Did some reading a while back after reading about Harley Davidsons future business plans - things are changing at a fast pace with the younger generation . Happened across an article/blog saying that things like the rock climbing walls in shopping malls were mostly gone - other stuff due to lack of interest etc. .
I know quite a few lads from 35 years old down to 20 years olds and basically none of them have any interest in nice rifles - firearms in general - one has an AK-47 the other M1A that his Dad gave him .
I'm in two leases and the number of youths has dropped off a lot in the last ten years - Dads say their kids just aren't interested in anything outdoors . The ones that do come live on their phone the whole time - 9-10 years old on a phone constantly - no interest in hunting or gun talk .

That leads me to believe that many will inherit firearms or dad/grandad will try to sell them off and all of us ''mature'' guys will be full up on guns . That will lead to a huge surplus of unwanted firearms .
You reckon ?

My boy is 31, he loves hunting, but doesn’t have great interest in nice or old rifles.

Trade in 5 of your grampie's rifles and get a new i-phone X

I'll take my chances on other types of investments lol. My rifles, shotguns, handguns are consumables and I plan on wearing them out. But seriously, I don't think you can make a very good argument for guns as investments on average. We've all made money buying low and selling high on them, but overall they are not what I would consider sound investments. Please feel free to disagree as just my opinion.

As long as everyone thinks that the tulip bulbs will keep increasing in value, everything is fine. The key is to get out before everyone wakes up.

Gun collections will only have value if it contains the right guns......and don't ask me what they are as I have no clue nor does anyone I know have a clue.

Clue: they will not be what you have.

i think they have been excellent investment, if bought right.
i do know this, the price appreciation on a whole bunch of guns has gone way up.
a model 28 smith maybe 200bucks some years ago, try getting one for that now.
as to the younger generation, had a four year old out couple of months ago, with help he fired a .22rifle, then a sig p320, then an ar15.
then he went in the gun room to pick out the ones he felt belonged to him.
he was pretty much on target, not realizing there was stuff set aside for him.

It varies, I’m 34 and love the older blue n walnut classics. Savage 99s, marling levers, auto 5s, Remington pre ww2 pumps. Just ordered a new Winchester 1885 single shot. Know several others my age that in to the same thing and live to be outdoors. Problem is there so many distractions between work and a family, plus all the new age men and women. Everybody watches that crap with the kardahians and all that junk. Nobody has real friends. They can do it on their phone like the OP said. I’ll take 10 friends to do things with and tip one back as opposed to hours on the social media junk.

YMMV
David

I never bought any as investments. I bought them for me to use and enjoy and couldn't care less about their value when I'm no longer able to do so.

Again, eventually, timing becomes the key.

Some types of gun prices are generation driven, some are politically driven. Then there's the economy.

I wanted to sell some this year, didn't seem like the best time, next year might be worse. ??????????????????

A volatile market for sure, who's to figure it out??

see how much you can get selling a svt40 for these days vs. a $250 dollar purchase price.

If you sell now, it was a very good investment.

^^^^^This^^^^^ although I see the long term prospects as bleak for blued and wood with probably little appreciation and possibly a decline. On the other hand cheap chitt will still be chitt and not worth anything.

Stock Market, Gold, Home(sometimes) that is an investment

I think you're better off flipping guns short term. Buy AR's when they're cheap (now). Sell them when they're expensive (Democrats in power). I've bought Colt 6920's for as low as $650 and sold them for as much as $2,700.00 during the height of one of the panics.
You want an investment buy real estate.

Beanie Babies, Pound Puppies.

"If bought right". That is the key. Guns never really appreciate, relatively, other than the black gun liberal scares.

All I have are wore out old clunkers.

Oh yeah and guns that require a rock to make them work. How crazy is that!

Clunkers!!!!

Silicon Valley executives tend not to allow their kids to have handheld electronics. They know it ruins kids.

Holy shades of momma and her two sisters! God bless em

markets go up and markets go down.

lot's of youngsters don't even drive anymore.

they depend upon uber drivers and competitors.

downsized senior housing costs more than old housing.

in 2024, what will gov't offer for good quality assault guns?

my son, age 39 tells me to hold onto mine. not to sell any of them.

Depends on which market. I made a killing on crap AKs, used ARs and a couple of FALs after Obammy was elected. A Norinco AK w/ 3 chink mags would gain $2000.00 from the scared and desperate.


mike r

OY!

Sell me your minty, safe queen Winchester Pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight 7x57 or 30.06 - I'm offering $400 and that offer will be good in 10 years....

A friend has 30+ Weatherby Mark V's the majority in brand new condition some still new in the box . Some dating back to the early 60's - high grade models etc. etc. .
I was talking to him a while back about this topic - he said i ruined his day by giving him the opinion that the rifles might be a flop money-wise . Lots of big caliber stuff 340 -378 - 460 etc. some smaller stuff too .
He has it in his head that those rifles are the absolute best and most sought after rifle ever built and that they're worth a fortune . Me i'm not so sure about that .
He has pushed me to get rid of those Remingtons and he'd find me a good rifle through his connections .

I was offered $750 for a case of 223 I had during those times. I figured if things were that bad I better keep it. It's worth about $300 now. Timing and BS politics are the driver.
If we had a crystal ball, we'd all be millionaires.

From the ninja w/ a cheap .22, you and starfish are the masters of defense. SNORK


mike r

Yea I started a year ago selling some investment guns...the newer generation has zero appritation for them...I'm having a hard time letting go tho.
Did my first gunsho last winter and all the younger crowd turned there noses up at my winchesters. I took a 92 in 32-20 that still has case color on the receiver...nobody under about 60 years old even noticed it...didn't get it sold but I did get the 1895 takedown sold along with some others...

Lol...if you had invested that same money "pre 64", you'd be way, way ahead.

One of the reasons for a decline is the loss of hunting lands.

A best friend and I have talked about this very subject many times. We both have a number of vintage LC Smiths, pre-64’s etc. Our children all love hunting but gravitate towards Benellis, Berettas for bird hunting and fiberglass stocked hyper accurate rifles for deer hunting. When me and my buddy cross the river for our happy hunting grounds they’ll all be fighting for my Jarrett, Carolina Precision rifles, AR’s and such. My 1931 LC quail gun will probably hit the pawn shop, as will my 16 and 12 LC’s. My 1886 33 WCF? Gone probably.

I hope our son and his buddies learn to appreciate the mystique and cool factor of my old stuff. He’s gradually coming around though now that he’s hit 30....thank God

Those 60 year olds buyers are going to run out of ''need'' you better hurry .

Same financial bubble that's about to 'pop' for 1960's muscle cars will hit rifle collections, too. IMO.

On that day about 30 years ago, that I went all in collecting pre 64 Winchesters, it became a virtual certainty that they would eventually be worth less than I paid for them. That's just the way I roll! Anybody looking for a 28 gauge Model 12 with a solid rib? Ha!

it's an issue or reality of supply and demand.

people have to have space to keep muscle cars, boats, guns, etc.

i don't want to sell any of my guns. i want to buy more. but as an investment?

they have value as to something to pull out of the case and wipe down. but what else?

I have owned many, many rifles, shotguns and handguns but never bought even one of them as a financial investment. Every one was bought because I liked it, saw a purpose for it, looked forward to getting it to perform great, and knew I would eventually sell it if it did not meet performance expectations. Even the pretty looking and well-known desirable ones. It has been big fun, especially the reloading and load development along with just plain shooting/hunting, and I still have a bunch of good ones. Very useful and enjoyable tools.

Certain factors caused me to begin selling them a couple of years ago. I have worked at it rather assiduously – and I have sold a bunch. More will be sold. My unanticipated experience has been that they were good investments – nice gains over prices of purchase – adjusting for inflation too. And, these ALL have been wood and blued steel models – well, a few were stainless steel.

I never have liked non-wood stocks and am not a big lover of semi-auto stuff, but do have one excellent AR type and one ceracoated barrel/action in a synthetic stock – because I needed the rifle ready to go and did not have time to make or fit a wooden stock. I do wonder what those would bring in today.

Ouch.

Collecting another subject??

I see how a lot of things have changed with the next generation.. and it's not really their fault.. 40-50 years ago gunshops were a hangout where kids with interest could learn about guns. Gun magazines had jack O, keith,and skeeter. Manufactures made guns with pride. Table holders at gun shows were eager to teach history of guns and foster interest.. schools taught history,and encouraged junior rifle and shotgun shooting. And has been pointed out public hunting land was more available. So now in this age kids don't know anything about history. Manufactures are making mostly junk,compared with what we had. Gunshow folks are only interested in selling. Small gunshops are mostly gone. Folks at cabelas don't know a damn thing about guns or the history of.. so my grandson won't have the opportunity that I have, so I'm not concerned about selling.. you will never be able to replace it.

The demographic pool of old white guys with disposable income who revered workmanship in blued steel and walnut is shrinking at an alarming rate. If you doubt me, look at the inventory in Sportsmans Whse, Cabelas, Scheels etc etc. Stainless, plastic or just plain black pot metal...feeding the mass market. Unless you are holding a museum quality piece, I'm afraid the market won't even keep pace with inflation. For an average attractive, hunted but well maintained sporting gun, if you acquired it 20 years ago, I think in this market you'll be lucky to break even. Some old, well made revolvers are still holding up but fine side by side shotguns and rifles languish waiting for loving homes.

My three sons like guns. They were never bought as an investment but they have done pretty well but will be little sold.

It's all in how you look at things. Some guys love nice fast cars and trucks. Other love well crafted guns. Me? I'm too practical, I guess. I look at both cars and guns as tools. I want one that will hold up and get the job done well but I'm not out for pretty.

I've never bought as an investment. I have bought quite a few with the idea that I'm buying at a price I know I can use the gun and sell it for what I paid at virtually any time. I'll have more leftover funds when I'm done vs. racing cars, drinking in bars, or following a college or pro sports team live.

I'd have to say your buddy will be in for a shock. He's bought into a bill of sale, that isn't true. I'd bet good money he couldn't get his investment out of them, much less having gone up in value. Very few guns have gone up in value and I can tell you for a fact they are good clean used guns that were manufactured better than they are being manufactured today. Apparently some of you have given up on gun shows, because those older guns people are trying to sell, and were counting on them having gone up in value to help with their retirement. I'm thinking that many of the older guns at those shows haven't even been shot in 10 years, yet they still aren't worth, what was anticipated.
I'd wager again, that the majority of folks at the gun shows can't get what they have into the majority of those guns. They will be lucky of they don't lose a lot. But the longer they wait, the harder it will be to get any money out of them. Especially the older Winchesters.
Guns that are priced substantially lower than people think they are worth, have a chance of selling because there are still guys out there that think they can make some money out of them. They will be surprised to find out they can't.
Young people not only don't know anything about guns, their taste in guns is the same as the amount of money they have and that's very little. Manufacturers have figured that out, and have adjusted. and are letting the accountants design the guns. Long guns are taking the biggest hit at this point, but handguns will be following soon. As time goes on, it's going to get worse. Count on it. I didn't buy my guns as investments, but I certainly didn't expect to take a big hit when it's time to down size, because I'm getting to old to use many of them.

It’s art. You by a Holland and Holland or Winchester or any great artisan gun creator and hold on it could be worth tremendous money worldwide.

I've never thought of a gun as an investment. In today's world, it could be a disaster to tie up you life's savings in guns if the wrong folks (read:idiots) get into power and start passing draconian gun laws worse than we already have. With a stroke of a pen they could make it almost impossible to transfer a weapon in a sale without huge read tape and huge transfer fees. They could also make guns too expensive to own for the average person unless you already own them. We know any market can be fickle and guns are no exception. I buy guns because I like them, and it pisses off Leftist pukes.

Only old guns that are in VERY GOOD condition will have much chance of going up in value. 😉

Historical value is placed on good specimens with provenance.

Old Colts and Winchester’s are never likely to be cheaper than they are today.

I suck at Capitalism, I’d not sell a gun to a fellow gun enthusiast for more than I thought it was worth.

Birdwatcher

Still broke and full of misplaced loyalties

Same here. I have a lot of custom guns that will sell for less than I have in them, but I invest elsewhere. My guns are for fun.

A gun enthusiast would already have the guns of his choice so would not have to buy in a seller's market. You do suck at capitalism.


mike r

Its a piss poor plan.


Especially if you are like me and will never sell anything.

Or, if you plan on buying and selling all the time....you have no soul and are probably a Mason.

Haha!!!

the highest value of a rifle or shotgun for me, is the hunts I've been on with it, the other hunters, and the places we went.

family guns go to the top.

just me. more power to folks who buy and sell, or sell and hold.

hope I can pass a few on to those who will care as much about them as I do/did.

Sycamore

Depends on what you want out of your investment.

Don’t know about long term investment for run of the mill guns. Maybe old Colt SA’s or high end doubles type stuff. I’d guess kids in 50’s were interested in the new shiny stuff at the store and not their grandads front stuffer.

I reckon as flips it’s not bad. There’s always somebody just tired of something that wants something else...and you can make a quick few bucks, which turns into another. Then another.

If you buy them right, turn them in less than 2 years...maybe a decent investment. But not an investment in the long run. I only buy a rifle if I can sell it for 20% more if I grow tired of it.

When it comes to guns, I'm more of a collector/user than an investor. But, I do notice that the guns I like to shoot and tend to collect have been going up in value. I guess that's just a lucky sidebar. Doesn't really affect me one way or the other, though.

I had a few because I loved them, but then, the boating accident, followed by the flooded basement, and that pesky wood boring worm that took up residence in the gunsafe. After the thieves got most of the rest of them the fire finished them off.

I invest in me getting the experience running the different guns to see what works for me and what doesn’t - does that count ?

Owned just about every automatic shotgun made over the years...

My 11 year old is a bit unusual in that he loves old traditional stuff. He would would much rather have and old smoke pole than a tactical gun. He looks past the plastic stuff to check out the older guns. He is already very familiar with our guns, and I expect that he will keep as many of them as he can.

My guess is, the old collectible stuff will decline in value. Younger folks don’t have an appreciation for them. In their defense, how can you appreciate something that you have no experience with? Young folks didn’t grow up with old bird hunters and their side by sides, like many if us did. Bummer for them!!!!

No such investment is worth anything until the day that it is sold.

Mine have never and will never be investments.

I've never really looked at mine as investments, although I suppose they are worth a little money. The rare firearms will always be worth some money, and if you're a collector of say, 1873 Winchesters, then your rifles will always have value to them. On the flip side, if you bought some AR's years back when they were fetching a premium, and you want to sell them now, you're going to lose money.

As an example, my late brother had a nice gun collection, and when he knew he was dying from cancer, he told his wife that it was his wish to use the guns to help send his grandkids to college. My ex-sister-in-law contacted me recently about helping her sell some of them, and I agreed to do so. She had gotten a neighbor, an "internet expert" to look up some prices on some of them, and of course the fool went on Gunbroker and looked up some of the prices on guns that someone is hoping to sell for more than it's worth. When I told her that her $1200-1500 rifle is only worth $500 today, she must have thought I was lowballing her, because I haven't heard back from her.

The thing that a lot of people don't get is that while some guns hold their value, and even increase, others do not, and with this being a buyers market today, many sellers are disappointed when they try to unload theirs.

People who weren’t gun enthusiasts paid $2,000 for Norincos? Naah, you price-gouged ‘em and then bragged on it here. No worries, you prob’ly didn’t need ‘em as repeat customers.

Birdwatcher
On track to become the most principled guy living under the bridge.

you can only price....gouged em…...if they let you......little old ladies excepted...….bob

Closest I myself ever got to collecting was when Enfield were a dime a dozen. I believe I had six at one time, and a Webley, all chosen with respect to places of origin and dates of manufacture that invoked bygone theaters of war.

Over time I discovered tho that if I wasn’t gonna be shooting a gun I didn’t have much use for it so sold/gave/traded ‘em away.

My worst offense has certainly been a British 200 yo 1/2 gallon brass trade kettle I haul around and set out with my reenacting gear. It’s considerably more beat-up now that it was for the first 194 years

Yep. Same with '60s era muscle cars. In about 15 years, they will get cheap. Pre '64 Winchesters with nice wood will be in the used gun racks. Young dudes who have served in the military want black rifles first, then maybe one bolt gun and a side arm or two.

Laffin' here.
Mr. "Principle".
You know , that guy that is still telling students, co-workers and fellow homeless people on Salvation Army free hot dog nite, how he pedaled and toiled all over the west last summer.......


Did you have a stationary bike in the motor home you toured in?

On guns you set a price and you sell it...unless it's not selling...then you lower it, trade it or keep it.
Auctions, if you can put up with the hassles, seem fair to me.

Sorta like adultery I guess.

To paraphrase Rob Roy; integrity is a gift a man gives to himself People just have different standards of what that is, is all.

Birdwatcher
who’s gonna bore the crap out of everyone down at the mission.

Naah you must recall I only rode across West Texas to the NM State Line, hung a right outside of Hatch, and ended up helping a friend drive home to Montana when they asked.

So, ended up with a paltry 1,250 miles. Disappointing really, but now I get to try again.



The BEST part about motor homes and stuff? You get to take all of them with you when you die

See? I’m boring the crap out of people already 🙂

my 22 year old reminded me yesterday that I promised to take him shooting

gonna have to set that up next week

Do I think my firearms will be better than the Leman brothers stock I own. I sure hope so. If you buy quality at a reasonable price I don’t think you will get hurt. Now if your buying Glocks and Savage you will be lucky to get your money back. Nobody can see into the future. But quality usually holds its value and may even increase if your are lucky. It’s not like coin collecting you can do more than look at a firearm. Hasbeen

My kids aren't interested in my firearms, so I'm planning to sell the majority of them while I can still enjoy spending the revenue for other stuff.

Related to other post on this.

I sure as fugg aint educating some inheritance baby riding on a dead relatives coat tail about the value of gun they have no interest in at all, other than selling it and making a quick buck off it.

Espically if ya read them up front.

I will use the gun.
And if I can pick it up for a very reduced price I wont feel the least bit bad about it.

I will treat a person that knows firearms with respect and let the negotiation on price begin.

I will treat a chump like a chump.
Especially Inheritance baby types with no interest in firearms other than making money off it.
I bet the dead relative would rather see their firearm used by someone who will utilize it and take care of it.
I bet the dead relative would be pissed the inheritance baby was ready to sell the moment they got the firearm in their greedy dickbeaters also.


JMO.......

"The ones that do come live on their phone the whole time - 9-10 years old on a phone constantly - no interest in hunting or gun talk ."

That sums it up. These Millennials all have joined the cult, their religion is the Iphone. In general they have no interest in hunting or camping.
The future of guns is bleak, and this includes the Second Amendment.

Yep, and we were very blessed being born when we were.

I remember our pm conversation about this.
Tell her to suck an egg and go find her end of the rainbow buyer.

I hope you charged her full price for her share of the bush hogging bill also.

I would take an approach to her dealing with anything money wise.
With her same greedy top dollar mindset.

Her true colors are showing , family or not......

I'd invest for a profit, and buy toys for fun.

Was just saying the same about hunting here in Idaho. While animal numbers are still good, there are so many people after the tags that drawing a decent tag has nearly become a joke.........and hunting in general seasons is a joke.

Anybody checked out the prices on some 1980’s era BMX bikes?

Kids bikes from 30-40 years ago are selling for some decent coin these days.

Pokémon cards guys - LOL

Pretty well my take on it as well


Lotsa .22 ammo, 9mm etc. there’s the investment. Why I’ve read in doomsday scenarios you can get 2 cans of pork and beans for 50 rds of .22

And a woman for a can of beans

Well fed, well bred, what else could you want outa life ?

I'm knee deep in commercial real estate, mostly raw land, not income producing. But, it's in the right spot(s). Moving that type property depends on the local economy and what's happening. Not always a sure thing. But you must buy it right, hold it until the timing is right. Bad part, you don't control the timing.

Generally, real estate can be pretty good if you're not in a hurry, don't depend on moving it for your next meal...

DF

and you'll continue to sleep on a cot.

anybody remember those 65dollar swedish mausers? or the 70dollar schmidt rubins? or the 60dollar sks's? or the 220 dollar sig p-6's?
or the mosins at the 50 dollar price or the turkish mausers?
and i could go on.
I would hazzard a guess all could be sold rather easily at a price higher than acquired at.
I periodically get requests, unsolicited, to sell WWII 1911's or garands or carbines.
That 250bucks i paid for a WWII 1911, how many would turn down a deal to buy one at 400 bucks or so?

few years ago, a certain m1a with ammo and mags came out of commiefornia. I wasn't connected to it, but knew about it. It sold locally for about 2500bucks as i was told.
It all goes back to what you paid for it. As to you made a good deal or not.

I worry about my 6 year old son, he shows no intrest, I took the boys out shooting this summer for the first time with a .22, 7 year old was all over it and really enjoyed it, 6 year old was afraid if he hit the sky he would kill God. 7 year old see's a deer, elk, whatever and is convinced my mom can make the whole thing into tacos.
Then there is my 4 year old daughter, we saw a beautiful mule deer buck on the way to town the other day, and she was sure it was yummy, then saw an owl, I pulled over to show her the owl because you just don't see them that often, and her response was "Can we eat it? Does it taste good?" Same little girl chants "Black Cows Matter" when we drive by the neighbors Angus herd"., My grandfather would roll over in his grave.

as previously mentioned, took my four year old great grandson shooting a month or so ago.
when we got back he was in the gun room marking his territory on the ones he wanted.
i don't have any worries. Little does he know things are already set aside for him.
did the same thing for his father at about the same age.

You equate ignorance and poverty w/ integrity, how Gandhiesque. Gandhi drank his own urine and wore a diaper and also knew little about capitalism. You are a student of history yet don't remember the panic following Obammy's 1st election and the market demand for "assault" type rifles? I was employed by a gun store/range that quickly ran out of defense capable pistols and rifles. The owner begged the employees to sell their surplus items to help w/ customer demand. Customers would have bidding wars on the sales floor to be able to purchase these items.

Six months prior to this all guns were readily available and the market was brisk and the prices higher than today, the same w/ ammunition. Then things changed and the relative value sky rocketed and those that paid the new market price were ecstatic to acquire what they wanted. Supply and demand is a simple concept.

The topic was the value of guns as an investment not how being a broke dick leads to enlightenment.

Most of the seious shooters that I know remember those times and have planned accordingly and will not get caught short again. I would guess that more than a few of the members here think that 10k rounds of ammo is a good start.


YMMV


mike r

If you buy a GOOD competition shotgun (not some whiz-bang Benelli type) new in a gun shop, it loses 20% of its value when you carry it out the door. It loses 10% more when you fire one shell out of it. You will have to keep it (in mint condition) for 10 years to hope to break even.

And Heaven help you should you replace a screw or something.

I worked out some time ago that anything I am interested in purchasing will accrue in value whilst anything I actually have won't be worth anything, so I decided to buy what interests me and hang the consequences.

Someone else can worry about the value.


Beats me why everyone around where I live has a hard-on for plastic and stainless, but that is their problem and I have mine own to work through.

[/quote]
Laffin' here.
Mr. "Principle".
You know , that guy that is still telling students, co-workers and fellow homeless people on Salvation Army free hot dog nite, how he pedaled and toiled all over the west last summer.......

Did you have a stationary bike in the motor home you toured in?
[/quote]

Leave the man alone. At least he rode his bicycle some hundreds if not a thousand miles or more while many of us sat on the couch and tapped away on our keyboards.

Seems like he can take care of himself, but two things: 1) he stands up for what he believes in although it might not fit just right with some on this board, and 2) he isn't alone in being a doer and, probably, a bit of a dreamer too.

Give him credit for what he says and does, I do, or just keep to yourself. I believe that having dreams and executing against them are among the factors in what makes a man, and BW seems to me to be consistent and worthy in this regard, even if I may differ from him in my own objectives.

Guns are a lousy investment, IMHO, simply because it takes a lot of effort to sell them.

I inherited about 100 of them and decided to sell about 80 plus the ones I already had and would never shoot any more. To do that I had to go to a lot of gun shows. I averaged 10% less than Fjested's said was the "going" price. I later sold some to friends and a dealeer and got less than that. Selling themm is one at a time.

If you have a lot of stock, by contrast, one phone call gets all the proceeds put in your checking account the next day.

Besides, gun prices are fickle based on trends. In the late 1950s, 19th century guns could be picked up for a song. Then the westerns hit TV and gthe Civil War centennial happened. Prices went up. Now everyone wants "tacticool" junk. Harder tio fiind buyers for a Model 70.

I'll probably still be waiting 10 years from now for any money from her. I may just sell a few walnut trees from that particular piece of property, and call it even.....lol.

The problem with figuring out the value of a firearm is that any person who ever got a cap pistol or a BB gun for Christmas when they were a kid, becomes an "expert" later on in life, and knows everything there is to know about guns. I'll never forget the time a man asked me $1000 for a beat up 1895 Mauser, that appeared to have been tied behind a car and hauled down a gravel road. The man said he had been told by a friend who as an "expert" on guns, that the rifle was a rare collectors item. He truly believed it was too. I didn't want to burst his bubble, so I just walked away.

I had a gun dealer friend tell me you make money when you buy the gun. Now with the internet and auctions, you can occasionally make money on the sell end if two or more bidders go nuts over a particular gun.

It's like any other investment- Managed well it pays off- Managed poorly, it is a disaster.

For the short term, buying needs to be done when the market is soft (now vs October 2016). Some guns may stagnate in value, some never lose their value (Merkel 88 in .500 NE, or a Holland & Holland double).

Others will never increase in value, long or short term, examples being the crap that Hi-Point or Jiminez puts out.

Same thing happened to me when a buddy passed away, and his wife asked me about disposing of his guns. He had some decent guns, but they all had plenty of 'character', too. I got with a dealer friend and he worked out a fair and decent set of prices for her, on the transferable stuff (he had some class 3 stuff, too). She'd been talking to her FIL, and had a very exaggerated idea of what they were worth. She ran us off, and hasn't been in contact since. It doesn't hurt my feelings any, as I didn't like her much, anyway.

A cot? You get to sleep on a COT?

I sleep on the floor so I don't forget how, tile floor on a heavy cotton painter's tarp by an open window. Wool blanket season is creeping up. Every morning I get to practice getting up off the ground without handholds. No small thing for us old guys.

The biggest downside to my present situation is scrambling to leave something behind for my son and his daughter.

If'n I don't make to age 70 they get more'n a half-million dollars, if I do, he gets my house and prob'ly a used truck for sure, plus I contribute to his 401K.

All without gouging folks in time of panic.

No, I equate integrity with integrity, financial status unimportant depending on how ya got it.

I've lived among true poverty for a period of years of my life, what I'm in ain't it, not even close. How I got where I am now is assuming a bunch of debt with half the income (coolest part has been watching my credit rating climb through the roof over these past few years )

I am particular about how I accumulate property, it ain't worth it to me to price gouge, fer example.

IMHO you bragged on gouging, but have now submitted a bunch of qualifiers, OK.

Hey tks for the kind words.

Good reminder, Ron. In 1962 I bought my first rifle through the Sears catalog for $13.95. It is a M95 Chilean Mauser and I bagged Mule and Coues deer with it for years in AZ
I will keep it as long as I live - period.

Bought a M96 Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 for $50 a couple of years later, and it had a Weaver 4x scope on it. Fabulous cartridge - that design is over 100 years old and its performance stays up with the modern fancy-named stuff.

Eddystone Enfield in 30:06 for $25 and a nicely "sporterized" Rock Island Springfield with Redfield scope for $50 when I lived in Tempe - the Phoenix newspaper classifieds were a treasure trove in the 60s. There were some good old days.

I doubt most guns have kept prices with inflation. My understanding is that in the late 30's Model 70s sold for about $120, running it through the inflation calculator that's about $2100 today. The notable exceptions are probably going to be very rare guns like bespoke british stuff or stuff that was so cheap that it was abused to death so there aren't many good examples left.

Other than that it's probably all fads and bubbles which are harder to predict than I want to deal with. People who were kids in the 1950s-1960s grew up on TV Westerns and Jack O'Connor so as soon as they got disposable income they had to get lever actions and model 70s. But once that generation dies off the demand is going to drop as they next buying generation has no child hood dreams of being like Chuck Conners.

I try to buy good quality stuff that I'm going to enjoy and try to avoid paying full sticker, but I don't have any belief that anything I own is going to be an investment.

That's not far from what you could get for a New In Box, common caliber, 1930s made Model 70.

I'm less and less enamored with the idea of guns as a good investment with a few exceptions.

I just buried a best friend that was the biggest gun collector I've ever known. His big mistake was not unloading them before he died. If he'd been half as smart about selling them off as he was about acquiring them, he'd have done all right. However, he waited and let his widow handle the sale. It put her through hell. I'm sure she didn't get what he expected to get. We all chipped in and bought what we could, but. . .

I have seen guys who have bought crates of military rifles. That's probably a good investment, or at least it was. An acquaintance bought a case of 7mm mausers and sold them 3 years later for 3 times what he paid for it. I'd love to go back now and buy a truck load of sub-$50 Albanian SKS of which I only bought one. In 10 years they became a classic, and now go for several hundred $'s. Ditto for Mosin Nagants, Swiss K31's and Mauser K98s.

However, I've also seen folks plunk down big bucks "classics," and find that they'd been better off putting it passbook savings.

I remember when those straight pull Swiss K31 rifles came in in large numbers in very nice condition. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting one at the time. Today, I'd love to go back and pick up a couple of nice ones for $100.00 each.

Why so?

Now if all gun investments were like the Colt Python I bought from an Army buddy needing money. I paid him $185 in the early '70's. He wanted it back, but I kept it. That thing is in near mint condition and I've seen similar selling for nearly $3,500. I don't even want to figure the ROI on that one.

That kinda deal doesn't happen every day.

DF

I have been selling off firearms recently, partly because I have too many, and partly because I don't want my wife to be left with a big headache trying to get rid of what I would have left should I die. She knows very little about firearms, and even less about how to sell them and what they are likely worth.
As to the claim that firearms are an 'investment'- assume that you own 50 firearms, and that you bought them right, over a period of 20 years, and they all have appreciated, say at an average of $100 per gun. You sell them all, and realize a gain, over a period of 20 years, of $5000.
$5K, over a long period of time, would hardly be considered a significant investment. The reality, based upon my experience, is that for every firearm that I sell at a profit, 4 are sold near break-even, or at a loss. None of the firearms I own are safe queens- they are all shot, hunted with, and enjoyed. In every instance, they have caused the additional expenditure for ammo, reloading components, scopes, etc., at an amount that far exceeds the value of each individual firearm.
So, maybe the more correct way of describing firearm ownership, rather than using the word 'investment', would be 'hobby', or 'recreational equipment', or 'personal protection expense'.

1) It was the last thing she needed or wanted. She needed time out. Instead, she had to sell his guns.
2) She was not a big gun fan in the first place.
3) She had no idea what they were worth
4) She's a naturally suscpicious woman, and she had no idea if anyone was cheating her.

Luckily a mutual friend of ours who's retired helped compile the inventory and handle a good part of it all. The widow also used his favorite LGS to dispose of the bulk of his collection. If my friend had been looking ahead, he could have sold most of what he had and still kept his favorites. As it was, the widows was pulling out guns from under the furniture for weeks-- I'm still not sure she has them all. Yes, she's probably going to realize quite a bit of money out of it all, but not if her husband had been doing it for her. As it was, he was buying new guns up until a week before he went in the hospital for the last time.

Another thing: A good part of his collection was not in the best of shape. He'd had health problems and not been cleaning them. A good number of the weapons were non-functional when we got them. They weren't all rusted up or anything, but they were in noticeable neglect. As a result, they were not going to fetch top dollar. This is where the plan can really go afoul. A guy needs to unload these things before he can no longer service the collection.

If you think if it as having rented them for that period, it doesn't seem so bad what you can, on average, get back for them when you sell them. After all, you actually make use of them, and enjoy their ownership, unlike a securities portfolio.

a;t the time through century you could buy them for 69dollars.

I’m not seeing much interest in old stuff of any kind from the newest generation

One of my nephews (now a big city cop out West) insists that when he was a kid I promised him my whole collection when I go. I don't quite recall it, but he insists it's true. Not saying it's not, but I don't recall it. Seems unlikely, though.

She sounds like a real peach.

Yep!! I've bought (what I thought would be) collector pieces such as Colt Double Eagles, Winchester Model 70's, etc., and am having trouble selling them. With the proliferation of accurate inexpensive firearms (e.g., Ruger American rifle, Tupper-wear pistols, etc.), hunters are not willing to pay a collector's price for earlier craftsmanship.

I'm sure those liberal gun laws you voted for aren't helping either

In my rural area, there are 1/2 the hunters, and 1/4 the shooters as compared to 20 years ago.
Younger guys in general don't have disposable income, or a sense of history to carry the market.
On average, I think the value has peaked. Younger crowd would rather have a shield or Glock than a M29SW.
Big shops in my area have very little in the way of revolvers anymore. Number of guys under 30 that desire or couls afford a SAA is very slim.
As baby boomers sell off, supply will be up, and less demand.

It may be true that younger folks don't like what old timers do. I can't see a Colt Woodsman getting cheaper soon.

You're lucky to have someone worthy on hand to accept and appreciate them.

I am too, I already passed on my favorites to my son, which he used too growing up. The rest go to my nephews up in New York State (if NY State still lets them at that time )

If any of you got a Stevens 425 in .35 Rem that you want to sell


I got a good home for it here in the mancave.
Willing to pay up to 14 ,15 hundred depending on condition.
It will get hunted for sure.
Pm is always ready to receive.

Yeah, he's the only nephew who really likes guns. He's got a nice little collection, himself.

PS I used to sneak him off to the range to teach him how to shoot when he was a kid (maybe 8 when we started that), despite his parents being anti-gun.

Yet

I'll take this one

I brag about gouging?....hmmmm every buyer was happy to acquire a product, the intrinsic value of which, he failed to recognize 6 months earlier, I wasn't selling rice balls to the starving, Mahatma. Those that have actually acquired disposable income recognize market value and pay the price for what they want. Did you not pay a certain sum for a musket w/ which you could dress up w/ your antique kettle to guard the Alamo and cause young ladies to swoon? You have perfected rationalizing being an educated white male living in a state that most had by passed in their teens, congrats. Some people, probably joo gougers, bought Microsoft stock in the early days and sold it at a huge profit to those that didn't see the value until later.

Not sucking at capitalism has its' place in American history. Just call me a robber baron LMFAO.


mike r

,...who are verbose and with foul dispositions.

You brokedicks whine in chorus.

mike r

Why will '60s era cars be cheap in 15 years?

Times change. Wait until another D-head Dim sits in the Oval Office....guns, any guns, will be worth gold.

You got that right.

?????

Egad Sir, “Whites” and “joos” ? WTF? You’ve been hanging around Bristoe or what? 🙂

Anyhoo, it’s clear thou dost protest too much.

You sold cheap guns to the desperate for $2,000, I prob’ly wouldn’t, but then I ain’t about building castles on sand. You do know you’rr gonna be leaving it all behind right? 🙂

I can only wish reenacting attracted hot chicks, or ANY chicks, but somehow a bunch of geriatrics in strange musty clothes don’t seem to flip their switch 🤨

I figure reenacting at the Alamo is a rare privilege, dunno if you’d be interested tho, it doesn’t pay anything.

How come you’re reaching so hard to belittle me? I can only conclude I struck a nerve.

On a thread concerning gun collections as an investment you chose to title me a gouger for exchanging a gun at a profit with a buyer who wanted it badly. You belittle yourself w/out my assistance. The integrity that you claim to value so highly should exclude being so judgmental....and fragile.



mike r

I'm glads to see you twos are finally getting along

You’re right, they never woulda bought ‘em at $600 🙄

Market sucks, I've posted NIB rifles that aren't made anymore and they don't get a look.

The folks buying during the panics don't "need" the guns/ammo, they "want" it. Bad. If civil war broke out of hand any I had out like Halloween candy. Food, etc also.

During a panic it's simple supply and demand. Any rational person knows the cycle and if you're too stupid to BTFD (buy the [bleep] dip) then you deserve to pay stupid prices during the peaks.

Nothing to do with integrity in the least, and this idea that poverty equates integrity is ridiculous.

Because buyers are and will be dying of old age.

‘K Dude, everybody loves the guy peddling $2,000 Norincos at the gun show in an election year

I suppose there are circumstances where poverty CAN equate to integrity. I saw that in Africa, where a small minority of devout Christians and Muslims would refuse participating in corruption. Over here integrity is easy, over there refusing the income from bribes and theft can actually starve your children.

If Jesus Himself showed up in your gun store, would you sell Him a $350 Norinco for $2,000? According to Him, as you do for the least of folks is the same as doing it to Jesus.

Look, I'm comparing this to situations I know. Take my Dad. Dad died unexpectedly just before he turned 85. He had a will and he had nearly all his assets tagged with Mom's name on them as either a beneficiary or a co-signer. The day after his death, Mom sat me down and had me call a few phone numbers. After that, there were no big concerns about money.

My friend? He had a will. He had even gone so far as to specify how he wanted his funeral. However, as soon as he was in the ground, his widow had to start digging through the house. There was no master inventory. There was no good way to determine what was valuable and what was not. In the end, she had managed to fill one of the bedrooms with all of the stash with some pistols going over into another bedroom. All in all, it was a 3 month project to get everything catalogued and then another month or two before they were out to the LGS. I vaguely knew what he had-- to the point where I even volunteered one of my sons to babysit the house during the funeral. She got a neighbor instead.

There were things in that collection that only Bill Ruger and a handful of others would have understood. My friend knew Bill, and astonished him with some of his finds. You had to be around and know the inside scoop because there was no written provenance. I sat with the widow one night and explained about a half-dozen of the best finds to the best of my memory.

If this gun-as-an-investment thing could have worked, then the process of divestment should have started a good 5 years earlier while my friend still was able. He could have gotten top dollar for everything by calling around in his network of collectors. He could have probably kept a few treasures, and made written instructions on who to call. He could also have kept trading-- that was his real passion. However, he should have kept an eye out for steadily reducing his inventory. He should have also kept an inventory of what he had and done at least some estimate of what it was worth. Probably the worst loss of all was the fact that there was little or no written provenance on any of it. That's history that's lost.

As an example, there was this fellow he knew way back that asked him about becoming an engraver. My friend gave him some encouragement and later on received one of his earliest pieces. It was this gorgeous 38 special revolver-- stunning. I met the engraver once back in the early 80's. The guy's dead now, but his artistry made him a legend-- forget the name; it's been too long. Anyhow, there would be folks giving their eye teeth for an example of that guy's work. I pointed the piece out to the widow. She noted it on the inventory sheet. Lord only knows what it fetched, but I can guarantee it didn't get what it deserved. It's now out there floating around and no one knows who did it or what it is truly worth.

Tragic.

Weapon acquisition [purchase/come into possession of] are investments in mental health, longevity, and top shelf nutrition through their use, to hell with what mans current or future dollar has to say about their worth.

Your Super Grade Pre-64 .22 Hornet seems to have held it's value...

But, I agree with you. It's more than just the dollars...

DF

The selling of firearms, like most everything, the current market sets the price.

Be prepared to be offered substantially less than current market retail price when selling to gun shops, pawnshops, private gun 'flippers', versus selling to private collectors and gun enthusiasts. Resellers want / need to move them quickly and make as much profit on resale as reasonably possible and won't want to have their money tied up in slow/no sellers they have to price too high because they paid too much for.

The most impressive single collection of high quality 'investment' grade modern firearms (mostly hand guns) I ever saw in one place at the same time, bought to be resold, was piled up on a long line of end-to-end folding tables at a local pawnshop, being recorded into inventory.

None ever made it to the shop floor for sale to general public.

Can’t gouge, especially on a Norinco, without some dummy silly enough to pony up.

Granted, my opinion of the fat old fuggs waiting in line at Sportsman’s warehouse to buy up all the 22’s was quite low. Hope all the old bastids lost a fortune when Trump won.

Sweet!
I had a Pro Racer back in the day. Wish I still had it with the original pad set.

probably the best, most useful (actionable) information in the thread so far:

you are not winning.
hint.
Go with God.

More thoughts:

Get all your bequesting done before you're incapacitated. Give the pieces away that you mean to give away to relatives, etc. Don't let the vultures descend. I've seen so many buddies who've had their family heirlooms boosted by their distant relatives. Me? I got screwed on a massive collection of antique fishing gear that my Great Grandfather used back in the early 1900's. They all got sold off by great uncle who picked up $50 doing a garage sale. He also sold off his carpentry workshop for $75.

I have 2 sons that share my passion. My wife has a few pieces. I have a granddaughter who is starting to amass a collection at the age of 7. My two sons got together several years ago and decided that when the old man assumes ambient temperature, they'll keep the collection mostly intact and borrow from it as they see fit. Hopefully, by then I'll have a few more grandchildren on which to lavish firearm gifts.

If I suspected the gun cabinet was going to be raided after my demise, I'd sell the whole lot and deposit the proceeds in the bank.

You have leapt into the realm of the absurd, again. This is America, a capitalist society where anyone can spend their money as they choose. Items are on offer and the market is determined by what people will actually pay for that item. There are actually people out there who are successful enough to buy what they want when they want it, a concept that you apparently can't identify w/ .

As for jesus in the gunstore, I sold him a Jennings at full retail and suggested he turn it into a Norinco.

Food for thought on your value system and hypocrisy, why did you not take the funds w/ which you purchased your musket and kettle and donate them to the needy?

Judge not lest ye too be judged, Mahatma


mike r

And they'd mail them to you!

Whats legal doesn't always have class. You're the $2,000 Norinco guy at the gunshow who nobody likes, I get that.



Ya but how much did ya get him over a barrel for that Jennings?



What hypocrisy?



A more apt statement would be why don't I sell them to fellow gun enthusiasts (my natural allies) for 600% of what I paid for them just because I can.

As for how much of our time and things should we give away, that's a personal thing. I've given quite a lot of both time and material stuff, others have given more, some less.


A side note on that 'Bess; I paid $1,100, it was a tremendous deal on a lightly used musket the guy assembled himself, and he has skills. A Rifle Shoppe one might be nicer, but until then its the nicest one I've seen

Thank you! I appreciate your appreciation.

I recently took a group of 50 kids shooting. It looked like most of them just wanted to get a pic to prove on Facebook that they did something. They all said they had fun and really enjoyed it but it didn't look like it to me. None of them really jumped right in. They didnt shoot much either, I bought way too much ammo.

When I was young kids would have been hurrying to be first in line and then begging for another turn. These kids just seemed more like they just wanted to do it once to say they did. They were well behaved and listened to the safety rules they just didn't seem to have the drive I thought they might.

Bb

Unless they've grown up with parents that are into guns, all they've heard for the majority of their lives when they turn on the tv is that guns are evil and should be banned.

A self centered woman that didn't care about guns and didn't need the money.

A dead guy who could care less

and broke guy lusting after said guns

got it

My personal opinion is that you should buy nice rifles/shotguns/handguns because you enjoy having them, not because you think they're a good investment. That seems like a potentially very risky thing to do purely from an investment perspective.

I have been pondering this a lot lately. I’m not 60 yet but I know the right thing to do is let some of my stuff go eventually. I’ve collected and enjoyed guns since my first 30-30. Now some 40 years later I’m sitting on a pretty nice hoard. I don’t shoot most of them but still enjoy wiping them with a diaper occasionally.

In general, guns are a poor investment if one is looking for a significant return during their lifetime. Most Gun buyers today want plastic stocks and can take or leave stainless. They want cheap or less expensive firearms as reflected by what is seen on dealer shelves. Manufacturers focus on what sells, and today the above mentioned rifles lead in sales, by a large margin. I like and use wood, blue guns but my 5 kids and 9 grandkids who hunt now prefer plastic. The writing on the wall indicates the days of quality wood, blue rifles and shotguns has passed. And I seriously doubt we'll see it again. There are holdouts like me and some other old folks, but we too will pass. Invest in land, real estate, or mutual funds. Ymmv.

I'm not sure how you're reading all this into what I wrote.

Which broke guy?

Of course the woman is being self-centered; she's newly widowed. Who wouldn't be?

The dead guy? He was half out of his mind when he died. Kidney failure will do that. However, on one of our last visits together he finally realized the jig was up. He cried that he'd left his wife with such a mess. His last cogent words to me were how much he loved her. He was dead in 18 hours.

I wouldn't go ragging on the widow. She had her hands full. I think you're also missing the point that this was going to be her inheritance. My point is that it would have been so much nicer if she'd been able to reach into a drawer, pull out a policy booklet or a bank statement and make a couple of phone calls. Instead, she had to go to work for 90 days trying to sell off the collection to fund her life as a new widow. We all pitched in and helped out as best we could. Our family spent quite a chunk on acquiring some of his guns. That was a huge pile of change. Everyone else who came by did the best they could.

That's no way to start the rest of your life. You could tell this was a real trial for her. We spent an evening with her, and she couldn't help breaking down in tears several times. This went on night after night for days on end as his friends came by to buy up what they could. Most of the really good pieces were way above everyone's budget. I'm not even sure the LGS knew how to get top dollar for them. Yes, I'd love a 3 digit Ruger Super-Blackhawk, or a Hawkeye in256 WIN or an unshot 3-screw Blackhawk, but I couldn't afford it. I already have a 3-screw Blackhawk, but it's well used. The other thing was this: how are you going to sell a pistol once shot by Elmer Keith? A 20 gauge SXS that was the genesis of years of articles in GunDog Magazine? Now that Bill Ruger's dead, there's maybe a handful of people in this world that would recognize the true significance of a parkerized Ruger Standard with a low 3 digit serial number. There were only 6 made. When Bill saw it, he let out a whoop: "How in the hell did you find that?" How are you going to explain a pistol that got sent to the guy by Bill Ruger, because Bill lost a bet? There was a whole bedroom filled with these things.

I went to see her in August. She called to tell me to come get his rifle cabinet. It was now 6 months since we'd put him in the ground. She was completely drained.

The other thing was the condition of the guns. I know of three pieces out of maybe a dozen that went through private sale that have had to go to the gunsmith. It was all neglect-related problems. My buddy just got too sick in his latter years to maintain the collection.

I'm about to get real on this one.

If a husband and wife love each other, and really care about each other's happiness and future they will discuss their finances throughout the relationship. Every day. All expenditures and investments.

If the only "inheritance" which they worked a lifetime on TOGETHER was a collection of TOOLS which the husband enjoyed but the wife ALLOWED him to acquire at whatever expenditure WITHOUT providing other forms of retirement savings then she is as guilty as him.

Too many people have NOTHING when their spouse dies. I can not feel bad because someone is left with a car collection, an art collection, real estate holdings or a large hoard of anything with monetary value. Work to build a collection, and it takes work to liquidate one.

Sometimes the stuff just has to go to other collectors for whatever it brings.

well, ok.

is that the flow of the Tao?

is that what we are speaking of?

markets rise & markets fall. is that it?

Its good when you can help others and yourself.

Same here. but I think firearms would be much more of a prospect than old automoblies. (as some seem to want to hang their hat on)

Disagree, well FINE

Speculation is found in all investments. Many collectors/shooters/hobbyists feel they have the knowledge and ability to do what many experienced FFL's have tried and were unsuccessful at with 100% of their life's focus. It is hard work. It requires product and market research with documentation of inventory along with a business continuation plan or a complete liquidation plan in order to be successful.

Leaving things up to chance or the "flow of the market" can be quite risky. Especially when folks stop by looking for the "friends and family" discount upon hearing the spouse has put her "liquidation plan" into motion before the sod is rolled over the gravesite.

i ain't much of a market researcher, but it would be interesting to know the profile of ownership of guns in general: males, females, age ranges, urban, rural. i don't know. just things to think about. but i enjoy the idea that the stock market surely does have it's dips and advances.. so why shouldn't horse prices, gun prices, 4wd vehicle prices, etc. etc.

[quote=simonkenton7]"The ones that do come live on their phone the whole time - 9-10 years old on a phone constantly - no interest in hunting or gun talk ."

That sums it up. These Millennials all have joined the cult, their religion is the Iphone. In general they have no interest in hunting or camping.

>The future of guns is bleak, and this includes the Second Amendment<


Burleyboy ,

Your comments on the 50 kids interest in firearms made me think back to SimonKenton7 post - last sentence .
It's only a short matter of time .

It can be a nice way to keep up with, or maybe even beat, inflation without having the tax man rob ya blind.

Or losing it all to a care home....

Please..

Complete flop? No. But nothing stays the same some will loose in value some won't the market won't stay the same. The guys that grew up watching the Rifleman and John Wayne movies will be gone and the guys that grew up gaming and playing with air soft will be middle aged and older down the road.

You say that you paid a price for your musket that you considered a good deal? You filthy capitalist, taking advantage of that naive seller! I hope that you don't teach economics...or logic.

Just to rattle your tin cup a little more. I bought those 10 Norinco Aks for $250.00 each. I then rented them to students who paid $200.00/day for use of the gun, 600 rounds of Russian ammo and the expertise of myself and an AI. Classes were limited to 10 students per 2 day session. I paid the AI $600.00 and I paid all the overhead. All concerned thought this a good value and customers were accepted only after thorough vetting by their employers who were OGAs or their contractors.

The Norincos were pretty much and indestructible and their buyers were elated to acquire them, used and reconditioned by Jim Fuller, for $2000.00/ea w/ a bonus of 3 chink steel mags and 90 rounds of Russian ammo.
Such is the way of American capitalism and market economics.

To paraphrase Marx; To each according to his abilites....


mike r

AMZN stock at $10/share in 2001

It closed today at $1,779.99 /share.

18th root of $177.999 = 1.33

That is 33.36% compounded.

---------------------------------------------------------------
.... $6k worth of MSFT in the 1980s.
By 2000, it was worth $2M.
--------------------------------------------------------
Buy a Subaru for $6k in the 1970s.
Or buy $6k in Subaru stock instead.
By the time the car would have worn out, the stock was worth $1M.

---------------------------------------------------------

Guns, Gold, and guitars appreciate at 3% compounded, not 33%.

didn't WalMart stock sell for 10 cents when it first became available?

don't even look at the price today.

Dang, and you said it was ME who was fragile.... 🙄


Wasn’t it you who brung the musket into this conversation? Beautiful gun, made by a guy with skills for his own use as a hunting/woods weapon. Assembled from a Pedersoli kit (meaning I can buy a drop-in replacement lock).

It was a good will transaction, he apparently needed to sell it and it went to a good home, I woulda paid more for it if he asked. When my time comes I’ll gift it off or sell it for a song; relative or guy getting started in the hobby.

So, not really a transaction between strangers ergo not really applicable here but it was you who brought it up.



MY tin cup? You’ve been floundering all over the map reaching for put-downs, still are.

Anyhoo.... sounds from here like you might have used your name and reputation to sell a bunch of heavily used Norincos at an 800% markup. Again not something I woulda done (prob’ly why I’m broke).



They were “elated” to buy $2,000 Norincos? 🙂 Prob’ly didn’t get out much. We’re they Americans?

I’m not sure how this all ties in to your gun shop employer begging you employees to sell them as you stated earlier, but I suppose it could.



I’m curious..... what does one do to recondition a Norinco AK?



If I was paying that much, at the very least I’d expect to receive a blow job.... (Las Vegas capitalism and economics 🙂)



To paraphrase Qui-Gon Jinn; There’s always a bigger fish...

Birdie, are blow jobs part of ghetto transactions in Texas? It does explain your level of comprehension of economics and capitalism. Look up Jim Fuller Rifle Dynamics and see what can be done w/ an AK. The fact that you don't get out much and observe the world is no ones fault but your own and could explain why you are broke.

Americans have the opportunity to achieve a modest success or become billionaires w/o compromising either their integrity or dignity. Hard work, constant striving to improve and risk taking are a proven formula. Give it a try.


mike r

I would think that might be a freebie included anywhere in any State when one asks $2,000 for a Norinco (along with three extra mags and a box of Wolf ammo of course).



My level of comprehension of economics and capitalism is pretty good, hence my assumption of the possibility of the inclusion of sexual favors in the deal you stated. Most everyone I know might feel taken if they were paying $2,000 for a used Norinco otherwise.



Ya, but what did he do to those $2,000 Norincos? Or was this another case of using a name to promote a product?



In recent years I’ve observed quite a lot of the world from a bicycle 🙂. Other than that it’s mostly been the usual urban problems stuff



Been telling that exact thing to my students for more’n 30 years .......



.....while avoiding actually working for a living all that time....

We have a saying in education; “Do as I say, not as I do.”

Something like that split adjusted. Had an aunt that worked at one of the first Walmart’s when Sam Walton was still very active. He told all store employees to buy at least one share every payday when it went public. She did and ended up retiring in her early 50s probably never having made for than $12/hour

Next year this time, Birdie and LVMike will be bicycling to a gun show together.

If the Senate convicts, Pence will be next, Pelosi will be POTUS and the value of gun collections will hit ZERO the same day, along with the value of all our lives.

You define yourself, and "educators" in general exactly as would I. You do not seem to understand the fundamentals of market capitalism if you fail to recognize that those buyers were not misled or coerced. Nor were the products misrepresented. Those buyers were happy to indulge in a purchase that was no longer easily acquired.

I do find it disturbing, though not surprising, that you equate [bleep] w/ capitalism, do you get a better rate in the ghetto? And where do BJs fit in your definition of integrity, kind of scary from a schoolteacher.


mike r

i think i just heard recently of a norinco ak selling for 2500bucks.
they ain't importing them anymore.
some broken down chinese s.k.s.s are currently going for about 400bucks.
i also remember east german 7.62x39 going for 70bucks for 1200 rounds.
like you could find that at that price today.

Norinco AKs have always been well regarded. There was a time when folks could buy the goofy thumbhole stocked version for $200.00-$250.00 each. Some bought them, others invested in bicycles and old kettles. The beauty of America is that everyone is free to make their own decisions.


mike r

You sold ‘em at an 800% markup because you could. OK. It’s legal. But you’re right, implying you used a name to misrepresent a product was a cheap shot.



I find it disturbing but not surprising you fail to recognize the absurdist humor in the premise.



Strictly speaking, San Antonio ain’t big on ghettos, and no one calls it that anyway. I came here looking to be a good teacher in an inner city Hell. Turns out San Antonio only does inner-city lukewarm. Friendliest big city I’ve ever seen.

Damn, and I gave mine for a song to a friend, didn’t have much use for it.

The most important decision one can make is what you are paying to acquire some product.
another case in point
few years ago imported from germany some sig p6's, which were basically the police version of the 225, single stack.
some other than being test fired, were brandnew, in the box, test acceptance target from the police, and manual in german.
along with a rather trick holster.
$220dollars for a new sig sauer? absolutely a no brainer. Going for about double that now.
lets say i wanted to sell one for 350bucks, wouldn't take long, and thats still 100profit over the 220..
it isn't rocket science.
Military 1911's were at one time going for about 20bucks through the nra. anybody want to buy one for 100bucks? Yeah, i thought so.

Even with polished magazines, they are still just SKSs.

Chinese SKSs for $340 today

We paid $90 for a Chinese SKS in 1992.

2019 - 1992 = 27 years [ have I really had it that long in my gun safe?]

$340 / $90 = a ratio of 3.77

27th root of [3.77] = 1.05 -> 5% return interest compounded annually for owning and SKS for 27 years

That means SKSs from China beat the background inflation 3% compounded annually of average Guns, Guitars, and Gold.

End my SKS investing calculation
===============================================================================
Start stock investing calculation

I got Google stock at the IPO when it was $100 in 2004. Now after a split the equivalent of $2526.

2019 - 2004 = 15 years
$2526 / $100 = a ratio of 25.26

The 15th root of [25.26] = 1.24 -> 24% return interest compounded annually for owning Google stock for 15 years.

I stumbled across this and thought I'd contribute, as there is a lot to learn here for a guy in his mid-30s. I love old guns. There is something special about an old Parker or an old Abercrombie & Fitch--we have a couple of these in the safe. The reality is that my generation is not too nostalgic. A "fancy gun" is a wooden Benelli with some gold to my generation. Automatics are deemed much more practical.

The reality is that old rifles are not going to hold their values, as others have stated. I don't want a pre-64. I can only use 1 rifle at a time and don't want to have something that I have to clean and worry about rust and wood warping on a backpack sheep hunt. I am not a huge gun collector. I have a couple of very accurate custom rifles with very high dollar S&B scopes in my arsenal. Each of these guns would retail new for $8,000+. I would never get that out of these today on here or Gunbroker. They are killing sticks, plain and simple. They do their jobs very well. One of them was used last month on a Coues at 500 yards and performed flawlessly. I didn't worry about banging the gun around in the field, as it's not an investment--it's my weapon.

As for the shotguns, it's fun to take some of the old ones out for a field hunt at a shooting preserve or for a round of clays. However, your automatics are a one-and-done gun that will do it all for clays, ducks, geese, dove, and turkey. Simple, something my generation likes about them. Oh, and you don't have to wipe down the whole gun when someone puts a finger print on the barrel accidentally. I will still get a few old shotguns here and there but I would rather have a handful of really nice guns that I use versus a gun safe full of queens that are taking up space.

Simply stated, tastes have changed. The flat-brimmers have no problem spending $10K on a Gunwerks setup. I'd love to have a Drilling somewhere down the line and I'm sure I will. I just know I'll hear some snarky remarks from my peers--similar to the remarks I heard when I took out the pre-war Parker and proceeded to kick their butts on the clay course.

Mike, I don't have time to read the whole thread so please excuse if this is repetitive.

I think you'll run into more problems "getting rid" of guns due to changes in firearms law POTENTIALLY, than you will on the straight-up market, including demographics. Thus far, the model has been for restrictions to be threatened and stuff to go through the roof-which is essentially good for those who already have guns but might want to get rid of them for whatever reason. That could change though if we see even one example of a state doing widespread confiscations/prosecutions, etc.

Generally, run-of-the-mill semi-auto AK's, etc. are not really collectibles. They certainly can yo-yo in value though. Also certain variants can get collectible really quick.

I think firearms as an investment overall is a sucker's bet. If you like them, collect them.

Brand new FN FAL


Some Colts and Brownings





70s


21’s


94’s

People buy guns as an investment vehicle?

I buy what I like, never thought of mine as an investment. Mine aren’t worth a hell of a lot.

As long as you only want to match inflation, I guess they are a pretty decent investment.

err if you wanted to buy guns, you can kinda rationalize it.

as of right now i could sell almost every one of my guns for what i paid. most more, some two to five times. i enjoy owning, shooting, hunting with and fondling them. i figure theres not a whole hell of a lot of things you can do that with. i would be more concerned about how gun law changes could affect the black gun market. could go either way. might make the price go up like the "pre-ban" thing of the 90's. might make them illegal in some states and you would have to jump through hoops to unload them. as i approach retirement i am going to turn most of them back into money to fund some other stuff. my kids have picked out the ones they want and the rest will be sold while i am alive and can get top buck.

Any collection is only worth what someone will pay for it--

I think a sound investment if one sticks with really high end gear like European doubles and maybe American Sharps. Considered it, but with no vault handy would be afraid to leave the house unattended. Also, it would likely take considerable time to liquidate.

I don't think they're a great investment.

The cultural change brought on by millennials and younger is profound. Their interest in anything rugged is almost nonexistent. Small game hunting is taking a particularly hard hit. As goes small game hunting, goes small game guns. No interest whatsoever. Old Ithaca 37s and Winchester Model 12s will be a dime a dozen someday, IMHO. I hope I’m wrong. It appears to be a pretty pathetic situation at this point. I can’t relate at all. Luckily, my 12 kids are crazy about hunting/shooting.

and if i wanted to, i don't, i could sell them to you at 100dollars and still make money.
from memory, i think they were about 400bucks at cabella's last week, and they were at the low end of the condition spectrum.

i have had the good fortune or misfortune if you want to go it that, of having the ability to see a lot of firearms through the years, imported as mil surp, which is my thing, and other types. I have also had the ability to buy just about everything below market price.
I think just about every thing i bought other than i liked it, was i was able to buy at a price i didn't have much worry about reselling at that or a higher price.
there was a time you could buy those 1903 springfields or the 03A3's as an example for a few hundred bucks. if one was to sell one today for five hundred bucks, you would have a line down the street to your door.
I don't even want to get into the class three stuff. once you could buy a m16 for about 400bucks. not so today.
I got into a discussion with a guy in the midwest a few years ago that literally filled his garage with cases of 7x6 2x51. the discussion was he bought it for 140bucks a case, i rememberd the stuff selling for that. it was during the clinton period, and he eventually sold all of it for a heck of a lot more money.
I had a friend hit it a few years ago with .22lr ammo, a garage full of it. there were people from california driving to arizona to buy it.
it's all about what you pay for it.

In 2009 I bought an English double rifle. It is a Boswell in 450-400 3 1/4”, engraved, circa 1907, and in very good shape. It is accurate in double rifle terms. It was listed at $28,000 and I bought it for $18,500. Saw a basically identical rifle listed on Guns International recently for $13,500. There are doubles listed on GI for over two years that have not sold.

I don’t regret buying it, might even take it to Africa next year. However even the higher end rifles will continue to fall in price. Young people are not hunting in Africa nor have the passion to own a $25,000 rifle.

Colt single actions been good to me. Those times will never happen again.

Want a good investment? Buy index funds

Yeah. Kinda. I guess so. Or you can always try to defend yourself or your loved ones with a google stock certificate.

I got in to hang gliding in 1978. I lived in Atlanta and it was a 2 1/2 hour drive to Lookout Mountain. Lookout is one of the premier hang gliding sites in America.
I had six buddies in Atlanta, we would pile in to a couple of vans and drive up on Saturday morning, and spend the weekend flying. In 1979 and 1980, the number of hang glider pilots was doubling, and tripling every year. We were all young guys, 25, 22, some of us 19 years old.
In 1978 all we had at Lookout was a launch site and a landing field, no buildings.
By 1985, there was a big building at launch that sold gliders harnesses etc. By 1985 they had a bunkhouse in the landing field. The business was really booming.

I went to a hang gliding site in South Carolina a few months ago, the youngest pilot I saw was 50 years old, and the guys told me that the hang gliding sport is in a state of collapse. Said the millennials just are not interested. He told me the millennials want to sit in Mommy's basement and text on their Iphones rather than get out and do a risky sport.

So I would imagine that the gun industry, and sport, is headed where hang gliding is, towards extinction.

A good alternative are AK & AKMs assembled in Nevada USA by company called Arsenal. Depending on model used one in great shape can be had for about $900. As someone pointed out correctly the money for a gun is made at the purchase not at the point of sale. Recently I recommended 20ga SxS shotgun to someone that was looking for good looking shooting gun. It turned out to be Japanese-made Winchester of Anson & Deeley type limited edition called Grand Canadian. The asking price for gun in excellent condition was $1400. As population ages the prices on certain firearms are only going to get better and better.
Looking at present American market and realizing most gun owners are former military one possibility is wartime P-38s made by Mauser, Walther, Speelwerk (most common). The prices are relatively low. I would stay away from late war vintage because they were made/assembled by slave labor and concentration camp inmates where there were known acts of sabotage against German war industry. I would not want to see someone injure themselves shooting one.

My returns in the stock market mostly into MSFT, GOOG, and AMZN:
Bush 41 years -20% compounded annually
Clinton years +20% compounded annually
Bush 43 years +20% compounded annually
Obuma years +20% compounded annually
Trump years +39% compounded annually

My returns on owning guns 1961 - 2020 +3% compounded annually

If I walk into a pawn shop and buy a Rem 700 30-06 with Leupold 3x9 scope for $400 + 10% sales tax = $440.
If I stand there and say, OK, I want to sell it now. They will sell it on commission of 15% of $400 = $340 I get back when it sells.
That is 25% cost of trading.
At 3% compounded it takes 7.5 years before I make up the commision and sales tax.

That is NOT a good investment.

Be a saver not a big spender. Start buying Index funds when you are young and never stop. Take a chance occasionally on good stocks as well and hold onto them.

When you are old enough to appreciate the wisdom in that advice you can buy good guns like you are buying a pizza.

How much pleasure do they give you?
More than a tech gadget?
If they meet CandR (and maybe even off they don't) you can probably justify a trading loss to set against another "investment" if you sell down.., on the other hand if they put 50lbs of meat on your table a year. That is a dividend you are not taxed on (other than the annual license to hunt)

You might even consider your hunting, zeroing, load development time as therapy to help you deal with the grief you get from other parts of your life......

how about if you were able to buy a arsonal for about 400bucks, good investment?