Okay, maybe terrified is a strong word. All of MN has had 79 covid deaths so far. Age range 56-100. Median age 87 years. Almost all had preexisting conditions. We shut our nation down for this.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/coronavirus-in-one-state-13.php

Good comment section in that link. Not everybody in Minnesota is a retard, maybe.

Yes, I’m sure there have been 79 deaths in MN in the last two months.

If I made it to 87, I would hope there would be very little that would terrify me at that point. Would have outlived Dad by 10 years and his Dad by 30 years, so would consider myself way ahead of the game.....

I've got an 87 year old uncle that's in assisted living, I bet he's nervous. I need to call him.

This. After working in health care most of my life, this whole thing is way overblown. Everyone gets sick. Everyone dies. The average age of death in Italy was 81. They stopped treating people 80 and over, then dropped it back to 65. And many deaths are attributed to the virus. Not heart attacks, COPD, stroke, renal or liver failure, etc.

My dad is 78, and dyslexic, but doesnt live in Mn.
But being 78....he proly thinks he does

Man, you made me laugh with that one !

Good one.

So it's ok to say "what the hell,let the older people die" ? Instead of dying peacefully, it is ok to let them go out struggling for breath. I guess the same ones saying this says it is ok to kill the babies in late term abortions..I mean they are going to die some time right .

There are some cruel hearted SOB"s in this world that is for sure

[quote=shootinurse
After working in health care most of my life, this whole thing is way overblown. Everyone gets sick. Everyone dies. .[/quote]

I wonder how you would feel if you were suddenly faced with the prospect that most people in your age bracket will be dying in a few days or weeks

I wonder how you would feel if you were suddenly faced with the prospect that most people in your age bracket will be dying in a few days or weeks
[/quote]

This is not an equitable comparison nor fair rebuke.

Osky

A retired surgeon friend of mine say "Pneumonia is an old man's best friend."

He is 84 and still hunts birds 150+ days per year.

I wonder how you would feel if you were suddenly faced with the prospect that most people in your age bracket will be dying in a few days or weeks
[/quote]
If you're 87 and don't understand that most people in your age bracket are going to be dying soon, you must have not been paying attention.

If you're 87 and don't understand that most people in your age bracket are going to be dying soon, you must have not been paying attention.[/quote]

Says the young, bulletproof truck driver.

I wonder how you would feel if you were suddenly faced with the prospect that most people in your age bracket will be dying in a few days or weeks
[/quote]

Well said. For those of us over 70 this is a serious concern. I may die anyway, but I don't plan on dying this year. And I certainly wouldn't want to die laying in a bed gasping for air until there was no hope. For some of those making those comments, I would ask if they mean their parents as well?

Well said. For those of us over 70 this is a serious concern. I may die anyway, but I don't plan on dying this year. And I certainly wouldn't want to die laying in a bed gasping for air until there was no hope. For some of those making those comments, I would ask if they mean their parents as well? [/quote]


Two in my family are on both sides of 90 and have better outlooks on life and are as active daily than many of those younger.

Over 70, stay home a few months. That is not the same as saying we don't care and wish you would die.

Lots of folks 70 and older still work.

Hardly young, but that doesn't change the fact that 87yos who haven't dealt with the concept of death are in for a rude awakening. I blame Disney.

Really? Where?

The vast majority do not. And shutting down the entire economy for this is beyond retarded.

I am 62 years old. Just had a serious stay in the hospital in March. I am vulnerable to the Covid.

OPEN THE DAMNED COUNTRY UP !

No one lives forever. Am I in a hurry to die? No. However, learned a long time ago that when God says it is your day, it is your day... I cannot see bankrupting and enslaving my children and grand children for the Socialist Utopian false hope of "Saving Everyone..."

Time to move on !

MY father had to retire early due to black lung from the coal mines. He lived until he was 94. My mother spent the last 7years of her life in an Alzheimer home .She past when she was 93. Early on the doctors said both conditions would be fatal. We sure wanted them to be with us as long as possible. If some doctor or anyone would have came up to me and said they are going to die anyway, I have the feeling they would not have lived as long as my parents did.

At 76, I feel the same as Old Toot. I don't plan on dying any sooner than I have to.



How about you staying home for a few months so you don't get infected and transmit it to other people.

I'm starting to see why the millennials dislike the boomers.

Guessing not around Austin.

And the inverse.

Good article and I concur 100%. Most Democrats think the sky is falling, guys like Miles58 who also lives in MN. Overhyped from the get go folks, need to put waaaaay more emphasis on opening the economy back up!

Sure thing. How about I stop paying social security taxes and you go without that lol. Hope you have some good savings.

This^^^^Those that need to should shelter in place.

Fugg no! They worked their whole life to have a claim on your money!

Maybe, just maybe we shut down the state because we wanted to prevent what Just happened in Sioux Falls where they just shut down Simthfield pork processing pland because 450 people now have Covid 19. Wait one month and watch what happens to Sioux Falls and then tell me what you think.

I am 82 and no longer afraid of much of anything. My wife died last fall at age 80 and Death has no hold on me anymore.

There's no good answer to this, we either shut the whole country down or have what 15-25% of population self quarantine[70+]

We know what we did, now we wait for the economic outcome.

Lose-Lose no matter.

Like those before you didn’t pay their part and more ? And are still paying.

You’d be better off concentrating on your driving and staying out of the left lane.

Watch what happens to Sioux falls over the next month and tell me about it then. All I hear out of you is mouth. Shutting down the state of Minnesota some has prevented a lot of people getting the disease and thus a number of them not dying unnecessarily. If you don't think the sky really is falling try moving to NYC or France or Italy or Spain or China and telling those people this isn't serious. If you think you're not at risk, go work in a hospital cleaning up. Then come back and tell me it's nothing.

I wonder how you would feel if you were suddenly faced with the prospect that most people in your age bracket will be dying in a few days or weeks
[/quote]
i have often heard you can know a lot about a society by how it treats it's elderly and it's young.

i have often heard you can know a lot about a society by how it treats it's elderly and it's young.[/quote]

I agree with this, but in the context of this thread only, which would be the wiser long term move for ALL?

IHDK

So we shut down the economy and put millions of young people out of work, children out of school, and bankrupt the small business people, inject huge amounts of debt owed to the Federal Reserve to protect the lives of 10% of the most expendable members of our society?

What can we know about a society that screwed over the young to protect the elderly?

Yep, big issues with the pork plant, heavy immigrant workforce living and working in close proximity to one another. So while your point is somewhat valid it’s a unique circumstance and I don’t suspect we will see many deaths in the grand scheme. Let’s watch Sioux Falls together, because it will end up being a non event, just like Gov Walz’s projections.

Why hasn’t MN seen many deaths? Only because we shelter in place better? Nonsense. But if you are old with pre-existing conditions, obese, etc then it’s a different matter.

I'm so sorry to hear that, you have my sincere condolences. I'd been wondering why you weren't on the Fire much if at all recently, now it all makes sense.

The USA overall death rate for 85+ yo is 13.5%

The world corona death rate for 80+ yo is 14.8%, that's folks that got the virus... 85% of 80+ survived. No USA numbers but you can bet the % is lower than the world's.

There is no increase of deaths because of the virus for 87 yo, no plus deaths, no added deaths.

The people at risk need to chose to limit exposure and practice individual responsibility... wash your hands and don't touch your face.

Kent

We worked our whole lives paying social security for other people. Now it's our turn to collect you fuggin ass hole.

So if 80 years olds are afraid, we shut down EVERYBODY? Why not use some common sense? If you are at risk, isolate yourself. Also, ask yourself why you are at risk. Thought smoking was cool? Obese? High BP? No exercise? And everyone is supposed to pay for the poor decisions of others? My staying home isn't helping the scared. Everyone take precautions. At risk - Isolate yourselves.

That is only if the young generation agrees. It is a contract between generations that can be revoked. That is, if they can muster the political muscle to revoke it. You are correct in that you payed the preceding generation. Now it's time for the present working generation to decide if they wish to keep SS going seeing as how it is on a collision course with insolvency and probably won't be there for them.

And you make it obvious why millennials are not respected by some. Our country murders unborn children relentlessly w/out consequence to lawmakers. Thinking that there is consideration for human life by politicians is naive.


mike r

oops, double tap, must be my palsy.

mike r

None of em ever bitched about paying into SS back in the day......

Hey, numbnuts, 80 year olds didn’t shut things down. Twas your generation that did so.

You’re at risk mofo !!!!!
Grins

Which generation is he?



Maybe we should have a generation listed instead of a location.



Be like the BATF weapons sheet.


Are you A Boomer? Non Hispanic White Boomer?

A Gen X Boomer? Maybe a Greatest Boomer?

Perhaps closing down was the right thing to do until COVID-19’s real impact was known. Easy for all of us to armchair quarterback this one, especially if a person carries water for a certain political party. Address the issue and then investigate the ulterior motives after the problem is resolved.

That said, with the numbers where they’ve been for the past 2 weeks, it certainly makes sense to have seriously considered opening back up. In the beginning, the lack of knowing the virus’s potential benefitted the greater good by closing down. It may no longer be the case.

Sorry for your piss poor life choices.

Agree.

For the rest of the millennium congregation here, the schools weren’t shutdown to protect Ole folks .

It wasn't to protect the kids!

Doing fine here and still making the right choices having learned from a few bad ones.

Tell your Mom and Dad, Aunts and Uncles hello.

Fuggin nitwit.

He's kinda slow.

Says the slug.

Selfish, regretful, pricks are always entertaining. In a sad way, but still entertaining. It's all about you, right Nancy? Maybe you can start a SHTF tough guy thread. ROTFLMAO

You are running your mouth before watching what happens to Sioux Falls aren't you? Same as running your mouth before you stop to consider what is about to come out of it. The same applies to running your mouth calling the pork plant a unique situation. It is hardly unique in terms of number of employees, employee to employee proximity, or uch of anything else for that matter. Next time you go outside look around you. How may GoldenPlumg and Jennie O plants do we have here? Down in the citeis we have building complexes like Medtronic that employ a lot more people that share small spaces like bathrooms. Look at the closest hospital where you live. Look at something like the big mall in the cities. That thing is dependent on all those people oving through it.

Lastly, go look at the deaths per 100,000 people hit by the 1918 flu pandemic and think on those three peaks. If we were to give the retarded portion of our population their desire and open the state today 100% there would be the exact same thing happen a month from the opening and again in October


You have no idea of the percentage of migrants in that pork plant. You have no idea of their age. You have no idea about their immigration status. You have no idea about their living quarters.

Maybe they do have a lot of immigrants. Maybe some of your stereotypes apply. But... You do not get the right to decide who deserves to get sick. You do not get to decide who dies. You do not get to decide who gets to pay the bills for a month in ICU. You do not get to decide which industries suffer the losses of plant shut downs because their work force was all out sick.

For what it's worth, people that are 80 years old have about as long a future live span as those from 60 up n If you make it that far you tend to make it further than average. Hypertension (hig blood pressure Is eminently treatable and people with it can live with it for decades. Likewise diabetes. Likewise being over weight. I happen to have a friend who's skinny as a rail and has low cholesterol and he got the heart attack and I did not though I am about 30 pounds over and have had high cholesterol for decades.

Wow! You go girl!

I'd expect better language from the Greatest Generation. SMH. Very vulgar. Be sure to wash your hands and don't spend your stimulus money all in one place. Maybe buy some masks.

Try the food bank. They’ll help ya. After you get up off the floor.

No regrets here. And it is all about me.

Yeah Jim, it was. If they get sick they spread it amongst themselves like no other group and then they take it home and infect everyone else.

LOL. If only you had a clue. Imagination is your friend. Well, partial imagination given your cognitive state.

My Dad was wounded twice in WWII. Carried steel around for 66 years. He went at 86. Never ever saw a fearful look cross his face. Guess he had enough of that at 19-20.

Uhhh.....who were they bringing it home too?

Vulnerable old fuggers surely to die from it.

But yeah.....it was for the children's protection........

Like i posted on Monday-this flatten the curve/stop the spread was never about we the taxpayers NOT getting COVID-19, it was about NOT overwhelming the healthcare system.

Hate to break to most here but those that have the say DGAF if you get it they just didn't want everybody to get it at the same time.

Exactly! Nor is the testing going to prevent squat. The only thing that will prevent more infections is vaccination and speed getting it done.

Testing in concert with forced quarantine can slow it down, but the infectivity of this virus while lower than something like smallpox or measles, remains over a longer asymptomatic period and does not appear to net out that an infected covid 19 individual infects fewer people that an infected measles individual.

Oh and Mr Walz didn’t run his mouth either did he? And he’s pretty bad at math. You are grabbing hold of every negative item you can, tells me all I need to know about you.

Pork plant is unique, do some research on who’s impacted and living situations specifically. Hardly like Medtronic.

50m people (which is accepted to be low) died of the 1918 pandemic - most refer to it at the Spanish Flu BTW. I’m sure you think Covid is the second coming of this. Give us a break already, you are out of your element and overstating the severity, massively I should note. Wow.

Some of you bastards are damned disgusting with your disregard for human life. And yet you have the balls to criticize the abortionists. Those willing to disregard the aged as useless and expensive are no better than the abortionists.

It has been obvious how Hitler won the hearts and minds of Germany by marginalizing one sector of the population at a time.

First: kill the retards
then: kill the queers
then: kill the Gypsys
then: kill the Slavs
then: kill the Russians
then: kill the Jews

Never in my lifetime would I have foreseen the marginalizing of human life by the citizens of the USA during my lifetime.

The lunacy of those who resent the aged for their use of Social Security benefits is legendary. To proclaim that one is not entitled to receive Social Security after paying 13% of every earned dollar into it over forty five to fifty years is damned ridiculous.

Who was working the SD pork plant?

Jim, you are right. They closed the schools (AKA virus factories and exchange facilities) to protect society and the American way of life.

Schools should be the first thing closed and the last to reopen.

So, we should 100% ruin what is left of this once mighty nation for future generations?
That is what is happening and is making it worse with each day going forward.
Quite the quandary

Vaccination is at least a year + out.
Merica will be dust by then.

What about all the essential people who need to stay home now?


Nothing is shut down.....except for the schools, strip clubs and restaurants.


An exaggeration.....but not a big one.


Not saying Grandpa and Grandma aint important.....but everything we heard early on was aimed at protecting the elderly. Stay home...dont kill Grandma.


Its okay....go ahead and accept it.

Okay, there we go.

Who gets to define expendable. Lots of morality in making that choice, right?

I long ago determined there was more worthless human scum here than I've ever found in one place in my life. I wouldn't have anything to do with most of them outside of insulting them occasionally on here. This is not to say there aren't a few good people here because there are.

sounds like we dodged a bullet in our health care facilities. no one in the U.S. who has needed a ventilator, has not been able to get one. maybe now some of the states hard-hit, will buy some, vs funding stupid green new deal boondoggles.

also, have not seen any projections of 2 to 3 million dead in the US recently

Why such a black and white view of this?

Try this.

Go to your Dad , assuming he’s not succumbed to Covid, and pull up two chairs face to face and simply say:

Dad, I’m scared scchitt-less, please explain what’s going on, where we’re at with this thing and where it’s going. You’ve seen theses things before, please explain it all to me.

Having done that and after you escape the bonds of puberty, you’ll be a lot better for having done it.

There. That’s easy enough, ain’t it ?

No one is insulted by you. You have made yourself irrelevant. Good work and thank you for that.



mike r

DEATH be not proud...

My dad, at 86 years of age has gained enough fuggin knowledge over those 86 years to know that he needs to keep the hell away from most everybody and shelter his azz at home right now.
So NO face to face with him currently, would it work over the phone, face time maybe?

Vaccination does not necessarily need to be more than year out. Conventional testing and protocols of vaccines have an objective of minimizing the harm or potential harm they may do. The are parts of the development cycle that we may be able to shorten considerably with little or no risk and there are parts which we may be able to shorten by taking a calculated risk.

Even were we to abandon all control measures and let a million or more people die that isn't going end us. That is not and should not be something we give much consideration to in that we as a nation are pretty good at solving problems. Particularly since we have the ability now today to prevent a lot of needless death.

haha!


Dad is 75. If I was dying of Covid he would still want to have coffee.

Old saying in the USAF: "If you're not terrified, you don't understand the situation".

I'm soon to be 80 years old and, while I hate to say I'm terrified, I am being very cautious about what I do and where I go, if anywhere.

I pretty much resent the azzhats on this board and elsewhere who complain that their ability to make a buck is more important than my life and that I should just keel over and die so they can go get rich.

Mine retired[from here] 2 years ago, we had coffee every workday for 35+ years, he did the same with his dad.

Hey...I supported the shut down.



I also support a metered and logical approach to getting things going again.


WTF is wrong with that?

We actually suggested to my folks that we, (wife and kids) would gladly stay away until this all sorted itself out.



They said BS. Bring them kids up.

I pretty much resent the fact that my family business is most likely going under after this fiasco, a family business that is older than you.
Getting rich, that's RICH!

Another swing and a miss. Do you get tired of embarrassing yourself? - Rhetorical. No answer needed.

I most definitely do not belong to the "let 'em die" brigade. I would say that while we base our opinions on human emotion and thought, nature does not, it has its own agenda. I wonder if this isn't natures way of trying to protect itself, not so much by thinning the herd, but forcing us to step back from our way of living and the effects that it has on nature itself - witness the clearing of air and cleaning of water that is being reported. Just a thought, and one not from a very sharp mind at that.

No one??

Most are say to take precautions and protect the vulnerable, but there is no need to lock down those who are not at risk. It seems there could be a middle ground.

Now that we've learned some things, it's time to start the process of getting back[I said process].

Because that is the way morality works. Coloring morality in varying shades of grey is a one way ticket to perdition.

A Dr. performing triage in the yard is one thing. Painting red slashes across the foreheads of the community for selective execution is something different.

The pork plan is not unique. I worked at Medtronic for a few years. I also worked for a few other companies. Their ability to distance works id not any more easily accomplished than Smithfield's, maybe less in many cases. 50 million people dying in the early 1900s is not a lesson to you of what can happen???

The very low penetration of Covid 19 into Minnesota is because we have implemented well considered measures to limit that spread. Those measures came not from the governor, he merely directed their implementation.

Your failure to comprehend any of the items I listed out for you is kind of pathetic You keep running your mouth and don't take the time to understand whet you are talking about is more than pathetic in and of itself, it reflects on you as an individual and THAT is pathetic. Think about it. Behavior is one thing and can be corrected.

Well, since there is no middle ground, what next? Kill all the old people so we can get back to work?


Since there is no middle ground and all.


Sorta how the Turks handled the Armenians? No Armenians....no reason for a Russian invasion.

One of the assisted living centers in town has an outbreak right now....of 75 cases! I personally know a guy whose mother passed yesterday at this facility. She was elderly, had pnemonia and also tested positive for Covid. Would she have died if she hadn't contracted the virus? No one knows for sure but it didn't help.

There is going to have to be a balance, we cant stay closed for months on end without serious long term economic impacts. Someone on the Fire said it best in that there are those who are low risk health-wise that are at most risk financially, while those out of the work force are likely higher risk. We have to get the economy going again and soon or the fallout will be worse than the virus itself.

So what is the better alternative[no animosity from here]

Quarantine a few for the good of many, or quarantine all[and while doing so completely wreck the economy]?

It's academic at this point as the long term permanent damage is done.

Who takes care of the old people when the young are broke and need cared for?


Maybe China?

Two in my family are on both sides of 90 and have better outlooks on life and are as active daily than many of those younger.[/quote]
My dad stayed here in Georgia for over 3 weeks to stay away from the lies and BS concerning the China virus. He decided he wanted to be at his home in Jensen Beach, Florida whether it kills him or not. He's only 93 and sharp as a tack, his thoughts are he'd rather live free or die and there's no reason for shutting the country down to protect the old and sick. But he's never been about himself his whole life.

Despite what you may like to think, you are and always have been irrelevant.

I say low risk, back to work; higher risk, self quarantine. At some point folks have to take responsibility and do what is best for themselves.....shouldn't take .gov to make that decision for them.

Honestly I believe your heart is in the right spot but it’s not that simple. Where do you draw the line? Heck we’ll likely lose more folks to drug overdoses and car accidents annually than Covid, likely fact. So for something that seems manageable we have decided to torpedo the economy and our next generations future. I’ve got tons of empathy for those families and individuals who have experienced death. But IMO we’ve carried things too far, it’s not even debatable.

We have a good family friend who at 35 is dying in the hospital from a rare pancreatic condition, docs won’t let any family in the hospital to visit this person. All because of Covid fears. It’s not rationale, sorry. If you are at risk, self quarantine, common sense. Nobody here is saying the old, sick or fat are deserving to die. But don’t compare this to someone who chooses to turn the lights out of a baby who hasn’t been born.

Much more to be said but I will leave it at that.

On FOX news about 45 minute ago it was reported that over 4000 of the deaths attributed to C-19 were not tested for it. So basically they have a bit over 6000 deaths attributed to C-19 where the person had it. From watching a doc on youtube he says the way you die from C-19 is when you get pneumonia. I wonder how many of those people who had C-19 actually died of something else, but since they were being treated for C-19 that is automatically put as the cause of death. They are listing people who die from heart attacks as dying from C-19 if they have it. Yet in some areas heart attack deaths are way down. Maybe it is because people are sitting on their easy chairs all day, I don't know. I wonder how many heart attacks there will be after people get up and moving again.

I can't believe how many old people on here are scared of dieing. Are any of you veterans? I'm shocked that folks that served the country in the military would think shutting down the economy is a good thing for the country. I have emphysema but good Lord willing I'm still planning on collecting my first SS check in a couple of months. Get over it you old farts, if it's your turn to go there's no turning back.

Yes, you are correct. Our leaders, some in good faith (I believe) are trying to guide this nation through the greatest national emergency since Dec 7, 1941. We survived WW II, but emerged a different culture. Our women left the household and went to work. Our entire economy became oriented on service industries, on money changing hands over and over again, instead of production industries.

People were encouraged spend, spend, borrow and spend. After WW II, saving was no longer a virtue. SPEND, keep the economy moving.

Today, part of what makes this shutdown such a dire thing is our dependence upon this service economy. Our actual production industry has hardly been phased. But the movement of money has slowed.

I expect the nation will emerge from this pandemic healthy, but changed. Some lifestyles may be lost, or become less popular. Some industries may well suffer and possibly never recover because of that. But other industries will take their place.

I bet it takes 10 to 15 years for Las Vegas to regain the money movement of 2019. The aftermath of the pandemic to sports franchises will make the MLB labor strikes pale by comparison.

But the nation can survive quite well without casinos and without ball games on TV.

So the questions are: Did they make the right choice in shutting down the schools, entertainment, sports, and service industries? And is it time to reopen them?

First question, It really would not have made a difference whether .gov had shutdown most entertainment or eatery venues. The public would have closed them via attrition. Really, right now, who in their right mind is willing to walk into a crowded bar or restaurant or stadium? Certainly not enough to make it worth the bother to keep the doors open.

Schools? Schools are a no brainer. There is nothing happening in a school which is time critical. What they were going to teach this semester, they can teach in summer school or next fall.

The only ones hurt by the school closures is that some folks have to find an alternative to their free government baby sitter. Sorry, but that is a pretty minor inconvenience during a time of national emergency.

Second question: Time to reopen?
Again, we are going to find that is much more dependent upon the populace than any rule handed down from POTUS or the governors. Just because someone says you are allowed to open the doors of your restaurant does not mean the public is going to be standing in line to get in.

Sure, we have a few vocal idiots here proclaiming otherwise. "We ain't sceered of no Cold Virus!" But these people are rare outliers and in no way indicative of the attitudes of the general population.

The situation today at Smithfield in Sioux Falls gives me great pause. Is this just the first in a succession of similar events? Or is this an outlier?

We need at least two more weeks of forced closures to determine this.

Of real concern, the closures of food processing plants (forced by illness, not by Government Edict) is the first real bump in the road for food supply in this nation. That is scary! Things will get ugly if the grocery stores start experiencing actual outages rather than a few temporary shortages.

And there is little that any government official can do about it with any "declaration". Food production and transport has been determined as essential since this all started.

That would be fine, until unka sugar takes everything you own for no payments. You just have to face facts, your going to support many others, just like the boomers did!

So, Jim. Do you have a warehouse full of red paint somewhere? We are going to need a bunch.

I dont believe that for a second.

Don’t have the inclination to read all the BS about old people dying. It has been going on since the beginning of time and highly unlikely that will change...however, the reason the hospitals are listing Covid as the cause, is the fact they most likely will get more government money from Covid than they would from the insurance company if CHF, diabetes, high BP or Kidney issues were listed as the primary cause of death....

Comparing COVID to WWII, not going to buy it for 1 second. Turn off the news for a bit and get some fresh air, that’s absurd and not trying to offend you.

[quote=battue

..however, the reason the hospitals are listing Covid as the cause, is the fact they most likely will get more government money from Covid than they would from the insurance company if CHF, diabetes, high BP or Kidney issues were listed as the primary cause of death....
[/quote]

Supposedly, no one will be charged for any Covid19 treatment, hospital or otherwise as the govt will cover the cost. That includes those with no insurance So yes they will get more money

You need to talk to the younger generation that thinks everything they need or want should be free.

I am not afraid of dying, that went away years ago . But it is like the guy sitting next to you on an airplane that is going to crash and he says "when it is my time to go,it is time to go." That shouldn't mean it is my time to go also.

If it saves one Oldhead...

My mother is 80, and lives by herself. My sister is 56 as of a few weeks ago, and is an RN for the VA. My sister just found out Monday, that two of her patients tested positive for Covid-19, and three of her co-workers tested positive yesterday for it. My sister said her results would be in today she was told, but the VA has said they will continue working until they get a positive result back. The thing that scares me the most, my mom spent Easter Sunday at my sister's house with her husband and his two grand kids they are raising.

After taking to my sister this morning, she is in the boat that it's time to open the country back up as well. I think the cure is going to cause more deaths than the cause over all. When small businesses start filing bankruptcy and suicides spike because of it, I want to hear what the politicians say then.

They gonna be ded before those little bastards are paying in anyway.

Yes, it was.

They TOLD us that was the reason!

News, what news?

I do not take the paper. I have not seen any TV news in months. I have not had a radio turned on in more months.

I am just hearing the wailing and the lamentations of the women on this forum.

A bit dramatic, don't you think? Nobody is executing anyone. We are talking about a virus that you will most likely survive just fine, not a bullet to the head. And, if you are super concerned about it, you have every right to stay home and self isolate for as long as you want, until you feel comfortable with the level of risk involved in going out in public.

A precedent has been set.....what happens the next time....and how many times can any country survive going underground with every new marginally contagious threat?


Answer.....not long....and the wolves have noticed what it takes to roll us over....

Jesus Christ, WTF said you should keel over and die?? You should surely take precautions as should everyone else but the country needs to get back to business. I'm almost 54 and my father died at 57 20 plus years ago having CHF with a heart attack. I had CHF at 40 and have recovered but am on meds for it daily. I currently have a torn left rotator cuff and an undiagnosed gastro issue which I had my gull bladder taken out for in 2015 but didn't solve the problem so I'm waiting for a stomach scope which I can't get now (it's gotten way worse over the last few months). I am retired but I need a second back surgery which I'm waiting till I can't stand it any longer to get.... So I'm not in the best of health for my age but it isn't all my fault and I'm not very overweight (I'd get more exercise and walk more if it didn't hurt so much). That said WTF is going to happen to this country with everything shut down? People have to make a living and EVERYONE needs to realize this! I'm no doubt at risk but I surely don't want the economy to crash because of me and if it takes me out, hell I've had a good run.

Enough of this crap, time to go back to work.

And for those who haven't seen the video of Tucker that Steve posted I suggest you watch it.

Ps... I'm not so sure I haven't already had it or came in contact with it.

My neighbor is deathly allergic to bees. I want all you selfish bastards who keep bees to go kill them RIGHT NOW! Your honey is not more valuable than her life. What if she dies while cooking? The whole neighborhood, hell the whole city could go up in flames. Gas lines exploding - the whole works. What would that do to the environment? Hundreds of thousands could die! I guess some of you unfeeling jerks want her to die. No other explanation.







Or, I guess she could avoid bees.

OK. A few but very few young and middle age people die with this. A heck of a lot seem to not have any symptoms. Worse case scenario is maybe 10-15 % of elderly and chronically ill are fatal. I am 68 with beginning right side heart failure but I still work so I guess I'm "at risk". I'll be darned if I think we should shut things down to save 10% of the elderly and ill and that includes me. I've heard that even the national parks are closed. This is crazy. My wife and I have 3 adult children and 3 grand children, they are more important than protecting a few elderly that could for the most part protect themselves if they choose.

Well do something to reshape your views, this isn’t WW2 for God’s sake. I’m floored to see the over dramatic views of many. That said, this website is full of pretty well grounded folks.

Lots of scared folks right now that figure tomorrow was some how guaranteed.

Yes, yes sir they have.

Those precedents date back to 14'th century Europe.
And then to Philadelphia in the 1790s.
And San Francisco circa 1900.

With federal legislation passed in 1878.

To name just a few examples.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention H1N1 of 1918.

Heym06, Actually my point is, if the shutdown continues and my business has 0 profit, then I will pay 0 in taxes. So the social security taxes will have to come from somewhere else. I'll live off my tax free savings and weather the storm hopefully but others are not as fortunate. Its time for those at risk to hunker down perhaps, but the rest of us need to get this economy going.

And hospitals are furloughing people because there aren't many people coming into the hospital. Our own small hospital is losing huge amounts of money because no one is coming in. Everyone was told to stay home and not go to their Dr. so all the PPE can be used for the C-19 patients that didn't happen. I'm due for my annual this month. Not going to happen though. So I can't go to see my doc and because of that something is missed that won't be found until next year. Say cancer. And by that time it is too late to do anything or it is going to take a lot more effort to get me well. What will be said than?

The fact is we need to get back to normal. Not every old person will die from this. (Heck there was a 104 year old who beat it) If you have a problem with your health you should be the one staying home if you feel that way. Everyone else needs to get back to work.

Just got home from the mountains and read this.
You are falling back on using common sense and logic, again. Only those older than me should be allowed to die.

forever young at heart;



mike r

I dont want anybody to die.


I would have been a cop instead of an EMT is the opposite were true.........ha!

Officer Jim Conrad here, reason I pulled you over, was because you were doing 55 in a 25. Are those chocolate Twinkie’s? You don’t mind if i take those do you and have a great day.. driver sitting their perplexed trying figure out if it’s a joke or not..

Do they really make chocolate Twinkies??

More importantly, it seems, people need to get their asses back out onto the street and start blowing money again on frivolous schitt so the rest of us can scavenge up our share.

those are from Chiner......

You old Fuggers are pathetic.

If you're 87, without Covid-Y2K, your chance of dyin this year is 15%.

If you're 87, with Covid-Y2K, your chance of dyin this year is 10%-27%.

Statistically insignificant difference.

The real issue, is that there's two types of people:

Those that support and follow the constitution; and

Those that don't.

Nature has a way of weedin out those that shouldn't be on the planet.

The Covid is a good thing, for "those that don't".

two kinds of people in the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2w9X_tHU7k

Do what you must and how you want to.
BTW, I was talking to 280 Shooter.

But that’s okay.

Same could be said to you. Let everyone else get back to what they need to do.

You still whining your ass off projecting your sorry soul upon others ?

No need to swing at you. You strike out just standing there, life’s passed you by ?
Fuggin millenials.

I’m doing just that. Just got back from my deer camp doing some sprucing up.

Sad day knowing a man has missed out on chocolate Twinkie’s. Yes they do

You first.

I like it here.

No, not so. I simply can not figure out what is shut down. Other than consumer spending that is.

Okay, they did shut down a pork factory this week. But the feds had nothing to do with that.

Oh, I ain't old. I don't even hit Social Security for another three years.

😎

You fugger!


I guess they come cream filled?

Jeebus....I walked right into that one......

I'm hoping I never see what you did there.

Good! Live and let live!

Well just about everything is shut down here. All construction company's, all car dealerships, all atv/motorcycle dealerships, bar, restaurants, church's, golf course's, state parks, liquor stores, TJ max and other non essential stores, and various other businesses... A whole lotta stuff. Things need to open back up and the economy needs to start moving again.... Period.

I'm planning on staying around to collect my SS if the government will let the people get back to work. The SS Ponzi scheme won't work if folks are sitting at home sheltering in place.

Yessir, I am and can’t ever recall holding anyone back, past or present.

JT, life hasn’t changed to any degree for me in our area. Folks are practicing distancing and staying sanitary. Most all businesses are open with the exception of restaurants and they’ve gone to takeout only. Loggers are logging, mail is running as are UPS, newspapers and landscapers. Houses continue with construction, road crews are out and about, litter pickup and the garbage men are on the job. Lots of folks fishing and turkey hunters are out and about. Game Wardens are on the job.

Churches have switched to the net, mostly.

Life pretty much goes on with the adjustments that have been made.
I do feel for those in inner cities. That’s gotta be a bitch for those good people.

FAIL. LOL

We’re good TG. They’ll just print more money.

I hope you collect it for many deserved years.

Your local Walmart has restocked with millenials’ crying towels. Yours must need replacement by now. You can cry in style.

Nothing wrong in concept. but no one truly knows what that metered and logical approach really is. And now, ramping up had become a political, not scientific question.

Meanwhile, what has changed about the virus or its remedy since March 1st?

Leroy,

Are you prepared to do what you must do?

Another FAIL. Jeezus. Have you ever been correct? A perfect record. Be proud! You suffer delusions of adequacy and then you project. Kinda like liberals. Accuse other of that which you are doing. LOL

"I'm sacred! I want saved! I'm gullible and easily lead!" Keep crying. You demonstrated many times what self absorbed looks like. LOL

My how you carry on.
You’re lonesome in your little locked down miserable world, reaching out to others.

Correct ? About you from day 1.

I think so too.

People are pretty much doing just that around here.

I'd love to stay home for a week and get [bleep] done around the house. Unfortunately I'm essential as Phuqk. I almost feel sorry for all you non -essential [bleep].

CDOT has signs all up i70 saying “Stay home. Save a life.” Sorry to whomever I aced yesterday doing essential things.

Wrong again! I own 2 essential businesses in 2 states. Out of the house every day.

Seriously, business is up sharply because of the scare, but I would trade it to get back to normal. I wish you the best and I hope this ends as well as possible soon.

To be relevant, you should try to see events in a 21 century perspective..the world has changed in the last couple hundred years..our economy has changed...our enemies have changed...along with their capabilities..

Makes a lot of sense to tell the people paying to quit working then, doesn't it? Dumb bass.

But you'll be dead long before the bill on this fiasco is paid. Selfish bastard.

Makes a lot of sense to tell the people paying to quit working then, doesn't it? Dumb bass.

But you'll be dead long before the bill on this fiasco is paid. Selfish bastard.
Who the he'll was around when abortion became the law of the land? Sure as he'll wasn't the millennials.

Do you understand that the decision to shut down the economy isn't without consequences? There will likely be an increase in suicides and overdoses. There are reports about people not seeking medical care that may end up dying because they're too scared to go to the hospital. Not to mention the financial burden being placed on young workers, small business owners and others, that they might never fully recover from. And all this because the sainted elderly can't be expected to take sensible precautions to protect their own lives.

Do you understand that the decision to shut down the economy isn't without consequences? There will likely be an increase in suicides and overdoses. There are reports about people not seeking medical care that may end up dying because they're too scared to go to the hospital. Not to mention the financial burden being placed on young workers, small business owners and others, that they might never fully recover from. And all this because the sainted elderly can't be expected to take sensible precautions to protect their own lives.


And dad will say, "well son, the last time we did this, the older generation wasn't a bunch of pussies..."

I absolutely understand that shutting down our economy has consequences.

But apparently you do not understand that doing nothing in the face of this pandemic would have had very serious consequences also.

First: Politically, The Democrats would have used lack of response to great political gain in their bid to take the Senate this year. Lack of action might well have given Democrats an increased lead in the house, and possibly given them the Presidency. Democrats would have declared inaction to be indecision and lack of concern by the President

Second: Financially, Our stock market started plummeting just as we started seeing the first C 19 infections in the US. Long before any lock downs were announced and almost a month before the first C 19 death was recorded in America. An economic crash was inevitable in America whether the Government had forced closures or not.

Americans, appear to be pretty damned stupid at times, especially those voting for socialist/communists. But we are among the most literate and educated people on the planet. With death tolls in the tens of thousands, and diagnosed infection counts in the hundreds of thousands, people would have abandoned public venues by now with no urging from the government.

Government edicts only slightly accelerated those shutdowns. And they will not go away in the next week or possibly the next month even if the governors and POTUS lift all restrictions tomorrow.

There is no reason to build cars, unless the public is buying cars. There is no reason to buy food and pay a wait staff at a restaurant unless people are coming in the door. And there is not much reason to hold a sporting event if only 1% of the stadium seats are filled. Those things are not going to happen until people are sure the source of contagion has been eliminated. That will not happen until after a successful vaccination program has been completed. Probably two years from now.

Third: Closures have definitely mitigated the force and the rapidity of spread of this disease. We have fortunately avoided the worst of the overcrowding we expected in the hospitals.

Response to the situation in America these last two months, and over the next two to three months is a very delicate balancing act. I for one am pretty damned satisfied with the tough decisions our President has been forced to make.

Apparently, from what I read here, some governors have gone a little nuts and overboard on their response. I surely hope their citizens remember that come the next election.

Suicides and overdoses? Probably straw man. If not, Darwin can always use all the help he can get. I am a lot more concerned with people running out of food and reaction to actual shortages in the inner cities.

what will happen in the inner city is really close to the bottom of my list of Corona concerns.

Everyone should take precautions as they see fit. It's called personal responsibility. Blanket mandates across states, that are based on isolated hot spots are ridiculous.
This isn't a "one size fits all" situation. NYC is a long way from corn cob county West Virginia.

And I thought the liberals in CO were fuggin nuts.

Too informal, anything worth saying is worth saying in person.

This!

Idaho Shooter is so disillusioned it’s not even funny.

Hey and the same to you. Shooter it’s good to hear of any needed business doing well. Keep your folks on the job. Hopefully common sense will begin to prevail.

You and yours take care and stay well.

No nursing home or assisted living visits allowed in Louisiana

That was the joke.

And he’d further say that back then they were real men, tough men like truck drivers.
Yeah, that’s what he’d say.

Perzactly!
The state authoriti [doing my best Cortman impression] is trying to implement the "one size fits all" scenario, it won't work.

Are we still saying anyone who wants to open the economy up because this is all bullllschidt is a Nazi? Wanna make sure I’m on the same page this morning.

Quickest way to reopen the economy is to say all salaried by taxpayers workers at the local, state, and fed level will take a 15% pay cut until things open up. And that includes teachers.

Things would be open tomorrow and the entire narrative would change.

Add in social security benefits and it may open up later today.

No kidding.

What we have going on is a bunch of people with guaranteed paychecks picking winners and losers in this.

Kinda chaps my ass when school teachers kayak by on a school day, all smiles, still collecting big $$ with the premo health insurance plan while the local fishermen will starve this year due to the decisions of those who won’t lose a dime.

Why limit it to those salaried by taxpayers? Why not anyone who is not working but still receiving pay/benefits?

So, the fishermen are starving because they have no place to sell their catch? Right?

Where is the market for their catch? Restaurants?

So, are you too fugging stupid to understand the restaurants would be empty without any Governmental order? Or that lifting of those orders will not magically fill the restaurants?

Such are the consequences of natural disasters.

Now I admit to very little knowledge of circumstances in Big City America.

But around here the only businesses actually closed are dine in restaurants, oh and that Dutch Bros where they found several members of the wait staff had the Corona. But traffic on the roads is reduced to about 25% of normal and even the grocery stores are void of customers.

People have no interest in going into public venues. Even when forced into a grocery store or pharmacy, they stand far away from each other and try very hard to avoid contact with others.

People sure as hell are not eager to eat food in an open dining room, nor have a waiter handling their open plate or touching their water glass.

Dot Gov could very well lift all restrictions tomorrow, today even, but do not expect much impact on the economy any time soon. People have learned they can do without many frivolous expenditures.

What are we going to do? Start shooting people if they do not buy three restaurant meals each week?

Lots of conjecture and wild ass guessing there.

Locally, we are at 34 death in two counties with about 300K in populations. 76% of the deaths are from nursing home residents. The infection rate of the virus amongst staff and residents in the nursing homes is very high. The only reason that experts know it is very high is that all the staff and residents in the nursing homes have been tested. I suspect if the rest of the population was tested at the same level, we would find the rate of infection to be very high with a majority of those being tested asymptomatic.

This isn't a guess. 22 million people lost jobs last month. I will guess that many of them were poor planners and have bills to pay. And the state of MN had 79 deaths of elderly folks, out of a population of 830,000 elderly. And they will still keep dying while this virus runs its course. Though in fairness, that is around a .00009 death rate in MN's elderly.

More real observations there.

What is actually closed in Boise by Government order?

And what is the traffic rate at those places still open?

Many here cannot see the forest through the trees, go figure.

No doubt there are some cruel hearted people in the world - always has been the case. But, IMHO your comments are short-sighted or borne from ignorance - or maybe both. I am quite old even though not yet 87 and have enjoyed a wonderful life, career, family, friends and most of what a fellow could do out in nature. Also have climbed back from two serious health situations and know I soon will die from something like that or similar - and most likely, as you put it, "go out struggling for breath." I am reconciled with the reality and so, yes, it is OK to say "let the older people die" because we certainly will and nothing over-arching can or will be done to change that. Contrary to your guess, I celebrate the glory and sanctity of life, believe that abortion is dead wrong and sinful, and wish the best for others. From this vantage point, some handling of the current situation is ridiculous and wrong. But then, I'm old.

I certainly wish death upon no one.
If I had factors that meant that I should self quarantine to help my life last longer then that's what I would do, not expect the rest of the country to do it for my sake all the while totally destroying our national economy, leaving a depression my children and grandchildren will surely have to endure.

Around this Campfire, one never knows.
Grins

I agree. If decision makers were suffering things would change. Quick.

Many businesses are restricted in operation. The conjecture is that you "know" what people would have done without .gov stepping in. I'm really not going to argue with you. You have your chosen path and cannot be dissuaded. I'm OK with that.

Like I said, bunch of pussies.

Dassa, rare is it that one finds a Lot Lizard Loving, Gear Jamming Mother Trucker with such a strong aversion to pussy .

Very strange, indeed. You ain’t normal, dude.

Toots,

Remember when it was "all about me?"

The way back machine remembers.

🤣

Rich, scared, and selfish ain't no way to go through life son.

But, maybe add a third mask, you know, just to be safe.

🤣

I don’t want to live another 30 years.

I have enough spine/nerve issues, I’d likely be in a wheel chair wearing a diaper and needing help to wipe my ass. My one grandma died of Alzheimer’s before she was 80. I don’t want any of that.

So if I made 87, I wouldn’t mind Covid taking me.

When the quality of life is gone, so am I If I have the strength to pull the hammer back.
There are fates worse than death.

Unlike some members, great isn't the driving force of your decision making process.

But, yeah, screw "living" without being able to live.