And taking this one.

ARCTERYX PROPPER ILBE BACKPACK
Same pack the Marine Corp uses.
http://www.ilbepack.com/

Paid $210.00 for it and it's every bit the quality of a MR or Kifaru. (ime)

For extra room I'll take along it's little brother the assault pack, attached it to the main pack and use it to haul out the light stuff or use it as a sleeping bag and mattress holder.

6000 using both. 4500 and 1500.

I'll take the lid off and use the main pack to take up the mountain from base camp and hopefully haul some meat off this year.
Lighter and not as stiff and cumbersome as my 6500 NICE.

Can I buy your MR on the cheap then?? Cool looking pack!! I plan to not even use my daypack lid on my 6500 at all. 900 cu in for 17 oz is a bit much IMO. I can get that with a GG pocket for only 5 oz on the side somewhere if I really wanted to.

Let us now how that thing works out for ya.

Thanks for the offer but, uh, no.

I used the 6500 last year and it was stiff and heavy w/o lid for where I go. Not exactly a hunting pack but a hauling pack. I'm hoping this ILBE set up will give me both. It's worth a try out anyways.

My son used an ILBE last year and I was pretty impressed with it and what he could haul with it.
He kept telling me, dad, what else do you want me to haul? Of course being in Marine shape helped him out.



That is a good idea.

How much weight have you carried in it so far? How does it ride?

I've loaded it to 70 lbs so far and was surprised how it felt. Just me and my body shape and am hesitant to say more till I really get out with it, but it hauled as good and mybe better than my 6500.

It's about 2 lbs less as well. Take the lid off and even less weight.

It's advertised to haul 120 lbs, hard to believe, but my son has hauled over a 100 lbs of stuff in his.

you are going to create a rush on those packs.. (grin) Looking forward to some pics of it full of boned out meat and a big rack.

SU,
Nice- looks like a helluva pack!
I look forward to some more pics of that with some elk antlers atop it.

LOL! i know....can't lose for less than $250.00.

One thing is for sure, it's 10x the pack the Sitka 4500 is.

You hush now. I haven't sold mine yet. (grin)

Dang, I thought you did.

i've been holding on to this for a couple of months now till a few others from here got there ILBE's. No kidding!

And great deals were to be had for the selected few......lols!

MtnHtr

So unless I'm reading things wrong... Ebay is currently the only place to pick up one of these?

Looks like a nice pack.

Ebay is it. The only place i know of.

A no lose deal for that price.

Somewhat reminds me of a Eb Dragonfly at first glance. Any resemblance to you? Looks like a nice pack!

It is really a very different pack than the EB.

This is the civilian version by Arcteryx.

http://www.leaf.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Packs/Tango

Looks close to the Kifaru MMR.

Bob,

What sized belt did you get, and what sized waist are you?

I was on e-bay at lunch and one of the ads specifically said the belt sizes run small (like medium = ladies medium, men's small)

David, I'm not Bob but I can answer your question. The std ILBE main pack comes with a standard issue men's medium belt and will fit 95% of all marines/sailors who wear the pack according to the manual. I'm 34" in the waist and no issues, plenty of adjustment either way.

MtnHtr

Cool,

Thanks alot. I ordered one.

from the pic it looks like a nice pack,

but (again from the pic) I'm thinkin I'd want to replace the hipbelt buckle system

Hi David,

I think you will be very happy with the pack.

Today I loaded both the MR 6500 and ILBE to 55 lbs and tested both out on some hikes.
At that weight, the ILBE wins hands down, it is so comfortable for my shape.
I've not loaded it with meat, yet, so that's an untested part of this pack for me.

Would love to hear feedback from you.

Here's the pack with an EB scabbard I attached, just messing around with it.

Without doubt this pack has all the quality of the very best made here in the USA for a 1/3 of the cost.

I've been using an old pack from 20+ years back as my 4500 range pack.

I'm pretty interested in seeing how the ILBE works.

Have another 50 miler with the scouts this Aug on Ross Lake. That'll be a pretty good shakedown, IMHO.

Plus, I have a Kifaru multi-mission ruck (MMR) so Jack and me can do a side by side comparison.

Are you guys just buying the used ones? I haven't been able to find any that are new. For the price, I guess it doesn't really matter though.

I bought one that was supposed to have been used but I could not tell it ever was. They are there to be had.

I'm working on a used one on e-bay.

Ya sure you don't wanna sell the MR 6500 to me now.

Glad the ILBE works for ya. Looks like a great bang for the buck pack.

You should try out an ILBE, you may be selling your 6500. lol

so do any big boys out there use one? what did you do for the belt?

i have a feeling my 40" waist is larger than 95% of marines

"Of course being in Marine shape helped him out."

Yeah, sometimes I like to pretend I'm as tough as I was 30 years ago in the Marines... But the steep ridges tell me otherwise... Ah well, I just chug along until I crest the hill, the miles just don't get eaten up as quickly as before.

Good looking pack, I may have to check on that...

Thanks, Guy

Torso length? Adjust to 23"? I didnt see the numbers in the addy...
Tom

They do make a size large waistbelt but not sure where one could be obtained.

There is a demand for these packs as well orchestrated on Ebay. I saw brand new ILBE main packs - 2nd gen go for around $375 shipped. One seller had (8) brand new sealed ILBE packs complete with assault pack & hydration bag for $400 shipped. He sold all of 'em in about a week IIRC.

These are well made packs, the workmanship and material is very good, similar to a Kifaru or MR like SU35 stated.

What I don't like so far:

The quick release shoulder buckles, kinda bulky. I can easily slip outta my pack if I take a dump crossing a river but it was designed for the Marines. They have different needs and situations. I obtained some regular buckles and will have a local shop swap the shoulder buckles out. Not a deal killer.

The two lower side compression straps are close together and if not kept tight the buckles clang together - noisy. Again not a deal killer, one can easily remove one of them from each side.

What I do like: The weight, the material and color. Pack is very comfy (packed 45lbs so far) and has good features. It does have alot of straps so I ordered some MR webkeepers to keep it a bit tidy. The pack's material is waterproof and one can easily obtain a replacement shoulder harness or belt should those become worn or damaged.

I plan to use the main pack to hike in, unload, remove the lid and hunt with it from camp. If it rains or snows I carry a pack cover. The pack has plenty of room for a boned out deer (at least 4500cu).

Another plus is the assault pack, I was planing to sell mine but decided to keep it.

MtnHtr

Nice to see some pics of it, thanks for posting.

Buddy of mine that is in the 'Stan at the moment, has shipped two home, one of which he says he is going to give to me. I can't wait to try it out, seems like one hell of a pack.

I'll be using one this year for colorado elk. Have not had a chance to give it a real workout yet but it seems to be very well made. Nicest pack I have owned yet. Nice price too on the used ones

Very interesting SU.
A couple of things. One, I don't see any Delta Straps to cinch the waist belt tighter to the hips and the small of the lower back.
I much prefer my hydration bladders inside the pack and close to the spine. That better distributes the weight of the water and it tends to keep the water from freezing in really cold weather.
I do like the tallish and skinny design. Lots of apparently very effective compression straps look good too.
I like a top lid. Good place to carry a handgun.
All in all, a very good buy for carrying loads, etc. E

Hello E,

Inside the ILBE back and close to the spine is a radio carrier/pouch that would work perfect for that application.

Marine description,

"The pack has an internal radio pouch, antennae hydration tube ports and an external bib for stuffing cold/wet weather gear, helmet etc onto the outside of pack. This bib also is built to house a 3L hydration carrier."


The pack gives you a choice for hydration, inside or outside.

No delta straps and doesn't seem to need them, I have not missed them.

The top lid is not heavy and really just right for the pack.

I have been especially pleased with it and believe it to be a more multi-purpose pack than my MR.

It may not be for everybody but it sure fits me.

Yep, and it has load lifters for all the load lifter freaks!

MtnHtr

I seem to remember a thread about load lifters. Can someone please verify that the ILBE load lifters are at the proper angle?

I would except I don't think I could fit a half a caribou or half a goat w/cape or a whole sheep in addition to my gear for a week or more when just 4200 in. Otherwise I would consider it.

There is an ILBE Recon version, the main pack is larger at 5500cu. I've seen some great deals on these, seems to be less demand for them (and one krazy seller trying to peddle one for $945 on ebay)
Here is a few details on one: Link They can be had for under $400 new sometimes.

MtnHtr

Can anyone who has used both compare this to the Kifaru Multi-Mission Ruck?

Interesting indeed. Wonder how it compares the the Bora 95 I had.

Fascinating. E

Just picked one up to try out off ebay. For the price, I figured I would give it a whirl. Should get it in a week or so.

I bought one off ebay last week & it landed this past Friday. I'm impressed with the build quality & features. I'm a big guy (6 feet; 250lbs) and it easily adjusted to fit my generous girth. It will be joining me on some hikes in North Carolina this coming weekend. Hope to compare it with an Eberlestock and Blacks Creek that I have as well.

Question: does anybody know whether the material is waterproof? I imagine that it is more "water resistant" than waterproof. I saw where plastic liners could also be bought off ebay. Anybody have any experience with the liners?

The ILBE has a waterproof coating applied to the inside of the pack.

"Prolonged exposure to water (especially salt water) will accelerate deterioration of the waterproof coating inside the ILBE pack system."

I'm going to continue using a waterproof pack cover on mine.

MtnHtr

Thanks for the help. That is probably good advice which I will certainly heed.

I'm trying out the NICE with the Alpha wolf bag, may be just about perfect.
Don

are you ILBE guys planning on using the pack as a day pack also after you set up a base camp?

I was trying to decide if its too big for that application.

Really dont want to carry the extra weight of another smaller pack.

Hopefully others will chime in but it is pretty big for just a day pack. Yes, you can compress it down but I don't know how well compressing it displaces the load weight. I should be able to test out its functionality as a day pack this coming weekend. Will post results on this thread...

I had a arc teryx bora which is similiar and its too big for a day pack if you are climbing up a tree stand. But, it's a great day pack for alpine hunting if you are after elk and need room for extra clothes to layer up or down, food, water, game bags, saw, spotting scope and poncho liner.

As you know there are gives and takes on this stuff.
I used my MR 6500 w/o lid last year as a day pack after setting up base camp.

I found the MR to heavy, to stiff, and to cumbersome to head up the alpine. For hunting and climbing with both hands it was a heavy pain in the butt. But I need enough pack to take the meat off the mountain.

The ILBE is a much better more comfortable pack to hunt and climb with and able to haul meat off just as well as the MR 6500. It may not be a classic day pack but it's a better day pack than my 6500 and THAT is the main reason I am leaving the MR home.

One thing though, if i do take a day pack with the ILBE both packs will weigh as much as the MR 6500 by itself.
And that has me thinking.

docdb,

The NICE with Alpha Wolf bag should be very good.

Comparing the two bag set ups

At 8 lb 10 oz the Alpha Wolf still out weighs the ILBE at 7 lb 6 oz.

The ILBE is rated to pack 120 lbs.

Quality is equal, both bags will last forever.

For hundred(s) $$$ less I can do everything the AW will do.

For climbing the mountain after base camp that NICE is just to stiff for my likes.

The reason I like the NICE frame is that you can drop your 6500 at camp. Then you just attach the double pocket top pouch to the frame to use as your day pack. Couple extra straps thrown in to tie down your first meat load load out.

I found the lid to be to small for me. It didn't have the capacity I needed for water and gear to head up the mountain.

It's to heavy and to small.

I tried it out last night and I think that I will let my ILBE double as my elk day pack.

If you compress it down and take take the lid straps all the way down to the lowest straps on the pack it gets down fairly small.

This will lighten my full pack in load by about 2.5 pounds by not carring a seperate day pack.

Of course the ILBE is a good bit heavier that my day pack but it is actully more comfortable and it will allow me to make the first meat pack out trip right after the kill if I get lucky.

That's exactly what I think.

i do like that pack .thanks for the postand the info.

Maybe it's the way I'm built, but I can't get the MR double pocket lid to carry well. It needs a horizontal stiffener to keep it from drooping. If I tighten up the pack to do that it screws up my bow draw and generally feels constrictive.

Attach it to your frame! The frame is whats so nice because of the comfort factor.

I see some are advertised as Gen II, is there much of a difference and how do you tell be looking at the pack.

Just trying to find a toplid for one is a pain. There's two on th bay right now, but the price they're commanding is just silly IMO.

NXP

Missed that thread I guess. However, anyone that thinks load lifters and their position aren't/isn't critical on an IF just hasn't used IF's much...

Just an FYI for those of you interested: These packs sell new in the uniform shops on base for almost $500. They are quite a bargain at the used/surplus prices.

Would the Medium belt go down to a 30 inch waist? I am very tempted to pull the trigger on one, but I am afraid the medium might be a little too big.

Also, I may have missed this, but do these packs have adjustable torso length?

Finially someone said it!! Thanks Brad

The Gen II will have the coyote tan back pad, inside of shoulder straps & waist belt. The Gen I has black in the same areas.

MtnHtr

You're welcome (grin).

Seems there are a lot of newbies around here with a couple years experience carrying internals that somehow think they've learned all there is to know about them.

I've carried internals exclusively since 1978 (at one time counted how many I've used, but it's over twenty five), and am always learning something about them... one thing I know for sure, anyone that thinks load lifters and their position aren't critical is just displaying their ignorance/lack of experience.

Gents,

I have in my hands a Kifaru Gen 2 multimission Rick (MMR)

how is the pack being discussed better? Oter than used = 1/3 the price of the Kifaru.

David,

Unless someone does a side by side comparison of both packs then the jury is still out. The price is a big draw on these packs and they are solidly built . SU35's son has used an ILBE extensively and unlike some posters on here who go around beating their chests on how long they've been backpacking I'll take SU35's, his boy's and Bryant's word these are great packs. And yes the load lifters are great, I see Brad is up to his usual dufus internet antics.

MtnHtr

Where can I acquire one of these packs? Only Ebay, or do I have other options?

Ebay is the only place I've been able to find them.

PM me. I may have another option for you....

I suppose the "get what you pay for" is about right for $200ish. And too, it really is perfect for every kool-aid drinker out there that thinks just because the <insert military branch here> uses it, it must be the cat's ass.

Don't get me wrong, it is a pretty decent pack overall, and I still really like mine (civvy version) for what it is, but I'd exercise a little caution to anyone contemplating buying one if you expect to load it up with some serious dead weight due to the suspension issues, which are two-fold:

1) Unless they've dramatically increased the strength of the internal aluminum stays from the civilian versions - which from the video look identical in build to mine), the "frame" is laughably flimsy compared to some better built hunting packs on the market. The civilian version I have is good comfortwise for less than 50-60 pounds and while I've carried out some monster 100+ lb. loads, it becomes pretty obvious that some much beefier stays would be mo betta. And by flimsy, I mean in comparison to heli-beefier suspension rigs like my Kifaru G2 Longhunter, and G2 Siwash for that matter). Just push down on the top of the stays in a side by side comparison test and the difference is pretty dramatic...fold vs. no-fold. Load that Arcteryx up and the stays will begin to flex and inevitably push that thermo molded "padding" into your lower back (I'm referring to that lower portion of the upper pad that velcros the lumbar pad in place). I ended up with some weird crunchy blistered spots on my lower/mid back where that "padding" tried to rub a hole through my skin one time after a heavily meat laden ex-fill, and promptly started my search for a better pack. Which in turn also leads to the other drawback to the suspension...

2) The ventilation of the back padding is a bit of a joke in that it is essentially non-existent (again, especially in comparison to Kifaru's G2 duplex suspension). Yeah, the little thermo molded depressions are there and the pack initially feels good snugged into your back and all, but they are mostly cosmetic and don't allow for very good, if any, ventilation and cooling. The ventilation issue isn't a big deal during cooler temps or I suppose if one is only going on make-believe hikes up cup-cake trails during high-buck, but there are much better and more comfortable pack suspensions on the market (especially at full retail $500ish dead-bird price points).

Pic for visual reference...

Bushcraft

Bless you friend, I hope you find the perfect hunting grounds and kill a 30" mule deer this fall.

Bushclown,

Yea, kill a big one for me too.

MtnHtr

I'm sorry MtnHatr, I haven't followed any of your nearly 7,500 posts. Are you always that stupid, or are you just making a special effort today?

I mean really, far be it from me or anyone else on this board to actually speak from experience about something and have an opinion that runs contrary to a mighty Camp Jacker like you!

And thanks SU35, best of luck to you as well.

Bushcraft,

Love the photo of those flimsy aluminum stays, can you believe the Aryctex engineers were so stupid to use 7075-T6 aluminum on the Tango? And all the marines are so dissatisfied having to pack that pos? They would rather go back to the Alice maybe? I'm sure you can fill us in some more, please do! And post some photos of your Tango in action, hopefully you have some photos of your blistered back? That is terrible!

TIA,

MtnHtr

MtnHtr,



In the interest of helping others that are contemplating an Arctery'x ILBE purchase vs. other hunting packs, I've actually done the side by side use, comparison and review and gave at least two perfectly valid explanations as to why the Arctery'x's Bora/Tango/ILBE suspension is inferior to the Kifaru G2 Duplex suspension.

With that being said, if you merely want to continue being a "the Marines use it so there must not be anything better" kool-aid drinking, high-post count jackass that hasn't actually done one iota of a side by side comparison, by all means...carry on! I mean, when you are that good at nothing, what's stopping you right?

Anyway, for the rest of you that might be interested in the facts, I called up Dead Bird today since I didn't know for certain if the ILBE's suspension was beefed up from the civvy versions or not (I noted this in my original post BTW) and I wanted a definitive answer. I was told that the Arctery'x Bora, Tango and ILBE all have virtually the same suspension and that the Tango has a slightly different means by which it's belt couples into the pack, but the Bora's and the IBLE's suspensions are identical. The only real difference is the bags. If ya don't believe it, call 'em up and ask 'em for yourself if ya like. It's a toll free number.

Back to the suspension comparison - at least for all of you that are more interested in a factual side-by-side comparison, let the following picture speak a thousand words...the stays pulled from my packs:



If you don't believe that the much beefier Kifaru stays are stronger and far less prone to flexing than the comparatively flimsy Arctery'x stays...well, you are blind, dumb and I can't help you.

And that's just the stays! The frame-sheet is much, much more rigid and stronger on the Kifaru than the Arctery'x's frame sheet. Plus, the Kifaru G2 Longhunter is a modular concept, whereas the Arctery'x Bora/Tango/ILBE packs are not. Couple those design attributes together and you end up waaay ahead support-wise with the Kifaru. I realize it's a bit subjective, but IMO Kifaru's hip belt is also A LOT more comfortable under heavy loads that the Arctery'x belt. If you are thinking about buying the Arctery'x, why buy a pack that weighs as much as it does if the frame is flimsy in comparison to other, better , more modular hunting packs that are on the market?

Like I said, you get what you pay for. The Arctery'x is a pretty decent pack overall, especially at the used $200ish price point, and is reasonably comfortable with loads up to the 50-60 lb and will certainly get the job done with 100 lb. + loads. (EDIT: I'd actually like to have the Bora pack bag on my Kifaru G2 Duplex frame.) But the suspension system isn't even close to being in the same league as the Kifaru G2 Longhunter WRT suspension design and comfort...which is why I upgraded to the G2 Longhunter and G2 Siwash and now use my Arctery'x pack as a loaner and for workouts.

The day I started thinking about upgrading my Arctery'x pack to one that was designed from the start to carry heavy loads of dead critters a long ways out of the backcountry...





YW,

Allen

Excuse me, but I don't think anyone here on this post has gone on record as saying this is the reason why we like the pack is because the Marines use it.
Nobody said that and nobody here is drinking any kool-aid.


I mentioned my son who is a Marine used his on a hunt last year and he loaded over a 100 lbs on it and
hiked up 6 miles with a 5,000' elevation change.
Granted he is in Marine shape but he did it and was asking me if I could load anything else on him.
He weighs 170 lbs by the way.

I've loaded it to 80 lbs for a 8 mile "break in hike" and found it fit me better than my MR 6500 NICE.
I like it, for that reason alone, and if that's drinking kool-aid give me some more.



That is correct, but we already knew that. So what is your point?

Nobody here is saying the ILBE is better than the Kifaru.

We are saying that for $200.00 you can get a darn good deal on a slightly used pack that does a good job of hauling and for me I'm leaving the MR home.

$200 for the ILBE sounds like a pretty good deal, but how come it is now getting compared to a Kifaru? I am a little confused, $200 vs $500? I appreciate the review Bush, but you don't have to do it with such a smug attitude. I don't think anyone ever said it was the best hunting pack out there, but just a great vaule for one.

Sorry, Big W...there's a bit of history here that I like to poke a little fun at from time to time.

Unless he's changed it, he directly compared it to Kifaru and MR in his orginal post.

SU35,

Fine, if you want to resort to playing games, I can play along too. I didn't say anything on the record that anyone here specifically drinks deeply of the jarhead kool-aid. I did make an inference though that there are those that exhibit said tendency.

But, you did go on record as saying:


Which just ain't so - at least for anyone that has actual hands-on experience.

Basically, I'd just as soon not see people read your or anyone else's ill-informed second or third hand bulls*** comparison of said product(s) and end up buying something that's decent but markedly inferior to much better suspension systems on the market.



Ha!!!

Really??? Must you persist with your near legendary exagerations of your backcountry exploits? Tsk. Tsk. Let's see now...the highest possible point minus the starting elevation...8,511' - 3,226 = 5,285' total maximum elevation gain.

So, tell me why you, or at least your son, felt inclined to hike up near the top of this nearly sheer sided mountain with 100 lbs. on his back during a high buck hunt??? Is that where the bus driver told you all the really big muley bucks would be last year???



At least you are finally telling the truth with regard to the 6 miles vs. the epic mileage lies of years past.

Yawn............

You all are pretty harsh on each other. ;-)

I think there are good options for all price points. For those who can't afford it or who won't need a kifaru, Barney or MR for packing out a camp and meat in one trip, I'm sure this is an excellent option (especially for the money).

I have the similar civilian version, the bora pack made by arc teryx and it's a great pack. I was carrying it when I killed my first three elk. Was it the best for humping out quarters - No, but it worked and was pretty darn nice for packing my snivel gear around on a daily basis.

Now I have a MR and my hunting partner has a Kifaru, but we got better jobs after getting out the army so now we can buy more expensive toys.

If only more of your 7,430 posts were that useful MtnHtr.

Bushcraft,

First of all, I've changed nothing on any post.

Second, The ILBE is every bit the quality of construction/durability of the MR and Kifaru.
I should have qualified that, durable, ok?

If you don't agree with that, that's okay, it's not the end of the world for you. You don't have to start trashing me or anyone else that disagrees with you. That seems to be a bad habit with you.

Third, you don't have a clue where my son and I went on our backpack elk hunt last year, hint, it was not WA state, so why are you posting pictures and numbers of some fantasy of yours?

The only scouting you know how to do is on the internet and it's there that you find out where other hunters hunt and are successful. That is where you will be, I found that out last year.
Funny thing is, any real hunter could lead you by the hand to an area and you'd just muck it up.
That's because you don't have a clue how to hunt trophy animals and that just bugs you to no end.
You don't have what it takes so you make up for it by trashing those who do. That is what pricks do and you're a prick.

You have no shame in what you do.

Being that you're bi-polar and obviously off your meds I'll just put you back on ignore.
You have an axe to grind and for who knows why?
Only in your sick psychotic mind can you make this crap up.


Bushcraft,

You have egg all over your face you should go clean up a bit.

Bushcrap,

Really? Whoever claimed the Kifaru was superior? Or more comfy?

You left something out - explain what is inside those sleeves circled in green:




A picture of some bagged/hanging meat w/rifle and trekking poles.....yawn! BTW, where's the civie version loaded with meat and horns?



A picture of a civilian Bora 90 or 95, less meat??? Very impressive!






So why would you loan a pack out to your buddies that blistered your lying ass?

MtnHtr

Bushcrap,



Are you sure about this? (in red) Kifaru's quality is better?

MtnHtr

1). For what is worth, you still get raw spots on your lower back with a MR or a Kifaru if you are humping 125 lbs rucks out over any distance.

2). The funny thing about the military is that your load configurations are reversed usually from hunting. When you insert into your AO in the military, most of your load is from expendable items - mortar rounds, extra linked ammo, water, MREs, batteries, etc., You use lots of it up so you probably (but not always) come out a whole lot lighter. Elk hunting is just the opposite - my goal is to come out way heavy with my chritmas roasts and summer sausage makings, not to mention my new elk hide blanket.

SU35,

WRT changing your post, I didn't say you did.

WRT construction and durability, fine. The sewing and materials are typical Arctery'x quality. However, the suspension sucks in comparison to the Kifaru G2 Duplex though and people that are contemplating spending their hard earned money ought to at least get that in a review since the most important feature of a backpack is its suspension. Can't you get that point through your thick ****ing skull???

Sorry, I thought you mentioned that your son had either been in college or was on leave from fulfilling his military obligations. Different trip with your son on an elk hunt that took place out of state last year, fine. Whatever. If you are telling the truth, which I have good reason to doubt...wipe, wipe.

Silly me for figuring you weren't just pathologically lying again about epic excursions to your favorite trophy high buck hunt area that you spent so much time and energy scouting before you shot your "trophy".

Oh...wait! That's right! You had never even set foot in that basin you shot your "trophy" for which you thumped your chest and gained so much notoriety and "respect" around here from people that you lied to about a gruelling 15 mile in-fill back when you started getting serious about backpack hunting a few years ago. You wouldn't have changed your plans to go up into the Hart Lake and Lyman Lake areas that particular year unless the Holden bus driver told you about the bucks up around Holden Lake and Martin Ridge. Ergo the picture I just posted of Martin Peak, a very real place, and some very real elevation stats. Deny that you told me any of this and you are a ****ing liar, and you know it.

You really want to speak of shame? As far as no shame goes, I never did get that public apology from you even though you admitted privately you were wrong but wouldn't publicly apologize and set the record straight since you knew we were going into Riddle and Castle Creek. That is some spineless ****ing bull***. Expect me to be honorable and decent and keep my word while you get to lie and run me through the mud, well F you Bobby boy.

You and Chuck were the ones that trashed me and my hunting partner first, out of the blue, absolutely without merit. Quite frankly, I have no idea why Chuck put up with your dumb ass for posting all those pictures to stroke your own boundless Campfire ego.

Want some more numbers rubbed in your face?

Try these on for size ****wad...E 662,809 N 5,343,852 Zone 10.

GASP!

I've got TONS of places I've reviewed and marked up on maps and on foot in WA, ID and OR and am looking forward to filling the freezer again this year. For you to think for one moment that I need you or anyone else's input on the habits and hang-outs of deer, elk and bear is both laughable and highly delusional.

Obviously, I no longer have any reservations whatsoever about outing you as the spineless, bumbling, internet dipshit that you are...or "your" oh so secret remote and difficult to get to spot (lie) that you worked so hard for (lie) and earned the hard way (lie).

So, in case you missed it Bob, this is my way own special way of saying **** you.

MtnHtr,

That's easy. Two trips. The first with most of the meat and the second with scraps and camp. Or maybe you haven't had to carry an elk out of woods before.

Those VERY flexible rods are not directly related to the pack's load bearing system, but then you'd know that if you weren't such a dumbass.

As for the loaner, I try and get new people involved in shooting and hunting every year. Not everyone can go out and fork out the dough for a Kifaru or MR pack. Nor should they since they might very well find out that the mileage, elevation and the elements aren't for them.

I guided one of these new guys onto a deer last year and he walked out with both hams, the backstraps and horns...but then again, that's a comfortable load for the Bora's suspension. I carried the rest of the meat and our camp out on my back.

So, **** you too.

Allen

Conrad,

I hear you. 125 lbs wants to push you down no matter how you look at it. But, some packs are obviously more comfortable under such a load than others, which I presume is why you and your buddy upgraded to the beefier Kifaru and MR suspensions.

I haven't had the blistered mid-back issue with the G2 Longhunter suspension. The G2's bag setup is different than the G1. The G1's bag surrounded the frame and has a lot less ventilation vs. the G2's bag that attaches much differently. Same goes for the Siwash ventilation, but the bag isn't a modular component to the frame.

Allen

Bushclown,

No surprise you would stoop so low, and no doubt you are unethical, and a low life to boot.

You are not a good person by any means, and you more than proved that on here tonight.

You've proved nothing on this thread except you know how to bullschitt and you did a sorryass job at that.

MtnHtr

MtnHatr,

You knew nothing about me before you posted on this thread and you still don't.

And my ethics are such that I hold others to the same very high expectations. If they cross me, they'd better damn well own up to it with me. He trod upon something valuable to me and didn't apologize. I'm just happy to be able to return the favor.

Another person I'm sure you know next to nothing about is Bob.

But keeping on sucking up to him though, even though you now know the ugly facts about his lying ass.

Allen

Judging from your past posts on here and other forums I don't want to know you.

You're a sick, twisted individual who needs some serious help.

Good luck to you and thanks for sharing your most impressive pictures, one could use a good laugh after reading your trash.

MtnHtr

I see you are once again making a special effort at being stupid.

And thanks for your highlighted pack picture that quite impressively illustrated how much of a moron you are and how little experience you actually have with backpack technology. (That wand has been around for years...see Dana)

Yep, you sir are a genuine blueprint for building one hell of an idiot.

Bushcrap,

You think I'm going to tell you how and where I hunt and tell you the truth? Are you that stupid?

Keep trying, hunkabunkabeanstalk, your getting colder, no hotter!

LOL!



Yeah, right, and that's why you showed up last year. Did you fill the freezer last year from there? No, you didn't and you just lied again.
Just admit it, you scout the internet and then get delusional mad if real hunters don't tell you the truth as to where they hunt.



Btw,

In regards to the ILBE/ Arcteryx.

In your own words.


From your own kool-aid.

You are one sick minded freak.

You have no ethics and never have.




edited to add comment

No Bob. You are the one without a clue. It doesn't help your case any that on top of that you are a liar.

Are you really going to deny that you shot that buck up in that area? Really?

Are you really going to deny that you weren't up there again last year? Really?

Before you answer (and lie yet again), there's a lot of people on here that saw the pics with Bonanza in the background and know the truth of the matter. So do yourself a favor and give it up, liar.

WRT to my dated comment from years ago I had nothing to hide then and I have nothing to hide now. I bought that brand new Bora 80 back then when my wife spied it mispriced for $150 at the REI in Reno (this is public knowledge since I posted that little tidbit as well if you want to keep digging), which was well before Kifaru came out with their G2 lineup (also public knowledge). That was then, this is now.

Arcteryx makes some decent 50-60 lb. packs for the money, but there are far superior suspension systems on the market.

You are an idiot and always will be.

Allen

edited to add comment

Are you going to deny you saw where we hunted and then told us you were going to be up there as a result of seeing where we hunted?
Sure enough, you showed up.

I personally could never do that. My ethics would never allow it.
Then I try to throw you off by giving you a line about a bus driver which I thought was funny and you take it personal. You're weird.

You have no ethics and that's proven by the way you have acted here.

You prey on hunters and have a reputation for beating down anyone who defies you in any way. Going to extremes to do it.

I'll say it again,

Only in your sick psychotic mind can you make this crap up.
I have never meet anyone like you who has a gift for twisting the truth into a lie like you do.
Talking to you is like talking to someone possessed. I'm sure I am.

I'm going to put you on ignore now Allen.
You have demonstrated time and again that you
are not worth listening to, nor wasting time
arguing with.

You got what you what you wanted on this post when you showed up to trash me.
You had an axe to grind from last year.
If you think you hurt me by giving away a hunting spot I'm sorry to tell you I have others and I can assure you I won't be posting about here.
Beast like yourself prey on that stuff.



Edited to add

*** You are ignoring this user ***

SU35,

Still attempting to perpetuate your web of lies I see.



Here's a couple clues jackass...

1) ANYONE that can read a map can clearly see that the Castle Creek drainage (our destination all along) isn't anywhere near where you hunt around Holden Lake or Martin Ridge. You know, the spot up the cup-cake trail from Holden that visitors day hike up to with their wives and little kids. Epic 15 miles?...hardly. Am I going to deny I saw where you hunted? Hell no! The whole freakin' world was able to see where you hunted thanks to all the chest-beating pics you posted, not once but two years in a row, even though Chuck begged you not to. What a moron! You really are an awesome and totally trustworthy hunting partner. Not.

2) The fact that there are some pretty decent bucks that come out of that whole Chelan country...is...not...a...secret. Me, my hunting partner, and thousands of others that can read the printed word, know how to read maps, and understand the behaviors and habits of mule deer have known that for a long, long time. Am I going to deny we rode the boat up Chelan and then rode the bus up past the switchbacks part way to begin bushwacking up into some completely different drainage systems that were miles from your cupcake camp at Holden Lake? Of course not. We had to do that to get into the drainage we were planning to glass and hunt. Are you really that much of a self-absorbed prick to think that we or anyone else would want to hunt with your dumb ass? Geezus, you are a freakin' moron!

Good luck truthfully denying you hunted up there you lying freakin' jackass.

And by the way, have a nice day and and even nicer trip up there to Holden again this year. Should be a real comfortable bus ride.

Allen

Bushcraft (Allen),

You are a piece of work! Listing specific basins, areas, and eastings and northings is about as low as you can go and gives hint to the kind of charachter or man you are.

You were crying in the post last year about them running your name through the mud. They really didn't have to do anything. the train wreck that you are on here is/was good enough.

I have followed the posts from the time that charlie and bob killed their big buck in '08. Yeah I have a copy of their pictures on my computer, yeah I know where it is. The difference is I would never go there and I would NEVER lay it out for everyone on the net to see.

"Tuff" informed me on some of the behind the scenes and the way bushcraft explains it is incorrect.

What can I say, I guess you were lied to as well.

And no, lying about what someone else did to make yourself look better is as low as you can go.

So how does these Propper built packs compare to the quality of the Arcteryx Bora packs that they are almost an identical twin of and designed by?

The reason I ask is because I see a lot of these things on ebay and many of them have blown out zippers etc. So is it a case of the military being harder on them than the average backpacker/hiker, or is it that the design was bought and sold to Propper and corners were cut to make a cheaper priced end product for the contract.

As to the ability to carry a 100+ lbs I have no doubt the ILBE version if a full copy of the Bora isn't ideal for it. The Bora was always listed as ideal to carry up to about 60-70lbs and that's it. Propper may list them as up to 120 lbs but if the design is the same it's probably more of a "Well for an enlisted man it's good enough for 120lbs" but not ideal.

This might be a stupid question, but..


Can you guys post your best bucks you've taken in the high buck hunt? I'm curious what kind of specimens these are to cause such a stir.

Meanwhile, back on topic....

I have a Kifaru long hunter and a Kifaru G2 MMR, and the IBLE pack.

The MMR G2 rides the best for me ($500+), and the Long hunter G1($500+ as well) is second, but the IBLE is very useable and pretty sweet considering I paid $165 delivered on E-Bay.

I was going to take either the MMR or IBLE on a recent canoe 54 miler on Ross Lake in the Cascades, but the scouts dumped the long hike portion to save a day. So, I'll have to schlep them up hills in the local area to determine which one I'll hunt with prior to the season this year.

That's a great buy David. I'm looking forward to your review.

I suspect that you are right Toddm. The military guys are naturally going to be harder on their gear than the average joe backpacker that babies his pack and reasonably expects it to last for years and years.

I think you are spot on with regard to your thoughts in your last paragraph too.

You should see the difference in the way we treated weapons. I would never take a sako 75 or pre 64 Winchester and strap a bayonet on it
and then proceed to stick it in something and use the barrel as a pry bar or use it to butt stroke something. Or hold them like a plank between two guys so a third could use it as a step ladder to get a leg up on a wall.

I'm no Marine by far but I do see them in training once in awhile a few hours away. Marines beat the phug out of their stuff.
Here's some country I've spotted them rappelling down with their gear/packs though they were not there the day I snapped these photos a couple months ago (or they were in stealth mode):




A few ILBEs in action, they do load them up.


The quality of these packs is quite good, I've owned both MR and Kifaru, and Propper Int'l (not Artyctex) does every bit as quality work (ILBE Stitch Count - Packs average 9-10 stitches per linear inch vs. the industry standard of 7-8 stitches per inch. This unique high stitch count is used on all of the seams, providing a stronger, better quality seam) These packs get tossed around quite a bit, on and off transport, cliffs etc.

As for the ILBE's alum stays, it has been upgraded to 7075-T6 aircraft grade aluminum (instead of the 6061 aluminum stays found in the civies Boras Bushcraft is beating his chest about in his flawed comparison). More on alum strengths - click here

Bushcraft's Bora alum stay: 6061 Yield Strength, 40,000 psi

ILBE alum stay (aircraft): 7075-T6 Yield Strength, psi 73,000


I'm sure if a poll was taken among these boys the results would vary on comfort as pack comfort is very subjective. Too many different body/physical types. Next time I'm up that way I'll have to pick a few Marine's thoughts on the ILBE, far more reliable info than some wannabe from the Kifaru forum.



MtnHtr

Good point MtnHtr, no wonder I'm loading it up and finding it comfortable. True, it's subjective for each person but then I own an ILBE to know for sure.

SU,

You know this already but I'll post this for the masses: both yield and ultimate tensile for 7075-T6 are at least 80% higher than 6061-T6.

MtnHtr

MtnHtr,

How exactly is my comparison flawed? When I called Arctery'x to verify that the suspension systems, including stays, of the Bora and the ILBE, the reps told me they are...IDENTICAL...as in...THE SAME.

If the designer/manufacturer of the pack(s) is wrong about what they are saying to the public about what goes into their packs (vs. you, who did not design or make the pack...or any packs for that matter), then how exactly is the rest of the world supposed to know the difference?

If they are in fact made from different grades of aluminum and I was misinformed by Arctery'x, fine. Installing better/thicker stays would be an excellent upgrade to an otherwise pretty decent $200 pack. Next up would be fixing the back padding and ventilation (or you could just by a better suspension system from the get go). And, while they are at it, they can get rid of the other BS stuff on the pack like the carry handles and so forth.

And, forgive me since my physics classes were a long time ago, but doesn't the load bearing capacity of a column decrease as the slenderness ratio increases? As such, wouldn't the numbers you posted with regard to yield strength have less to do with columnar buckling from axial and eccentric loads than what the deltas in the yeild strength figures you posted might otherwise imply? Hmmmmmmmm?

Keeping this slenderness ratio in mind as it relates to column buckling under axial and eccentric loads, if your ILBE's stays are of a different material, but still much thinner in comparison to the Kifaru G2 stays...how does that really help your thesis that my comparison was flawed exactly?

I'm curious, could you measure the stays in your IBLE and post a pic? Even better if you could post the side-by-side differences with your Kifaru G2 stays.

Allen

Bushcraft,

No, I won't forgive you - fools hang themselves if given enough rope and what a mighty fine example you are!


The bottom line is this: You based your comparison using your civie Bora with 6061 alum stays instead of the ILBE's much stronger aircraft grade alum 7075-T6 alum stays againest Kifaru's G2 stays. So your comparison was flawed from the start, you are on a smear campaign.

And what's your point anyways on the stays? The ILBE's suspension is different in design anyways from the G2, the alum stays are only one part of the picture.

MtnHtr

Speaking of fools hanging themselves, no, the bottom line is I called Arctery'x and they told me they were identical. And so I proceeded with the comparison.

Perhaps that is above and beyond your comprehension skills.

Look it up for yourself, if you can.

Anyway, the point is...since you obviously missed it...the stays are one of the most important components of this sort of internal frame pack suspension system. If one is inferior to another, that ought to be part of a valid review that people might reference when making a $200+ purchase.

I'm still curious, could you measure the stays in your IBLE and post a pic? Even better if you could post the side-by-side differences of your Arctery'x Bora/ILBE stays with your Kifaru G2 stays.

...oh that's right. You can't.

Which makes your input on the comparison all the more helpful to those that might be shopping for high quality hunting packs. Not.

Mtnhtr,

You mention the stitching on these packs.
Did you find any difference between the MR, ILBE, and the Kifaru?

I'm not the one making claims here on how the Kifaru G2 is superior to the ILBE. You did in your OP and so the burden of proof is on you.



Like I stated before, stays are only one part of the picture. If I want a super stiff pack, I'll go to an external. A small amount of flex is desirable in an internal pack IME - it makes for a more comfortable ride. Too much yield strength and one cannot bend the stays if needed on some folks. Anyone can add super stiff stays like you are touting on the G2 but stiffness is only one part of the picture. Kinda surprised you have not brought this up with all your experience packing meat.



Now how would you know an ILBE's sewing is "typical Arctery'x quality" when you never had an ILBE in your hand?

Thats just one example of your foolish assumptions......

You got smoked, bottom line.

MtnHtr

Yes, quite a bit. Unlike some my Kifaru's stitching was defective. Enough so to their credit they replaced the bag portion of it (Siwash)

And I would purchase another Kifaru in the future too. Great customer service on their end.

MtnHtr

Man, I just love it when one guy "smokes" another on the internet.

Hot damn!!

Smokepole I must have missed it. How does a person go up in smoke on the internet? I need to pay more attention.

Haha! Yeah, getting "smoked" sucks.

I'm just hoping the WA crew puts up some High Buck pictures. Sounds like a heck of a hunt, but damn their is some drama involved in it.. Are their only 4 or 5 bucks that everybody is chasing?

Sounds like you shoot them right out the window of the bus. Cool.

From the sounds of it you think there was. Who can hike in farther, pack out more, climb steeper mountains, shoot the biggest buck, it's just a d!ck measuring contest. I can fill the freezer by using the hood of my truck as a gun rest. Sounds like you guys put in way to much effort.

Lets just say he is not the best representative for certain product lines and leave it at that.

(and I don't represent anyone's product lines nor claim to)

MtnHtr

I have no problem with guys hiking far, climbing mountains, and killing big bucks. I just want Bushcraft to toss me some pictures. I've seen 1 of SU35's.

From an earlier Bushcraft thread:




MtnHtr

No chit.. I missed that.

Bushcrap thinks he nuked me by posting a hunting spot of ours.
Fact is, an Eastman article beat him to it last year and guess what? There was a bus load of hunters show up,
including Bushcrap, but then he figured out where I hunted by my successful pics.


Learn something here boys, Pricks & phoneys like Bushcrap scour the net scouting for places to hunt.
They can't find those places for themselves they rely on you to do all their leg work.

We truly did put in a lot time to find that particular local only for the prick to expose it.
It also exposed him for being as unethical as he really is.
By how he treated "our" hunting local and exposed it revealed how much time and work he truly put into it.
Think about it.

Bushcrap has this unique ability to know what you've done, think what you are thinking and put words in your mouth, he's pretty articulate at that. He's a danger to you and himself.
His attacks on others are a constant feature of his behaviour on EVERY site
His emotional maturity ended at 3 years old.

I won't be posting anymore pics of my hunts here, sorry Calvin, maybe Bush will throw up a pic of a freezer buck.

I thought I was amongst friends when I was "sharing" here.

I learned the hard way.

I'm truly sorry my post has been drug through the mud as it has.

Bob, you can lock your PB account. I remember we were talking about it in a PM a couple weeks ago and figured it out shortly thereafter.

Just a heads up.

Certain pics and even draw area's aren't benefical to be exposing on the internet. Way too many people snooping into stuff.

MtnHatr,

I guess you didn't stop to think that maybe the reason I haven't taken a deer in WA during the high buck hunt is that I've been a) hunting out of state during the high buck season until last year, and b) since we discovered there wasn't any good way to cool the meat down and keep it cool, I didn't feel like busting my ass in that country in that heat for anything less than the 215"+ muley already hanging on the wall of my home office. I've carried deer, elk and bear out of the woods with my Bora.

So [bleep] you.

You see, it ain't necessarily about the size of the horn for me...it's about being able to enjoy some richly deserved vacation time in some of the most beautiful country on God's green earth that 99% of the people out there can't even get into. Being able to enjoy that solitude and some good laughs with a good friend or two, or solo, is a major priority in my life.

Glassing some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen that is thousands of feet above and miles and miles and miles beyond anything your armchair potshot ass could, or will ever do. That is holds all sorts of critters is a bonus. Something I'll relish all the more after this discussion.


(Note that the skyline has been whited out...since I'm not a moron like Bob.)

To everyone else reading this,

Like I told Bob's hunting partner...yeah, I am the sort of guy that can hold a grudge for a while. Especially when someone knows for a fact that a lie has been told about me and isn't man enough to make an effort to make things right and apologize.

Bob says he's sorry now, but only after everyone now knows that he's a liar that greatly exagerates his backcountry exploits and pre-season scouting. And for what possible reason? Why would anyone do that if not to puff up their own ego? When recounting his 2008 hunt, he could have mentioned the true stats and kept things vague or simply said he hiked into his area. Also to add to this, why would he post some dead give-away pictures online when his hunting partner begged him not to? That at least one other person admitted on this thread that they've saved the pictures on their computer (I have ZERO) is testament to Bob's stupidity and incredibly selfish ego. 30"+ trophy mule deer hunter? Puff! Puff! Nah, in reality, he's a pretty inexperienced backpack hunter that got very lucky in 2008.

Here's a very simple question with a very simple answer ya'll might want to reflect on:

Would Bob and Chuck have even known we were headed up into Riddle Creek and Castle Creek had we not met them purely by chance on the dock and told them? No.

In turn....Would Tuff have got wind of that chance encounter had Chuck not said something to him? Again, no.

In turn...Would Tuff in turn have told an untruth about me and my hunting buddy? Again, no.

Could Bob or Chuck, knowing full well that we were headed into a completely different set of drainages that were miles, ridges and drainages away from where we knew they hunted, publicly said, "No Tuff, that's not true. You are wrong about that and you need to take it back. You have misrepresented what happened and the character of Allen and his pardner."

Yes!...(and this all could have been avoided).

But they did not.

Instead, they chose to perpetuate their lies and as a result, [bleep] with the wrong guy.

Maybe the next time they have the opportunity to set things right when they know that their lies publicly wronged someone else, they'll man up, do what they can to correct the issue and apologize.

wow, you bring a chair with you? I've never thought of doing that..

Comfy and warm. If they only made it with a foot rest that kicks out when you pull a lever and it would be perfect.

Exped Downmat 7 with chair kit, btw.

*** You are ignoring this user ***



Is the boo-hoo boy back?

Somehow I knew he'd pee his pants and cry all about it here.

I think the only way you are going to shut Bushcraft up is to go knock down another big buck this year.

Hey look! The Big Fat Liar is back!

Who could have guessed!!!

Bushcraft,

The only thing I talked with TUFF about was the story behind the original 2008 hunt.

He didn't say anything to me regarding the 2009 hunt. That was an assumption on your part and you were wrong. I did read his post though.

I hope you were not taking a stab at me for saving pictures on my computer. I save/have all kinds of pictures of washington high country mule deer. I know where many of them were killed and others I have no clue. The difference is I would never go to a spot based on their harvest pictures. I call it integrity and ethics.

I get the most enjoyment from finding my own spots on maps/google earth. Spending 4-5 weekends during the summer scouting it. Then returning to hunt that spot. If I was to kill a deer based off of pictures/stolen info, it wouldn't mean near as much.

Within the last year I have started networking and contacting some of the guys that hunt the same country as I do. I have never mentioned your name/handle but somehow it is brought up and nothing good has been said. So whether you like it or not your name is not highly regarded by others.

I do not have a dog in this fight. I just got pissed when I saw you start mentioning specific basins and areas. The noble thing to do would be to go back and delete/edit your posts. You are acting like a jr high girl with your revenge tactics. Not only that but many other people besides bob and chuck have camps in these areas (when so many people already don't care for you maybe it doesn't bother you to add to the list).

Good luck to everyone this year in the high hunt.

Eastman's publishes specifics on backcountry hunt locations?

That just doesn't seem like something they should do. I'd raise hell with 'em if I was you.

The local boys from a nearby town saw the article and knew the hunter in the article.

Yikes. Leave the state for three years and find your high hunt plastered all over the internet. First laid eyes on Devore in 1998 on a quick day-hike from Weaver point. This was before I had much of a mountain hunting clue. We wanted to eyeball the country and see what things looked like above the wilderness boundary. Vowed to be back, and came back in 2004 from the Weaver Point side and 2006 from the Tenmile side and took bucks, but nothing of any size. Never made it over the top into Castle, but always wanted to. So much for that.

FWIW, any sort of discussion of column buckling as it relates to stay design is somewhat irrelevant - since the stay is sleeved and backed by a polyethylene sheet (at least in my Dana packs), it's not subject to true column loading forces, and in truth sees more bending loads. If that's the case, the 0.19" stay is (0.19^3 / 0.128^3) = 3.3 times as stiff in bending as the 0.128" stay, assuming equal width. Beam stiffness is proportional to the width, and proportional to the cube of the depth of the section, FYI. Columns are a whole nuther matter, and much of column theory flies out the window when a column is sleeved and otherwise braced and loaded in bending. I'd wager those stays are actually bar stock of 3/16 and 1/8" thickness, but that's just a guess.

Calvin, the high buck hunt in WA is indeed neat, and there are more than five bucks to shoot. However, they can be pretty widely dispersed in their summer range. If you can find a pocket that attracts deer, you can do some good year after year. If you say anything about it to anyone, it will get compromised...

I just got off the phone with Propper International, the people who make the ILBE pack.

There is indeed a difference in packs between the Arcteryx Bora and the ILBE. The Stays are in fact stiffer on the ILBE.

It is rated to carry 120 lbs because it can!

I was also told by a higher up at Arcteryx the same information.

It would be nice to see some maturity from people who like to declare themselves as big bad mountain hunters..

Do you two think we actually care about any of this????

Where have I declared myself anything?
I'm the OP here and it was about a pack I'm using.
It degenerated because an idiot with a big ego thinks he knows about ILBE's of which he doesn't own and knows nothing about.

If you don't like the post or care then don't read it.

Ok, back to the pack. How much does the ILBE main pack weigh? Can you get differant size waist belts? Will the Bora waist belts fit? It says they make a Large waist belt for the ILBE and the Bora, but i can't find one anywhere.???

Good questions,

I asked Propper those questions and got the run around.
Ony answer I got was we have govt. contracts and only sell to the military.

This pack is interesting. In my experience most issued gear is absolutely terrible compared to equivalent civilian gear (which always makes me shake my head when people talk about buying military boots) but maybe this is an exception. At the price point it's probably worth picking one up to check out and use as a loner if it doesn't live up to all the hype.

Yes, 15 pages and no one has yet posted a weight of the pack, and if you would please, the weight of the pack without the lid, or any extraneous pouches etc.

I just emptied my pack, took off the lid and extra radio pocket.

7 lbs 8oz.

Ditto mine.

Recall military packs (same with Kifaru, et al) are made with considerably stronger material than recreational use packs.

The ILBE rides like it is lighter.....

Yeah, it does.

The Care and Use Manual on-line states that the issue waist belt can be replaced with a large or a women's belt. So, they are available--not sure where. I'm 37/38" and the standard belt fits OK. Lots of adjustment left.

Thanks, too heavy for me. I'm saving up for a McHale.

TAK - Which Mchale model are you thinking of getting? And options?

Probably this one:

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/detail/UnLTD%20%2B2.htm

Configured like one in the lower left pic (4.5#/$709) Probably go without the lid and just use it as a roll top pack, just like the ULA I hike with (ULA Catalyst). I like my Catalyst and I want a pack just like it that'll carry 100#, that doesn't weigh eight or nine pounds. A McHale looks like the only game in town. Sleeping bag zippers are stupid, I don't need or want ANY zippers on my pack, 'cause I don't use 'em and I don't want to carry 'em. McHale's "bayonet" frame stays enable your main pack to easily convert to your hunting pack.

For $709.00 it better be lighter.

plus one.

I just can't figure out why this debate rages on about a pack that originally cost over $700, marked down to under $200 delivered with minor use, built tank tough.

I have a lot (ten+?) hunting and hiking packs, MR, Kifaru, all the names, but this is ABSOLUTELY the most vlaue for the buck.

I question the competence of those who don't own one, and argue against it.

Thats it. There very well my be better packs out there but this is one of the best values. It is very well made and not a bad design either.

When I have weight on my back and a long hike ahead, "value" is the last thing going through my mind.

Packs are very subjective and you learn very quickly what is good for you.

Well said, I already have "value" packs, a gearskin made from a 10th SF Lowe, and an ALICE, and I don't want an 8# pack unless someone gave it to me, just like I don't want anymore eight or nine pound sporter rifles with crap for triggers and stocks. I also want a pack that can carry 50-65# for long hikes with a packraft, a Longhunter would be overkill for that. The McHale might not be as good of a meat-hauler as the ILBE or a Longhunter, but it would be a far better general purpose pack, IMO. Pounds equal pain, I'm looking at neck surgery in the future, and a heavy ALICE is partly responsible, along with 200 jumps and a SERE school azz-whipping.

Any updates on the performance of this pack?

As to the weight issue, the pack is built to hump 120 pounds in some of the worst places imaginable. Not a concern here.

I was taking a close look at these. Now that I see they are selling complete USMC ILBE repair kits, I just might take the plunge:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150498068246