Have not successfully ran a full mag through gun with a wide variety of ammo. Just changed recoil spring for a Galloway 24lb and changed mag springs with new Springer Xtra power springs. Thought I might have it fixed as I successfully ran a 50 rounds of American Eagle 180gr loads through both mags. I then loaded five rounds in each mag with Sig V-Crow 180gr and gun is doing same thing it was. It noses one of the last rounds in mag, I think 13th into the top of the chamber. Very frustrating as gun has been sent back to Smith one time already and they did actually nothing and sent it back. I bet I have tried to run 250 dollars worth of ammo thru this gun trying to make it work, not counting the new recoil spring and mag springs. I did contact Smith customer service 2 days ago and they are sending me a mag to try.

Anybody have any insight on these guns?

HeavyBarrel

How many magazines came with the pistol. I suppose if theres more than one they could all exhibit the same issues that could be causing the problem. to bad you cant change the extractor and extractor spring out.

I have no experience with that pistol, just suggesting logic that works on 1911s.

I can't believe that S&W sent that back not working. That's poor customer service.

describe best you can what type of failures are you having. failure to feed or failure to eject, bullet nose down or up jams, double feeds etc.

Bullet nose jams into top of chamber near bottom of mag. Pistol came with 2 mags and both do exactly the same thing. Yes Smith customer service sent it back and said it worked fine! It absolutely does not work at all. Well at least not what it is supposed to do. This is a personal defense gun and is totally not suitable for that!


HeavyBarrel

Heavy Barrel,

You are one of many who have had issues with the 10mm M&P. There is a lot of info out there posted and the various problems that owners have had. Normally it is a feeding issue in the cycle of operations. Not much in terms of definitive answers seems to have popped up, but as time passes I would think there will be some product improvement or aftermarket development that solves the issues that people are having.

I have watched a bunch of YouTube videos and read a bunch on this issue. From what I have seen it is pretty common. I thought that the new recoil Spring and mag springs might cure it and it did as far as the 180 target rounds, which I am sure are loaded on the light side, at least with 50 rounds which is a vast improvement over what it was doing with the factory springs. By seeing the improvement with these I wonder if a stiffer recoil spring might cure it? I have not seen one higher than 24lb, which is what I bought, but I bet a 26 or 28lb might improve the feeding?

HeavyBarrel

That sucks! Thanks for posting
I just asked about this pistol week or so back. There
Was couple guys who sent the pistol down the road.
Good luck getting it fixed

If this is the type of Malfunction your experiencing maybe some of the corrective issues discussed may actually work for your pistol.
That 10 mm is a very hot round and that short barrel slide is not helping things.

one of the suggestions was a weaker recoil spring with the stronger mag spring. Also a heavier mainspring to slow down the action.

I realize this is a completely different platform of pistol, but both guns work very much alike.

Good luck.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/246613-nose-up-jam/

Just saw a YouTube video of an Apex Extractor they call it the "Failure Resistant Extractor". Says it aids in feeding and extracting. Does anybody have any experience with these?

HeavyBarrel

I am not sure how an extractor can aid in feeding. From the sounds of your malfunctions, you are not having any issues with extractions. You are having feeding issues. Provided I am reading what you are trying to convey correctly.

If you have new, stronger magazine springs, I would go the opposite direction with the recoil spring, and slow your slide velocity timing down by putting a lighter weight recoil spring in the gun. Rather than run a 24 pound, try a 16 or 17# spring. Your slide and mag springs may not be timed right for the last couple rounds in the magazine and the slide may be not picking it up correctly, over running it.

I will try the factory 17lb recoil spring again, sounds logical.
The Apex extractor claims that it holds the round against the breech face guiding it into chamber? I am unsure that is why I am asking?

HeavyBarrel

HB.

Extractors do hold rounds against the breech face. That is normal. If it does it any better than the stock one I cannot tell you. I would say that unless you are specifically having extraction issues, I would attempt to solve the issue by swapping springs first. Document each combination you have tried. Then if that does not work, maybe look at a different parts like magazine followers, extractors, etc.

Thanks for advice. It is a shame that I am having to try and make this pistol work when S+W would not! I in good faith can't send it down the road knowing it has issues so I am determined to figure it out, just hope sooner than later as the cost of experimental 10mm ammo ain't cheap, especially the personal defense stuff.

HeavyBarrel

Trade it off for either a Glock 20 or Springfield XDM. 😬

I use to own a Glock 20 and a 40. The grips were just to fat for me, even the SF model. No question on their reliability as I fired everything thru them! Went yesterday to my LGS and they had no Springfield 10's in stock. I was really wanting to feel one and will be on the look out for one. Dang it would be hard to beat the ergonomics of the MP, this gun just feels great in the hand but this reliability issue is a deal breaker for sure! If I do get it running good It will take a lost of trouble free mags ran to regain confidence!

I thought about trading it off but man I hate for someone else to get a problem gun! And it feels like I am getting close to straightening it out. I hope this new mag that Smith is sending me has some type of change to follower, feed lips or spring tension that makes this gun run reliably! We will see and I will let yall know!

HeavyBarrel

A 4" model 610

I realize that you said that Glock 20 was too fat for you, but you also said that it was completely reliable. It may be worth revisiting the G20 and working on how you hold the gun. When I was a State Trooper we were issued G21s which are the same frame size. Even the smallest guys and gals learned to adapt and shoot them, and many shot them extremely well. It was a matter of adapting their grip.

There are a number of professional female shooters who have pretty small hands but shoot some fairly good size double stack guns. Julie Golob for instance. She does not have big hands, but she shoots pretty much anything you hand her.

The G20 is very well known to be a reliable 10mm and one in which other 10mms are judged against.

My brother has an M&P 10mm, had the same problems. Heavier recoil spring and heavier mag springs together cured it. Runs like a top now. The factory recoil spring is too week for any real 10mm loads. The FBI Lite (meaning only 40 S&W ballistics but loaded in 10mm case) would run with the factory spring. But none of the true 10mm ran correctly until both springs were swapped out.

Mark in GA

Mine wouldn't run anything with factory springs. It is running target ammo with the 24lb recoil and Springer Xtra power mag springs but is still fumbling with the more powerful loads. Always around the 12-14th rounds in 15 round mags.

HeavyBarrel

Just curious if you tried to tap the feed lips in just a bit. Doesn't take much and you can adjust the position the rounds feed into the chamber.

Mackay Sagebrush nails it as per usual.

And while I’ve handled a Springfield XDM Elite in 10mm, and admit it fits my large hands better than my Glock 20, if I had to bet my life on either, I’d still choose my Glock 20.

I’ll eventually buy one of the Springfield XDM 10mm’s with the optics cut, though, as I don’t own any semiautomatic that’s optic ready, and have been wanting to try one for a while now.
I will say that every Springfield handgun I own has been Uber reliable, including my HellCat in 9mm, a old model XD compact in 45 acp, and all of the 1911’s I own.
I would expect the Springfield XDM Elite in 10mm to be reliable out of the box, based on the reviews I’ve read. Not so with the S&W 10 mm.

Curious.

I have the 4" S&W. The only modification I made was an Apex trigger.

I have a total of 6 mags. Being concerned about the reliability I put a lot of rounds through the gun and each numbered mag in case there was a problem with the individual mags. I fired hot reloaded 10s, factory 10s, and even a lot of 40 S&W. I have not had a malfunction of any kind. Still, the possibility of a malfunction concerns me.

Is there a consensus on what the problem is or might be with the S&W?

Regarding the Glock 20:
1. Look at the Zins grip.
2. Even though it too fat, I shoot better with my G20 than my ‘better feeling’ Glocks that are slimmer.

Well just tried the new mag that Smith sent me to try and its a no go! Put factory spring back in and tried it also and no go! I can tell that the new mag has a stiffer spring but that is not curing the problem! Will go back to Smith ASAP for the second time!

HeavyBarrel

I just ran 50 rounds through a new 10mm S&W PC M&P 2.0 5.6" with zero issues.

I would send it back. Something ain't right. What a PIA.

Yes probably an additional 300 bucks spent trying to make gun work! Would trade it off but don't want to stick someone else with this POS!

Will let yall know what Smith says as I will call tomorrow. I am sure they will want me to send it in but I have gone that route once already. We will see!

HeavyBarrel

smith and Wesson has given me my money back before. Tell them you want a new pistol or your money back.

Is the ejector broke? Not the extractor, but the ejector.

When the gun is working, does the brass land on your head or right next to you?

The rounds in the magazine will push each other out until the last one or two and then the empty case will interfere with feeding.

Just a thought.

One other weird possibility.

The 10mm is built on the 45acp frame. But an ejector positioned for a 45acp casehead is going to barely hit a 10mm casehead. The pistol might have a 45acp ejector.

These ejector issues can be checked without firing the gun. Simply slide an empty casing under the extractor (usually will feed from mag) and then pull the slide sharply to rear - should launch the empty. If the casing dribbles out, the ejector has an issue.

Btt because I'm interested in this issue.

Ejection, when it does, is positive and 3 to 4 feet. As I mentioned before, the issue starts at around round 12 to 13 every time.
Headed back to Smith as soon as I get my pre-paid label from them. I am going to ask for a different gun as I doubt that I could ever have confidence enough in this particular gun to ever carry.

HeavyBarrel

HB - Glad you are getting somewhere with S&W.

Can't carry if you don't have 100% confidence in the pistol and that would be very difficult after all you have been through with it. I hope it was a manufacturing fluke and not something more systemic with that particular model.

I'm off to run another 50 through my new S&W 10.

Keep us posted...

That is for sure. I stated before that mine is functioning fine but every post I read like HeaveyBarrel's raises doubt.

An M&P should launch the brass farther than "3 to 4 feet". Probably twice that minimum.

And it may very well be as it is throwing brass on top of my pole barn where i shoot. Much further than any other semi auto I have shot there. Never really measured distance 3-4 feet is just a guess but seems pretty substantial.

HeavyBarrel

Get a rock island double stack 10mm 1911

Do M&P 45acp mags fit into an M&P10mm? If so, feed lip length would be too short and the lip gap would be a little too wide.

I honestly feel like it is a feed lip issue! You would think if it is that Smith would have figured that out long ago and saved them self this bad rap with these pistols that are questionable at best!

I re-sent gun back to Smith today and will keep yall informed on outcome.

HeavyBarrel

Glad you got it off the S&W.

Seems some folks are having problem with hot'ish ammo like Underwood so I picked up 50 rounds of their 200gr Hard Cast to see if the 5.6" has any feeding problems. But so far after 150 rounds I haven't had a single issue.

Keep us posted...

Update - I ran 50 rounds of Underwood 200gr hard cast through my PC 5.6" today. Not a single issue. I do like the Underwood ammo - clean and accurate. Waiting on a Garmin chrono to record velocities. The ported barrel on the 5.6 making shooting the 10 a breeze even with the a hotter load. This is quickly becoming my favorite handgun.

Good to know STRSWilson. That’s the model I would prefer. Glad it’s working well.

Well just got my gun back. Repair says same as last trip "Polished chamber and passed range test". I told them that is not what I want to hear the second time! I have not fired it yet but I fail to see how ding the same thing they did last time will be any different! I will forever be staying away from S+W firearms! It is a major PITA to ship gun back and another to get it home when you work 40 plus a week and have to be home to sign.

HeavyBarrel

Have you shot it yet?
Don't you think you should shoot it before posting here?

Did you send your magazines with pistol?

I would at least shoot the thing again to see if maybe it works now before I swore off S&W firearms.

Can you sell it with mag blocks installed to someone where there is 10 round magazine limit?

A firearm you can't trust isn't worth 2 cents.

Move on.

I will shoot it and post the results. Maybe jumping to conclusion but I already did exactly what they said they did and they did and said exactly the same thing first time I sent it.

HeavyBarrel

It will take a lot of firing and 100% function before I could ever trust this gun again! This gun should never have left the factory the first time and definitely shouldn't have left in the condition from the warranty department.

Unsure if yall have read all the issues and things I have tried, money I have sent, and to get a repair form back from S+W warranty dept saying they polished the chamber and passed their range text does not leave me feeling like they have addressed anything.

I will have time to fire it Friday and will post results.

HeavyBarrel

Not only were all 3 mags sent with pistol, I had previously tried the Springer plus power mag springs that did not help.

HeavyBarrel

There is no way to eliminate ocassional "lemons" in large scale production process. They probably only testfire few guns out of large batch. Their warranty work range test is probably couple of rounds. Your only mistake was spending hundreds to make this clunker work. Time to cut losses.

Man I hope it works this time! The gun is a bit more svelte that the G29.

Sorry guys I traded it off. Was not going to spend the xtra dollars on ammo to get to where I could trust gun with my life. Traded it to local gun store with full disclosure. I am sure with their buying power that if there is an issue they can get it resolved.

HeavyBarrel

Congratulations, I am sorry you spent so much time and money on this clunker.

Yes I know. I traded it for a Glock 22.

If anyone would like to try the Springer brand mag springs and the 24lb recoil spring I would gladly send them their way for 50 bucks total. Only been installed for about 30 minutes.

HeavyBarrel

Congratulations. That is much better choice practice ammo is about $2> 9x19. Best defensive ammo Winchester Ranger 180 bonded JHP can be found for about $30/50. You can shoot 9x19 out of G22 by simply dropping in aftermarket barrel.

I already had another Gen2 Glock 22 that lives in my truck. Also a G27 so this new gun will live beside my bed or on top of fridge. I like the 40's and I like the fact that in a pinch my G22 mags work in my 27.

I really liked the ergo's of the Smith but damn it was a mess and I really lost faith in it as a gun that I could defend my family with!

HeavyBarrel

I'm guessing from your description of the failure that had you trimmed the mag lip back a bit to get an earlier full release of the round that it would have worked.

Common fix on some 1911 mags.

Guess we'll never know now.

I have no use for 10mm's...............to many problems reported with different guns. If I can't get it done with a 45 or a 40 S&W, it just won't get done & I'll move up to 44 or 41 mag.

MM

Sorry it didn't work out.

I feel your pain. I've had to get rid of few problem firearms too in the past.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I handled that pistol and was impressed with the ergonomics of the smith for my tastes anyway, so thank you for sharing.

I passed on a performance center a few weeks ago and went with the Springfield XDM OSP. I’ve put around 200 rounds through it without a problem.

I went in with plans to buy the 2.0 but ended up not liking the harsh course stippling on the grip. The grip frame was “imbalanced?” for my grip being too long for the width.

I wear M/L to L gloves but felt that the grip depth was for a larger hand. Simply personal preference issues but those things kept me from going S&W.

I run a Wollf Gun Spring's 28# recoil spring in my 45 Super. It is for a 10mm.

I had to do the exact same as you earlier this year. That M&P 2.0 10mm 4.6 looked great laying in its gun case, but wasn't worth it on the range. I had magazines fall out from the bullets pushing the exposed mag release spring aside while cartridges were being fed through. Thumb wasn't even close to the release button. Failure to feed correctly, aplenty. Trip back to S&W, they sent it back and I honestly thought they fixed it, because it was shooting great! But in no time, it went right back to it old shenanigans.

I traded it in locally for a Glock 20sf and have had zero problems

Maybe I'm just lucky but my PC M&P 2.0 5.6 continues to perform flawlessly. I'm north of 600 rounds without a single issue. Been running Underwood 200gr hard cast so I would believe IF I was going to have an issue, it would be by now.

Will report if my luck changes.

Mine has also been flawless. I wish someone could identify the issues between flawed and flawless guns.

Maybe quality control? OTOH you have to wonder because you would think the tolerance and specifications on all the assembled parts would be the same. The price and package of the 4 inch gun make it something of merit, but hit or miss performance is likely to sink its sales. Could it be their move and associated issues setting up a new line is impacting their quality again how it does so is hard to understand. Then it’s a head scratcher to think that smith and Wesson cannot duplicate G29 performance. All I have to go on is a sample of two G20’s I own and have owned digest my hand loads with maximum charges of accurate #9 and 200 grain bullets without flaw and anything else I put into the magazine.