I don't consider myself a penny pincher, but that's the number I get when, after a lot of research, I place the items I think I am going to need to get set up to reload a single caliber, .45 ACP, in the shopping cart of a popular reloading manufacturer.

At a rough savings of $0.10 / round reloaded over factory (under normal circumstances), that means 13,089 rounds of .45 ACP before I break even, and an initial cash outlay of a couple grand in equipment and components to get there.

By all accounts, it's a great machine, capable of loading many other calibers, but adding equipment to make the press capable of loading another caliber can be, again, a couple hundred bucks per caliber.

I'd like to load .223, .257 Wby, .6.5 Creedmoor, .270, 7-08, .308, .30-06, .300 Win, .380, 9mm, 10mm, .38 Spl, .357 Mag, .41 Mag, and .45 ACP, at LEAST.

Somebody pull me off the ledge, or push me over, please.

Damn, I thought that was the ransom amount to be paid to free Flave.....

I handload an azzload of stuff but I do not load 9mm, 40, 45 ACP and 7.62x39 these days.

79S
Cinch
RenoH

Run Dillion presses iirc. Maybe they can help you decide whether to jump or bail.

😎

I enjoyed handloading for decades. It benefited my shooting but for me it was almost as rewarding a hobby as shooting itself. That stage has passed and I only load now for cartridges that are insanely expensive to purchase or difficult to find.

Are you looking for another hobby?

No longer is reloading about monetary savings, rather, it's about tailoring a specific load to a specific firearm to produce the desired results. That and the stress-relieving value reloading can provide.

Just a guess...

I used a single stage Lee for years, worked just fine but slow. Upgraded last year to a turret press. Faster now, and my many other calibers dies are in the heads all adjusted and easy to switch. Depends on your volume. The Blue ones can load a lot in a short time, but do cost a bit.

Really?


You guys cant save money by reloading?

I reload for cartridges that are expensive to buy or if I want a specific bullet, or it’s a cartridge that’s not readily available or I am loading for accuracy.

I thought it was his Stimulus Check.

Not really. Been reloading shotguns on a 600 Junior since I was a kid and rifles on a Rockchucker since I was in my early 20's.

This is about wanting to shoot pistols a lot more, getting into a progressive press, and, being in Cali, getting ahead of the game.

Sounds like you are looking at a Dillon. If you want to produce metric schittloads of ammo, they are the way to go especially for handgun and military rifle calibers.

Ah, the folly of youth.

Just shoot a 6.5 Creedmore and skip the reloading.

Well, since you have nothing better to do....

Cut the 6.5 gear since you'll be loading the 270.

Rick goin for Smartest Man on the Fire LOL.

I quit reloading anything I have to go chase brass on the ground for, to include .45 ACP.

That said, I think that even if you don't shoot enough to ever break even money wise, the satisfaction you get plus the ability to shoot the bullet you want to shoot at the speeds you want makes up for it, at least it does for me.

This is accurate ^^^^^😬😎

If you don't need a progressive, run a turret press (or two).
Buddy had a 650 full setup, hated it.

He has a used Lyman Spar T for a couple pistol cartridges (left set up) and a new T mag set up for a couple rifles.

My dad bought a 650, full setup, to run .45 acp and .357.
It was such a PITA to the old cranky bastid, he bought a 2nd 650.
Of course its still in the box, has been for the last 3 yrs.

IPSC and full auto owners, progressive makes sense.
Hunter guys............proly don't need em.

I could make a couple calls and probably get you everything you need gratis.

Man... you sound just like me.

Just do it.. A year from now you won't even remember debating it.

Happy with my Dillon 550C, and with options I think they are 800 or so, less dies. Mine really cranks ammo.
You are buying time. I can get done in an hour that used to take a day.

Rick, looks to me like the operative word is “machine”?

Somewhere back 50 years or so I purchased a Rockchucker. It’s been opening doors since for the cost of a set of dies. Only progressive press I use is a MEC 9000 for a 20 ga. It came into my life when I was shooting 12-16k shells/year. Other stuff for pistols and rifles gets done here and there when I have little else to do. Clean 200-300 cases today, prep them tomorrow, load 50 here, 100 there etc. It’s a nice hobby, but mass production isn’t part of my menu.

Dear Santa,

I want a new digital powder thrower.

Love,

Beaver ❤️😂

have everything to load 45s, 40, 38 super. Dillon 550, we use to shoot 3-4000 rounds a week between my dad and i back in the 80s 90s so it was worth it. also have everything to cast bullets.

did you factor in the value of the machines and tooling when you sell it? Probably $20 at least

I used to shoot more, and reloaded since I was a kid.
NEVER was for cost savings, was just to get the most accurate hunting round per rifle.
Have a couple rifles that do well enough w factory ammo.

I do miss sitting in the basement chilling out crafting ammo.
That and casting bullets.

Great crappy weather activities.

WTF????


Uh you are buying the wrong machine.

Do you handload the above calibers already?

Do you have the die sets?

I am guessing you are looking at a Dillon press?

We used to load .45 ACP on a RCBS Jr, for a Thompson SMG.
Go through a weeks work in 10 minutes, pick up brass for an hour and go home.

We don't all have the free slave labor you have......

When I made the jump to a dedicated press for handguns, I went with the Dillon 550.

I thought it was the best compromise of money vs speed.

But I had no desire to load rifle ammo on mine, as I lean more towards the precision aspect of loading for those.

Rick, I don't know which progressive reloading machine you are looking at, but if you just concentrate on reloading handgun calibers, the Dillion Square Deal B would probably be a lot less than the number you just quoted. On the other hand if you want to reloading rifle calibers too, just go ahead and jump into the dep end of the pool and get a Dillion 750XL, configured how you want it. i don't think that it will get cheaper in the future. Thirty years ago I chose a Dillion 650 and I have not regretted that choice, I load 9mm and 5.56mm on it. Regarding the rifle calibers, for cartridges like 300 Win mag or 257 Wby, do you really need to crank out hundreds of rounds of ammo, the main reason for using a progressive reloader or would a single stage or turret press suffice for those cartridges.

I'd have to love reloading and believe the reloaded 45 ammo was that much better than factory ammo to be worth the money and the time it took to reload it. You'd be reloading when you could be shooting.

With the availability of cheap steel cases Soviet ammo reloading pistol makes no sense imho.

The Russian stuff while a bit dirty is very reliable and incredibly accurate. Who wants to chase pistol brass around anyways...

Continue to load the 257Wby and 300Win single-stage. Prep all your bottle-neck cases on your single stage, tumble, then prime, powder, and seat with the Dillon. For straight-wall pistol cases, just do it all on the 550. Ball/spherical powders are your friend. Ramshot Hunter in the 270 and '06. Big Game or '15 in the CreedMoor, 7-08, and 308. '15 is the only extruded powder I've had good luck running through my Dillons. +/- .02gn w/'15. +/- .01gn w/ball/spherical.

With prepped brass I can run 100 bottle-neck cases in just under 15min.

Rick do this. I was swayed into the Hornady system years ago whilst still in Cali. The 1000 .45 XTPs gratis is what swayed me.

I already had my penny stash counted out...

Were I to have remained a California resident, I would have definitely bought reloading gear for handgun ammo. There is a 100% certainty that the state will continue to focus on making ammo as hard to get as possible, and the background check crap is just the first real shot across the bow. I suspect that within 5 years, you will not only have to go through a background check to buy ammo, you'll be limited to something like 100 rounds a month and will have to account for every round. They're going to make it so even the most careful person violates the law and loses his rights.

Granted, they'll also probably start regulating the sale of primers, powder and projectiles, but that will be a lot harder to enforce. The ammo bans are low hanging fruit for the nanny state.

Back when me, dad and bro were shooting sporting clays (2 leagues), trap and skeet - got pretty good at loading cheap.

Then realized that no matter how cheap we got, and assuming our time was FREE, we still couldn't beat the price per box if you ordered a pallet at a time. Literally a pallet of 12 gauge cases on the back of a truck. Rio IIRC

You might be there - if you got the volume, storage and up front cash.

ETA: That was 20 years ago. Don't know the spread now - loads to pallet quantities but it's worth looking at.

I bought a Dillon 650.

getting it setup and dialed in is a PITA, but once it's on... it rocks. in just a few evenings, I can kick out 1k+ rounds.

I dont use it for bolt rifles, but my pistols and high volume rifles.... absolutely.

it ROCKS on 45acp. making 9mm is a bigger PITA for some reason.

also use it for 38spl and 357, less frequently.

I once had an RCBS 4x4 press that I didnt like at all. far more finicky/rickety.

Yeah for rifle cartridges I think I opened the door with the .223. Can't imagine needing to reload in those quantities for .257 Wby, or .300 WM under normal circumstances. And yes, all my precision stuff will remain on the Rockchucker either way. But at some point, if all I need are dies ... I dunno.




Duly noted. Handguns are the primary reason I am contemplating this move, and it's not just about saving money, but nevertheless, duly noted.

Don't jump!!

You best get to pullin' that Handle son you ain't got time to type, you got a long way to go..........

Unless you're planning to leave Cali, you are wise to plan for the future there. I don't have a progressive press, but if I lived in Cali, I'd be considering one, stocking up on reloading supplies, and buying lead bullet casting equipment and supplies.

You might have to spend some of your ascotsandargyle.com money.

The thought has crossed my mind that I might just be better off calling Darrik and Whittakers.

X2

That was 20 years ago. Given all that's happened, I can't believe the economics have inverted.

It ended up being like 15 cents a box but at a couple thousand rounds a week, not counting tournaments- it made sense then.

Appreciate the offer, but I'd be much more amenable to a swap/barter or a win/win of some kind (that did not involve hostages ).

That’s what I tell my wife, math isn’t her strong suit

We all have a duty to fight this fight with California. If they can get away with this anywhere, they can get away with this anywhere.

I'm beginning to come around to the cheap Russian steel case as well. Can't shoot it in a managed (indoor) range however They don't allow it.

Ive been shooting it for years. Had a Glock 19 that ate well over 100,000 rounds of it and never suffered from it

Yep, reloading supplies are now much more expensive. I don't use enough shotgun ammo to justify the expense. Handguns about even. I shoot a S&W 52 the most and you can not buy wadcutter ammo cheap. I have yet to find a press, powder measure that will through a 2.7g of Bullseye well. Rifles I have odd ones, so much cheaper to reload. 9mm, 45 ACP, 223 it's getting hard to save by reloading. The steel case stuff I do not like, whatever the price. Might be foolish on my part but I value my firearms.

I notice no one has as of yet recommended that I load .45 ACP on my Rockchucker ... all I'd need is dies.

Saw a YouTube video of a guy loading handgun ammo on a single-stage. I'm thinking only in an emergency would I be compelled to pull the handle that many times per round.

I'd never do semi auto on the 'Chucker but 45Colt for the Vaquero? Yeah...

Yeah, wheelgun stuff on the Rockchucker I can see. Makes sense.

The job can be done for less.

If one wants to go Dillion then all bets are off.

Is this about loading large quantities of ammo or is it about California’s push to regulate gun ownership out of existence?

Couple of 550's here.

Well worth the investment and GREAT for precision rifle loads.

I load 45 HP on my single stage, but normally just a few hundred rounds for testing and loading for defense. Practice ammo you need a progressive. I have a progressive for volume runs. If you’re doing straight wall, do yourself a favor and get the lee crimp die, I love those things.

What are you buying, a Camdex 2100?

I have a lee loadmaster that I use for the handgun stuff. I can get 400 rounds per hour out of it pretty easily. About 1/3 the cost of a Dillon 750 too! Yeah, the Dillon is a better press but I haven’t had any issues with any of the ammo the LM has produced.

With the exception of 223 blasting ammo, I reload rifle ammo on my single stage or turret press.

I don’t load 45 ACP, 9mm, 380, 22lr, or 12 ga

I do load 44 mag...

Although I have a Dillon 450 (I think) I use it as a single stage....set up for .308, along with a couple of RCBS single stage presses. With the other single stage presses, I load 223, 300BO, 9mm, 380, 45acp with the capability to load 38/357 as well.

I decided several years ago that while I would not limit myself to a certain number of firearms, I would limit myself to what I will reload. So I limited myself to what I stock in supplies as well. Only have .223 and .30 caliber rifle projectiles in weights suitable for .308 and 300BO, only .355 caliber in weight suitable for .380 and 9mm and of course have to have stuff for .45acp. I love the idea of some other calibers, but I won't be purchasing a firearm for them as I don't buy factory ammo unless it is highly discounted!

So with a single stage loading say 9mm, I usually go through 3 die changes for one piece of brass........resize, flare, seat. These days I find that its more enjoyable to load a bunch to a stage of say.... sized, primed and flared then bag the brass for later powder and seating. I hand prime all my brass with a old Lee priming tool and I weigh every charge on a scale. I guess its a good thing I don't charge myself for labor as it would be a deep hole to climb out of!!

I've never totaled the amount of money I've spent on reloading over the past 60+ years. I've upgraded equipment and now have
- 2 RCBS presses
- 3 scales.
- 26 sets of dies
- a number of case length/headspace gauges (Wilson)
- probably 40 loading manuals
- and plenty of other stuff.

Lot's of money invested, but it's been worth it.

Same and same..

Rick, you own a website. Order multiple progressives so you don't have to change over.

Bet if we took up a collection we could get that easily to pay Rick to keep him banned.

1) Your in Kommiformia. Better to stock up and set up now for reloading before the Komunistas in Sactown go after that next.

2) Get A C&R 03ffl and buy ammo direct to your door.

3) See one and two.

Fat

re: #2, is that really all I have to do? Any caliber? Not just for C&R stuff?

Geno

I will have to be a good citizen report you to LA county sheriffs for violating the state law.

Sounds good and paddler and northman and starman and the rest
Of the trolls.

That and Kommiefornias Certificate of Eligibility.

You'll be giving the Feds and State a lot of private info but if your buying andselling guns you've already handed over a ton of private info.

Couple hundred bucks over several years to maintain the licensing as well.

If your burning thru a lot of ammo a month it makes sense. Not to mention theother license benefits if you like to collect firearms.

I make my own 300 BO brass, I can make 300-400 an hour, I also have tool to attach to it to roll out primer crimps.

Not in a position to do either, but have to say that your number seems staggering to an old guy who started reloading in 1962 for two purposes - quest for high accuracy in a rifle as well as economics. A beginning shooter with an 1895 Mauser in 7x57 and a first-time hunter with no skills and high hopes. A "C" style press was about $10, dies at about $3.75, powder at $1,50 a pound, and 140 grain Speer or Sierra bullets not much for a box. All relative to the value of today's dollar, of course. Didn't need brass - just pulled those 175 grain round nose bullets from the Win ammo that came with the rifle (3 boxes) - and paid Sears & Roebuck $14 dollars plus US mail postage for the rifle and ammo. That little beginning led to a load of enjoyment and many, many different firearms/cartridges over the next 58 years - but still don't spend a bunch on reloading. Well, my lovely wife did give me a nice automatic powder scale for Christmas a few years back - still trying to figure out how to make the most of it - it does not have a knocker on the side. Yes - times and values have changed quite a bunch - good shooting, not so much. Come to think of it - go ahead and jump.

Not quite Geno

An FFL type 1 or C&R , plus a Certificate of Elegability is required to buy mail order ammo in California

It is my understanding they do not give FFLs to folks in residential neighborhoods and such in most of CA...

Sitka,

I do believe we here in Cali can get the C&R FFL still, and since it's a Curio and Relic, I do believe we can get them here in komiefornistan homes.

Seems I need to check on that cert. of eligibility though.

FatCity, I don't go through that much ammo a year, but you know the situation here. If I want to do things all legal eagle like, I have to drive to Redding to get much of a selection. There's one place in Burney that has an OK assortment, but they seem relatively high price. Our Ace Hdwr has some also, but not a very good selection. And there's that price thing over here.

Thanks guys for all the info.

Geno

i have loaded a lot of 45acp on a rockchucker, it's just slow.
i still use it for limited amounts.
what i do tend to do is use the dillon to load a bunch at one time. an example would be two or three thousand rounds.
i have some dillon equipment but dies and stuff are also used with the rockchucker.

i had to look up that certificate of eligibility, has to be renewed every year. 71bucks to obtain, and 22bucks a year renewal.

i wish i knew out of curiousity how many people sneak across the border into arizona to buy ammo?

Especially when suppliers like Targetsports and Davids offer very good prices and free shipping for purchasing by the case....But I did buy the Dillon 650 and all components just in case that changes .





Foster Co Ax has been a great purchase along with 2 Rock Chucker presses for back up.

I load just cause I like doing it. I probably ain’t saving cshit

I know that in the last 7-8 years I have MADE OVER 10K by being a reloader. first off I do gunshows weekly. in the last few years I have been buying people out when they decide to stop reloading. everytime I do I keep anything that I use then sell the rest off at the shows. 4 years ago I bought a whole room full of presses,powder,bullets,primers and abot any tools you could want. I payed 1200.00 for it all and put a 1000.00 worth in my shop. I sold the rest for almost 6k. I have bought out 10-12 guys sense then. I buy lots of prtial boxes of bullets at gunshows for a few dollars a box. about the only I find in reloading that I ever need is a few cans of powder that I use a lot.

rick,most pistol ammo had been running so cheap the last few years that it was not worth loading your own. with this virus pushing prices up and making stuff hard to find again it may now be worth loading it again. BUY IN BULK WHEN YOU CAN.

Money is no obstacle in the pursuit of fun.
Do it.

Rick, the nearest analogy I can come up with is buying a camper. It's a huge upfront cost compared to a few nights in hotels each year.

(If you're thinking of getting a Dillon, try to find a used one and when you do, send it to Dillon for a rehab. They used to do that for free and it'll come back as good as new.)

IF you have the time - go to a single-stage press... It'll save you a ton IF all you're going to reload is the .45... I have the machine that I believe you might be looking at - and I use it for 5-6 different calibers.. It does a very good job, BUT you still really have to pay attention to a lot of things in order to have great success.

Now - IF you're going to add all those other choices, then the bigger machine can make sense - especially considering the differences in reloaded rounds prices compared to retail prices..

You're going to load a lot of rounds with that unit - so be prepared for a LOT of shooting..

Wouldn’t be worth it to me. For high volume stuff, pistol and AR, I’m buying factory stuff now. All my rifle stuff gets loaded on a single stage press. I have considered caliber specific Dillons for 9mm and AR, but like you, can’t make it pencil out.

John

Do it,do it,do it!

If you stay in CA then your 1300 is the price of insurance that you will be able to source what you want to shoot.

Don't know about AZ but I do know that people are importing it from NV.

Giving away my age....I started handloading in '73.....single stage RCBS JR

Now using an RCBS Rock Chucker......load many 40's for target....but use factory self defense

when the 40 is carried...the only factory ammo other the 22LR I have ever bought

45 ACP range brass can be cheap...if not free......9mm steel cased factory is cheap..or was before all the virus

Handloading once set up & established.....is a great hobby....especially loading oddball varmint cartridges

Just looking at value....

Dillon 550 purchased 7 years ago and thousands of rounds loaded on it.

Value of the used machine because of price increases and lifetime warranty is 85-90 % of original price.

Icing on the cake still loading 38 special for 10 cents a round with careful shopping.

Jump off the ledge and enjoy the blue machine

By prepping my brass single-stage on a Co-Ax then priming, charging powder, and seating a bullet on a 550, I see no difference in accuracy vs. doing all of the steps on the co-ax and using a Harrells or digital powder dispenser, assuming that I've chosen a powder that meters well through the Dillon. When sizing bottleneck cases, pulling the neck past the expander-ball is the "death-blow" to powder dispenser accuracy, no matter what powder you use. If using bushing dies sans expander ball you can run the entire process on a 550 and maintain exceptional accuracy.

The one caveat I make to prepping single-stage is 223. I have a separate tool-head for my 650 set up just for prepping 223's. Mighty handy w/the auto case-feeder. I lay cases out on a cookie sheet, spray them down w/One-Shot, dump them into the case-feeder and just pull the handle until the case-feeder is empty. This completes the re-size/de-prime. Then I dump them into the tumbler for as long as it takes me to prep the next batch. Dump the now tumbled cases into the separator, dump the media back into the tumbler and go again. I do this re-sizing without all the other steps again, because of the expander ball issue buggering powder-charge accuracy.

I loaded 1500 rounds of 223 on both the 550 and 650. 26gn of H335 and a 50 V-Max. I cannot discern an accuracy difference between the 2 presses in any of my 223's be they AR type or bolt action. I prefer the 550 to the 650 for ease of setup/swap-out to different cartridges. The 650's speed is undeniable, ~2x faster than a 550.

Currently on a pair of 550's I load 223, 223AI, 22-250, 243, 243AI, 270, 7-08, and 308. I have one 550 set up for small primers and one set up for large. The 550 set up for small primers my dad bought ~1990ish, the one set up for large was the demo unit out of one of the Scheels stores when they combined 2 smaller stores into one large store. Neither have been back to Dillon ever, for anything.

Assuming single-stage prep, and a powder that meters well, a 550 will load 1/2MOA ammo. It might do better, but, I can't consistently shoot better than that to really know.

In a perfect world where convenience and simplicity trumps $$, and assuming you had enough space, you'd have one 550 set up for large primers and 2 650's one set up for small primers, one set for large. You'd run the 223's , 380's, and 9MM on the small primer 650. All of the large pistol primer stuff on the other 650. The 6.5, 270, 7-08, 308, and 30-06 on the 550.

550's and Forster:



650 and SL 900:

You really need to get out of CA. In real states, there's no reason to load 9mm or 45 and all the rifle cartridges, even if loading for competition, can be handled on a single stage.

Maybe you should just make friends with somebody in Nevada so you can order handgun ammo by the case.

I didn't read the entire thread but I don't have a need to load high volume 223 and have no interest in loading any other bottleneck cased cartridge fast.

I chose Dillon SDB's and have one setup for small primers and one for large, 380, 9mm, 10mm for now and it cranks them out plenty fast.

Pure lunacy to not at least have the capability of loading your own ammo, independent your state of residence. I don't want to have to curtail or stop my recreational shooting because there's been a run on ammo or components. If I can't load my own, I am 100% beholden to whatever I can stockpile. Having a few presses and some components is a hedge against shortages.

I have been controlling reloading costs since getting into reloading almost 50 yrs. ago. At that time I bought an entire RCBS set up from a co-worker going thru a divorce. Since that time I have upgraded my equipment several times, most equipment is purchased off the internet mostly eBay. I won't pay more that 50% of retail even for NIB equipment and look for free shipping too. As for loading manuals I stopped buying them long ago, I borrow from buddies and copy the info for cartridges that I load. That info goes into caliber specific ring binders kept right beside my loading bench. At one time I was reloading large quantities of handgun ammo, I built an electric powered press to handle re-sizing chores. I've built my own powder measures, quick change press mounts and lots of other reloading equipment, there are lots of ways to save money. Cast bullets I found an instate source to save on shipping costs and made a 100K bullet purchase. The caster gave me his best price and allowed me to mix-n-match, this purchase was split up amoung buddies and co-workers. Everyone got what they wanted, in quantity and at best price cost. I also buy out guys quitting reloading, often times I'm able to purchase for pennies on the dollar and sell for a thousand or more profit on the deal. Recently I bought a pickup truck load of factory ammunition, set it up at the local swap meet and it was all gone in a matter of 2-3 hours.

13K rounds of .45 ammo wouldn't have got me thru a season when I was actively competing in IPSC. Back then, I was shooting 3 times a week, 50-51 weeks a year. Of course, I was single and didn't have anything much else to do, but I was dedicated to it, for danged sure.

You don't really save that much reloading, BUT you can shoot 3-4 times more than buying factory ammo, if you cast your own bullets, etc. IOW, the cost of, say, 9mm ammo @ $8.99/box is about 3 times what it would cost you to reload the same with cast bullets at roughly $3.00/box. Those are 1980 prices, more or less, but it is still relevant. When you look at the cost of the more pricey stuff like .44 Magnum or 10mm, your "savings" are even more substantial, because that factory ammo is a LOT more costly, but the component prices are NOT, again, especially if you're shooting cast bullets

. If you shoot jacketed pistol bullets, you'll only load about 100 rounds for the price of 50 rounds of factory stuff. The savings are still there, just not as pronounced.

I have no idea how many rounds of .45ACP I've loaded over the years, but I shot enough to crack the frame of a Colt GM, and it was all FUN. In 9mm, I've turned two Browning HI Powers into rattling wrecks, purely from hard shooting and a lot of it. When I was working at an indoor shooting range, I'd go in early and run thru fifty rounds every day, just to stay in practice.

Savings are even better with .38 Spl/.357, as you rarely if ever lose any brass, and the powder charges are modest. Primer and bullet prices are about the same as with any other pistol cartridge, your savings will be in powder costs.

My 650XL was more then easy to setup, not sure what's considered to be a pita about any aspects of setup, I'm loading 9 and 40 and have been nothing but happy with the purchase, I once loaded a 1000 40 on my single stage and would never wish that on anyone, a hundred here or there maybe but anything over 500 give me a Dillon.

I say jump!

I was born into a handloading family

With 5 presses (3 dedicated full progressives) hundreds of pounds of brass and bullets.
More primers and powder then I care to try and count not to mention having about 200 sg ft of my house dedicated to handloading....there's no telling how much money Ive invested to have the luxury to do it as I please and when I please.

Like today......I can roll as many of anything I'd like but many of you store bought ammo guys can't buy ammo today.

A single stage qualifies.
What's the difference between buying 50,000 rounds of ammo and buying 50,000 rounds worth of components?

Nobody who's ever loaded on a good progressive is EVER going back to loading on a single-stage.

The difference between 50K rounds of ammo and 50K rounds worth of components is that you'll have less than 50% of the $$ tied up into components. You also have options, WAY more options.

I like having prepped brass ready to go, I don't necessarily have to have a bajillion rounds loaded. With prepped brass ready, if I want to try a new component, it's easy and fast. With prepped brass ready, I can run enough ammo for a big game rifle to get ready for and through season in < 1hr.

"Nobody who's ever loaded pistol rds on a good progressive is EVER going back to loading on a single-stage."


Couldn't have said it any better than this ^^^^^

Rick,
Were you looking at a 750 still?

Regarding going blue, I would do it and not look back. I'd also pony up for Dillon dies.

I absolutely hate reloading on a single stage press. It is the most mind numbing, minutia-driven repetitive work there is. You couldn't pay me enough to do it for someone else. I only do it for the results. I'll be moving in the direction that Horse1 describes above for several rifle rounds with the 550.

For 223 (and anything pistol), an auto indexing press is awful nice, and case feeders and bullet feeders don't hurt either. You're buying time there, along with capability and capacity.

All that advice X10 for someone in your state.

I load all of my pistol ammo on my rockchucker.

I do several hundred at a time.

The job is done in stages and when it comes time to load powder and bullet it goes fast.

I have several gallon bags of brass that is ready for priming and loading at any time.

Done in stages breaks it up to where it's not like work.

YUCK!!!

Is it true that if you cast bullets AND reload - it's basically free?

Them bullets start lookin' awful tasty after a couple hundred rounds of pistol on a single stage, and I fear I might eat one.

I bit the Dillon bullet in the 80s.. its LONG paid for... no worries as they say.

I don't care for that personally, but what you do along with the use of powder dippers, it isn't the worst.

Rick, if you have the availability of bullets, powder, cases, primers but all the 45ACP ammo is off the shelf then its worth doing it. I am not sure I would start at the $1300 mark, maybe there is something that is faster than a single stage, but costs a few bucks less.

That's a sure way to spend your life paying exponentially more for what you want.

So you think that's expensive?

Try chewing, smoking, or swilling beer for a year and see what you've pissed off!!

Yep 100%

Wait till you learn to make your own beer - then lust after fully electric brewery in your basement with multiple glycol chilled fermenters, bright tanks, yeast ranching, draft system, and the bar to go with...

Well, after reading all these responses and thinking about it a little bit, I know I am OK with paying a premium up front for the good stuff. Never had an issue with that when I plan on having something a long time. Buy once, cry once, I get.

What's sticking in my craw a little bit is the cost and procedure for setting up for multiple calibers thereafter. Upon further examination, it's more like $300 per caliber swap, and the path leads to a bunch of toolheads and powder measures and dies all preset. I'd have to rig some kind of wall mount or cabinet or something where I'd have, oh, ultimately half a dozen or more of these preset assemblies. I am sure it can be done more inexpensively, but it seems like every step back one takes requires more and more hassle when it comes to caliber swap. I don't have the experience with the machine to know where the sweet spot might be for me in terms of how much stuff to have preset, but I do know for sure, the path set by the company leads to half a dozen toolheads/powder measures/die setups mounted on my wall for easy caliber swaps.

Along these lines, I see a lot of guys actually advocate for and end up with multiple presses, precisely due to the hassle of swapping calibers. I don't know that I want to do that.

So now I am looking at a different color. Looks like they have a similar five-station machine for about $1300, with a case feeder, but they also include a bullet feeder, which is an extra $500 with the first color. Also, caliber swaps seem much easier, without the need for multiple preset assemblies, and more along the lines of swapping dies. And my experience with the second color is all good in therms of quality.

Looking for downsides ...

Assuming you're not swapping primer size or brand and assuming we're talking about a 550.

If you have a toolhead set up w/dedicated powder measurer and dies for each chambering. Caliber swaps are <30sec. Disconnect the powder reset linkage, pull 2 pins, slide tool-head out, slide new toolhead in, re-connect powder bar reset linkage and you're done.

Swapping primer size and/or brands of primers adds ~10min to the swap.

About $150 to have a dedicated toolhead/powder measurer/chambering for a 550.

Dont do it Rick, it's a trap! 😉

If you need the volume then a progressive is the answer. They have a TON of accessories to make thing even faster. I went the cheaper route, a turret press. Not as fast, but I don't load more than a couple of hundred at a time. (pistols) I do what several others have mentioned, I do it in stages, I have a ton of prepped case all ready to go. Doesn't really take that long to finish the process. I start again when the pre-done cases get low. For rifles, I don't really need volume, as mine are hunting calibers. A range trip might use 20 or so per rifle. Pistols, are the weak spot for time invested.

I'm not going to read this whole thing, but a decent turret press isn't going to cost you, and it's fairly fast. I can do 9mm on mine at a pretty good clip. My buddy's Dillon is faster. The Dillon isn't as fast to set up however. 2 cents worth...

Yes, a friend has a Dillon, and you will invest a lot of time and effort getting the press setup and learning how it runs. Changing from rifle to pistol is another learning curve. I like things simple and like seeing each step easily. A Turret press is very simple to use and operate.

All a turret press saves is the time to screw in the dies, a small time saver *before* Hornady lock and load bushings.

On my Lee, I just leave all the dies locked in the head for pistol calibers. Now that it's set up I throw the head in the press, set up my powder drop, double check weights a few times, and I'm good to go in 5 minutes. It may not be ideal for pistol match reloads, but for plinking it's fine.

We don’t all get to use unauthorized child labor to work the press

It better not be red.

Difficulty of switching between calibers is generally overblown IME, and while it is slower on an auto-indexing machine, it isn't a lot slower. You make that time back in the first 40 handle pulls.

How much is 'Flave's bail? $1308.91?

$1300 bucks? I ain't gettin it.

$450 bucks for a Hornady L-n-L from Grafs. 35 bucks for a shell plate. 80 or 90 bucks for a huge box of once fired brass from gunbroker. All same brand. 60 bucks for 2000 primers.

We are at $600. Good gosh that leaves a pile of cash for bullets & powder.

A buddy has a LNL and has had a case of buyers remorse just after buying it...........Reds cheaper but it never will come close to blue!

I know that I've not heard a bad word about blue, & I don't know anything about a L-n-L, but everytime I sit down in front of my 25 year old Pro Jector I wonder about all the re builds on the Blues.

I guess just don't load a much as the guys on the blues. I would like to try one some day, but my PJ hasn't given me a reason.

Progressive 5 hole.....1000 rounds = 1005 pulls

Turret 4 hole........1000 rounds = 4000 pulls

I like to practice with the loads I use in the field.. and that good sir is pricey unless you reload.

There is no way I could save money reloading cheapo rounds.

I own two Hornady AP LnL presses and niether has ever missed a lick

I reload .223 for seventeen cents per round

I guess one could do the math and figure out what the cost is per pull. Unless I start shooting a bunch more I can afford more pulls than $$.

I have owned both blue and red. You cannot go wrong owning a blue machine. However I prefer red over the blue 650. Primer set up, use of bushings and there is a reason why some blue owners use a red powder measure set up. Red is much more capable at loading larger rifle cases.

have had the primer tube on the Dillon go off once.

Were you able to figure out what caused that?

Rick, I will be curious to hear your thoughts about the differences. Over the last week I have loaded about 700 rounds of 9mm and .380 on a Rock Chuck. I don't mind it too much, but I think I'm ready for a change. I really like that using my Uniflow with a baffle and fish tank pump, I can throw charges of Unique or 700X +/- .1 gr.

405wcf

Rickbin-

13089 sounds like a lot, but is only about 250 rounds a week. That much practice will make you
an awfully good marksman.
Oldcuss

Remsen already said he'd contribute some shekels if you brought back Clarke.

Free Flave... do we need to start a go fund me?

New plan/site. Go Fugg Me.

You could probably do it on your existing single stage press for a $30 die set.......just sayin.

But that's not the point of the thread. He's in Cali, no ammo to be had, ...........

I load for around 2 dozen calibers.

I own several Progressive Presses. Several Single Stage Presses and Powder and Priming stations...etc...

The Progressives are like any other Tool on my loading bench. They each serve a specific need. Their purpose is to handle the various tasks that I might save time by automating that may be only 2-3 operations at a time. Case Prep, seating ...etc...

The only rifle caliber I run Semi-Progressive is 223...I reload match quality ammo, not blasting ammo.

I would only set up full progressive loading for calibers I am shooting over 1000rds a week, and some are dedicated to those calibers.

So I'd recommend to buy caliber conversions WHEN and IF you actually need them, not based on what you think you might possibly need at some undetermined time in the future. You don't have to buy everything in your one-and-only shot.



I don't need a bullet feeder. I'm pulling on the handle... I might as well be doing something with my left hand.

AND...I will DAMN WELL VISUALLY INSPECT EVERY POWDER CHARGE BEFORE I PUT A BULLET IN THE CASE..!!

I don't know how to emphasize that...and plus they don't always work that well.

Case feeders are convenient, but I wouldn't pay $300 for one. If we were still shooting 20k a month I would probably have had one back then.

Money invested in Dillon can be sold used for 80% and likely more of what you paid for it....not so much any other brand. I wouldn't look to invest an equivalent in other brands that don't work as well, aren't as well engineered or made and are not regarded as highly by the marketplace.

I'm not saying to only buy Dillon...the other brands work fine for me... but that's me...they don't work as well for everyone.

A tool is a tool...some are better than others. Some guys seem to have problems with everything they touch.

If I were just starting out today from scratch I'd buy a Rockchucker and a 550...then a Co-Ax and maybe a Mec ...none of those were available when I started reloading and competitive shooting.

A 550 is well made and will crank out plenty of ammo...and probably do everything you need to do on a Saturday morning. A Dillon guy usually starts with one and adds a 750 or 1050 or 1100 later.

If I were you I'd make a few calls to the professional relations department of the various companies and see what they offer you.

A lot of those You Tube clowns are getting free equipment and are less deserving than you.

I use a powder cop die

free flave

Who?

Good video!

I do know after using a 650 I personally could never be happy using a 550, give me a self actuated shell plate!

6-7 min to burn thru a hundred primers is pretty easy!

That figure is a mere pittance compared to the wealth of satisfaction you'll receive in return.

Well you can’t calculate the savings of reloading for one caliber. Rifle ammo I believe you save way more than .10 a round. I assume you are calculating the cost of the reloading equipment?

Thought he was trying to justify a Progressive Press and accessories........

My Dillon kept me sane in a rough patch of life I went through. Nothing like hearing a plate ring to destress. Spend that money leave California load shoot repeat. Leave California though.

I decided to load 500 rounds of 45 ACP today

For sheets and grins I used my Lee 4 die set and one of my singles

Sized......500 pulls
Hand prime....500 brass moves
Flared.....500 pulls
Powder throw.....500 more moves
Seat.......500 pulls
Crimp.....500 pulls

I remember why I made the move and bought 3 full progressives

I could have made just shy of 2000 rounds with the handle pulls alone....not to mention handling the brass 3000 times vs only 500

It was nice to go back and do it the slow way that I was taught so many decades ago but my singles will stick with small batch rigle and anything I shoot in volumes goes through one of my progressives