I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
So what is the deal? Was the term recently invented just for TV Evangelism?
It might help to understand the commandment of Jesus to be baptized and show and make a public profession of faith
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." ( Romans 6:4)
Water baptism is a way to visually preach the gospel. Standing in the water symbolizes a Jesus dying on the cross, immersing in the water symbolizes Jesus being buried in the tomb and being raised from the water symbolizes Jesus rising from the dead. We bury the ‘old life,’ and we rise to walk in a ‘new life’.
It might help to understand the commandment of Jesus to be baptized and show and make a public profession of faith
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." ( Romans 6:4)
Water baptism is a way to visually preach the gospel. Standing in the water symbolizes a Jesus dying on the cross, immersing in the water symbolizes Jesus being buried in the tomb and being raised from the water symbolizes Jesus rising from the dead. We bury the ‘old life,’ and we rise to walk in a ‘new life’.
Idaho Shooter: I am not up on the definitions of many current religious terms used by various entities/factions but I take no offense or great curiosity when I see or hear the term "BORN AGAIN" being used. I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's. I would never display a bumper sticker that is solely intended to offend a lot of my neighbors. But its a new world we live in I guess? Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
When one is saved, he/she has been' born again', [spiritually renewed], and is now [technically] a child of God by right of new birth.
its a long way to go..but nothing beats full-immersion in the Jordan!
But be ***warned*** that raw sewerage gets pumped into the Jordan, so may get more than you bargained for.
From the bridge in the background, you oughta see the big monster catfish that are lazing along the far bank. Maybe they are sturgeon, I don't know, but they looked about 3 foot long.
Born again was a trip for me when the Southern Baptist preacher tried to drown me at age 12. The experience, coupled with being brought up with a true Christian mother handed me some morels & made me a thinker on the subject & an observer of folks that claimed to be Christians.
Truly born again was when I got divorced from a schizophrenic bitch that was making me a way worse person than I really was.
I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
So what is the deal? Was the term recently invented just for TV Evangelism?
I find that hard to believe. Maybe you just weren’t listening. Maybe you thought you had more important things on your mind.
Born again was a trip for me when the Southern Baptist preacher tried to drown me at age 12. The experience, coupled with being brought up with a true Christian mother handed me some morels & made me a thinker on the subject & an observer of folks that claimed to be Christians.
Truly born again was when I got divorced from a schizophrenic bitch that was making me a way worse person than I really was.
I can no way begin to explain it but if you've been there you'll never forget it. Your so filled with joy it is unbelievable and undeniable that it came from a higher power.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
So what is the deal? Was the term recently invented just for TV Evangelism?
To believe with the same innocence of that as a trusting child would believe.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Baptism makes one a member in the community of Chr*st. The “church “ is only a conduit.
I can no way begin to explain it but if you've been there you'll never forget it. Your so filled with joy it is unbelievable and undeniable that it came from a higher power.
Idaho Shooter: I am not up on the definitions of many current religious terms used by various entities/factions but I take no offense or great curiosity when I see or hear the term "BORN AGAIN" being used. I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's. I would never display a bumper sticker that is solely intended to offend a lot of my neighbors. But its a new world we live in I guess? Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Offending the neighbors might be his reason, but offending the Lord is serious business, fatally serious.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Baptism makes one a member in the community of Chr*st. The “church “ is only a conduit.
I'm not familiar with the "brethren" of whom you speak, but it's not surprising you haven't heard the term from mormons.
However, among Protestant Christians it is not a new or colloquial term as has been posted by others far more eloquent than I.
The mormons are concerned with getting their own planet, the papists worship idols and ask for confession from pedos.
Being born again and taking responsibility for your actions is a different thing.
Religion is *usually* just the opposite. It's taking no responsibility for your actions because you are forgiven no matter what. Just look at grab 'em by the pussy Trump.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
So you made my point. Those who never suffered unbelief, are never "reborn".
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Baptism makes one a member in the community of Chr*st. The “church “ is only a conduit.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
So you made my point. Those who never suffered unbelief, are never "reborn".
The scripture says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
I'm not familiar with the "brethren" of whom you speak, but it's not surprising you haven't heard the term from mormons.
However, among Protestant Christians it is not a new or colloquial term as has been posted by others far more eloquent than I.
The mormons are concerned with getting their own planet, the papists worship idols and ask for confession from pedos.
Being born again and taking responsibility for your actions is a different thing.
Religion is *usually* just the opposite. It's taking no responsibility for your actions because you are forgiven no matter what. Just look at grab 'em by the pussy Trump.
I'm not familiar with the "brethren" of whom you speak, but it's not surprising you haven't heard the term from mormons.
However, among Protestant Christians it is not a new or colloquial term as has been posted by others far more eloquent than I.
The mormons are concerned with getting their own planet, the papists worship idols and ask for confession from pedos.
Being born again and taking responsibility for your actions is a different thing.
Religion is *usually* just the opposite. It's taking no responsibility for your actions because you are forgiven no matter what. Just look at grab 'em by the pussy Trump.
I'm not familiar with the "brethren" of whom you speak, but it's not surprising you haven't heard the term from mormons.
However, among Protestant Christians it is not a new or colloquial term as has been posted by others far more eloquent than I.
The mormons are concerned with getting their own planet, the papists worship idols and ask for confession from pedos.
Being born again and taking responsibility for your actions is a different thing.
Religion is *usually* just the opposite. It's taking no responsibility for your actions because you are forgiven no matter what. Just look at grab 'em by the pussy Trump.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Baptism makes one a member in the community of Chr*st. The “church “ is only a conduit.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Baptism makes one a member in the community of Chr*st. The “church “ is only a conduit.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
Baptism makes one a member in the community of Chr*st. The “church “ is only a conduit.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
So you made my point. Those who never suffered unbelief, are never "reborn".
The scripture says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
I am pretty sure I wrote nothing contrary to that. Belief has never prevented sin.
Maybe I never heard the term because the people I know had been raised in their respective religions and been believers from birth. Thus they never discussed the born again phenomenon.
Even babtism which occurs at about age 16 or so (old enough to make an informed decision) was always considered more of a confirmation than a rebirth.
Baptism makes one a Church member. To be born again, one must repent of the sin of unbelief and be saved by the grace of God. Baptism comes after salvation.
So you made my point. Those who never suffered unbelief, are never "reborn".
The scripture says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
I am pretty sure I wrote nothing contrary to that. Belief has never prevented sin.
I agree. I believe the sin of unbelief is the one that sends you to hell. I did not mean to sound as if I was disputing what you said. Sorry if it seemed that way.
...........................................to many it means, Hey, I've just discovered a way to sell a line of BS and rip the weak out of a chit-ton of money!
Some get reborn by becoming born of the spirit which never dies but is everlasting life.
All die, but some die to the flesh and body on earth and become born of the everlasting spirit and will spend eternity with HIM in heaven by being forgiven of their sins.
All must die, but some may die of the flesh and be saved from that physical death if they are around at HIS return.,
So you made my point. Those who never suffered unbelief, are never "reborn".
The scripture says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
I am pretty sure I wrote nothing contrary to that. Belief has never prevented sin.
I agree. I believe the sin of unbelief is the one that sends you to hell. I did not mean to sound as if I was disputing what you said. Sorry if it seemed that way.
That's cool. I did not mean to sound snippy. Just looking for education.
Prophets have been telling us for nearly 4000 years " The end is nigh".
Pretty stupid when HE said HE went to make a place for us and HE took 6 days to get HIS previous work done building things down here.
Well, now it has been 2000 years from Adam and Eve to Abraham and then 2000 more years until Jesus Christ. Now we know the king who tried to kill the new born Jesus and when he reigned. We just dont know when Jesus was born in his reign, but we know another 2000 years will be up somewhere between 2016 and 2027.
If HE gets HIS present job done by 6000 years then HE is due to return at any moment. As a scripture in Psalms said something about HIM returning with the lastTrump, I hope and pray we are ready, IS.
So you made my point. Those who never suffered unbelief, are never "reborn".
The scripture says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
I am pretty sure I wrote nothing contrary to that. Belief has never prevented sin.
I agree. I believe the sin of unbelief is the one that sends you to hell. I did not mean to sound as if I was disputing what you said. Sorry if it seemed that way.
That's cool. I did not mean to sound snippy. Just looking for education.
I can no way begin to explain it but if you've been there you'll never forget it. Your so filled with joy it is unbelievable and undeniable that it came from a higher power.
... can't be explained because its nonsensical.
You may mean illogical or irrational, but you certainly don't mean nonsensical. The very experience he is describing is by definition sensory.
Given that correction: Is a sensory experience that is not logical actually and always illogical? Is a sensory experience that is not rational actually and always irrational?
...........................................to many it means, Hey, I've just discovered a way to sell a line of BS and rip the weak out of a chit-ton of money!
That’s an unfortunate abuse for sure. Like many truths, there are evil people who will misuse it to their own gain, but that misuse of truth doesn’t make it any less true.
That’s an unfortunate abuse for sure. Like many truths, there are evil people who will misuse it to their own gain, but that misuse of truth doesn’t make it any less true.
IMO, were it an absolute truth, far fewer could take advantage. As it stands, it's the belief or unknown that allows them to reap from the gullible.
To the OP, I feel the term is often denominational. I was raised in a southern baptist church and rarely heard a sermon that "born again" wasn't used.
I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
So what is the deal? Was the term recently invented just for TV Evangelism?
John 3:1-21 English Standard Version (ESV) You Must Be Born Again 3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]
For God So Loved the World 16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
1Corinthians 2:14 - But the person who is not a Christian does not understand these words from the Holy Spirit. He thinks they are foolish. He cannot understand them because he does not have the Holy Spirit to help him understand. (NLV)
I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
THAT shows you & anyone reading this how MANY Denominations of “Christianity” are NOT Christians. Not being critical, seriously. Read the next quote.
Originally Posted by rainshadow1
John 3:1-24 is a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus (includes John3:16.) Jesus came up with the phrase, not the American 70's!
Verse 7, Jesus said, “ Ye must be born again”
+/- 2000 years ago. Don’t believe me. Believe Jesus.
I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
THAT show you & anyone reading this how MANY Denominations of “Christianity” are NOT Christians. Not being critical, seriously. Read the next quote.
Originally Posted by rainshadow1
John 3:1-24 is a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus (includes John3:16.) Jesus came up with the phrase, not the American 70's!
Verse 7, Jesus said, “ Ye must be born again”
+/- 2000 years ago. Don’t believe me. Believe Jesus.
So you are saying that one who was brought up in the faith and never suffered from disbelief can not be saved?
If God has been in one's heart through out conscious memory, how can one experience this momentous instant of acceptance which is described as being born again?
No, I do not think I know any converts. They all were born and raised in their faith.
1Corinthians 2:14 - But the person who is not a Christian does not understand these words from the Holy Spirit. He thinks they are foolish. He cannot understand them because he does not have the Holy Spirit to help him understand. (NLV)
. .
That’s why some CANT understand. Paul said it, I didn’t. The scriptures says it ....God said it.
1Corinthians 2:14 - But the person who is not a Christian does not understand these words from the Holy Spirit. He thinks they are foolish. He cannot understand them because he does not have the Holy Spirit to help him understand. (NLV)
. .
That’s why some CANT understand. Paul said it, I didn’t. The scriptures says it ....God said it.
“Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:39 KJV
born again is so called christians use to say you can go your whole life living like a dirtbag treating people like chit and then right before you die be born again and everything is ok. I just don't think if we have a god to answer to,that it will work that way.
pre born again-I don't give a fugg about you post born again- not giving a fugg doesn't matter
If word studies can be trusted the concept translated as born again beans born from above. It’s something that happens out side of us, an action performed by another for us.
Unfortunately, that isn’t taught and ignorant preachers have convinced believers that it’s something that they do. Then a great many people who are taught that they did it convince themselves that they have a native goodness in them and become insufferable moralists. Seems like many who participate in these religious threads have run into such people and seen through them.
Paul said that Abraham believed God, wasn’t righteous and good, but was counted that way because he trusted God. It all came from outside the man. As I read his story he was pretty rotten, a dirty rotten sinner.
First we are born with the spirit but is a flesh spirit cohabitation, the flesh dominates, Jesus's conversation with nicodemus confirms it. Spirit is like wind, we don't understand where it came from or where it goes... We won't understand him about the flesh, we would understand him less about the spirit.
What folks think is 'born again is really awareness, some of us have been aware since old enough for self awareness, others whenever in their life. Nothing magical or mystical happens, it just is.
We will be born again in spirit leaving flesh behind, before that we cannot see heaven or understand the spirit more than an unseen wind you can hear and feel.
I believe Christ didn't write anything because we really can't understand more than the simplist concepts, and we would argue over those words in ignorance. He lived his sermon.
I have spent 63 years of my life surrounded by deeply religious people of the Christian Faith. I attended Sabbath School until I was 25 years old. I have taken Bible Studies from a couple of denominations, and taken History of the Old Testament class in College. But I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
So what is the deal? Was the term recently invented just for TV Evangelism?
One of the places to shop for affordable classic shotguns is Mark's Born Again Birdguns LLC.
You give up your old ways and are born again with the holy spirit, aint nobody getin in the pearly gates unless this happens. The lord dont want trouble or those that practice it.
We all see this all the time, but the person must have it in their heart not just speak it. Ive seen folks that cursed god their whole life and in the end ask the lord to forgive them, if its truly heart felt the lord will forgive them through Jesus Christ our Savior, nobody talks or sees the lord unless you go through Christ ,
not to be a cynic, but i will anyway, about all folks i've know who claim to be "born again" were rotten bastards before they "saw the light" and are just better at hiding it afterwards.
[quote=rem141r]not to be a cynic, but i will anyway, about all folks i've know who claim to be "born again" were rotten bastards before they "saw the light" and are just better at hiding it afterwards.
I AGREE X2 myself i have always been a sinner but still the same old Christian since i was born
First we are born with the spirit but is a flesh spirit cohabitation, the flesh dominates, Jesus's conversation with nicodemus confirms it. Spirit is like wind, we don't understand where it came from or where it goes... We won't understand him about the flesh, we would understand him less about the spirit.
What folks think is 'born again is really awareness, some of us have been aware since old enough for self awareness, others whenever in their life. Nothing magical or mystical happens, it just is.
We will be born again in spirit leaving flesh behind, before that we cannot see heaven or understand the spirit more than an unseen wind you can hear and feel.
I believe Christ didn't write anything because we really can't understand more than the simplist concepts, and we would argue over those words in ignorance. He lived his sermon.
Kent
Well said.
I've read some Bible. Gone to Sunday school some as a kid. Gone to some church services in Baptist, Lutheran, Church of Christ, Methodist Churches, a few Pentecostal too.
Heard from time I was a kid the have to be born again. One of Jesus' more famous quotes. Caused me to wonder and think before I'd come to understand. Understood how it gave those pause HE told.
I would ALMOST say anyone who's been to church more than a few times or read much Bible who isnt aware of one of the most basic tenants hasnt been paying LISTENING. And, if studied theology, must have skipped a few days.
Have to live and be guided by the Spirit more than the flesh, world, Lucifer to live by the spirit. Spirits live forever. Gotta choose what rules, MOST the time.
You give up your old ways and are born again with the holy spirit, aint nobody getin in the pearly gates unless this happens. The lord dont want trouble or those that practice it.
It sounds as though you are saying that it depends on your work.
You give up your old ways and are born again with the holy spirit, aint nobody getin in the pearly gates unless this happens. The lord dont want trouble or those that practice it.
It sounds as though you are saying that it depends on your work.
born again is so called christians use to say you can go your whole life living like a dirtbag treating people like chit and then right before you die be born again and everything is ok. I just don't think if we have a god to answer to,that it will work that way.
pre born again-I don't give a fugg about you post born again- not giving a fugg doesn't matter
I’ve always found this a baffling argument even tho it’s so often cited in opposition to grace.
I think it sounds a lot better in a simple argument than it could be in practice. One does not go about life finding fulfillment in hurting others and then magically decide he is at the end of himself and cannot go on under his own steam.
I understand that the core of this argument is that a man can live as a louse and then out of mere fear of judgment run to grace but that gets at an issue prevalent inside and outside the Church.
Belief isn’t merely a verbal assent. It is deeper than that. We can say all we want that we believe A B and C or X Y and Z but if we don’t act in some fashion as tho we believe do we REALLY believe?
Western thought has managed to separate beliefs & actions but the biblical sense doesn’t allow that. Are we saved by grace alone by faith alone on account of Christ and His work alone for the glory of God alone? ABSOLUTELY! Will the faith in that reality result in a changed life? ABSOLUTELY! It’s all based upon a covenantally faithful God’s promises not upon our effort. That’s what James means when he says faith without works is dead...
not to be a cynic, but i will anyway, about all folks i've know who claim to be "born again" were rotten bastards before they "saw the light"
AKA pricks.
Dang man ya got a witness here.
The words “conversion” and “regeneration” are part and parcel to “born again” and I can say with absolute certainty that, by the grace of an unimaginably faithful God it’s as REAL as anything you can touch taste or see.
I am not the man I was when I first vent the knee before my Lord and by His continued grace poured out by ordinary means I won’t be the same the day I die as I am today.
The reaction of some to the term “born again” and the parable of the prodigal son strike me as related.
The older brother in that story bears a presumption that he has earned his place in the household and is therefore owed something greater than the prodigal. When his brother returns, instead of rejoicing over the return of one who was lost, he is jealous of his fathers celebration.
The cynicism over those whose life is turned due to God’s grace is likely a lack of understanding of the depth of sin on the part of EVERYONE, even those who are, compared to other men on a human scale, “ok” and therefore the amount of grace God has bestowed upon them as well as those they see as “worse”.
The fact is we have all sinner and fallen short of the glory of God. None seek God, all have turned to their own way. God has bestowed grace immeasurable upon all even tho we’d like to think ourselves less in need and more able to help ourselves than others.
One must be born again because we are ALL born into death and condemnation the first time.
I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's.
Not everyone is "born again" in the sense that most of us think of. If you read any lives of saints you'll find a large number of them were raised in devotion and never had a need to experience conversion.
I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's.
Not everyone is "born again" in the sense that most of us think of. If you read any lives of saints you'll find a large number of them were raised in devotion and never had a need to experience conversion.
Were they not born into a sinful nature, as Christian theology teaches that we ‘all’ are...? Were these “saints” exceptions to that...? Serious questions.
I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's.
Not everyone is "born again" in the sense that most of us think of. If you read any lives of saints you'll find a large number of them were raised in devotion and never had a need to experience conversion.
I think the key phrase here is “...in the sense that most of us think of.”
Everyone must be born again; and every one must be converted.
The issue here is that in our (revivalist, experiential, individualistic) culture the phrase that is the subject of this thread has a connotation not necessarily biblical.
Fact is, and I think this is what you may have been getting at, being born again may not be a loud thing that one can point to, but a quiet and drawn out experience that lasts for many years in a “boring” and predictable way.
I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's.
Not everyone is "born again" in the sense that most of us think of. If you read any lives of saints you'll find a large number of them were raised in devotion and never had a need to experience conversion.
And this was my point from the beginning. I know many people who have never been apart from their faith. Thus they never experience a "moment of acceptance" or "conversion" or being "born again".
According to many posting on this thread, those people are doomed to Hell.
Not to say these people do not sin, any more than any "Born Again Christian" can claim to be sin free.
I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's.
Not everyone is "born again" in the sense that most of us think of. If you read any lives of saints you'll find a large number of them were raised in devotion and never had a need to experience conversion.
Were they not born into a sinful nature, as Christian theology teaches that we ‘all’ are...? Were these “saints” exceptions to that...? Serious questions.
Everyone sins at one time or another. But it is a matter of degree. Some people REALLY ARE better than others. But that's getting off in the weeds from the real issue.
What is popularly defined as being "born again" is really just the realization that Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life and the acceptance of that reality. When this reality hits, it can't help but be accompanied by repentance. There are people who never go through that. They were baptized and raised in faith and they, seemingly naturally, are repentant and faithful from the earliest of ages. From the time they were toddlers even.
That is why you don't hear the Catholic Church speak about being "born again" in the same sense a Baptist would. That's not to say there isn't a tremendous outpouring of grace when someone "comes to Jesus". The more informed can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but the Catholic Church associates that outpouring of grace more with the act, the sacrament of confession that is a part of that in the Catholic tradition. For instance, St. Dismas, the repentant thief, received such an outpouring of grace when he confessed his sins to Jesus on the cross that he went to Heaven that day. (He also received a "baptism of desire" with that act. Specifically "Jesus remember me when you come into your kingdom.")
I believe that what enabled so many of the saints to live lives of holiness from the earliest times of childhood is the fact that they were baptized. The sacrament of baptism confers the spirit and therefore is "a baptism of water and spirit". Baptism is the Catholic "born again". Remember the definition of a sacrament - "An outward sign of an inward reality, instituted by Christ to give grace". Grace is the reception of The Spirit.
I'll avoid all the intricacies of what happens when someone decides to come to Jesus, but gets killed in an accident before they make it to confession or even baptism. We all know it's going to be OK for that person.
And let's not confuse this with the Pentecostal baptism of spirit. CMIIW on this, it is generally something that happens after one has been "born again" although they *can* happen at the same time.
Is that rambling enough for you? Sometimes it's tough straining those gnats.
And this was my point from the beginning. I know many people who have never been apart from their faith. Thus they never experience a "moment of acceptance" or "conversion" or being "born again".
According to many posting on this thread, those people are doomed to Hell.
Not to say these people do not sin, any more than any "Born Again Christian" can claim to be sin free.
I think I explained this in my post above yours.
Tyrone did a good job too; within different faith traditions this is “translated” different ways. American Evangelicalism has deciphered it as monolithic but it’s not.
I have been seeing of late (last 2 years) a bumper sticker that reads "BORN OK THE FIRST TIME"! I "heard" that this is a refutation of Christianity and the owners of those bumper stickers are atheist's.
Not everyone is "born again" in the sense that most of us think of. If you read any lives of saints you'll find a large number of them were raised in devotion and never had a need to experience conversion.
And this was my point from the beginning. I know many people who have never been apart from their faith. Thus they never experience a "moment of acceptance" or "conversion" or being "born again".
According to many posting on this thread, those people are doomed to Hell.
Not to say these people do not sin, any more than any "Born Again Christian" can claim to be sin free.
Believe the Good News, confess and repent and you are saved, whether you have HIM to help you believe by coming into your heart or not. If you believe on HIM, you are not rejecting the spirit for the flesh and as such are of the spirit and as such are reborn, or IOW, born of the spirit.
Many are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Many work for it or win the lottery. Either way they become rich. Same with being a Christian. Gifted with believe by upbringing or smitten on the road to Damascus.
Believe the Good News, confess and repent and you are saved, whether you have HIM to help you believe by coming into your heart or not. If you believe on HIM, you are not rejecting the spirit for the flesh and as such are of the spirit and as such are reborn, or IOW, born of the spirit.
Many are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Many work for it or win the lottery. Either way they become rich. Same with being a Christian. Gifted with believe by upbringing or smitten on the road to Damascus.
I think that's a very good way to put it. And much simpler!
“Consider now, a person who thinks he has years left and is taken out by a drunk driver, a heart attack or any other freak accident. He must stand in judgment with his sins not covered by the Blood of the Atonement.” - Mickey Coleman
...... I have never heard a person use this "Born Again" term until I listened to TV evangelists. I have never heard it from my family, or from my Morman friends, or Lutheran friends, or from members of "The Brethren".
THAT shows you & anyone reading this how MANY Denominations of “Christianity” are NOT Christians. Not being critical, seriously.
John 3:7, Jesus said, “ Ye must be born again”
Theres like near 25 english versions of Bible that do not use precise words 'born again' in translation of Greek: ( ἄνωθεν) anōthen
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/sBCDw8y.jpg)
Sometimes it's tough straining those gnats.