I went on record a while back denouncing detachable mags on hunting rifles. I stand by that. It's not a gun control thing. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be allowed to own one. I'm just saying it is impractical to have one in a rifle that is supposed to be dropping game in 1 shot. I generally don't load any more than 3 rounds when I'm hunting, just to cut down on the hassle. I figure if I've got a need to blow more than 3 rounds at an animal, something is seriously wrong, and I need to take a time out and rethink my strategy. This is all said with a big YMMV proviso.

Well, in what some of y'all would call the height of hypocrisy, the next rifle I went out and bought had a detachable mag. Why? Well, for one thing, I liked everything else about the rifle. For another, it would seem that detachable magazines are the way the mfgs are rolling these days. I bought this TC Compass on a bit of a shoestring. I had two of my main-battery deer rifles go toes up in the space of a month. One is permanently toast, the other is still out at the gunsmith and probably won't be back in time for season. I saw the TC Compass for under $325 and went with it. There was a lot of comprimises I made with this rifle. One was that it came with a black plastic stock. I despise them, but I have to say they are practical. So far, I like the rifle. I even like the design of the mag. It has a more solid feel to it than my Ruger American. I like the 3 position safety. However, the reason for the 3 position safety is somewhat negated by having a detachable mag.

One thing I try to do with every rifle I buy is buy at least one extra magazine if it is detachable. This goes all the way back to the beginning of my centerfire experience. I bought a used Remington 742, and had all sorts of trouble with the mag. Lo and behold, it was the magazine that was causing the trouble. I bought a new one, and when it worked, I bought another. My reasons for keeping this magazine thing going are:

1) If I lose the mag 20 years down the road, will I be able to find another?
2) If I can find it, will I be able to afford it? I got the second mag the same day as a rifle for $25 on Ebay. That's about 60% of list. I've gone looking for spare mags for a Savage 340 and been astonished at the prices.
3) I might as well take advantage of why a detachable mag is there to begin with: to make reloading simple.

A detachable mag makes loading in the dark simple. It makes unloading in the dark simple. It makes reloading in the middle of a hunt simple. I've only had to go to the second mag once, and this was in 2005. A deer took 3 rounds of 35 Whelen and just stood there. It's a long story; suffice it to say it's easier to deal with a mag than dealing with loose rounds under pressure. I also do a lot of hunting out of treestands, and a detachable mag does take some of the risk out of losing rounds and having them fall 20 feet to the ground. A second mag reduces the chance that I'm going to have to climb down the ladder. Listen to me; I'm talking myself into detachable mags all on my own.

So now comes the reason for writing this: First off, I'd like to hear about your thoughts on having a second mag at the ready. Second, how do you carry the second mag? I normally keep my ammo, in whatever form in a possibles bag and move extra rounds to my right bottom coat or vest pocket when I load up, so I have ready access.

I think you answered your own question Shaman,

My conclusions are the same as yours.

Couple additional things both having to do with noise afield:

The noise generated by loading an adl style magazine in the stand involves a lot more click-clacking than with a magazine (especially a plastic one like a Ruger or a magpul)

An advantage to a spare loaded magazine is the rounds don't clink loosely in your jacket pocket at just the wrong time.

Hope this helps

I've only recently switched a couple of my rifles over to AICS detachable mags so I've only got a couple of years with some of them. In most cases I still prefer blind mag on lightweight rifles but do appreciate the AICS mags.

First: I've never had to go to a second mag. The mags I use in the rifle are 3 round mags. Would certainly be a quick to load another if needed but in most of the areas I hunt it's tough to get a second (clear) shot off.

Second: I carry it in the top of my pack. If in a stand the pack is hung near me. If on the ground and it's on my back it would take me a while to get to it. Again, it would be very rare for me to need more than the 3 so I don't plan for a quick reload. It would be fast and easy to carry the second 3 round mag in one of my right front pockets......or just use a 5 or 10 round mag in the rifle.

I only own one two centerfire rifles with detachable mags. An AR-15 and a Rem. 760. I really dislike detachable mags in bolt action rifles. I simply won't buy such a rifle. It seems to me that gun companies are going with detachable mags to save $$. I've never had a situation in over 50 years of hunting where I needed more shots than the four or five rounds that my rifles held.

As for carrying extra founds, when hunting deer with my 760 I just put an extra loaded mag in my coat pocket. When using my bolt action rifles I carry extra rounds in a cartridge holder on my belt and keep one extra round in each of the two front pockets on my coat. I guess I should ad that I've shot everything from Rabbits to Elephants with my bolt guns and never ran the gun dry.

About 25 years ago, when Remington first started making DM versions of the 700, I was interested in them. Then, one day when I was at my gun club, there was an older gentleman there teaching a sniper course for local LE. I asked him about detachable mags and he emphatically told me they weren't needed on a precision rifle. Since then, I've bought a few rifles with detachable mags, but because I liked the gun (Tikka) and not because of the mag. BTW, the older gentleman's name was Carlos Hathcock.

Detachable mags are great for predator hunting. Driving from stand to stand it simplifies loading and unloading.

An added thought to my previous post, I carry extra rounds for safety, NOT because I expect to use them on game, but to fire warning/signal shots in case I get lost in the woods or fall from my tree stand, etc. Hence the extra magazine.

And Magpul makes AICS pattern mags that are plastic - a bit less noise/rattle than the metal AICS ones.

I don't care for DM's on a hunting rifle. That said, one of my favorite rifles, my Sako 85, has one. It doesn't actually seem like a DM, you can leave it in the rifle and load through the top or take it out, as you wish. It's got a tricky little retention system so it's not going to fall out accidentally. I usually drop it out to unload it, but put it right back in the rifle. (I've had a couple of instances of having to replace lost DM's and their cost is way out of proportion to what it should be, IMHO.)

I like a DM on a hunting rifle, as I tend to lean towards a picatinny rail. Makes loading a little easier.

I never cared for detachable mags on a serious hunting rifle. I only hunt Alaska and use either my my 30-06 or .338 and both are CRF Mod. 70's. The 30-06 holds 5 down and the custom .338 Winny holds 4 down. Nope, I have never needed all of those rounds for a hunt. But, being able to feed the rifle a round at a time and having those extra rounds in the magazine is a good thing, the magazine is the best place I know of to store extra rounds. Although I have never experienced it there are many stories of hunters in Alaska needing more then three shots on big bears.

I bought a Tikka Super Lite in 6.5 Creed and have the factory 3 round mag and picked up two 5 round mags for it. So far so good, but the mags appear fragile to me. We take all 3 magazines when a grandkid has the Tikka 6.5 and they know to change a magazine rather then trying to single feed the Tikka. I wish they were like a Magpul mag my AR takes, but only 5 rounds. My son in law has never found the detachable mag that he lost over 20 years ago that goes in his Savage 30-06.

Maybe in time they will be improved on. One thing I don't like is I have noticed a couple of friends that pull the mag and don't do a proper press check to verify the rifle is clear of all ammo. They assume it is since the magazine is removed. A gentle reminder that all press checks are done from a closed breach is needed when that happens.

I posted my honest evaluation and usage of D Ms and THEN

DELETED every line when I saw the source. No Wonder ?


Jerry

I don't like detachable magazines, except semi-auto pistols. There's not much choice with most slide actions and semi-auto rifles. I had a 338 700 with a detachable magazine and couldn't wait to get rid of it.

My first rifle was a single shot, my cousins would come over with their semi-autos and they would empty the magazines and get very little game.

I can think of only a couple of times in close to 60 years of hunting that I need more than one shot. The two times I remember were at pronghorns. I suppose there were other times, but I do not recall them.

Carrying an extra mag, may I suggest trying a little practice instead.

I have no opinion about detchable magazines except the ones that stick down below are really a stupid idea. You can't carry the rifle at the balance point one handed. That's why the original M16/AR15 had the carry handle.

would you rather have them stick up? or out to the side?....

I understand that gun makers like detachable magazines on bolt-action rifles because they permit a stiffer action that’s more accurate and easier/cheaper to manufacture. My inner range shooter likes cheap, accurate rifles, but my inner infantryman dislikes small, expensive things that can get lost. If that happens, then my cheap, accurate rifle becomes an awkward single-shot with a big hole in the bottom and horrible resale value. Replacement mags also seem get more expensive every day, especially with magazines that only come from one manufacturer.

Resale/cost issues will go away as more manufacturers design around the AICS-pattern magazine but losing one still leaves you in the lurch. I’m not just talking about losing one on a hunt, but on the range, at home, or having someone else borrow/steal/lose it for you. A lost mag is a lost mag and you’re in a bind without it.

I understand that they’re useful in tree stands or if you have to load/unload several times a day, but I don’t find myself in those situations.


Okie John

Well.... I have NOT had a problem and I LIKE them.

? ? for you.....

Where does the bolt belong for a rifle ? ...........IN the gun

Where does the D M belong for a rifle? ............IN the gun

I SEE NO reason to lose one. ** GIVEN - some designs are NOT a positive lock up *** I won't have one like that.

? Per Noise ? WHY are you messing with a mag in a stand or still hunting ? .......


Jerry

That's an easy one. It's not a good idea to bring a firearm into a stand loaded. The safest way is to have it fully unloaded for the trip up and back down, preferably on a rope of its own.

The other reason is legality. Given most state hunting laws, it is prohibited to be loaded up outside of legal hunting hours. If you're loaded, you're hunting. I've not seen a C/O actually cite a hunter for this, but it's conceivable he could. I've seen some pretty [bleep] citations over 40 years. One fellow got nailed for hunting too close to a public road, because he was walking out with his gun slung but still loaded. The "public road" was a dirt road. It was on private property, but the state had an easement in anticipation of maybe someday building a road. Another took his hunter orange off while he was field dressing his buck.

I load in the first minute of legal hunting and unload in the last.


In regards to noise: One of the noisiest deer guns I ever owned was my Rem 742. Metal mag clacking about and a loud CHING! when you released the bolt. It was only slightly better than my Rem 1100. Everyone knew for a half-mile around when that thing went into battery.

Excepting three .22 rifles with tube magazines, I have a BUNCH of .22s with detachable magazines, and I prefer them, especially with the rimfire loads. I also have four CZ 527s with detachable magazines, and I like them for the handiness when moving from one place to another in a vehicle.

It's a real PITA to empty a tube magazine (like my Marlin 336) when moving from one area to another in a vehicle, noisy, awkward, just a PITA, period.

For deer hunting, I really like my old M70 best, with it's hinged floorplate, it's handy and a lot quieter than the abominable tube magazines, or ADL-types. It also carries better.

I have toted dm rifles through several countries since 1966 and have never had a mag fall out'

The M-16 had a sight housing not a carry handle, carrying that way resulted in many pushups and long runs.



mike r

That's an easy one.

1. It's not a good idea to bring a firearm into a stand loaded. The safest way is to have it fully unloaded for the trip up and back down, preferably on a rope of its own.

The other reason is legality.
2. Given most state hunting laws, it is prohibited to be loaded up outside of legal hunting hours. If you're loaded, you're hunting. I've not seen a C/O actually cite a hunter for this, but it's conceivable he could. I've seen some pretty [bleep] citations over 40 years. One fellow got nailed for hunting too close to a public road, because he was walking out with his gun slung but still loaded. The "public road" was a dirt road. It was on private property, but the state had an easement in anticipation of maybe someday building a road. Another took his hunter orange off while he was field dressing his buck.

3. I load in the first minute of legal hunting and unload in the last.


4. In regards to noise: One of the noisiest deer guns I ever owned was my Rem 742. Metal mag clacking about and a loud CHING! when you released the bolt. It was only slightly better than my Rem 1100. Everyone knew for a half-mile around when that thing went into battery.


XXXXXXXXXX--------XXXXXXXXX

'shaman' I have legitimate answers for your 'exceptions', honestly.

W/O writing a book. In order

1. W/O a round in the CHAMBER.... there is NO danger of Accidental Discharge OR Shooting 'something', climbing up/down or into a stand. D Ms can be loaded IN the rifle -- IN the woods -- OFF right of ways.

2. Once IN THE WOODS you are hunting.

3. Remove round from CHAMBER.

4. I've heard metal noise from 742s, 7400s while loading a round into the chamber.
>>>>> chamber loading noise is WHY I don't own semi auto C Fs. the semi's NEED to be chambered under pressure.

*** the PUMPS can be cocked and THEN load the chamber w/o slamming the action. I have had pumps for years.


I'm not going to 'discuss' any further.

Good Day

Jerry

I realize you've said you don't want to discuss this further, but just to clarify: At least the states I hunt in, you are allowed to be in the woods before and after legal hunting hours. However, you cannot be pursuing game. It's okay to walk to and from your stand after hours. It is okay to pursue wounded game in the dark. However, having a loaded weapon on your way to the stand is not kosher.

If you're hunting from the moment you leave the car, then you're only allowed to do that during legal hunting hours. I've been known to set out an hour or more before first light to be in my stand. It's legal. I just can't be loaded up.


Yes. I agree. However, I'm usually traveling in the dark. There is very little reason for me to remain loaded going in and out of the stand.

Not a gunwriter, but I like detachable mags. Far easier to load and unload the rifle which is important here as we are not supposed to carry a loaded rifle in the vehicle.

I never have a round chambered when getting into the stand anyway.

YMMV

Jerry is off whatever medication he takes for his ill humours. Try not to upset him.

Okay Guys.

I don't bother Mr. S R yet he's like a

LOST PUPPY following me around chewing on my britches legs. I've tried being nice and leaving him alone.
That 'obviously' isn't working.

So MUTT run along and tug on someone else's britches legs.... "FIDO"

I'll be forced to call Animal Control, aka the Dog Catcher and let him decide what to do.

So long Fido.

jwall AND I said THAT !

Shhh. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Anyone have any Kleinguenther K-15 magazines??

If I had my druthers all my bg bolt rifles would be blind box mags. But I have some hinged floor plates and some dms. Anymore the cheap rifles all have dms.

Guys -- I'm not a LOST PUPPY troll. I don't follow any of you around criticizing you.

S R, ever read this ?
"Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution." - anon
Proverbs 22:10: Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.

Fido... you are a typical Church Member, not practicing what you preach !
Fido... I don't bother you... I don't feed trolls.

Next time (if there is) I won't be so kind.

jwall, I said that.

Ha ha. Shhhh.

I use DBM systems on all of my hunting rifles....

Never had one fall out, never had a miss feed.

imagine that.......grin

Always interesting to me how people slam on things they've never tried.......amazing actually.

bucktail -

I understand that WE ALL don't like the same thing...we all don't have to like the same things.

I'm NOT slamming you or criticizing you.
It's "funny", 'interesting' how things change.

I'm old enuff to remember
Rem ADL wood stocks -- now ADL are composite < and Blind Mag.

Win 670 wood stocks -- Blind Mag, et.al. brand/models

You said, " Anymore the cheap rifles all have dms".

It USED to be that 'Cheap Rifles' or cheaper, had Blind Mags and more expensive rifles had hinged floorplates.

I have divested myself of all my Blind Mag rifles, except ONE. My 70 Black Shadow 300 WM.

Why?
Blind Mags don't allow you access to the Mag well without removing the STOCK.
Sometimes we need to clean the mag well. Sometimes we need to change the mag spring or change/modify the
follower. et.al.

I personally DON'T trust the rifle to maintain ZERO after removing and replacing the stock. I personally RE check zero
everytime after removing the stock.

With D M you don't have those problems.

These are MY reasons.... NO ONE else has to agree with me.
We all have our preferences.


Jerry

I've only switched 3 rifles over to DBM, all AICS. The thing I like most is the straight, smooth feed.

I never have more than two rounds total in my bolt gun while hunting. If I am hunting with my single shots I have an elastic keeper on the gun for the one extra round.

This is true in Texas as well as requiring a minimum distance from roads, perimeters, and homes when hunting on public land.

Most of those types of rules (gun being loaded = hunting) are meant to eliminate legal ambiguity or burden of proof for the warden. It makes it easier for them to cite. One would like to think they exercise some common sense discretion in a case like you mentioned with the road on private land, but I get the sense there isn't much of that with wardens.

I haven't had any issues with the detachable mags in my Win M88 and BLR.

Shaman... I don't know HOW I missed this in your OP ? ?

I have xtra mags for my Model Sixes, and 1 for my T3 Lite 270. Don't have 1 for the T3X 7 Mag.

I 'never' carry an xtra mag, ever.

I bought them to HAVE in case of some (?) problem ? whatever it might be, I'd have one and not have to FIND one.

I did not and am not getting one for the 7 Mag.

In all my years of shooting and hunting 760s etc. 1960 something ? --> now and T3 s since 2003, I have had NO need to carry them or
EVEN have them. It's comforting to know that I HAVE them.

However as someone else said, I use the elastic butt sleeve ammo holders for xtra ammo.
I have ONLY shot 3 Xs at 1 deer. NOW I have missed of course but never shot 3 Xs but once.

Jerry

Have both don't need anyone to tell about either. 788 remington had a simple one right down to where it was misplaced or plain lost. Best one I ever saw belonged to some old cowboy ,it had seen many miles and rds of use. He had pop riveted to the bottom of the mag a piece of brass toilet tank chain and used a wood screw to attach the other end to the stock. Made me laugh, still makes me laugh everytime I see one. Don't know what other kind of mag you could design or fit to an AR but the ones in use now are fine. Scenarshooter thinks they are fine on a sporting rifle and I don't know a more discerning rifleman than Pat. If a guy don't want one well don't buy one. Magnum_ Bob

That's better.

I think my jitters regarding DM's comes from 40 years of dealing with a Rem 742 and a Rem 7600. I don't think I'm hard on mags, but one year I started out with 5 working mags and ended up with one functional at season's end and it was acting wonky. That winter, I studied up on how to tweak them, did some adjustments and got 4 working again. Shortly after that, I started seriously thinking about retiring the 7600.

Since then I've shied away from DM's for deer hunting until now. I'm sure this is a matter of YMMV.

At one point, I experimented with elastic butt sleeves. Twice I came back with fewer rounds in the sleeve than when I left. One of the guys in our camp has a sleeve and he has lost a couple rounds over the years. He sees no reason to change. Me? It made me rethink things. What I've been doing since 2002 or so is buying MTM ammo wallets and carrying them in my right bottom jacket or vest pocket. They carry 9 rounds-- more than enough for a whole season. I bought them for my sons as well. Whatever they were up to prior was almost guaranteeing the loss of a couple of rounds a year. Teenagers can see this as no big deal, but they're not the ones doing the reloading. I even used colored electrical tape and color-coded all the wallets, so nobody would walk off with the other guy's wallet.

Do you think I give a Rat's BUTT ? Well I don't FIDO.

Go tell your mama she misses you.

jwall

My first deer rifle as a Winchester M/88, its magazine was well designed, easy to use I liked it. Worked on Browning BLR's and have always thought their detachable magazine to be a poorly designed POS.

I don't know but

I've been using the elastic ammo holders since 2016 err 2013, and so far I haven't lost 1 round.
I have them on M70, 6.5X55



and T3 270



and T3X 7 RM



3rd Deer < 2 empties in slots = 2 deer before.

I plan IF I can remember to get 2 more. I have FMD (fading memory disorder)


Jerry

Pat,

As I recall you killed that bear with a cartridge most Campfire experts (especially those who've never seen a grizzly) would consider totally inadequate for such a task!

[quote=hanco]Anyone have any Kleinguenther K-15 magazines??


I do - but I use them in my Kleinguenther.......

What's the build sheet on that rifle?


Okie John

That bear must have been attracted to the blue tape.

See? I learn these things from reading 24hourcampfire.com

Really? I am surprised. That is not true of my home state of Oregon .. which leans left most of the time. Our state F&G people tried to restrict what we could carry / not carry but State Legislature put them in their place: F&G have some say about what you can hunt with but not about what you can or can't carry. It had been forbidden for archery or muzzleloader hunters to carry a handgun but that was reversed in the 90s when we became a shall-issue state. I can legally carry any gun I own in the car, loaded. Chamber hot for that matter though I choose not to. I'm very surprised that more right-leaning states are so restrictive.

Tom

WTF do elastic ammo holders have to do with detachable magazines ?

We can always tell when your meds are wearing off. Just try to remain focused on the thread.

Conceivably, if a C/0 or warden or F&G guy were to drop by your blind and find you loaded up a half hour before legal hunting time, he could possibly cite you. Now, this is mostly theoretical. As I said, I haven't seen anyone cited for this alone. However, if the CO hears shots going off before legal hunting coming from your place on a regular basis, and he decides to slip in for a check. . . that could be how you end up getting nailed. It used to be the woods were ablaze 15-30 minutes before legal hunting around our place when we first moved in. Now? I may hear one or two early shots. My guess there were a few visits when the new CO took over about 15 years ago. This was also about the time the semi-auto muzzleloaders stopped being heard. The other thing that will get you nailed for sure is if he finds you jacklighting. You can say the gazillion power spotlight was just so you can light your way to your blind, but if you've got a loaded rifle . . . that's going to be a citation.

Also, I'll tell you that the Hunter Ed that I went through twice with two sons discouraged walking around with a nocked arrow or a loaded gun. The old guy that used to teach it said in essence "You can stop thinking you're going to shoot a deer on the way to your blind. It ain't gonna happen. It's much safer to stay unloaded until you get where you're going." I was still bowhunting at the time, and it dawned on me that I had not seen a deer when I'd been skulking to my stand in 25 years and I stopped. I still walk in at midday with my rifle loaded, but again, I ain't seen anything on the way in years.

JWALL mentioned it. I just followed up on it-- as if these conversations don't drift.

However, in the general scheme of things, it's all about how we carry our ammo.

You are the DUMBEST mutt I've encountered here on the 'fire', FIDO.
As I said, I don't give a Rat's BUTT what you think....I always skip your yapping.

I'm not inclined to pay attention to Lost Puppies and you're SO FAR AWAY from home.
Did you not notice you crossed the National Line into the United States of America ?

Your owners surely don't know you've run away from 'mother' Canada!

As a Citizen of America.... I don't CARE what someone from the French Annex thinks or says.
Do you remember WHY the French have 2 reverses on their tanks?
So they can BACK UP no matter where the enemy approaches!!
Aren't you proud ?


I'll bet you lost your collar with Nameplate showing your owners address FIDO.
I'd be glad to notify them as to your whereabouts, so they can put you back in the pen.

Now FIDO run along and hopefully you'll find your way home. FIDO

I made a promise that I'd DO THIS and I kept my word!


jwall... I SAID THAT.

Thanks shaman. Yes, gunwiz, we were discussing D Ms and I said I don't carry an Xtra DM but use the elastic ammo holders INSTEAD of a box (no matter what kind).

Yes it's a tangent but is related to using DMs and/or carrying an xtra one while hunting.

No offense intended.

Jerry

We always know when your meds wear off. Nap time, Jerry.

I caught you peaking again.

why don't you a s s holes put it to rest?

shaman,

This statement of yours "The other reason is legality. Given most state hunting laws, it is prohibited to be loaded up outside of legal hunting hours" is not true. Apparently you haven't hunted many places (or researched various states' hunting regs). There are quite a few states where they don't care if you are "loaded up" during hunting hours. In my home state of Montana, for instance, it's legal to have a round in the chamber no matter the hour, or whether the rifle/shotgun is inside or outside a vehicle--and there are other states with FAR more flexible regs than in your limited knowledge.

I know this from hunting big game in over half the United States.
.

Well sir, I would not blame you if
you had a troll !!

Jerry

Yes, I'm pretty much of a shut-in. Ohio, KY, PA, MI and IN mostly, and mostly deer and turkey. These are high-density states and the generally don't want hunters shooting each other in the dark.

I just checked Montana's regs:



That differs from some states . I suppose it also makes it handy when you have bears and such bumping about in the dark.

Ask the Gunwriters is a place on the Campfire where members get a chance to talk with gunwriters, get the benefit of their experience and exchange ideas and knowledge. It's right at the top of the 24 hr campfire forums I visit and value highly. 30 years ago no one had this access to these people except a select few of their immediate friends on a 2 way basis short of writing letters and hoping you would get a reply. I don't think I am alone in my value of what I can learn here. It's allright to have your own ideas but if you think they are the only good ones , be prepared to defend them with facts and valid experience for everyone has the right to their own opinion. I personally would hate to see this forum come to an end because people have alienated the gunwriters here with rude behavior even though they can do better.
J WALL your out of line ,way out. You would not tolerate anyone talking to you like you have talked to Steve R so think about it and try to treat people with the respect they deserve or take your crap over to the campfire where it probably don't belong either. Magnum_Bob

Well said, could not agree more.

It seems to me that Mr. Redgwell gives as good as he gets. And he's not the individual that I have on Ignore.

Mr. Bob I agree with your first 3 paragraphs complettly. I have said more than once that I 'appreciate' the opportunity to have exchanges with Gun Writers and people in the business. They have far wider experiences than I and many here.

I also respect YOUR right and that of all of us to have differing opinions, sometimes because of our diff experiences.
You have the right to your opinion and I RESPECT that.

OTOH I have the same right. None of us deserve to be 'trolled'. Unfortunately trolling does occur here on the 'Fire'.

I DO NOT nor HAVE NOT trolled anyone. I don't follow anyone to criticise or mock them.

I will not lay down or bend over or allow ANYONE -- anyone -- to trample and criticise me WITHOUT due cause.
I reserve the RIGHT to defend myself or fight back if needed.

This is just the last occasion where S R has entered a discussion NOT involving himself and MOCKED me and
I'M TIRED of it.
I never open his threads. I never follow his posts and especially check to see if I have occasion to criticize or mock him.
W/O using the ignore feature, I simply SKIP his posts. He refuses to return that privilege.

IF he will leave me ALONE..... I promise I will CONTINUE to leave him alone.

That is the best I can do and all I promise to do regarding trolls.

I hope you and others can understand and if not that is your right too.

I will NOT apologize for defending myself. I don't expect others to apologize for the same thing. I do not go looking for
adversaries.

Jerry

Bullchit. You can just STFU if he's involved. It's not that hard....Why bring you guys' petty bullcrap down on the rest of us?

I don't really like DM in bolt rifles either, but nowadays that's about all you can get.
My dumb question is. Ok, I got this DM that can hold 4/5 rounds in it, my state says only straight-walled cartridges and only one round in the chamber and two in the DM. Can't just put two rounds in the DM and say it's ok. Now how in the world do I get this DM to only be able to hold two rounds? I don't think snap caps will be legal in the DM. Can't put a dowel in the DM like in a shotgun.

Not sure what model bolt gun your talking about but I'd look at a vertical bolt thru the floor plate/mag bottom that stops down ward travel of the mag follower. Mb

I haven’t had that problem with my rifles with APA DBM and AICS mags. This rifle’s balance point is in front of the mag. Easy to carry one handed.

Well, I’ll catch hell but anyway It won’t be the first time and better yet I’m still alive. Hunting dangerous game with conventional magazine rifles and detachable magazine rifles I put a piece of duct tape over both. Just gives me piece of mind. Chit Happens. Usually at the wrong time.

What color tape would work best?
I got some hellacious vicious squirrels stealing my pistachios.
Trying to work up the nerve to confront 'em.

Pink, you only use blue in montana or hunting g bears cause any where else that would be overkill. Yeah that's how it is

[quote=Kimber7man]

I haven’t had that problem with my rifles with APA DBM and AICS mags. This rifle’s balance point is in front of the mag. Easy to carry one handed.



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I see rifles with DMs that extend quite a bit and I don't know where their balance point is so.....

I don't have any problems with mine like K 7man said.
The Rem 760, 7600, & Sixes DMs are ergonomically designed w/o sharp corners and don't extend way down so no problem



The Tikka T 3s DMs I have also are designed for easy carry.




The DM design of the Rem 788 was 1 of my objections to that rifle. The bottom of the mag was not only 'square'
but also extended with the release on 1 end of the mag (don't remember which end) which made it POSSIBLE for
'something' to catch or push it in and release it UNintended.
I don't know if I ever took a pic of mine in the 70s and it's the only 1 I have had.

Jerry

I was never a fan of detachable mags in a big game (deer) rifle until I used one. To me it's a convenient way to carry a few extra rounds in the pocket of my vest. It's also quieter as I don't have loose ammo rattling around in my pockets. Quick to load up as soon as I get off the ATV or unload before getting on. I've decided it's a "what's not to like" kinda thing. I have DBM's on most of my deer rifles now and I prefer the flush-fitting one in my Browning X-Bolt over the Tikka mags. My biggest problem with them, as a child of the 70's, is to just remember to bring the darn things...

I always liked the steyr detachable mags, the ones that had the two positions, first position would hold it in place but you couldn't feed a round from it, the 2nd was when you were ready. Nice idea/setup.

I accept them on an AR style rifle but never on a bolt action hunting rifle.

Are we still talking DBM’s? Avoided them at all costs, until I had my first Tikka. Now I like them, easy peasy.


Now back to the fight.

I’m not a fan. I like to put my thumb over the bolt and under the scope with my fingers around the belly of the stock just ahead of the trigger guard. That doesn’t work with picatinny rails and detachable magazines. Plus, I know I would invariably leave a mag at home at some point.

Those are just preferences and I can see some advantages to detachable magazines. Though, I do suspect that there are going to be lots and lots of single shot rifles in the future as cheap plastic mags wear out, break down, and get lost for all these budget rifles being made nowadays by every manufacturer under the sun.

Just like Glocks.

16

you are an 'enabler', aren't ya ?

I don't KNEED no help !


Jerry

Easy peasy to cut a picatinny and make it a 2 piece with room for your thumb

but it's so much easier to whine about it.....

Then it is basically a Weaver mount and not a Picatinny rail.

jwp,

"Easy peasy to cut a picatinny and make it a 2 piece with room for your thumb."

Or buy Burris's steel, 2-piece "mini-Picatainnys."

But that evidently would still make some members whine.

Forgot to mention that some companies make rifles with detachable magazines designed to be loaded from the top as well--such as the DTB on my Mauser M18 7mm Remington magnum--which fits flush with the bottom of the stock, and also (unlike most non-detachable magnum magazines) holds 5 rounds. It also feeds VERY well.

The Beretta Mato has a detachable box magazine that fits flush

+1

Most of the inexpensive rifles made today use detachable mags for some good reasons. Most all of them have closed top actions which are proving to be more accurate. Using a detachable mag is the only practical way to get rounds into the chamber. Also not having to work around an internal box magazine, (floor plate or blind) makes it easier to achieve good accuracy. Not that great accuracy can't be achieved with traditional rifles, but it is easier, and cheaper to make it happen with closed top actions and detachable magazines.

I'll be honest, it took me a while to come around to detachable mags. But my Tikka's and Ruger American Predators shoot better than rifles costing 2X or 3X as much. I've decided I can live with them. And it has nothing to do with more rounds or faster reloads. My magazines hold only 3-5 rounds and I don't carry any more rounds into the field than I do when using a rifle with a blind mag or floor plate.

There are flush fit AIC mags, as well as the Ruger 3 round mag which sits a little further below but isn't uncomfortable to carry with the hand around it. The Ruger will even work with Seekins bottom metal, which isn't a flush bottom metal.

Grin....;)

Thought you might enjoy that comment!

Getting excited down here for the mule deer rut. Have located an area with plenty of "bait".

Expect your neck is swelling too....

Mausers,1903's and 1896's hold 5 and have stripper clip guides. The perfect bolt action rifles.

kwg

My first gun with a DBM was a CZ527. Once I got use to the cosmetics I really like the setup and the option of carrying a spare loaded mag.
The single stack DBM's typically feed very well too.

Love AICS M5 dbm setups in a sporter weight rifle.

Loaded mags in a pack are a bunch easier to deal with than rounds in a wallet or even a pouch.

I can certainly dig a blind mag set up, but my hands aren't so tender they can't deal with a bit of magazine hanging down, especially on a well balanced rifle.

Thanks Shaman, I was not even aware of those.

MTM products are made just up the road from me in Dayton. I've tried other ammo carriers. These last forever. I had one box of another brand shatter when it hit a concrete floor.