opportunities, would pick another place if they thought they'd get resistance. They want to create havoc and fear. That atmosphere would be different if the targeted populace started returning fire. Results would be WAY different, IMO.
DF
They always hit the soft targets, just as Mandela did when he was hitting churches and schools. Anyone that has been on the tactical side in the military knows how to harden a target.
I'm sure that someone stopping a mass-murderer in an LDS temple would get excommunicated . . . not !
You might be surprised.
The Mormon church has been known to turn a blind eye on occasion. Take polygamy for example. They outlawed it a long time ago because congress wouldn't admit Utah as a state until they did. They say they'll excommunicate polygamists but there are lots of them. The church just looks the other way. This is the Utah based church, not one of the fundamental offshoots.
Ya reckon they consider packing worse than polygamy?
Don't think I could afford a second wife, must less a third or a fourth..
Doubt I’ll ever be inside an LDS house of worship, unless I mistake it for a steakhouse since they’re all designed to look like a fancy Sizzler, but if I am I damn sure will be armed.
....unlike the pioneers that were slaughtered at Mountain Meadows, who I bet wished that this policy had been in force at the time. 😬
Didn't Jesus whip some ass when it needed whipping, money changers or the like? Why would He have a problem with a follower defending the faithful against someone with horrible intent?
Didn't Jesus whip some ass when it needed whipping, money changers or the like? Why would He have a problem with a follower defending the faithful against someone with horrible intent?
Yep, platted a whip, a definite assault weapon, surely not defensive.
And, he did kick some serious arse, turned over tables, went ballistic. And it worked; he got their attention...
Doubt I’ll ever be inside an LDS house of worship, unless I mistake it for a steakhouse since they’re all designed to look like a fancy Sizzler, but if I am I damn sure will be armed.
....unlike the pioneers that were slaughtered at Mountain Meadows, who I bet wished that this policy had been in force at the time. 😬
Doubt I’ll ever be inside an LDS house of worship, unless I mistake it for a steakhouse since they’re all designed to look like a fancy Sizzler, but if I am I damn sure will be armed. ....unlike the pioneers that were slaughtered at Mountain Meadows, who I bet wished that this policy had been in force at the time. 😬
You don't understand. It was ok to kill them. They were Methodists and had a big herd of cattle and a good bit of money with them.
It seems if a member of the congregation had to pop a cap then the place of peace thing was already out the window at that point.
If they feel that way, you know they aren't going to instruct people to stay down if the shooting starts. Someone walks through the door shooting and someone with a gun jumps up between the good guy and the bad guy, they are liable to get shot. Some preachers don't take to an education and appreciate it. At least not in our church. I brought that up to him and he just looked at me. They apparently have no plan and are good with that. Personally that doesn't sit will with me, but I don't go to that church. I think they are inviting trouble. Just what they need is another gun free zone for the loonies to focus in on.
Here in Idaho, I suspect there are several guns in each service, including mine.
Yeah, where I attend church there is a security plan. They don't talk about it, but I've heard a whisper or two from some buds, well represented by U.S. Marshals, State Police, Sheriffs, etc., some retired, some not.
They kinda know the drill if you get my drift... There would be some returned fire pretty quick. As they say, when seconds count, the police are minutes away... I think things would already be heated up before the police arrived.
They will learn, just like everyone else has learned (or refused to learn) that when you declare your space "gun free" bad men with guns will come and shoot you.
Doubt I’ll ever be inside an LDS house of worship, unless I mistake it for a steakhouse since they’re all designed to look like a fancy Sizzler, but if I am I damn sure will be armed.
....unlike the pioneers that were slaughtered at Mountain Meadows, who I bet wished that this policy had been in force at the time. 😬
I was carrying at my grandmother's funeral. By Ohio law, the head of the church must KNOW and approve, or I have broken a law just by carrying inside a house of worship. I asked the minister thier views on concealed carry, and was told that there are at least 2 in the congregation most days. I mentioned the fact that they must know and approve for it to be legal, and I too have a CCW. The stole came out, and i was blessed on the spot. Permission granted.
If you have lived in the northwest for very long. and know very many Mormons, you know its more of a problem "if you show me yours, Ill show you mine". Taking their roscoes out during church meetings etc.
If you don't think they cant deal with violence, check out history, Johnson's Army,, Porter Rockwell, Morman Militia, J. Smith role in Federal government on death of US president, why the lower states in the west have such straight borders etc.The 3 military bases along the wasatch front aren't there to take up space.
Their church is also international, hard to tell the ramifications from that side.
I refuse to go anywhere that I can't protect myself.
Me too but I don’t let company policy dictate where or when I’m allowed to exercise my Constitutional rights. Nobody knows I carry except my family and close friends but they carry too 😁 so it’s highly unlikely that anyone would ever know I’m carrying until I’ve used it to stop some crazed maniac. If, by some off chance it was discovered I was carrying against store policy and I’m asked to leave then I’ll quietly and not so politely...leave. Mine and my family’s life is more important than some stupid and likely illegal policy, so I’m willing to place my trust in Sig Sauer and everyone else including the store policy can kiss my redneck ass. My CCW will only be used to protect myself, my family and other innocent victims should some dorky and awkward millennial decide to seek internet immortality, otherwise it stays concealed. Same goes for my wife, she carries everywhere she goes and I’d not want to be in her sights because she’s very competent and accurate with her Model 36. 😉. I think the amount of shooting and practice that my family does gives us a sense of security and the satisfaction of knowing that we’re comfortable, competent and aware of the responsibility that comes with carrying a firearm. Our oldest qualified Expert in the USMC every time with rifle and pistol. Our middle son and our daughter shoot a lot and are capable of running all common weapons whether it’s a bolt, semi, revolver, rifle and pistol.....they are also not someone that I’d want to be in front of because they are extremely accurate with everything I throw at them. Our daughter broke 23 targets shooting trap the first time and has never shot less than 20 out of 25 when we shoot trap......that’s using my 28” Browning Gold Hunter that doesn’t fit her, I can’t imagine how good she’d do with a shotgun that fits her. All the shotgun training we’ve done up until a few months ago has been home defense training with an 18.5” Mossberg and buckshot. My daughter really got into shooting trap and will be doing a lot of duck hunting with dad and his buddy. 😉
My Constitutional rights supersede stupid, cover your ass policies and I don’t GAF who likes it. Until they start issuing permits to exercise ones first amendment rights then I’ll continue to act as though I’m a free man and I’ll apologize to no one. 🖕
I'd rather carry so i can make it to the church and while i am in the church i will be able to protect myself and other. I hope people aren't listening to pastors and popes on this one, these people are not God and they don't have the power to redeem anyone's soul.
I called for a welfare check on a couple of family members after reading this..... Thanksgiving dinner will be animated this year!
The church has been making decisions lately that are alienating a LOT of the old faithful. Enough that I've been wondering if there isn't enough tinder there to start a serious split.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Didn't Jesus whip some ass when it needed whipping, money changers or the like? Why would He have a problem with a follower defending the faithful against someone with horrible intent?
Yep, platted a whip, a definite assault weapon, surely not defensive.
And, he did kick some serious arse, turned over tables, went ballistic. And it worked; he got their attention...
DF
Nothing in scripture indicates that Jesus actually struck anyone with the whip, chances are he just intimidated/drove the money lenders who surely knew what a whip could do to them.
And Jesus wasnt 'carrying'...he had to go to the trouble of assembling a whip.
yet some folks seem to think he was an Indiana Jones...
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
I ain't turnin' my back on you and I sure as hell ain't pickin' up the soap............
I knew a Mormon, that guy loved guns and hunting. I bet that didn’t set good with him
I'm sure it doesn't sit well with many. I was the only non-Mormon in a machine shop. They like thier guns, and we would often go shooting together as a group.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
I'll do just that. Then, it's my turn and it won't be a slap. It'll be one serious ass whuppin'. ou dumb jackass. Paul B.
I knew a Mormon, that guy loved guns and hunting. I bet that didn’t set good with him
My first wife was LDS so are the kids we had. After the divorce I was allowed no say in their upbringing. Just pat the support and and alimony.
Nonetheless, after many years I got se see my kids after they'd reached adulthood. My daughter now lives in Utah and a few years back my late wife and I had gone up to visit. They threw a get together for us and the women were one one side of the room doing girl talk and us guys on the other doing guy talk. The conversation quickly turned to guns and those guys knew their stuff. One interesting thing about LDS and this came from the man who was my father in law the church believed every man (church member) should be armed. I know the guys I met in Utah sure believed in that. I find it very strange that the leaders of the church would now take that stand. Paul B.
The Mormon church is no longer dominated by white western Americans. There are now more members in other countries (think poor, third world) than in the U.S. Their values have changed to reflect their tithe payers. Follow the money.
Lots and lots of Mormans around these parts. Probably the biggest religion in SW Idaho. The ones I know sure as heck never heard that sport hunting was discouraged by church doctrine.
Unless, perhaps, sport hunting is different than subsistence hunting. Because these guys are serious about filling the freezer.
"If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one"
Yes , I think He would.
Jesus didn't need a weapon. He came to die but no power on earth could kill him until it was time. He could have called on 10,000 angels if need be. He did, however, instruct his followers to arm themselves.
Jesus didn't need a weapon. He came to die but no power on earth could kill him until it was time. He could have called on 10,000 angels if need be. He did, however, instruct his followers to arm themselves.
But did he suggest appropriate mindset and training to compliment caring a sword? ..
ie; ...men carrying are like men wearing pants its expected, but good men? [Magnificent Seven ]
lets remember everyone deserted Jesus and fled for their own safety. (Mark 14:50)
what good are swords in the hands of show pony cowards?
