In the last month I have had three different relatives contact me asking about what to buy for home protection. All three are couples who have never owned a firearm previously, and never felt the need.
Seems the Wuhan virus has made people very uneasy, and those that werent affected by that have become uneasy with the recent riots.
Two of them purchased prior to talking to me, making my advice kind of moot. The third I will talk to later today.
Both selected 9mm pistols, one a Glock and one a S&W. Probably whatever the salesman recommended.
My advice would have been a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 but in talking to both they wanted something smaller.
(Probably interesting psychology- they want something to make them feel safer, but a shotgun seems to feel like they are over reacting. They almost seem embarrassed they are arming themselves.)
I talked about the importance of the right ammuntion, but both had already gotten FMJ 9mm loads, probably the only ammo the store had in stock.
I also talked with both about the importance of learning how to safely load and shoot whatever they get, but I think in both cases the guns they bought will be rarely handled or shot, that is the reality.
Wondering if many others here have gotten similar recent calls?
Also wondering what people here would recomend to someone in similar circumstances.
1) a 12 ga can pound the tar out of a shoulder especially with buck shot; perfect recipe to make someone afraid of the gun which is bad from a home defense perspective
2) I worry about over penetration if there are a lot of people in the house; this recognizing the basic rules of gun safety apply in self defense scenarios as anywhere else and I don’t want to fling lead in any configuration toward my kids’ bedrooms
I like an AR or high-cap 9mm. Both are easy to operate, the former is relatively easy to learn to shoot well the latter easy to maneuver through the house when executing a sweep.
Obviously range time is critical no matter the choice. I have both and use them a lot; I’ve also trained my boys on them.
1) a 12 ga can pound the tar out of a shoulder especially with buck shot; perfect recipe to make someone afraid of the gun which is bad from a home defense perspective
2) I worry about over penetration if there are a lot of people in the house; this recognizing the basic rules of gun safety apply in self defense scenarios as anywhere else and I don’t want to fling lead in any configuration toward my kids’ bedrooms
I like an AR or high-cap 9mm. Both are easy to operate, the former is relatively easy to learn to shoot well the latter easy to maneuver through the house when executing a sweep.
Obviously range time is critical no matter the choice. I have both and use them a lot; I’ve also trained my boys on them.
Truth is the worst choice is to be unarmed.
So you worry about over-penetration with the shotgun but not with an AR?
For someone who's not going to become a gun enthusiast, but wants a good defensive gun around the house, a good pre-82 K-Frame S&W .38 Special with a four or six inch barrel stoked with premium +P ammo. Super simple manual of arms. Maybe have a gunsmith remove the hammer spur, just to make sure they never cock it manually.
If they don't like a shotgun, even an 18" barrel with pistol grips, what about a Judge? A 410 with buckshot won't make the mess a 12 gauge will, but it sure will get someone's attention. And I like the simplicity of a double action revolver. In a full blown stress situation, thinking isn't easy. A DA revolver is simple, point and pull trigger. No slide, no safety to take off, no first shot long pull, the rest quick pulls.
I still like the 18" shotgun. And I agree, range time is a must.
From what I see, the Ruger is typically a couple hundred bucks cheaper. In my limited experience, there is a good chance the LCR will have the better trigger out of the box. The LCR will surprise most Smith aficionados, including myself.
The Ruger PC 9mm Carbine looks like something easy to learn, and reasonably powerful.
Guns similar to M1 .30 carbines are very much underappreciated as HD guns. These type of weapons are a great choice.
I have that covered with a 10 shot lever action in 327 mag. Or its bigger cousin in 41 mag. True Old West assault rifles. The 327 is the 30 carbine revitalized.
I would definitely recommend a shoulder fired weapon, be it a 20 gauge or even .410 gauge shotgun or some sort of carbine. A handgun is ridiculously easy to miss with and especially in the hands of a novice, and doubly especially so in an adrenaline filled situation. Cops (yeah, I know), but cops are at least trained with them and more importantly should have some experience in stressful situations, and many of them still have trouble hitting attacking barn sides.
A 10/22 is still a great weapon for a novice. It doesn't kick and if they have any place to plink with one or even just shooting on a public range they quickly find out how much fun it is and how little it costs, and that is conducive to a lot more practice.
For people with NO experience, a revolver, 38 sp. is the simple solution. Whatever they have, will probably be a disaster anyway, without the proper mindset !!!
The first thing I ask is if they are going to vote for Trump or Biden this November. If they laugh at the notion of voting for Trump, I laugh at the notion of helping them with their firearm question.
But, barring that they're not retards, I tell them the truth. Start with a 10/22. Learn to shoot, and keep it handy with at least two 10 round mags. If they want to advance from that, they should. However if you're going to have one gun in the house and one gun to let the whole family learn to use for all around purposes, that's my choice.
to the OP's first question.. yes i had my oldest brother call for advice last night. am shipping him a care package. a S&W 357, a ar15 , and a 12 gauge. even though he is 83 i wouldn't want to be on the business end of his attention. couple years ago we had a contest with hand guns and he won. then we switched to rifles, he won. i beat him with the scatter gun. He was in the army when they stressed accuracy. he threw away his medals but i got them and cherish them like i do him.
Don't discount the shorty 12 gauge rounds. They're reduced charge for lower recoil, but from 1-7 yards, extremely effective. Pair those with a coach gun and you've got a fool proof setup for an operator who doesn't shoot much, if at all. Easy to maneuver inside. Nothing to jam, can't botch loading, etc. And if you need more than 2 shots of #4 buck during a normal home invasion, and statistics say you almost nevet will, it's cause you goofed really bad.
The Ruger PC 9mm Carbine looks like something easy to learn, and reasonably powerful.
Guns similar to M1 .30 carbines are very much underappreciated as HD guns. These type of weapons are a great choice.
I have that covered with a 10 shot lever action in 327 mag. Or its bigger cousin in 41 mag. True Old West assault rifles. The 327 is the 30 carbine revitalized.
There is no denying usefulness of lever gun chambered for revolver cartridge for HD. New models have ghost ring sight systems can accept, low power scopes or dot sights and have rails for light mounting. Certain ones like .454/45LC or .44Magnum/.44Special can be used for both hunting and HD. Another big advantage is these can be taken along for interstate travel such as RV vacation and will be legal in most places visited. Not something that can be said of semi-autos with large capacity detachable magazines.
For novices, and for defense of a home or place of business, I recommend a 12 gauge pump if they will shoot a few rounds of clay birds or a 10/22 if not.
Forget the AR15. A 12 gauge is deadly enough at shorter ranges and they won't know how to hit something at longer ranges with a rifle. They might even forget how to load it.
Shot: I recommend #6, not buck. #6 in the face at 50 yards will stop any perp.
Someone posted that a 12 gauge kicks too much. Not so. I shoot at least 100 rounds in less than two hours, at least twice a week.
Handguns: Good only if they need something out and about, and if they have CCW in their state. I recommend a revolver. Semis are complicated.
The first thing I ask is if they are going to vote for Trump or Biden this November. If they laugh at the notion of voting for Trump, I laugh at the notion of helping them with their firearm question.
But, barring that they're not retards, I tell them the truth. Start with a 10/22. Learn to shoot, and keep it handy with at least two 10 round mags. If they want to advance from that, they should. However if you're going to have one gun in the house and one gun to let the whole family learn to use for all around purposes, that's my choice.
It should stay loaded with CCI Mini-Mags.
That makes a lot of sense deflave. The US Army came to a similar conclusion in 1941 and adopted the M1 carbine. The are a lot of similarities between the Ruger 10/22 and the M1 carbine.
Strongly second the "range time". Wife and her sister (62 and 67) do not have the hand/wrist strength to manipulate the slide on a Kimber 3" 9mm, G19, G43, S&W M&P. They are able to manage the slide and ergos of a Walther P22...
Make sure the in-laws (husband and wife) are able to actually put the weapon into service. Not have it taken away and used on them...
Guns and ammo are in short supply. Many stores have stopped selling both, because of the emergency orders and riots. Don’t have a lot of sympathy for people that have been so blind. I tell concerned folks to lock their doors and call the police. 😏
The first thing I ask is if they are going to vote for Trump or Biden this November. If they laugh at the notion of voting for Trump, I laugh at the notion of helping them with their firearm question.
But, barring that they're not retards, I tell them the truth. Start with a 10/22. Learn to shoot, and keep it handy with at least two 10 round mags. If they want to advance from that, they should. However if you're going to have one gun in the house and one gun to let the whole family learn to use for all around purposes, that's my choice.
It should stay loaded with CCI Mini-Mags.
That makes a lot of sense deflave. The US Army came to a similar conclusion in 1941 and adopted the M1 carbine. The are a lot of similarities between the Ruger 10/22 and the M1 carbine.
I wouldn't want my wife or kids shooting at me with one.
Short-barreled 12 gauge pump or SxS would be my recommendation..............either #4 lead or frangible buckshot. Not sure, but I'm thinking Remington offers the frangible stuff as a factory load. I know International Cartridge Corp does.
I would suggest to any Novice ,that is iffy about weapons , a 20ga. short barrel pump loaded with TSS # 6 or #7 -- full choke. Point and shoot even from the hip . Much more practice needed with a handgun
For novices, and for defense of a home or place of business, I recommend a 12 gauge pump if they will shoot a few rounds of clay birds or a 10/22 if not.
Forget the AR15. A 12 gauge is deadly enough at shorter ranges and they won't know how to hit something at longer ranges with a rifle. They might even forget how to load it.
Shot: I recommend #6, not buck. #6 in the face at 50 yards will stop any perp.
Someone posted that a 12 gauge kicks too much. Not so. I shoot at least 100 rounds in less than two hours, at least twice a week.
Handguns: Good only if they need something out and about, and if they have CCW in their state. I recommend a revolver. Semis are complicated.
For novices, and for defense of a home or place of business, I recommend a 12 gauge pump if they will shoot a few rounds of clay birds or a 10/22 if not.
Forget the AR15. A 12 gauge is deadly enough at shorter ranges and they won't know how to hit something at longer ranges with a rifle. They might even forget how to load it.
Shot: I recommend #6, not buck. #6 in the face at 50 yards will stop any perp.
Someone posted that a 12 gauge kicks too much. Not so. I shoot at least 100 rounds in less than two hours, at least twice a week.
Handguns: Good only if they need something out and about, and if they have CCW in their state. I recommend a revolver. Semis are complicated.
Good suggestion on #6 instead of buckshot. #4, #5, or #6 is pretty danged good anywhere inside of 20 yards. At close range distances inside a house, they're practically deadly to hominids.
My step son called up about six weeks ago. Worried about things in general. Wanted a recommendation for his wife and her 14 year old daughter. His wife has limited experience and the 14 year old had zero experience.
Sent him a ruger 10/22 with three extra mags in and told him to get a trs25 red dot. Next up was a ruger lcp in 22 lr. Now, I guess one might try to get,one of those lite rack lcp pistols.
For someone who's not going to become a gun enthusiast, but wants a good defensive gun around the house, a good pre-82 K-Frame S&W .38 Special with a four or six inch barrel stoked with premium +P ammo. Super simple manual of arms. Maybe have a gunsmith remove the hammer spur, just to make sure they never cock it manually.
[bleep] it TRH don't be recommending good guns to people who reaLLY DON'T WANT A GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE. Tell the to buy Rossi's or Tauruses, no point wasting good Smith's on closet gunowners now. MB
These conversations always seem to center on guns and ignore training. A healthy, non drooler, male or female can be taught the fundamentals and functional safety in 4 hours and 200 rounds by a competent instructor. My wife, an antique, and my grandaughter who just turned 20 y/o can both do a sub 3 second Bill drill. My wife's favorite gun is a Beretta CX 4 w/ an Aimpoint Micro but she shoots her G19 pretty well too. A trained person w/ a 10/22 is a lot deadlier than is bubba w/ his shotgun that he does not train with on a regular basis.
Remington makes a 20 ga 870 Express with a 18" barrel and extended magazine for a total of 6 in the mag, East to shoot and the sound of racking it will scare the crap out of most intruders. ! oz of number 6's coming down the hall is plenty. I've got two and really like them, as does my wife.
The shotgun and DA recommendations always leave me puzzled.
Just point 'er down the hallway and let 'er rip, everything in that hemisphere will die. That 6 gun will let you fight your way to your rifle. You have a lot to learn youngster, let me suggest you Google MASSAD AYOOB and you can get up to speed on how it is done on the street!.
The shotgun and DA recommendations always leave me puzzled.
Just point 'er down the hallway and let 'er rip, everything in that hemisphere will die. That 6 gun will let you fight your way to your rifle. You have a lot to learn youngster, let me suggest you Google MASSAD AYOOB and you can get up to speed on how it is done on the street!.
mike r
I have never seen a novice handle a shotgun well.
Ever.
You can get them up and running for sure, but any lag in oversight results in their being confused.
My go to is a DA 357/38 with the Springfield 45/10 as backup and the wife is the opposite with her Ruger 45 and 357/38 as backup....How we never have to find out which worked better..
My go to is a DA 357/38 with the Springfield 45/10 as backup and the wife is the opposite with her Ruger 45 and 357/38 as backup....How we never have to find out which worked better..
My go to is a DA 357/38 with the Springfield 45/10 as backup and the wife is the opposite with her Ruger 45 and 357/38 as backup....How we never have to find out which worked better..
My go to is a DA 357/38 with the Springfield 45/10 as backup and the wife is the opposite with her Ruger 45 and 357/38 as backup....How we never have to find out which worked better..
I never could understand why people want to buy firearms to protect themselves (at home or out in the world), but DO NOT want to take the time to become proficient with the firearm. It's like buying a car, and saying you don't want to learn to drive. INFURIATING to someone that works behind the counter at a gun shop.
While I keep a handgun at home for personal defense (I also shoot about 400 rds a week), I find "non-gun people" generally buy shotguns for home defense. That said, a loaded, unlocked shotgun is dangerous to leave around (children, grandchildren, etc), and a unloaded shotgun is useless at 2am, and most newbies would NOT be able to quickly load after just after waking up, under pressure (home invasion). For that reason, i've become a big fan of rapid safes, for safe, loaded shotgun storage, especially for those that don't take the time to become proficient with their weapon. YMMV. -TomT
Revolvers are some of my favorite firearms. I also have a Mil Spec 1911 that stays handy, and other things.
But my first line of defense at present is a 5.56 Kel-Tec SU-16 carbine that has proven to be exceptionally reliable.
Of course,..I live in 1950's rural Kentucky. So I really don't expect to have to use any of them.
Are you a novice?
Not hardly.
Just talking about yourself?
Again.
My point is,...rifles are vastly superior to handguns for any type of defense. Semi auto rifles are even better if they're reliable.
Of course, you know that,...but you just can't resist attempting to bait me into a discussion where you can launch into one of your nightly displays of chuckleheadery.
I never could understand why people want to buy firearms to protect themselves (at home or out in the world), but DO NOT want to take the time to become proficient with the firearm. It's like buying a car, and saying you don't want to learn to drive. INFURIATING to someone that works behind the counter at a gun shop.
While I keep a handgun at home for personal defense (I also shoot about 400 rds a week), I find "non-gun" people generally buy shotguns for home defense. That said, a loaded, unlocked shotgun is dangerous to leave around (children, grandchildren, etc), and a unloaded shotgun is useless at 2am, and most newbies would NOT be able to quickly load after just after waking up, under pressure (home invasion). For that reason, i've become a big fan of rapid safes, for safe, loaded shotgun storage, especially for those that don't take the time to become proficient with their weapon. YMMV. -TomT
My point is,...rifles are vastly superior to handguns for any type of defense. Semi auto rifles are even better if they're reliable.
Of course, you know that,...but you just can't resist attempting to bait me into a discussion where you can launch into one of your nightly displays of chuckleheadery.
Keep in mind the key limiting factor: novice.
noun noun: novice; plural noun: novices a person new to or inexperienced in a field or situation.
My point is,...rifles are vastly superior to handguns for any type of defense. Semi auto rifles are even better if they're reliable.
Of course, you know that,...but you just can't resist attempting to bait me into a discussion where you can launch into one of your nightly displays of chuckleheadery.
There are plenty of reasons that people prefer handguns to long arms for the purposes of home defense. Same for vehicles.
I'm not baiting anybody into anything. I'm trying to help the OP.
My point is,...rifles are vastly superior to handguns for any type of defense. Semi auto rifles are even better if they're reliable.
Of course, you know that,...but you just can't resist attempting to bait me into a discussion where you can launch into one of your nightly displays of chuckleheadery.
Keep in mind the key limiting factor: novice.
noun noun: novice; plural noun: novices a person new to or inexperienced in a field or situation.
P
Yeah,...I know. But there's not much to operating a semi auto carbine.
ALSO, I'm talking about neophytes, and i'm thinking you HAD firearms training. Hell, I shot a field dressed my first deer at 7, most people that I deal with on the day to day are NOT gun people.
If it fits them they should have no problem when the time comes to use it.
And while some folks say the only shot size to use is 00,0 or some other large size if shot at wallboard they will be amazed at the damage that 71/2 or 8 size will do.
Pitt bull dogs don't like that combo out of a 20 gauge i can tell you.
I don't know anyone that I can think of who doesn't own a gun. I have been asked by people from work. I always recommend a pump shotgun or metal frame 9mm pistol.
I don't think those are the best choices, but they're the best most would actually buy. Better than a Glock at least. I always tell people Glocks are why cops can't hit anything and to not buy one unless they are willing to practice a lot.
ALSO, I'm talking about neophytes, and i'm thinking you HAD firearms training. Hell, I shot a field dressed my first deer at 7, most people that I deal with on the day to day are NOT gun people.
No it isn't.
But I think it's silly to tell a novice that their home defense weapons have to be kept under lock and key.
I don't know anyone that I can think of who doesn't own a gun. I have been asked by people from work. I always recommend a pump shotgun or metal frame 9mm pistol.
I don't think those are the best choices, but they're the best most would actually buy. Better than a Glock at least. I always tell people Glocks are why cops can't hit anything and to not buy one unless they are willing to practice a lot.
I feel sorry for anybody that believes you know WTF you're talking about.
20" barrel full butt stock Pump 12 ga and 4 buck for a cherry. Ammo and practice with bird shot low fps stuff at 1st Progress up to big boy loads they can handle. Ammo and practice Ammo and practice Ect ect ect. Everyone starts somewhere Some wayyy younger, some waaaay older.
Get some training classes Or have a competent mentor.
Then the cherry stem sticking outta their head gets a little shorter as they gain experience. And Upgrade to other rigs possibly.
In the last month I have had three different relatives contact me asking about what to buy for home protection. All three are couples who have never owned a firearm previously, and never felt the need.
Seems the Wuhan virus has made people very uneasy, and those that werent affected by that have become uneasy with the recent riots.
Two of them purchased prior to talking to me, making my advice kind of moot. The third I will talk to later today.
Both selected 9mm pistols, one a Glock and one a S&W. Probably whatever the salesman recommended.
My advice would have been a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 but in talking to both they wanted something smaller.
(Probably interesting psychology- they want something to make them feel safer, but a shotgun seems to feel like they are over reacting. They almost seem embarrassed they are arming themselves.)
I talked about the importance of the right ammuntion, but both had already gotten FMJ 9mm loads, probably the only ammo the store had in stock.
I also talked with both about the importance of learning how to safely load and shoot whatever they get, but I think in both cases the guns they bought will be rarely handled or shot, that is the reality.
Wondering if many others here have gotten similar recent calls?
Also wondering what people here would recomend to someone in similar circumstances.
Given the criteria you have outlined I have to go with Travis' recommendation of a 10/22. They are easy to operate, easy to shoot and who knows after finding out how much fun can be had with one they may actually become more enthused with firearms.
While many of us here are comfortable with a shotgun, semi-auto pistol, or a revolver they can all be overly complicated and difficult to use to those not familiar with them.
Something I noticed many years ago - when the bolt handle on a 10/22 is released it sounds amazingly like the noise a pump shotgun makes when it is racked, I think that would give pause to anyone who heard it and may well deter any further action. My wife is an excellent revolver shot but she keeps a 10/22 near the bed for the reasons mentioned.
For someone who's not going to become a gun enthusiast, but wants a good defensive gun around the house, a good pre-82 K-Frame S&W .38 Special with a four or six inch barrel stoked with premium +P ammo. Super simple manual of arms. Maybe have a gunsmith remove the hammer spur, just to make sure they never cock it manually.
[bleep] it TRH don't be recommending good guns to people who reaLLY DON'T WANT A GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE. Tell the to buy Rossi's or Tauruses, no point wasting good Smith's on closet gunowners now. MB
several years back a groid broke into a home on ocean drive, 10 yr old boy home by himself. he went to his room got his 10-22 and waited the groid opened the door and told him to give him the gun.... he did right literally right between the eyes. I would vote for a 22 for most women or kids.I keep an AR15 one side of my nightstand and an 870 on the side between it and my bed, and my sps101 on it all loaded, I'd grab my sps first.
"The Warden" stated - "Just don't be a novice." No novices in my family - taught the kids years ago, brothers grew up with guns. Sister might qualify - I don't know. She grew up with 6 brothers, so she's plenty tough, though!
Heck,I think a good dog is as important as anything..Takes the element of surprise away...Then you have time to get the fire power needed...lol
Absolutely.
My first line of defense. My dog is not allowed to sleep upstairs with the family at night. Her job is to hear [bleep] and bark. House alarm is second line of defense. Hopefully this will give me enough time to wake up and reach over to grab a gun. Same for wife and kids.
20" barrel full butt stock Pump 12 ga and 4 buck for a cherry. Ammo and practice with bird shot low fps stuff at 1st Progress up to big boy loads they can handle. Ammo and practice Ammo and practice Ect ect ect. Everyone starts somewhere Some wayyy younger, some waaaay older.
Get some training classes Or have a competent mentor.
Then the cherry stem sticking outta their head gets a little shorter as they gain experience. And Upgrade to other rigs possibly.
JMO... Just like all others on here.
Seriously? What part of novice got by you? They’re not gonna practice. They’re not gonna take a training class. They don’t want a gun in the first place. They’re gonna sell whatever they buy six months from now anyway.
Heck,I think a good dog is as important as anything..Takes the element of surprise away...Then you have time to get the fire power needed...lol
Absolutely.
My first line of defense. My dog is not allowed to sleep upstairs with the family at night. Her job is to hear [bleep] and bark. House alarm is second line of defense. Hopefully this will give me enough time to wake up and reach over to grab a gun. Same for wife and kids.
Someone walks on the street in front of my house and I know it, any time of day or night.
I never could understand why people want to buy firearms to protect themselves (at home or out in the world), but DO NOT want to take the time to become proficient with the firearm. It's like buying a car, and saying you don't want to learn to drive. INFURIATING to someone that works behind the counter at a gun shop.
While I keep a handgun at home for personal defense (I also shoot about 400 rds a week), I find "non-gun people" generally buy shotguns for home defense. That said, a loaded, unlocked shotgun is dangerous to leave around (children, grandchildren, etc), and a unloaded shotgun is useless at 2am, and most newbies would NOT be able to quickly load after just after waking up, under pressure (home invasion). For that reason, i've become a big fan of rapid safes, for safe, loaded shotgun storage, especially for those that don't take the time to become proficient with their weapon. YMMV. -TomT
The first thing I ask is if they are going to vote for Trump or Biden this November. If they laugh at the notion of voting for Trump, I laugh at the notion of helping them with their firearm question.
But, barring that they're not retards, I tell them the truth. Start with a 10/22. Learn to shoot, and keep it handy with at least two 10 round mags. If they want to advance from that, they should. However if you're going to have one gun in the house and one gun to let the whole family learn to use for all around purposes, that's my choice.
Agree 100% with deflave on the 10/22. Wifey isnt a novice by far and owns several guns herself as is proficient with them, including an SP101 and LCR in 38, Sig 365 manual safety, Shield EZs in 9 and 380, a 20ga Mossberg 500 and a carbine length AR and has shot many of mine as well. But her favorite is her purple laminate youth stocked 10/22 that wears a Leupold red dot. She is DAMN accurate with it too. Has a 25 round mag in it loaded with CCI Velocitors and has 2 additional 25's and a 15 loaded and ready to go in the drawer. Leans in corner on her side of bed next to nightstand that contains her 365 with a 12rd mag of147gr HSTs and a spare 15rd mag loaded with same.
Agreeing with a 10/22s. You Need to get familiar with guns. Plus it’s cheap and no recoil, besides the action. And 30 round Mags. Anyone who says 22 is too weak, I will demonstrate on you what a 22 in chest will do to you. And honestly, soon as you shoot back, most of these punk as* bit*hes will run off.
If they are worried about rampaging gangs of BLM and ANTIFA then a shotgun isn’t the best weapon. An AR in .223 with varmint rounds and plenty of large cap magazines would be the best solution IMHO. They
I don't know anyone that I can think of who doesn't own a gun. I have been asked by people from work. I always recommend a pump shotgun or metal frame 9mm pistol.
I don't think those are the best choices, but they're the best most would actually buy. Better than a Glock at least. I always tell people Glocks are why cops can't hit anything and to not buy one unless they are willing to practice a lot.
I’ve read each post in order. I stopped at yours only because I’m sure someone has already quoted your post as absolute fûck’n garbage, and they would be correct.
If no one has quoted you...I apologize. They should have.
I don't know anyone that I can think of who doesn't own a gun. I have been asked by people from work. I always recommend a pump shotgun or metal frame 9mm pistol.
I don't think those are the best choices, but they're the best most would actually buy. Better than a Glock at least. I always tell people Glocks are why cops can't hit anything and to not buy one unless they are willing to practice a lot.
I feel sorry for anybody that believes you know WTF you're talking about.
Watch Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury, The way of the dragon, Game of death and Enter the dragon watch and watch again.. Practice and practice more before you know it you will be just as lethal as Bruce Lee..
I'm the gun guy that my EX BiL turns to in times of potential civil unrest, the last time was a possible hurricane event that went elsewhere.
That time and this I loaned him a 20 ga. double shotgun because its what I have on had and it is simple to understand.
In the decades when my Ex and son were in the house the home defense gun kept at hand was a 3" S&W Mod 60 loaded with .38 PlusP ammo.
That was the handgun they learned to shoot handguns with and again it was easy to operate under stress.
I still recall when I was in high school in NY State the neighbor's kid showing me his father's revolver which his father thought was "hidden". In NY State at that time, given the gun laws, handguns were objects of note, ya just didn't see one every day.
To the best of my knowledge my son never pulled that stunt, but if he ever did at least with a revolver you can see its loaded when you pick it up, plus my Ex always wanted to leave the Glock 19 chamber-empty.
The home defense scenarios I anticipated, if they were to happen, would be inside-the-house with little warning, at across-the-room distances.
I do agree a 10-22 would be a good place to begin for total newbies.
To the OP, I question the wisdom of them buying a firearm to defend themselves if they are embarrassed by the idea of even owning one, how are they going adopt the right attitude when they have a home invasion if that’s their attitude now? if you go down stairs when you hear a bump in the night without being in a combat ready mindset any self respecting crim is gonna bitch slap you/kick your butt before they kill you with your own gun, it would be hard enough for someone who already has a proper attitude and is comfortable with and well practiced with firearms, especially if you’ve just woken up, you’re in your PJs with no shoes on and it’s pitch black, you should really pressure them into getting some serious training, and not just target shooting but self defence type training where they get put under stress, with repetitive handling and manipulation drills to get really comfortable and safe with the weapon I mean how many videos are there of cops falling apart under pressure and they are totally useless, can’t hit anything despite being “trained professionals “ rant over.
To the OP, I question the wisdom of them buying a firearm to defend themselves if they are embarrassed by the idea of even owning one, how are they going adopt the right attitude when they have a home invasion if that’s their attitude now? if you go down stairs when you hear a bump in the night without being in a combat ready mindset any self respecting crim is gonna bitch slap you/kick your butt before they kill you with your own gun, it would be hard enough for someone who already has a proper attitude and is comfortable with and well practiced with firearms, especially if you’ve just woken up, you’re in your PJs with no shoes on and it’s pitch black, you should really pressure them into getting some serious training, and not just target shooting but self defence type training where they get put under stress, with repetitive handling and manipulation drills to get really comfortable and safe with the weapon I mean how many videos are there of cops falling apart under pressure and they are totally useless, can’t hit anything despite being “trained professionals “ rant over.
Cant really disagree with any of this. Ive encouraged them to make the trip here to be shown at least the fundamentals of loading, handling, and proper mindset.
A self defense course with live handling would be great...with the caveat that I have listened to a lot of self proclaimed defense experts who have never fired a shot in anger and whos "expert" opinions are pretty suspect.
is anything better on a scale of effective/easy to shoot?
For you and me, perhaps. Will a novice maintain them in a serviceable condition? Will they, at the worst possible moment, drop out the magazine when they meant to release the bolt?
Much better to give them a good, four inch, K-Frame, double-action-only revolver, stoked with premium .38 Special, and an external-hammer side-by-side 12 gauge, stoked with turkey loads. Someone breaks in, and they stuff the K-Frame in their pocket, grab the shotgun and cock the hammers. Nothing safer and simpler, and more than effective enough at room distances.
I’ve never had to defend myself or others in a domestic invasion type situation, but have had guns pulled on me twice, once by a drunk guy, once by a cop, not something I ever want to repeat, but I have been in situations like bar brawls (I worked in a few bars when I was young) and had a knife pulled on me once on the train on the way home from work of all places, that’s why I was saying that being in the right mindset is so important, probably even more than the physical/motor skills, I’ve experienced first hand how you can react completely differently in quite similar situations and it’s just down to your attitude at the time, that attitude is something that can be trained, some people seem to have it naturally, some people can learn it to varying degrees I don’t consider myself to be one of the ones who has it naturally, but I learned to switch it on when I was younger mostly through boxing and jiu jitsu training, but for me it doesn’t stay strong when I’m not training, I need to be switching it back on regularly to be able to do it when I need it, anyway it sounds like you are pushing them in the right direction, all the best.
My buddy, Bob, had a high-end brain surgeon for a cousin. Bob was a gun writer, so the surgeon asked Bob what his choice was for a self-defense gun. Without hesitation, Bob said a Ruger SP101. A few months later, the surgeon had a home invasion and popped she popped the perp with the SP101.
When it came time to buy a pistol for KYHillChick, I knew Bob would give similar advice. KYHillChick carries an SP101. At home, it never leaves her side.
Me? I'm a 12 GA guy. I've got a Rem 1100 with a deer barrel by the bed. I'd reach for it before the Ruger P90 (45 ACP) that's also close by. The first round is #6 birdshot. The next round is #4 buck. It gets progressively bigger. The last round is deer slug.
For a beginner? I personally think an AR is a bit daunting for a newbie. I've got an SKS at the farm because I might want to reach out a bit further. Son #2, Moose has a nice Ruger Mini-30 that he got from Bob's estate. That is an excellent piece of work. Personally I think both the SKS and the Mini-14 and Mini-30 are easier for beginners to grasp.
10/22? I'm not a big fan of 22 for self-defense. Yes, you may drop them. There are plenty of instances where it has happened like that. I'd be scared of the 22 not getting the job done fast enough. I've got a 30-Carbine flash hider on mine. It's there to as a damper and reduces the size of my groups, but it appears to the uninitiated that I've got something with a 80 caliber maw on it. It's intimidating visually, but I've never used it as a home defense weapon.
I mentioned in a previous thread that I actually had a home invasion once. I was buck naked on the bed when they showed up. All I had at the time was a claw hammer from my tool belt. I backed them down the stairs and out the door.
Mention this to your newbie friends: Besides a firearm, stock your house with lethal tools. Every room should have a claw hammer or a baseball bat or a machete or a crow bar. This comes from my Israeli buddy who had to fight her way to her UZI one day when the Palestinians tried to raid their settlement. Everywhere you go in the house, there should be something somewhere out of the way, but easy to reach. Keep backing up, room to room, until you can grab one of these tools and then come at them with all you've got. As soon as my friend told me this, I went up to the dollar store and bought a bucket of cheap claw hammers.
My buddy, Bob, had a high-end brain surgeon for a cousin. Bob was a gun writer, so the surgeon asked Bob what his choice was for a self-defense gun. Without hesitation, Bob said a Ruger SP101. A few months later, the surgeon had a home invasion and popped she popped the perp with the SP101.
When it came time to buy a pistol for KYHillChick, I knew Bob would give similar advice. KYHillChick carries an SP101. At home, it never leaves her side.
Me? I'm a 12 GA guy. I've got a Rem 1100 with a deer barrel by the bed. I'd reach for it before the Ruger P90 (45 ACP) that's also close by. The first round is #6 birdshot. The next round is #4 buck. It gets progressively bigger. The last round is deer slug.
For a beginner? I personally think an AR is a bit daunting for a newbie. I've got an SKS at the farm because I might want to reach out a bit further. Son #2, Moose has a nice Ruger Mini-30 that he got from Bob's estate. That is an excellent piece of work. Personally I think both the SKS and the Mini-14 and Mini-30 are easier for beginners to grasp.
10/22? I'm not a big fan of 22 for self-defense. Yes, you may drop them. There are plenty of instances where it has happened like that. I'd be scared of the 22 not getting the job done fast enough. I've got a 30-Carbine flash hider on mine. It's there to as a damper and reduces the size of my groups, but it appears to the uninitiated that I've got something with a 80 caliber maw on it. It's intimidating visually, but I've never used it as a home defense weapon.
I mentioned in a previous thread that I actually had a home invasion once. I was buck naked on the bed when they showed up. All I had at the time was a claw hammer from my tool belt. I backed them down the stairs and out the door.
Mention this to your newbie friends: Besides a firearm, stock your house with lethal tools. Every room should have a claw hammer or a baseball bat or a machete or a crow bar. This comes from my Israeli buddy who had to fight her way to her UZI one day when the Palestinians tried to raid their settlement. Everywhere you go in the house, there should be something somewhere out of the way, but easy to reach. Keep backing up, room to room, until you can grab one of these tools and then come at them with all you've got. As soon as my friend told me this, I went up to the dollar store and bought a bucket of cheap claw hammers.
for quite a few years, had to cross the desert into california to get to edwards afb, and deal with the restrictive laws in calif. advised the grandson there to keep camping equipment and tools in his car, claw hammer, machete, etc. better than nothing.
My buddy, Bob, had a high-end brain surgeon for a cousin. Bob was a gun writer, so the surgeon asked Bob what his choice was for a self-defense gun. Without hesitation, Bob said a Ruger SP101. A few months later, the surgeon had a home invasion and popped she popped the perp with the SP101.
When it came time to buy a pistol for KYHillChick, I knew Bob would give similar advice. KYHillChick carries an SP101. At home, it never leaves her side.
Me? I'm a 12 GA guy. I've got a Rem 1100 with a deer barrel by the bed. I'd reach for it before the Ruger P90 (45 ACP) that's also close by. The first round is #6 birdshot. The next round is #4 buck. It gets progressively bigger. The last round is deer slug.
For a beginner? I personally think an AR is a bit daunting for a newbie. I've got an SKS at the farm because I might want to reach out a bit further. Son #2, Moose has a nice Ruger Mini-30 that he got from Bob's estate. That is an excellent piece of work. Personally I think both the SKS and the Mini-14 and Mini-30 are easier for beginners to grasp.
10/22? I'm not a big fan of 22 for self-defense. Yes, you may drop them. There are plenty of instances where it has happened like that. I'd be scared of the 22 not getting the job done fast enough. I've got a 30-Carbine flash hider on mine. It's there to as a damper and reduces the size of my groups, but it appears to the uninitiated that I've got something with a 80 caliber maw on it. It's intimidating visually, but I've never used it as a home defense weapon.
I mentioned in a previous thread that I actually had a home invasion once. I was buck naked on the bed when they showed up. All I had at the time was a claw hammer from my tool belt. I backed them down the stairs and out the door.
Mention this to your newbie friends: Besides a firearm, stock your house with lethal tools. Every room should have a claw hammer or a baseball bat or a machete or a crow bar. This comes from my Israeli buddy who had to fight her way to her UZI one day when the Palestinians tried to raid their settlement. Everywhere you go in the house, there should be something somewhere out of the way, but easy to reach. Keep backing up, room to room, until you can grab one of these tools and then come at them with all you've got. As soon as my friend told me this, I went up to the dollar store and bought a bucket of cheap claw hammers.
This makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts.
is anything better on a scale of effective/easy to shoot?
For you and me, perhaps. Will a novice maintain them in a serviceable condition? Will they, at the worst possible moment, drop out the magazine when they meant to release the bolt?
Much better to give them a good, four inch, K-Frame, double-action-only revolver, stoked with premium .38 Special, and an external-hammer side-by-side 12 gauge, stoked with turkey loads. Someone breaks in, and they stuff the K-Frame in their pocket, grab the shotgun and cock the hammers. Nothing safer and simpler, and more than effective enough at room distances.
The problem I have with SXS's is that it's hard to find a quality, affordable one in 2020. I've been around some of the first Coach Guns and they were great. I've been around another that was a total POS and I wouldn't count on it to shoot a pigeon out of a rafter, much less protect my household.
Looking at it from another angle- Bad guy would have a really bad day if my 10yo daughter had a MP15/22 or AR15 in her hands. They would be relatively safe if she had a pistol of any flavor.
Obviously a 12ga is the wrong choice for a 10yo.
Point is, light recoiling rifles are way easier for a 10yo to hit with. And I see the same thing when I take novice adults shooting.
This makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts.
Bless your heart! I forgot you were back. I guess I'll have to start telling the jokes slower again.
Write soon. Write often.
You can start by explaining why you begin with a #6 and work your way to a slug.
I'd also love to know why a novice shooter would find the Mini-14 simple, and an AR daunting.
An explanation of how you developed your Blunderbuss theory would be great as well.
Thanks in advance.
People don't use spreader chokes, therefore, at close range #6 behaves like a slug. A fellow on another board scored an Ithaca 37 at closeout price of $499. This had fully rifled barrel, rifle sights with hi-viz inserts and long one piece magazine tube (I think it held 7). Choice of rifled barrel for HD isn't as stupid as it appears because there are several slugs for HD. The Federal Truball and Truball penetrators (those are 1300fps load not the insane ones loaded to 1600fps), Winchester BRI 2&3/4" and Lightfield Light slugs. The plain 1300fps Truball is preferred because it has least recoil, muzzle blast and flash. The Lightfield Lights tend to be most accurate but have most recoil and flash of the ones I mentioned. The Winchester loads does not kick hard but has lot of muzzle flash when shot indoors. The 12ga is preferred to HD because there are good variety of lower recoil loads more suitable to HD use.
People don't use spreader chokes, therefore, at close range #6 behaves like a slug. A fellow on another board scored an Ithaca 37 at closeout price of $499. This had fully rifled barrel, rifle sights with hi-viz inserts and long one piece magazine tube (I think it held 7). Choice of rifled barrel for HD isn't as stupid as it appears because there are several slugs for HD. The Federal Truball and Truball penetrators (those are 1300fps load not the insane ones loaded to 1600fps), Winchester BRI 2&3/4" and Lightfield Light slugs. The plain 1300fps Truball is preferred because it has least recoil, muzzle blast and flash. The Lightfield Lights tend to be most accurate but have most recoil and flash of the ones I mentioned. The Winchester loads does not kick hard but has lot of muzzle flash when shot indoors.
People don't use spreader chokes, therefore, at close range #6 behaves like a slug. A fellow on another board scored an Ithaca 37 at closeout price of $499. This had fully rifled barrel, rifle sights with hi-viz inserts and long one piece magazine tube (I think it held 7). Choice of rifled barrel for HD isn't as stupid as it appears because there are several slugs for HD. The Federal Truball and Truball penetrators (those are 1300fps load not the insane ones loaded to 1600fps), Winchester BRI 2&3/4" and Lightfield Light slugs. The plain 1300fps Truball is preferred because it has least recoil, muzzle blast and flash. The Lightfield Lights tend to be most accurate but have most recoil and flash of the ones I mentioned. The Winchester loads does not kick hard but has lot of muzzle flash when shot indoors.
Can you try again please?
I don't speak Polak.
Are you sure? I thought that was in your resume. 😏
Sig MPX. Not the rifle, a braced short barrel or sbr. Manual of arms similar to an AR, which my children learned in a weekend with Appleseed. Once you know how to load it and handle the safety you have a shoulder fired 9mm with virtually no kick. Far more stable an accurate than a pistol (unless the pistol is in the hands of a freak expert).
I've had several novice shooters literally shoot the bullseye out of targets. And, most importantly, they enjoyed shooting the MPX.
For any range found in my house this would be my go to gun. If I needed to arm my wife, who has taken one 4 hour pistol class and maybe shoot an additional 4 or 5 times, this is what I'd hand her. She shoots the MPX better then I, or anyone I know, shoots a pistol. Maybe not as fast, but accurate and comfortable.
This makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts.
Bless your heart! I forgot you were back. I guess I'll have to start telling the jokes slower again.
Write soon. Write often.
You can start by explaining why you begin with a #6 and work your way to a slug.
I'd also love to know why a novice shooter would find the Mini-14 simple, and an AR daunting.
An explanation of how you developed your Blunderbuss theory would be great as well.
Thanks in advance.
I think we covered all this in a previous disagreement. It really doesn't serve much use to go around about it again. I'm not trying to change your mind, so let's leave it at that.
Having dealt with several novices before, I just notice that AR's seem to appear overly complicated and daunting to the uninitiated. However, SKS, M1 Carbine, and Mini-14-type designs seem to make them more comfortable. My wife had all kinds of trouble relating to AR's and AK's, but I put a MIni-14 in her hands and it suddenly became "HERS!" I'm not going to defend it; I'm just making an observation. As a somewhat similar aside, my sons have a 20-something friend that just bought his own first weapon as a result of all the hoo-haw. It was an SKS. He paid $700 for it. My sons were a bit aghast, since it probably had a $350 street value. Don't ask me to defend that choice. He made it, and he was damn proud of it. It just felt "Right" to him.
I'm not familiar with the blunderbuss. I've shot one-- that's about it. I don't have any real experience with one.
This makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts.
Bless your heart! I forgot you were back. I guess I'll have to start telling the jokes slower again.
Write soon. Write often.
You can start by explaining why you begin with a #6 and work your way to a slug.
I'd also love to know why a novice shooter would find the Mini-14 simple, and an AR daunting.
An explanation of how you developed your Blunderbuss theory would be great as well.
Thanks in advance.
I think we covered all this in a previous disagreement. It really doesn't serve much use to go around about it again. I'm not trying to change your mind, so let's leave it at that.
Having dealt with several novices before, I just notice that AR's seem to appear overly complicated and daunting to the uninitiated. However, SKS, M1 Carbine, and Mini-14-type designs seem to make them more comfortable. My wife had all kinds of trouble relating to AR's and AK's, but I put a MIni-14 in her hands and it suddenly became "HERS!" I'm not going to defend it; I'm just making an observation. As a somewhat similar aside, my sons have a 20-something friend that just bought his own first weapon as a result of all the hoo-haw. It was an SKS. He paid $700 for it. My sons were a bit aghast, since it probably had a $350 street value. Don't ask me to defend that choice. He made it, and he was damn proud of it. It just felt "Right" to him.
I'm not familiar with the blunderbuss. I've shot one-- that's about it. I don't have any real experience with one.
I guess my real feelings on the matter is, a novice shouldn't be using firearms for protection.
If you're going to buy a firearm for protection you need to go to the local shooting range and burn powder until you learn how to use it,..and not be a novice any longer.
It's not difficult to learn to use a firearm well enough to defend yourself with it.
I guess my real feelings on the matter is, a novice shouldn't be using firearms for protection.
If you're going to buy a firearm for protection you need to go to the local shooting range and burn powder until you learn how to use it,..and not be a novice any longer.
It's not difficult to learn to use a firearm well enough to defend yourself with it.
Of course. Throughout American history, though, a large percentage of people who seek a firearm for home defense will learn basic function, then load it up and lean it against the wall in the closet, or stick it in a sock drawer. Just a reality.
Deflave, you have been telling me for years the "shockwave" is the answer to all these questions...... have things changed?
Seriously though, my wife is small and has weak hands and doesn't enjoy shooting AR15's and 12 gauge is out of the question, so the solution I came up with for her while I am gone is a 10/22, she loves it. It is lightweight, easy to shoot and she has confidence in it. She also has a small frame 3" barrel 38 revolver she feels confident with, I load it with hardcast wadcutters at 800fps. The 10/22 has the ten round factory mag with CCI mini mags h/p Those two guns and a 95lb Akita she feels pretty safe.
I went back and tried to understand how blunderbusses come in. I'm going to take a wild stab at this. I think Mister Flave is referring to the Rem 1100 with the deer barrel.
No, it isn't a blunderbuss. It's an I/C choke and it works very well as a skeet barrel as well as long as you can get past the sights. I won some money many years ago taking it out to the skeet range and folks would bet me I couldn't hit jack with it. I'm no skeet ace, but I could do maybe 20 of 25 with the deer barrel. The thing folks don't understand about cylinder and I/C chokes is they don't actually spray. Sure the pattern is more open, but inside a house the spread is pretty tight. It's been years since I tried, but as I remember a cylinder choke would put a round of #6 birdshot into 20 inches at 10 yards I/C would do maybe a third better. At ten feet, however, they're still both a single mass that hasn't left the wad. If you're coming out of a sound sleep, your aim is not going to be all that certain.
The reason for the #6 is that if you hit a perp anywhere important with #6 bird shot, his evening has just changed dramatically. He is no longer worried about you. His calendar is cleared. He's not thinking about anything but what's happened to him. I got this tip from a fellow whose pedigree was a marine armorer, an ex-cop, and an FD captain who spent 20-some years responding to calls in one of our town's worst neighborhoods. Jerry also owned his own gun store. Jerry was my best friend for years and this was the advice he gave me. From my memory of the subject, his advice came from seeing what #6 had done to a perp at close range. The perp had taken 1 round at close range. It was winter, and he'd been wearing a down vest. The front of the guy looked normal, but there was no back left to corpse, and there were feathers everywhere.
BTW: I would not recommend using a rifled deer barrel. My Rem 1100 is smooth bore. My Mossy 500 is rifled. I accidentally put the wrong barrel on the Mossberg and went out to sight in turkey loads (Duh!) I knew something was amiss when no pellets landed on the target. Yikes. A 3" inch load of high brass #4's was spreading about 10 feet at 20 yards with a 4-foot hole in the middle.
BTW#2: Jerry also had a story about 00 Buck. It seems somebody was diddling a woman when her husband came home and the vic went out a second story bedroom window, attempting an escape off the porch roof. He had to run barefoot through a vacant lot to his car, and would have gotten away, but he panicked and flooded out his Caddy convertible. Meanwhile hubby had been making his way across the lot armed with a pump 12 GA. He came up behind and sent a round through the ragtop. There was no head left, just a stump of a neck.
Deflave, you have been telling me for years the "shockwave" is the answer to all these questions...... have things changed?
Seriously though, my wife is small and has weak hands and doesn't enjoy shooting AR15's and 12 gauge is out of the question, so the solution I came up with for her while I am gone is a 10/22, she loves it. It is lightweight, easy to shoot and she has confidence in it. She also has a small frame 3" barrel 38 revolver she feels confident with, I load it with hardcast wadcutters at 800fps. The 10/22 has the ten round factory mag with CCI mini mags h/p Those two guns and a 95lb Akita she feels pretty safe.
.38/.357 double action revolver. Many available used and some police trade-ins that were carried alot but shot little. Stoke it and a couple of speedloaders with moderate defensive loads, add a pump action 20 gauge with stout field loads and a good flashlight and you are ready for just about anything. Note that you could most likely live several lifetimes before you had occasion to use them. If little ones in the home, store appropriately, they are more likely to get hurt than the bad guy.
I went back and tried to understand how blunderbusses come in. I'm going to take a wild stab at this. I think Mister Flave is referring to the Rem 1100 with the deer barrel.
No, it isn't a blunderbuss. It's an I/C choke and it works very well as a skeet barrel as well as long as you can get past the sights. I won some money many years ago taking it out to the skeet range and folks would bet me I couldn't hit jack with it. I'm no skeet ace, but I could do maybe 20 of 25 with the deer barrel. The thing folks don't understand about cylinder and I/C chokes is they don't actually spray. Sure the pattern is more open, but inside a house the spread is pretty tight. It's been years since I tried, but as I remember a cylinder choke would put a round of #6 birdshot into 20 inches at 10 yards I/C would do maybe a third better. At ten feet, however, they're still both a single mass that hasn't left the wad. If you're coming out of a sound sleep, your aim is not going to be all that certain.
The reason for the #6 is that if you hit a perp anywhere important with #6 bird shot, his evening has just changed dramatically. He is no longer worried about you. His calendar is cleared. He's not thinking about anything but what's happened to him. I got this tip from a fellow whose pedigree was a marine armorer, an ex-cop, and an FD captain who spent 20-some years responding to calls in one of our town's worst neighborhoods. Jerry also owned his own gun store. Jerry was my best friend for years and this was the advice he gave me. From my memory of the subject, his advice came from seeing what #6 had done to a perp at close range. The perp had taken 1 round at close range. It was winter, and he'd been wearing a down vest. The front of the guy looked normal, but there was no back left to corpse, and there were feathers everywhere.
BTW: I would not recommend using a rifled deer barrel. My Rem 1100 is smooth bore. My Mossy 500 is rifled. I accidentally put the wrong barrel on the Mossberg and went out to sight in turkey loads (Duh!) I knew something was amiss when no pellets landed on the target. Yikes. A 3" inch load of high brass #4's was spreading about 10 feet at 20 yards with a 4-foot hole in the middle.
BTW#2: Jerry also had a story about 00 Buck. It seems somebody was diddling a woman when her husband came home and the vic went out a second story bedroom window, attempting an escape off the porch roof. He had to run barefoot through a vacant lot to his car, and would have gotten away, but he panicked and flooded out his Caddy convertible. Meanwhile hubby had been making his way across the lot armed with a pump 12 GA. He came up behind and sent a round through the ragtop. There was no head left, just a stump of a neck.
I once had a Mossberg 12ga Semi auto with the short Deer Barrel ( rifled) I got to thinking about it and tested it on paper...the rifling Twist "opened up" the pattern of shot to 16 inches or so...at room distance! thats a pretty good "spread". My current HD barrel is a short Cylinder Choke, but I'm not worried about pattern inside the home. Those that have kids, other people in the house may want to use a 20ga with rifled Barrel and #8's or 9's. Sheetrock, however, will still not stop much of anything. A Boat Horn by the bed might scare the crap out of them too, run them out of the house......just saying.
Inside 30 yards, not much makes a statement like a 12GA and buckshot. Getting a novice to feel comfortable with a 12GA pump can be a challenge. Never shoot someone with birdshot, that probably will not workout well . For ease of operation a 38 revolver is a no brainer. The new easy M&P shield without a slide safety gets a honorable mention for woman and older folks. For someone willing to train a bit, glock17/19.
Inside 30 yards, not much makes a statement like a 12GA and buckshot. Getting a novice to feel comfortable with a 12GA pump can be a challenge. Never shoot someone with birdshot, that probably will not workout well . For ease of operation a 38 revolver is a no brainer. The new easy M&P shield without a slide safety gets a honorable mention for woman and older folks. For someone willing to train a bit, glock17/19.
that isn't really true. shot needs distance to spread at five yards no 6shot is gonna tear you a new one.
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