Braking chain of command or just letting the public know what's going on onboard the ship.

Phil

Just pumping the brakes.

PS. The link doesn’t work.

Hey , are those hospital ships still in dry dock idiot?

No fool, they finally made it the less than hundred mile voyage, but still sitting idle.

Phil

GFY . They are in place , not waiting 4 weeks like you originally posted you lying POS who could not even own up to your stupid post.

The challenge is leadership. How would the captain have acted in combat with casualties on board?

Captain Unlikely to Be Punished over Candid
Coronavirus Letter, Navy Leaders Say

clic pic for link to story

Capt. Brett Crozier, commanding officer of the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt, addresses local news media
at Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego, Jan. 17, 2020


1 Apr 2020
Military.com | By Gina Harkins

The Navy's top leaders aren't thrilled that a four-page letter from a ship's captain pleading for help with a novel coronavirus outbreak was leaked to the media this week, but they said they need commanding officers speaking out about challenges during the unprecedented pandemic.

Capt. Brett Crozier, commanding officer of the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, was within his rights to raise concerns with his chain of command about a troubling situation on his ship, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Michael Gilday said Wednesday.

In his letter, obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle, which posted it on its website this week, Crozier made an urgent plea to evacuate his crew after cases of COVID-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, rapidly spread onboard his carrier.

"I don't know who leaked the letter to the media -- that would be something that would violate the principles of good order if he were responsible for that, but I don't know that," Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly told reporters. "The fact that he wrote the letter of his to his chain of command to express his concerns would absolutely not result in any type of retaliation."

Related: 'Sailors Do Not Need to Die': Carrier Captain Pleads for Help as Virus Cases Surge

Crozier, in his letter, said the Navy was risking the trust it has built with sailors if more wasn't done to look out for the crew's health on the Roosevelt. The aircraft carrier was operating in the Asia-Pacific region when sailors began testing positive for COVID-19 after the ship made a port call in Vietnam in early March.

Modly hit back against the idea that the Navy isn't looking out for its personnel, calling it "not the truth."

"It's disappointing to have him say that," Modly said. "We've been working very, very hard with the ship, with the command structure, to ensure that that's exactly what we're doing. It's our priority. We need the sailors to be safe, we need them to be healthy, and we need that ship to be operational.

"We're doing everything we can," he added.

The Roosevelt is now in Guam. Modly said 2,700 crew members are being evacuated off the ship. About a quarter of the crew has been tested for the illness so far, and 93 members were positive.

Most of those crew members showed symptoms, Modly said, but seven did not. Testing will continue, he added.

The Navy's plan to leave about 1,100 crew members on the ship falls short of Crozier's request to evacuate all but 10% while it was sanitized. Modly and Gilday defended the decision to leave more crew members aboard.

"This ship has weapons on it, it has munitions on it, it has expensive aircraft, it has a nuclear power plant," Modly said. "It requires a certain number of people on that ship to maintain the safety and security of the ship."

Gilday said Crozier's letter pointed to a breakdown in communications between the captain and his chain of command. Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Russell Smith said the captain should have first communicated with families through the command's ombudsman so panicked family members didn't read about the situation on the carrier in media reports.

Ultimately though, Gilday added, Crozier is responsible for the safety of his crew.

"That's an extraordinary responsibility and ... he takes it very seriously," Gilday said. "So if he has a difference of approach and he thinks he has a better way to do it, and if he doesn't feel that we're acting at the speed of urgency, then absolutely we need to know about that and we need to adjust."

Dunno, but he had to have been a sharp guy, how many Navy guys get to Captain an air craft carrier?

Also had to know going public would be a career-ending move.

Perhaps he acted to best ensure the welfare of the people on that ship, personal cost be damned.

I'm thinking the captain fell on his sword to protect his men. It looks like a no win situation for the guy.

Carrier Commanding Officer Fired Over Plea for
Resources that Went Public

clic pic for story

Capt. Brett Crozier, commanding officer of the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71), addresses the crew
on the 1MC, Jan. 17, 2020.

2 Apr 2020
Military.com | By Gina Harkins

Twenty-four hours after the Navy's top leaders said they need commanding officers to be candid about problems, the captain of a coronavirus-stricken aircraft carrier who pleaded for help has been relieved of command.

Capt. Brett Crozier, who commanded the carrier Theodore Roosevelt, was removed from his job after a letter he wrote about the situation on his ship was sent to people outside his chain of command, Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly said.

"The responsibility for this decision rests with me," Modly said. "I expect no congratulations for it and it gives me no pleasure in making it. Captain Crozier is an honorable man who, despite this uncharacteristic lapse of judgment, has dedicated himself throughout a lifetime of incredible service to our nation, and he should be proud of that."

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Michael Gilday said he supported Modly's decision.

The pair discussed Crozier's letter at length with reporters Wednesday and said, while disappointed it leaked to the press, that it was not inappropriate for the captain to raise concerns about the situation on his ship with his chain of command.

"I don't know who leaked the letter to the media -- that would be something that would violate the principles of good order if he were responsible for that, but I don't know that," Modly said Wednesday.

On Thursday, Modly said he still didn't know whether Crozier leaked the letter to his hometown newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle.

But sending it to anyone outside the chain of command, "who had been moving and adjusting as rapidly as possible to get him the help he needed," undermined the process, Modly said.

"For these reasons, I lost confidence in his ability to continue to lead that worship as it fights through this virus to get the crew healthy," he added.

Whomever leaked Crozier's letter announced to our enemies foreign and domestic that the Theodore Roosevelt was crippled and ripe for the taking.

He deserved to be fired for leaking that letter to his home town newspaper - The San Francisco Chronicle.

+1

Careful who you're calling a POS! Calling the OP a POS is a huge insult to the rest of the POS's on the 'fire'!

This. Some dumbasses are unable to connect the dots. Most grown liebs will never be able to think enough to be able to figure things out. They never had to learn to try and figure things out. They memorized what the system fed them and stupidly think conservatives were unable to memorized the crap they were fed.

They followed the crap they were fed in school and then college and then the MSM became their mother.

Gayghost and la Roy and Sickermore and Jell0 and djs and SAC are prime examples. They were dumb and only had time to memorize the crap they were fed. They didnt have time to look around and evaluate the opposite side of the coin or they were dullards who had no interest in doing so.

Why should they have to look around and think, didnt their handlers and the MSM make the big bucks for having done it for them?

Hey, look at all the .Gov PSAs. Isnt that proof that their handlers have their best interests at heart?

If you read the letter, that's actually the opposite of what it says.

The story said they didn't know who leaked the letter. Do you have some inside information?
Link?

I read the letter and my point stands. His ship is weakened and he made that fact public.

I don't know who leaked it. Would Crozier's command leak something like this? If they did more heads should roll.

Someone else in higher command evidently though he didnt follow required chain of command protocol.

Maybe that's why Milley was on TV yesterday letting the enemy we were locked and loaded.

Wouldn't it be so totally awesome if all commanders up and down the military chain of command in times of National Emergency went public with everything they "felt" was wrong with decisions and policies they might disagree with.

I mean heck we might never have fire bombed or dropped a nuke on Japan. Should have just dropped leaflets telling them to pretty please surrender.

So our genius enemies failed to read the bazillion news stories announcing the outbreak, then happened to notice this letter?

"Gayghost and la Roy and Sickermore and Jell0 and SAC are prime examples."

You forgot Piddles! It's amazing how many Lieberal plants are on a hunting, shooting and outdoor site. -TomT

^^^^^

China read that letter and are licking their chops.

My God, you are self loathing Anti-American assh*le.

FWIW . . . In the military, you only write a letter (document) to CYA.

whenthemachinebreaksdown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF9JVvveNsM

If that were true, it would make him crazy to leak it as that had a much different effect on his ass.

Yep, letter or email to put on record. He should have sent an internal email up his chain of command and cc'd entire chain of command. Leaking to public was not wise.

So True. Any information about about sons and daughters in service is classified. Nothing can said!

China's got enough problems of their own right now. Their death toll is many times higher than they're admitting.

And they are loving it. It sure quited down their social unrest.

Based on the situation, the letter should have only gone to the next person/s directly above him in the chain of command. He sent it to various parties and from there it some how got leaked. Whether he leaked it or not, his choices in communicating the problem weren't the best.

And paid by Soros?

Does Canadian Lefty posts remind you of Diddlers?

Uh, I'm a asking fer a friend.

Would not think it would take 4 pages to tell command he had sick sailors. Maybe he wound up in the Captains chair because he was one of the folks who supported Obamas diversity. Hasbeen

This^^^.

The communication should have been a classified message since it addresses readiness, probably on the TS level when you’re talking about an asset like a carrier and the airwing.

Yep, served 20 years in the Navy. You keep it in house. It's not a matter of opinion or majority consent. He will get the BMD (Big Mahogany Desk) Until he retires which will be soon.

Maybe it did and was ignored?

If the letter, (should have been a classified message) was sent to those who needed to know IE CYA. he or the letter went outside the chain of command. Done right it could not have been swept under the rug so to speak. Readiness on a front line Aircraft Carrier is not a trivial matter.

Excellent post.

I think it was leaked by someone up his chain of command that had it in for him. You would be surprised how much jealousy and backbiting goes on within the upper ranks. Worse than a pack of old biddies and dowagers.

This was a first strike by the cchnkks in our war with them. It seems to be working and welcomed by the MSM as a tool to get rid of our inconvenient President. President Trump isn't in any position to tell them GFY yet. I hope it happens before he leaves office.

China cares nothing for 1-2 million dead from this biological weapon, and they'll stick it out as long as necessary to achieve their goal.

It just sends a hell of a message to our future military leaders. You try to save your people and your [bleep]. Gotta love this PC world when the left and some right are involved.

Wouldn't have to have been from above, below same stuff. One of the problems with delegating responsibilities. A Captain is GOD on a ship deployed, but also responsible for everything. A message like this is a PF. (Personal For) He sent a letter? Not the norm at all.

Hometown paper? His wife is probably Deep Throat.

What passage of the letter that addressed readiness are you referring to, beyond the one that said he'd go to sea and kick anyone's ass he had to?

If someone went around him to the Admiral or press, he wouldn't have hesitated to nail them for Failure to Follow the Chain of Command.

It had to be someone in the chain of command. Nobody below him would have access to the letter, except maybe the XO.

The fact that he is discussing readiness AT ALL in an unclassified document is the problem.

It’s not bringing up the presence of the disease on his ship that’s the problem; it’s the discussion of readiness of a “national asset” in an unclassified manner, where the world can see it and it can be leaked. That is the problem. Trying to protect your sailors is highly commendable but that’s not the mission of a carrier at sea. It’s to project American power and policy in contested waters. Tough thing to say but that’s how it has to be even during “peacetime ops

We don’t have the number of operational carriers that we had a few years ago and if our adversaries know one of our deployed carriers is going to be out of commission for a while, what’s the likelihood that our adversaries will try to do something stupid?

“Operational necessity” comes into play and it’s one of those phrases used to justify flying in really BAD conditions (weather and/or pitching deck) and in iin effectsaying, “we’re going to accept the risk of losing an aircraft or air crew” even during peace time ops. Search You Tube for pitching deck operations.

BFD. Sit on it.

What are the chances someone sent it to the Captains hometown newspaper to implicate him.

Perhaps someone had it in for him?

Hey GayGagger, how about those Hospital ships?

THIS is what got him fired and rightfully so..

You have no clue...

I would wonder if the COB was non-com?

SECNAV is right on the money:

Relieved for cause

"I have spoken to the TR’s Carrier Strike Group Commander, RDML Stuart Baker. RDML Baker did not know about the letter before it was sent to him via email by the CO. It is important to understand that the Strike Group Commander, the CO’s immediate boss, is embarked on the Theodore Roosevelt, right down the passageway from him. The letter was sent over non- secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the Fleet."
Jorge I know you are intimately familiar with the "court intrigue" which occurs at the Flag level. What do you think was going on between the Strike Group Commander and the Commanding Officer of CVN-71?

Yeah, I didn't think you'd actually read the letter.

Captain Crozier needs to be more than just relieved of command. The drama queen open communication of a readiness issue on a deployed aircraft carrier is way beyond poor judgment. He needs to be courts martialed out of the service , stripped of commission , and kicked out under other than honorable conditions. There’s little more important than the security of the operational condition of a deployed aircraft carrier.
Then there needs to be a review of the selection process that allowed someone so I’ll equipped to lead such a complex high stakes operation got there in the first place. The captain of an aircraft carrier should have ice water in their veins.

There's ALWAYS been a lot of friction between carrier COs and the embarked staff and of course I'll add the Air Wing Commander (CAG) as well. When it comes down to it, a Frigate CO has more leeway and authority than a Carrier CO because he has all these other "elephants" second guessing them. But to the point, the CO should have strictly adhered to the CoC, PERIOD and especially when he put it all in writing and hit "distro" on his email.

I suspect that we're getting part of the story.

I sincerely doubt the Capt did not go up through his chain of command, it's baked in his genes, and unless they have evidence that he sent the letter to the media its a typical Navy move. Could have easily been someone else on the cc line of his message that spilled it. There are no shortage of officers in the Navy who think their career depends on stepping on others.

If the CoC did blow him off and he felt he had no option but to go public, well, he knew he was going to fall on his sword and he can look in the mirror with pride that he did what he thought the right thing was.

Carrier CO's are not politically ignorant.

It doesn't take a four-page letter to notify your chain-of-command that you have a problem. Four page letters are written for larger audiences. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he probably also knew this was coming.

His Boss, the Strike Group Commander, worked right down the hall. That's where his options started and stopped.

Sorry, just HAD to fix that

My bad! Like you Jorge, I'm an aviator, so my shoe lingo slips from time to time.

No slack, in Light Attack!

Four weeks, eight weeks, two weeks, makes no difference. Mobilizing them was the right thing to do, and Trump did it.

To say otherwise is just asinine and par for the course.

Damn! I wonder what caused him to send that email? It looks like there was a lot of good-faith effort put into helping him out.
I can't imagine why he would have gone public with an acute readiness issue like that.

I went and found the letter. From reading it, the situation smells like someone made a political decision to hide the carrier's disability. That decision meant denying the personnel aboard were condemned to the disease running it's course and that ultimately would likely expose the carrier's complete disabling as well as costing the country the loss of a lot of very expensive people to replace. I suspect that Crozier was already looking at a direct rebuke from at least one superior without the balls to stand up and do the right thing. Navy line officer captains do not get there by making seat of the pants dumb decisions. They understand what politics is all about, and most particularly Carrier captains.

With all of the cryptographic equipment at his disposal making a situation report and readiness status over secure means was a no brainer. He made a statement that he felt was necessary for the good of the country, and did so knowing that it was the end of his career. There will be political fallout from this and it is going to take out some of the people above him who forced his hand. Likely some civilian and some military. Crozier is done, but I am pretty sure his last action was honorable.

Statement From SECNAV on Relief of CO Aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71)

It's impossible to render judgement because messages in flash communications between Captain and his superiors are unknown. America is not at war, the Captain simply chose health & safety of the crew.

It used to be that military personnel were some of the healthiest people available in a nation. The kind of people that could shake off C19 with just a little fever and some chicken soup. What happened?

Mandatory diversity is what happened !

He choose to surrender, instead of fight, and was promptly fired for his weakness!

I agree, as I’ve known this CAPT since his first day in the Navy. More to come on this.

When the capabilities of a strategic military asset such as a nuclear carrier are compromised, one does not broadcast it to our enemies.

That little stunt the CO (or whoever did it) pulled is tantamount to leaking Top Secret information. Espionage, treason, whatever you want to call it.


I can just about guarantee that other ships, subs, military units, bases, also have Covid-19 onboard, but that information is not being provided to our enemies.

Please do not disrupt the Campfire War College brain trust circle jerk with actual coherent thought.

Doesn’t it strike anyone else as unlikely/odd that a guy who is doing well enough in the Navy to be in charge of carrier to detonate his career without an extreme situation unfolding? Maybe the guy freaked out, maybe he actually had the well-being of his crew at heart, sees the writing on the wall and was willing to blow up his career to avoid it, who TF on here knows?

Some guys on here have obviously spent time on a carrier and maybe can help me understand better, but isn’t this carrier dead in the water wether it’s in port or floating around with the crew mission ineffective because they’re all sick?

And to the potato acting like this generation of navy men isn’t as tough as previous because the older generations wouldn’t have been effected by this “cold”...it’s not a cold with cold like symptoms for many...and these guys are stuck in a floating box living in extremely close quarters, time from first getting it to most/all having it would be extremely condensed and could start with an extremely high viral load.

The guy is an 0-6. He didn't get to that level by being stupid. However, he forgot something he learned while rising through the ranks....handle problems in-house or get guidance from above. His career is over. Mediocre oer will follow, then retirement. You don't get a second chance at that level.

And he will get a book deal...

And a job on some network to be named later.

I have seen 0-5 and 0-6 people get fired before and it didn't take SecNav to do it.

My guess is he went through and followed all the required procedures and nothing was being done. Hell, it was just a week before that the military said that it wanted all release of Covid-19 stats in the military stopped.

Phil

Didnt you also guess it would be a good idea to help Zero fundamentally change what he called the greatest country in the world?

You know what I think of you're guesser?

I guess the Captain screwed up.

That’s almost as funny as you typing “I think”.

Stick to sweet dog posts.

The crew seemed to like the Capt.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/uss-roosevelt-commander-cheered-crew

Well.....maybe he can get a job from Captain Lee on Below Deck.

No, that would be your DUMBASS guess, you know, like your "guess" about the Hospital Ships. If you actually had a CLUE about how the military works and the sanctity of preserving the chain of command, especially at that level, you wouldn't post such drivel. Then again, that's what you always do. The issue was on HOW he reported the problem and putting 20 "CCs" on correspondence electronically, means EVERYONE gets to see it including the person in the "To" line.

It was never the captain’s decision about what level of support , manning , or tasking. He was to adapt and carry out his assigned mission to the best of his ability. He may have disagreed 100% with what and how he was being ordered to proceed but that was between him and his chain of command.
It’s really a big deal to publicly announce that the aircraft carrier is having readiness issues. They are in the Pacific currently. That means they’re covering China. China now knows that air support isn’t coming from the carrier if they want to do something. Might mean nothing or they might take advantage of the situation. That’s air cap for freedom of navigation cruises in the South China Sea if we don’t want to involve Taiwan and the Philippines. We are critically short of operational carriers and we certainly don’t need to announce that one third of our ready deployed aircraft carriers is out of commission and heading for the dock. The fact we have only nine total carriers and only three are deployed at any time is a disgrace. Saying the Captain used poor judgment is being very kind.

In place for 4 day's now and have allowed exactly 3 patients onboard as of last night. 15 as of an hour or so ago.

They've made the requirements and red tape so ridiculous they cause more problems than they are worth.

New York I guess has done a little better with the Comfort with having allowed 20 patients.

Heard they had the same problem in Puerto Rico also, must be the administration...


Phil

I wonder what that captain would have thought if one of his petty officers would have stepped out of the chain of command..........for the good of the ship

There is a lot that we cannot see and a lot that seems to point in a direction for people who've done time there.

Yes you do not need a lot of people sick to substantially affect readiness. Sick pilots can disable the damn carrier. The amount of money invested in MANY of the personnel, not just pilots, and the replacement times to get new bodies with the capabilities needed are huge factors.

It is inconceivable to me that this captain had any other options available. To believe that he had not exhausted every single option available require consideration that he could be in charge of that powerful a weapons system and untrustworthy.

I read that it's navy red tape. All patients have to be taken to a shore hospital and be evaluated and then retransported to the the ship.

The Navy's got problems.

Obammy made sure of it.

He he he, was my first reaction as well, Jorge. I thought he was talking about Motel 6 there for a minute!

You dont send a letter to the newspaper to embarass any boss without knowing your job is toast. The guy is an idiot....

Did you ever consider that China may welcome this "population shaping" move it's poor little virus caused? Maybe it's not the problem to them that it is to us? Remember, Communism starves it's own people to shape the future, it has several times throughout history...

I used to work for a guy that got put in a somewhat similar situation. I won't give details, but the incident grew out of what was perceived as an unfair exercise of clout. Normal practice at the end of a conflict is that troops get rotated home on a FIFO basis. At the end of Desert Storm, a lot of units that had just arrived in the theatre were told they were going home first. These were guard units that had governors pulling for them. My guy was in command of a unit that had been in the middle of $hit-show-- been over the Line of Death for months before the action started. His unit was left in the desert with no idea of when they were going home. He did not go to the media, but he did jump the chain of command, and managed to get his men a ticket home.

His boss simply said, "You do know you're out of the service, don't you?"

My guy had always thought he'd spend the rest of his life in the Army. He'd done a spectacular job in his role. However, politics were politics, and jumping the chain of command is always at least a ticket out of the service.

"You've got to remember," he said. "Your men expect you to do what's right for them, no matter what. I knew I was sacrificing my career, but I would have never been able to command them after that-- not with the same kind of loyalty. Remember that. If you're ever put in that situation, your men come first."

About 8 years later, I was put in that situation. The company my boss and I had worked for was bought out. They sent positively excremental individuals as new managers. I found myself reporting to the COO. One day, he called me into his office and told me I needed to fire one of my subordinates for cause. He didn't care which one, and he didn't care what excuse I used. He was leaving that up to me. At the time, I had two good men working for me. One had recently had twins that had birth defects. The other was a Filipino chap that was the most loyal and trustworthy man that I've ever had the honor to have under me. Neither one had done anything wrong. They just wanted to lay someone off and not get dinged for unemployment. I also knew that the COO favored me firing the Filipino, just because he sounded foreign. I told my boss that I was not going to make the choice. He replied it was them or me. I got up and left the office.

Six months later, I was fired for trumped-up reasons, and I was successfully able to get Unemployment after disputing the dismissal. My one guy landed on his feet and the other fellow, the Filipino, has stayed for over a decade. I had a cloud over me, because my previous employer would only verify dates of employment and nothing else. I was out of work for some time. As it turned out, one of the references I used to finally get a good job was my old boss that had been in the Army.

This is SOP.
My wife has been instructed by the legal department where she works, that for liability reasons, when contacted about the performance of a previous employee, she is to only verify dates of employment, nothing more.

Yeah, but when you're laid off, you ( or at least I) walk away with a nice letter explaining that it was Reduction in Force or Elimination of Position or something like that. If you're canned outright, there's a blank there that doesn't go unnoticed. I was at the top of a Fortune 500 IT dept., and I'd been tapped to be IT Director for a large division in a new company. It made for a tough bounce. I knew it was coming, and I didn't flinch.

On the other hand, I had the father of a friend who was in far higher a position in IT for a much larger company. He was tricked into moving his whole IT staff to another city. They waited until everyone was settled and then RIF'd them all and gave my buddy's dad a promotion. It left the guy completely broken. He resigned and never worked again.

Look, a guy that far up in the Navy should not have gone to the media. However, I understand him sacrificing his career for those under his command. I can't imagine how a man in that position could live if he'd let sailors die knowing there was an alternative. The Navy should have anticipated circumstances. I'm sure they have gamed this thing out before. I knew someone who was on the TR years ago. He was regularly sent to special exercises where they'd sit around for a week doing things like discussing The Caine Mutiny and 12 O'Clock High and their relation to contemporary warfare. Plague on a warship is not a new concept.

whenever i had a past or departing employee ask for a letter of reference, i did what one of my past bosses told me to do, 'you write the letter and i'll sign it'.

most likely what happened based on people i've talked to

Why in hell's name did the TR have a 5 day liberty call in Da Nang Vietnam with the virus raging in nearby China?? "