Even Craig Boddington is calling the .275 the "".275 Rigby.""

And now the new Rigby company is (delightedly I am sure) actually marking rifles with .275 Rigby, and making headstamped ammo!



.275 Rigby is an imaginary cartridge name that seems to have come around since the internet, mostly by American writers, who I can only assume have confused the .275 Rigby- Mauser rifles sold by Rigby as the first bit of that name being the chambering and the second bit being the rifle. It's incorrect. It's the .275 - while the rifles J Rigby&Co sold were "Rigby-Mausers".

It was never called a .275 Rigby. In the old catalogues, it was just a .275 bore. That's just what they called the 7x57 in England and the colonies. Same as a .303 was a .303.


Their has never been an original Rigby rifle stamped "".275 Rigby"" or a rifle by any other makers like Westley Richards, Holland and Holland or anyone else stamped "".275 Rigby"" and their has never been any ammunition British or German called ".275 Rigby" or any cartridges ever headstamped "".275 Rigby.""

Rigby sold rifles chambered in .275 (and their own ammunition marked for the bore size.) The .275 ammo sold by Rigby was just their own brand of high velocity loading - they never called it by their own name, the ammo boxes were marked .275 bore, Rigby High Velocity cartridges.


I first noticed it sometime around twenty years ago. Somehow this has turned into some kind of internet truth that .275 Rigby is a cartridge name. People make custom 7x57's (or .275's) and have them stamped .275 Rigby. But it's nothing to do with Rigby.

The new Rigby company, is no doubt delighted that American gun writers have mistaken this cartridge for having something to do with them, haven't said a word, even though they have all the old ledgers which show the rifles all marked as ".275 or .275 HV"" (But from photos I've seen of the people at that company, the new Rigby company people they all seem to be hipsters under the age of thirty, so possibly they just don't know any better either.) And surely Craig Boddington doesn't do all his research on the internet.

Can we stop this now. It's just...annoying.

[img]https://i.ibb.co/VM9bLz4/275.webp[/img]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021378632

Hornady disagrees.

Sure, If you agree to drop the "aught six" pronunciation for the 30-06 too.

[bleep] it's worse than I thought.

How about "The Elephant Slayer?"
:-)

I like alternate names.

.300 Whelen

.25 Neidner

.250-3000

7mm Express

.243 LBC

6.5 Creedmire

Doesn't bother me a bit.

But call a magazine a clip, all hell's gonna break loose.

I just call mine the 757

mines a 7x57

CarlsenHighway,

I tend to find more important subjects to get worked up over, but still want to thank you--as you've provided another subject for what I hope will be a reasonably interesting historical article.

For the moment, I'm wondering why you didn't object at the same time about why the .416 Rigby is called "Rigby"--when Rigby's catalogs only called it the .416" Bore.

You might also object to the .30-30 Winchester, since Winchester called it the .30 Winchester Center Fire. Marlin came up with the .30-30 designation, apparently because they didn't want to stamp "Winchester" on any of their rifles. Of course, this was before the U.S. government urged the formation of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Association in the late 1920s, so various companies would get together to make sure ammo and firearms from various companies would be safely compatible.

275 Rigby sounds cool, but I wouldnt go out of my way to find a rifle stamped as such.

I have no idea where the Rigby craze came from, but it gets on my nerves. Same thing with calling every straight stock with a cheekpiece "Rigby style". Makes my toenails curl up.

Hey! Don't forget the .366 Bock....

Oh that silly goose, Paul Mauser ,had no idea he had misnamed the .275 with that 7 x 57 foolishness after inventing it. And speaking of fools, how about that Ferdinand Von Mannlicher who misnamed the .256 Mannlicher with the ridiculous moniker of 6.5 x 53R after inventing it in 1892. By rights, I suppose the 6.5 Creedmoor should be called the .256 Creedmoor. How 'bout the new .256 PRC?

7mm-08

Zatt iss nodt korrekt. Think bore diameter...hence it should be something like the .358 Otto.

Mine is stamped 7x57.

...and a handsome devil it is.

But is it stamped 7x57 "MAUSER"?

I mean, let's get ultra-correct about all of this....

Why are today's rifles chambered for the .22 Varminter (a term copyrighted by Jerry Gebby) stamped .22-250 "Remington"?

For that matter, why are today's rifles chambered for the .30 U.S. Army now stamped .30-40 Krag?

Why are most rifles (or ammunition) for the 6.5mm rifle cartridge, co-developed by what was then the Combined Kingdom of Norway and Sweden in the early 1890s for their armies, now called the 6.5x55 "Swedish Mauser"? The armies of both nations used rifles chambered for the same round, in Norway a Krag-Jorgensen, while most "Swedish" rifles were made by Mauser.

Why is the .38-55 (a cartridge introduced by the Ballard in the 1870s) now usually called the .38-55 W.C.F.?

Any difference in throating for this exotic beast ?

I've always thought the proper name was 7x57 and all else was marketing hyperbole or a variety of foolish colonial era snobbery. The alternative name makes some people happy, so why not let them use it. I have three 7x57's in my rack, not a .275 anywhere around here.

Why is the .256 Newton not called a .264 or even a 6.5mm?

The HORROR!

My Westley Richards/Mauser is stamped "275 MAUSER"


Mike

I may not sleep tonight

What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
- Bill Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet

It must be a transgender cartridge. In today's world, perhaps it identifies as a 275 Rigby.

HA!

But apparently some other hunters are easily offended by nomenclature....

There are better things to get excited about.

Referencing a .45 “Long” Colt will cause some folks to break out in hives.
Meanwhile, the .233 vs. 5.56 debate rages on…..

https://books.google.com/books?id=h...amp;q=%20275%20rigby%20rifle&f=false

Quoting the Duke, regarding a rifle he bought for his wife, the future Queen Mother.... pre internet IIRC.

Not sure John, I'll have to dig it out. Jim Wisner built on the tweaked Swede.

You've posted photos of that rifle before. It's great!

Was asking more out of curiosity than anything else, but did kind of want to tweak the OP about his obsession about what he regards as "correct" cartridge names.....

That was clear.

Oh how things have changed when the 6.5-08 A-Square does not even get mentioned in this conversation. ;-{>8

Hell, I was called a pedant after I undertook to straighten out some garbled mathematical-physical terminology.

The 45 Colt thing actually had consequences long ago. There's a reason it was referred to as 45 Long Colt. The 275 Rigby is a might confusing as it serves no real purpose but I really don't care. I've personally got bigger issues at the moment like sourcing some 7x57R cases for the combo rifle shotgun.

Ruger made a small batch of M77's and chambered them in "275 Rigby" in honor of the African style rifle design.

https://lipseysguns.com/ruger-m77-african-chambered-in-275-rigby/

Apparently they made the No. 1 in it as well.

https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail?itemno=RU1A275RIGBY

So... Will .275 Rigby ammo fit in "The Clip" of my 7mm Mouser...

Which brings up another story: A little over a year ago I bought a Sauer drilling, a 16x16/7x57R. A drilling-loony friend contributed some cases (already had 7x57 dies, and the correct shell-holder). So I was astonished one day when visiting Capital Sports in Helena, Montana--and found five 20-round boxes of Prvi Partizan 7x57R 139-grain factory loads. The price was around $20 a box, so I bought 'em.

Turned out one of the younger guys in the gun department had ordered them, thinking they were standard 7x57 Mauser ammo--which they couldn't find much of, anywhere. He was VERY grateful when I bought all the ammo....

Mine makes no mention of Mauser or Rigby.

"7x57 Rigby" would be an interesting variation....

bothers me not what anyone calls their cartridge except when they call it a 257 Bob. that gets on my last nerve!

Or the ever popular 9.3 BS

One is still on my bucket list.

What does Ackley Bob do to your blood pressure?

Bruce,

Let's get into the cartridge minutiae again: That's the 9.3 B-S, short for the 9.3 Barsness-Sisk....

Hope all is well in Nevada,
John

Doing OK, John.

Did you see my newest hunter, Ms Emily?
Peg is convinced I'm nuts.



also, I still call it BS.

Oh, And one more thing... Can i make .275 Rigby ammo that fits in "the clip" of my 7mm Mouser by starting with 257 Bob brass...

I like those Interarms Mousers.

Mule Deer, You're welcome.
You have belittled my outrage, tried to dull my blade with your .416 Rigby reference, and then throw sand in my eyes over the .44-40 and .30-30 etc. (All of which I now rebut thusly: People did refer to the .416 Rigby as the "".416 Rigby"", and Rigby did mark their rifles with the possessive "Rigby's .416 Bore." Plus all the ammo made for it was marked by Kynoch (and others) as .416 Rigby. That's my point entirely - .416 Rigby is the actual name of that cartridge. And likewise regarding the WCF cartridges - both names are valid historically.)

But I get worked up over people calling the Lee-Enfield rifle an ""Enfield". Oh Goddamit. I think that's worse.

If anyone in N. Idaho needs an box of 275 Rigby I've got one your welcome to. I don't want to use it in my 7x57R and I don't own a 275 Rugby.

It must be a box of the new hipster ammo. 7x57 with imaginary cachet.

That's the amazing thing about the internet. Rigby are actually now making the ammo. Hornady are selling the brass. Rigby are stamping new rifles with the chambering and people are building custom rifles and doing the same thing. It just sounds so old-world British. It never existed until the 21st century. It's like Dungeons and Dragons role playing.

The two guys most famous for using the "".275 Rigby"" are WDM Bell and Jim Corbett. Neither of their rifles had .275 Rigby stamped on them as the chambering. Neither of them ever loaded a cartridge with a .275 Rigby headstamp. Neither of them ever heard of that name. Both of them referred to the cartridge as "the .275"".

I am belabouring the point, but names are important.

I was just about to come up with that one but you beat me to it.


I think seven by fifty seven sounds betterer than two seven five or two seventy five.

I'll oblige.

Don't waste enough time watching "Outdoor TV" to have adopted
catchy nicknames for everything. F'n drives me crazy, people try to
emulate the idiotic "Pros".


Every property, field, woods....has a name. Even worse is naming the freaking animals.
What was wrong with, "I saw that buck with the drop time last night"?
If I'm ever heard saying, "I saw old Droppy last night" you all can be assured I've finally
lost my [bleep] mind.

I found this fake one online for the OP:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=MOO%2bGWew&id=088871A93CEEC9E808B9916755B3D6B0C6881C7C&thid=OIP.MOO-GWew46iCHxSLC1s6LgHaE8&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fi.pinimg.com%2foriginals%2fae%2fbb%2f18%2faebb188a908b2f12ad4ca83d37ab1a57.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.30e3be1967b0e3a8821f148b0b5b3a2e%3frik%3dfByIxrDWs1VnkQ%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=385&expw=576&q=275+Rigby+original+rifle&simid=608048686567132326&FORM=IRPRST&ck=F99063B3F02C571AE48833B7A10DAFC7&selectedIndex=3&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

Actually, it should have been called the 284 Rigby.

no

I think I’ll worry about something else, thanks very much……

My Winchester Model 70 is stamped 7mm Mauser.

I just want brass and rifle stamped ".257 Better Bob"

To be correct, since "Roberts" is the plural of "Robert," it should really be called the "The Bobs"...

.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby
.275 Rigby

Got a headache yet?

I dunno..mine says .275 Rigby on it, and the brass is head stamped likewise.That said I think the OP is right, original designation was always simply ".275"

To sound cool we shooters in America do that kind of thing a lot.Witness the .45 Long Colt.....there is no such thing.

My .275 for effect...

Perhaps see if Duluth Trading Company ships internationally and order up some appropriately sized buck-naked boxers. You have a serious case of undie-bunch and DTC can sort you out.

We Americans sure do a wonderful job of bodgering the English language. Hell, every language come to think of it.

What makes my eyeballs roll back into my head is "Remmy", Winny", "Bob", "Creed", etc. Are people's fingers broken, such that they can't type a couple extra letters? I say this in jest (sort of), and suppose that it's part of the natural progression into "text speak" that is taking over our vernacular. That or a need to sound witty/hip.

Thank you. (speed goats? really?)

[quote=ingwe]I dunno..mine says .275 Rigby on it, and the brass is head stamped likewise.That said I think the OP is right, original designation was always simply ".275"

To sound cool we shooters in America do that kind of thing a lot.Witness the .45 Long Colt.....there is no such thing.

My .275 for effect...

Tom,

One of the things I did during this discussion was get out my reproduction copy of the 1924 Magazine Sporting Rifles catalog of John Rigby & Co. Inside the cover, they list the five rifles available:

.275 bore
.275 bore H.V. [high velocity]
.275 bore Light Model
.350 bore Magnum
.416 bore Big Game

The catalog does not call any of those cartridges Rigby, but JOHN RIGBY& CO. is the top line on the cover, and printed in the largest, boldest letters. This might suggest to some people that the listed cartridges are, uh, Rigby cartridges.

Sir, Question - what were the prices listed back in 24?

I think they sold 'em by the pound. Hee hee. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Yeah, they did!

The prices ranged upward from 26 pounds 5 shillings for the basic .275s (not the Light Model) to 47 pounds 5 shillings for the .416 bore Big Game.

Thought I might also post photos of this genuine Rigby rifle in .416, the favorite back-up rifle of Luke Samaras, the well-known African PH, when in 2011 I hunted with his company in what was then the Selous Game Reserve in Tanzania.

Thanks. I'll never have the coin to call them up and order a rifle but maybe I can piece one together.

Scratch together a piece of wood, wait a while, then an action etc - I know - long run it's more expensive than making the call but I like the look more than the name. Fancy wood, rust blue big hole in the end are the requirements.

Teal,

The solution I eventually came up with, after getting a chance to shoot Harry Selby's famous .416 Rigby around 20 years ago in Arkansas (he sold it to a rice farmer there after retiring) was buying a used CZ 550 Magnum in .416 and modifying the "Bavarian" style stock to come closer to Rigby's contours.

While down there I also got to weigh the Selby .416, which went 9-1/4 pounds, and felt quite handy, so that's also the weight I tried for--and accomplished. It worked quite well, and Luke was pretty intrigued with too, since as noted he decided the .416 was the best all-around back-up rifle in his considerable collection (which included doubles), because it was powerful enough for stopping elephants but shot flat enough to killing wounded lions while running away at up to 200 yards. (I never did shoot an elephant or lion with my .416 a couple years ago, but did get three buffalo.)

Unfortunately, of course, CZ no longer makes any model of the 550, and prices have gone up. I got mine for $1000 around 2000, and did all the stock-work myself.

Might add that the words on top of the action are "Rigby's Special .416 Bore For Big Game." So perhaps we should call the cartridge "Rigby's .416" instead of ".416 Rigby."

Mine would be used exclusively on stumps or maybe a Yooper whitetail - it's purely a want, driven by childhood dreams of some day working for Rigby/Holland & Holland etc. ZERO practical use or need so I was thinking 375

I'll start looking around next year for an action etc.

I wonder if there is any 25/36 Marlin brass?

Yeah we in America have the habit of throwing a name on a number, like .243 Win..30-06 Springfield,etc. But we also frequently have a habit of just saying .243, .270 etc....sooooo like most of the english language we butcher, there seems to be few rules.

I’m going to start referring to my 1903a3 as a “.30 Government-‘06”

Ah, but grasshopper, the gov't never used the word "government" in their cartridge titles. That was done by commercial and private interests, initially to differentiate from .30 Army (.30-40 Krag) ammo.

Example:

Cartridge, Ball, Caliber .30, M1906.

Or for WWII-era ball ammo: Cartridge, Ball, Caliber .30 M2

Huntz I think you can use 25-35 win cases and ammo in the Marlin. That is what I read in the old days, unless you just want some marked that way.

.25-36 is ever so slightly bigger in body/shoulder. Protocol is to fire .25-35 in it and then only neck size thereafter.

Quality Cartridge still makes a run of it once in a blue moon, but it's pricey.

A Rose is a Rose no matter the name.

Well, to further confuse matters...

7mm = .275" (we call that the 270 Win)
7.82mm = 308"
6.5mm = .257"
6.7mm = .264"

I suppose it all comes down to whether we are measuring lands or grooves, if I'm not mistake, it's the English that measure by the lands, hence the .275 designation!

"The Chowgarh Tigers" from Corbett's Man-Eaters of Kumaon

" The right side of the tiger was towards me and, taking careful aim with the .275 I had armed myself with when leaving camp that morning, I fired. Relinquishing its hold on the buffalo, the tiger, without making a sound, turned and bounded off up the ravine and out of sight"

Hey, now...that one sounds like a dandy.

Someone oughta jump on that and take it mainstream.

Uh, it might suggest you were looking at a Rigby rifle catalogue, is all that would do. That's how they state all the rifle chamberings, as you have now discovered.

Do you think that J. Rigby&Sons didn't know that other sporting manufacturers make .275 cartridges? Even their own brand of ammo marked for their High Velocity .275 rifles was George Roth ammo repackaged.

If you can't find the "".275 Rigby"" cartridge or chambering mentioned prior to 1968 by Rigby themselves on their rifles, on their ammo, in their catalogue (or anyone elses), print advertising, in their own sales ledgers, or in the hunting literature - anywhere - or even preserved in hunting parlance in the countries it was used in, then uh, it's not a Rigby cartridge.

Enough, you all suck and I'm going hunting.

Some people are just Too OCD.

Give it up. There has never been any, or at least very little, reality to cartridge nomenclature. My favorite is the 38 special. How the hell did that happen?

I feel a Theodore Roosevelt quote is in order here - "Complaining about a problem without proposing a solution is called whining".

Since you have such a strong opinion about the 275 Rigby name (amongst other things), what do you propose to call it?!

CarlsenHighway,

No, I did not "just discover" that. Have a library of books and magazines going back to the early 1800s on various sporting firearms subjects, on not only American and British hunting rifles, but those from several other countries as well.

Just wanted to provide some actual subject matter. Oh, and have also published an article/review on the most recent Rigby rifles in. 275 (which also have actions made in Germany, which was very well made and accurate.

I am betting my OCD beats your OCD, but apparently not on cartridge nomenclature. Whatever.

OK, now it is driving ME nuts. Which company in the last year or two made a single shot in .275 Rigby? It has a female name I believe they called it. This thread has made me want to go buy one....

Seems to me that Craig Boddington explained the 275 Rigby somewhere along these lines. Rigby sourced actions from Mauser and the 7X57 Mauser was already in their line up of calibers. Trying to be politically correct for the day and not wanting to use the name Mauser for fear of offending anyone after WWII Rigby went with 275 VS 7X57. 257 Bob is correct in it's the way the bore is measured using the lands vs the groves.
I have a pre 64 M70 carbine that is stamped 7MM. Not 7MM Mauser or anything else just 7MM. I have a custom rifle in 7X57 Ackley Improved that's just stamped 7X57 and another I had stamped 275 Rigby. Personally I like the Rigby designation as it's different.
After all this I find my 38/55 should be 38-55 W. C. F. Oh the horror of it all LOL

Lipsey/Ruger #1 .

My dear boy, your really need to learn to understand the value of experience and shared knowledge with learned people who know more that you obviously do.
People who know, don't feel any need to justify or explain to anyone.
People with experience don't care for incidentals such as "nomenclature" which is notoriously valueless, regional, questionable and meritless, particularly when directed at tools. eg: define "hammer," when anything held can pound?

I have owned rifles chambered for the 7x57, 7mm Mauser and .275 Rigby, including one manufactured by the aforementioned, John Rigby and Son. I used the same dies to load for all and the same cases plus a few extra which are still being loaded and used for same. My fetish, is not nomenclature, but rather performance in the field, because I like to hunt with rifles. There are many on here that have shot animals I have not, but I can make the same claim and the numbers are way into the 3 digits since I scratched the itch in 1981.

The point is, everyone has an experience with some cartridge and most latched onto whatever worked for them. It doesn't make ones choices better than an other's, but what is of no value is the senseless critique, of meaninglessness to the converted.

Your opinion is your right and letting of steam is quite ok too, but it is valueless in a ballistic world aimed at competence for which the multi-named and universally understood 7mm holds mortgage over.

It meets every desirable attribute in the hunting world..........
Acceptable recoil
Acceptable Accuracy.
Works with all 7mm bullet weights.
Adequate for the majority of all animals hunted.
Mostly, It doesn't care what you think and neither do most other readers by the look if this thread..

Consider your opinion noted. Move along, nothing of value to see here.

Courtney Stalking Rifle?

Almost all the gun shops around here have rifles with tags that say 7mm, as the only caliber designation. I get a funny look when I ask which 7mm it is. They pull down the rifle, look at the barrel, and 90% of the time it is Remington Magnum.

Bruce

No, not it. Below - the Courtney stalking rifle!

YEP! That's the one. thank you, I can sleep tonight without obsessing over this. But looking now I see it chambered in .303 British and 45-70. Did I dream that it was done in .275?

Not in .275.

My dear Australian, that was a long condescending statement.

If they did I’d buy one.

It was the mocking ""uh" that got to me. I should have known better than to post at all. I knew it was going to go like this.

CarlsenHighway: We have a saying here in the United States of America - "don't let the sound of your own wheels make you crazy"!
Put another shrimp on the barbee and crack open a cool one.
Life is just to short.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Nomenclature.

Love that word.




P

Not cheap! A tradesman of the time would make two quid a week.

Speaking of nomenclature, we don't actually call them that here.

Crikey! Don't come the raw prawn now.

LOL!

THANK YOU for saying that. And to this I'll add "running" as an obnoxious substitute for "using"...

What jorgeI said +1

my Ruger #1 is marked 275 Rigby , but my old Ruger 77 is marked 7x57 my bullets for reloading are marked 7mm some bullets also say .284 . my Ruger #1`s are marked 257 Roberts but i do have a 256 Newton rifle . i do have 275 Rigby brass new and used also 7 x57 brass new and used . the confusion continues ? my 256 Newton rifle and 256 Newton brass might be tuff for my grandkids ? maybe Mule Deer needs to write a book on rifles-bullets-brass- powder for dummies . com ?

By chance I started rereading the book HUNTER last night, the biography of noted African professional J.A. Hunter, written in the 1950s. He grew up in Scotland but moved to Kenya at age 18, where his first centerfire rifle was an unmodified military Mauser 7x57. But he called it a .275, due to Kenya then being a British colony, so the available ammo was probably British as well....

At the end of the day we humans, for some weird reason, are pre-disposed to modifying the nomenclature of stuff the moment it's released. Whether it's out of ignorance, anger, wittiness, or just plain laziness, there you have it. Perhaps it's one of the ways language evolves? One thing for sure is that sort of nonsense is an impediment to communication in the sense that strictly adhered to spellings and definitions are the pathway to effective and precise communication between people.

John Taylor in his book African Rifles & Cartridges refers to the 275 (7MM) Rigby in his chapter on small bores.

What about the term "Mannlicher"?

Somehow a Ruger with a stock that extends to the front sight is a Mannlicher?

"Fullstock" is sooo hard to spell.
As far as the current trend of calling almost anything that fires a 7 x 57...a .275 Rigby...I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with a couple generations of guys who grew up reading the books of the old guys who hunted Africa and India...who actually may have used Rigby rifles or Eley ammo using the Brit bore diameter? Don't underestimate the power of print or film media to influence the public....I wonder where the .44 Rem Mag would be today without Dirty Harry? Then too, there is the fact that actual Rigby rifles of yesteryear command prices few can afford...so the temptation to abscond with the cachet/name .275 Rigby, incorrect as it may be, onto a well made Mauser Sporter chambered in the working class 7 x 57 by whatever maker is quite strong.

All of which goes to prove that the "Fire" is a sophisticated group of intellectually apt individuals who are completely at one and totally satisfied with Paul Mauser's offering, lovingly adopted by John Rigby with explored competence throughout Africa, India, Australia and beyond and further imported to the newer colonies by Winchester, sealing the world standing it has today.
If we could have such a life...........

"Beware ye, the honeyed words flowing forth from the lips of ye Cousins from Oz."

Yeah, that's another one, but grist for another mill.

And here I thought that was a line from an Eagles tune (Take it Easy)

It's simple economics... A .275 Rigby is more desirable and hence worth more $$ than any old 7x57 or 7mm Mauser... It reminds me of an almost New Audi my brother sold back in the 80's... Brother hated the color, Calfschit tan with brown guts he called it... Customer came in looking for one... When he got around to asking what color it was i saw my brothers eyes drop... So i blurted out "French Vanilla" with "Chocolate Leather"... Bingo... Fish on & Landed... Been in charge of marketing around here ever since!...

Everybody knows it as the 7 Mouser!!!

The voice of reason.

I guess folks better stop calling the 6.5 Creedmoor, the "Creed" too. After all it comes in 6mm and 22 flavors as well.

Did you threaten to shoot the cat for clawing the couch?

Too cool.

An entertaining thread. Yowza!

Well, even the manufacturers have struggled with that, so that one doesn't bother me so much:






If the folks that developed it sometimes embraced the "Long" moniker, I'm ok with that one too...








What I AM sick of is "run". Where the [bleep] did that come from and hasn't it "run" its course yet? Instead of a swear jar, I'm thinking about putting up a "Run Jar" at work. "I run Weatherbys", "I run Leupolds", I run Federal" "I run Hoppes". Jesus! Make it stop already!

Another one that has finally subsided somewhat is "Weapon System". I almost had a stroke when some Tacti-Cool numb-nut called a SAA a "weapon system" on the old Top Shot TV show a few years back...

What I AM sick of is "run". Where the [bleep] did that come from and hasn't it "run" its course yet? Instead of a swear jar, I'm thinking about putting up a "Run Jar" at work. "I run Weatherbys", "I run Leupolds", I run Federal" "I run Hoppes". Jesus! Make it stop already!

...[/quote]

It comes from guys who like to run their mouth.

DRT ?

THANK YOU for saying that. And to this I'll add "running" as an obnoxious substitute for "using"...

Thanks jorgeI - where the hell did "running" come from?

Thinking about this whole thread, this issue of bastardization of terms/nomenclature: I think maybe it's a result of countless hours spent over the last couple decades of staring at a screen and reading (seemingly) tons of crap about shooting (and if you're reading this I bet you're guilty too), and witnessing the phenomenon of suddenly everyman having a platform on which to speak. BI (Before Internet) the only writings one read was done by pros who if they didn't have a decent command of the King's English at least had an editor who did. The language was kept tight, or relatively so. Now on the other hand, we're bombarded with words written by Jake the Hermit, Egbert the Basement Dweller who never finished high school, and Antonio the Newbie who never took an English class in his life - all pontificating semi-erroneously, in their local dialects, and ballooning the common vernacular with ill-thought out witticisms and malaprops.

I fear we must get used to it because everyone with a thought in his head is free to express it to a million people. Definitely a good thing, overall, but it leads to degradation of the language in general, and to our sport in particular, if standards/definitions/spellings aren't at least attempted to be recognized.

The Swede 7x57.

Mule Deer, is there a word or term for that bolt design, other than straight? thx

Come on now, there is a reason those wannabe soldiers use the term "running" instead of "using". It makes them feel like the man that they are not, and know that they will never be.

Hold on tight! I believe butchering of the English language is just getting started good. Certain ethnic groups of people purposely mispronounce and spell those words, (if they are capable of spelling) of the English language, apparently just to piz off other people that pronounce and spell those same words correctly. Here is an example. The word "thing" has now evolved into "thang". Marketing has picked up on this and you will see names of certain products spelled the "hip" way. Don't be surprised if your children are being taught at school (and TV) that these slang words are the correct pronunciation and spelling of the language. RJ

Schools no longer mark off for spelling or penmanship, don't teach cursive, B/C is acceptable for "because"
Text spelling/grammar is making it's way into everything.

Has anyone hit on the caliber vs. cartridge thing yet?

No. We were waiting on you!

Sorry, I am one of those heathens that is not bothered by the misuse of those terms ..at least not very often....

I have also frequently referred to my .275 Rigby as simple a .275.....

"meat missile"

I like my 7X57's I love my 275 Rigby

granted I don't like changing words to slum like loopy, bollits and the like.

But its really about the last of things I tend to get worked up over or would post on basically.

Kind of like is the most important thing .gov has on the list is time change issues? Really?

Now boss and I argue over Creek and crik. Quite often. so is it chick or cheek I always ask... lol. And I call it creek and he calls it crik.

Exactly John.

I've had HUNTER on my shelf for years -

Fixt it. 🥴

Wow. That's just beautiful. I'd be afraid to use something like that. It's to nice and doesn't deserve to be dented up.

Language evolves.

Try to make sense of this:

Here bygynneth the Book of the tales of Caunterbury

Whan that Aprille with his shoures soote,
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licóur
Of which vertú engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eek with his swete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours y-ronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open ye,
So priketh hem Natúre in hir corages,
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially, from every shires ende
Of Engelond, to Caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke,
That hem hath holpen whan that they were seeke.

Standard language in 1387.




P

I'm not about to go through 8 pages of this nonsense.

So in case no one has said it yet.

GFY.

Not entirely germane. Medieval English was all over the map spelling and grammar-wise, and look what the result was. Everybody who put pen to paper had their own code, with no universality whatsoever. I've had to wade through crap like that and it's no joke. There's a very good reason Latin was the written language of scholars and scientists for over a millennia - no uniformity whatsoever in any other common language. It would seem in many respects that we haven't advanced all that much.

Me savvy 'tales of Caunterbury' little bit, you betcha. Me no savvy Big Stick.

Nice:

Highland Stalker

From Rigby’s Campfire web page blog :

Classic calibres and chamberings for sporting rifles by Diggory Hadoke

“Many would argue that the .275 Rigby, an anglicised version of the German 7×57 (AKA 7mm Mauser) is their classic round. It certainly sold in large numbers in the Rigby-Mauser rifles that the firm offered in the years before the outbreak of World War Two. The .275, a bottle-necked case with a long bullet was the choice of many a Scottish deer stalker as well as the, somewhat unconventional option that W.D.M. Bell selected.

The most famous of Rigby’s .275 users is undoubtedly Jim Corbett, who was presented with one in commemoration of his 1907 slaying of a man-eating tiger. He used the rifle to shoot the ‘Man-eating leopard of Rudraprayag’, as well as scores of other animals over the following three decades. Corbett’s rifle now resides in the Rigby collection. “

Queen Elizabeth has one also. She’s pretty famous.

And as long as we've went this far... Which "Boolit" would you guys recommend For game from "Prairie Poodles" to "packyderms" with the occasional "Speed Goat" thrown in... At ranges of, Lets say 10 feet out to 1800 yards with this Rig... B... Or should i just "Fa Gedda Bout It" and "Run" a "Creed"...

All you need is a thuddy thuddy an' some store bought bullets.

One thing I can honestly say, had come to a conclusion on long before this thread. I've either read, and several times been in discussions by posts, and for sure seen and admired many pics of his hunting trips in New Zealand, most I remember I think by backpack or canoe, can't remember all for sure, and in about the past 10 years +-1? But obviously good outdoors trips worthy of sharing, very interesting, and he was obviously always willing to share helpful, or interesting details, and I remember well many different rifles! I often thought seriously "now there's a MAN, that if I could go to New Zealand, what a rewarding experience it would no doubt be to share a hunt, campfire with"!
I have no reason to doubt it!
And now I also don't doubt, concerning a few on this thread,
"Would I want to share----no, no I'm sure of it, no way----
Wait, I know, let's have a spelling contest?
Start without me!
I belive youins is of the sort, you'd put the crown of thorns on an A GOOD MAN, drive the nails in his hands, then laugh, spit in his face!
At least you would by text. In reality I believe you nothing but HYPOCRITICAL BSers!
Pee on your campfire!

Wow, I'm at a loss for words ! So, GFY.

I for one like this thread... And i'm glad the OP started it... It has given me a good laugh and has been Interesting and entertaining... And judging by 8 pages it has been very successful and the OP should be proud of it... Now if any of ya'll wanna poke some fun with some Quotes that turn my stomach... Here they are..."Good to Go"... "And your Golden"... "Life Got in the Way"...

Totally !

Awesome !

Uber !

And the now, Perfect !

one hole all day!

Of course it’s not German, dumbass, it’s Middle English.


Damn.




P

If I do my part …

"The Germans Got Nutt'in Ta Do Wid It"... Jackie Gleason As Sheriff Buford T Justice in "Smokey And The Bandit"

I don't know if your calling me a dumbass was tongue in cheek or for real. BUT, notice the "e" at the end of the word I used. Reading comprehension skills lost in the fog? Got a dictionary?

So the question is, Can we all stop calling it the ".275 Rigby?"

I'm thinking, "Probably not." Treat it as if it were a knickname. Gadzooks! The things we get in an uproar about.
Paul B.

My personal take on this is that one should be able to call their firearms what they want.

I call my 30-06s "Thirty Briar Light Magnum", unless I really want to put on airs in which case, I refer to them as "Seven-Six-Two by Sixty-three"
I call my 25-06 a "Twenty-five Niedner"
I'm thinking of calling my 7mm-08 a "Two-Seventy-Five Rigby- Ought Eight"

If Bruce Jenner can wear a dress, and call himself a woman, I should at least be able to name my deer rifles what I want.

After centuries the damn Kiwi’s periodically have a vote on the design of the countries flag….yet some want to be the arbitrator on cartridge nomenclature.

I recently just picked up a Ruger number one RSI in 7x57 or 7mm Mauser when I hear 275 Rigby it just sounds high end or snooty to me

I just shot the gun for the first time last week with my hand loads topped off with Hornady sst was very impressed with the rifle

Probably the same reason a bunch of English majors call the 7mm Rem Mag, 270 Win, 30-06 Sprg, 243 Win etc, etc calibers.

I have a rifle that is marked on top of the chamber as 275 Rigby.

Why would I call it anything else?

When the caliber/cartridge "question" came up maybe 2-3 years ago on the Campfire, I posted a list of all the rifle/ammo companies that call it "caliber" on their websites--or "calibre" among British companies. The list was several dozen caliber/cartridges long--but a few of those have switched to cartridge on their sites since then.

Because if you asked for 275 Rigby (or 30 WCF for that matter) cartridges at most "ammo stores", you'd likely be met with a blank stare.

I have see references calling it the .275 Rimless, .275 High Velocity, and the .275 Rimless Rigby. Also both "similar " and "identical" to the 7x57 Mauser.

Whatever trips you trigger.

Not to derail the thread (as if it was on rails to begin with), but I find it interesting that the invention and proliferation of the printing press had the effect of stabilizing spelling of the writen word during the days of Shakespeare.

Enter the www...and now we see the language, written word, and general use of the English language diverging once again into chaos.

It's a strange world.

English has always been a flexible language, even more than most, especially "American English." Unlike some European countries, such as Germany, America doesn't have an official "board of geezers" who decide what is and isn't CORRECT.

Which is why Noah Webster based the first American English dictionary on "common usage." Which keeps changing....

I guess it would be safe to say that only a "dead" language, like Latin, never changes.

One of Webster's motivations, and he made this very clear in his lectures and papers, was to standardise American English, across the country, eliminating regional differences. He was therefore very much one of those geezers.

I like it as it is the original designation that Rigby used on their stalking rifle. The rifle I had built was along those lines.

Had it been another, more Germanic style rifle, I would have had it stamped 7x57 or 7mm Mauser.

A friend of mine bought some of the 275 Rigby ammo. The brass was stamped Hornady 7x57.

I got the box for the collection.

It's been a great thread full of the esoterica that makes this such a fun hobby. Indeed, these nomenclatures should never change!

Can someone help me with my old Model 70? It's just a "super .30" but the barrel stamp seems to leave me some options.

No....
I don't believe I will........

That’s a laugher since Hornady sells cases headstamped 275 Rigby. 🤣🤣🤣

Sure. I think it should be called a .300 Ouch & Ouch.

What is the mfg date of your rifle ? 300 WinMag was introduced in 1963. But you already knew that. Looks like a nice rifle.

It's hard to argue with that.

1949 Model 70 Super Grade.

Ergo .300 Magnum (when there were no other .30 Magnums) = Super Thirty (H&H's original name) = .300 H&H Magnum take your choice.

These days hardly a magnum - a .30-06 plus a couple hundred FPS so nice to shoot.

I do like my Rem 721, it's stamped 300 H&H Mag.

Classic Panache

I have 275 Rigby, but the barrel is stamped 7 x 57, and a Springfield that is
marked 30-06 , I think that is more interesting and "Safari" like.

Like this?

Or like this... .

......... or like this one.

Yup!

Those are nice rifles and a bit hard to find in unmolested condition.

Mine came to me with a BDL stock (with checkering) but is not marked BDL beside the Model 721 marking on the receiver which was the norm. Might have been a factory boo boo.

Mine is marked just like yours. Other than a Decelerator pad, missing rear sight, and an extra sling stud hole in the forend it's in very nice condition.

This thread has shown me that evidently my life has a lot less stress, than evidently other folks have in theirs....

I don't know about others... but as long as I have the case, that goes in the rifle I have in that caliber, then I am fine...

I only have to worry about not confusing me.... everyone else can take care of their own CRAP, they are stressing over needlessly...

I think I'll go out in the gare-age, and load some 275 Rigby for my 7mm Mauser Winchester Model 70... then do some more for the Ruger 7 x 57.

I hope I don't put the wrong ammo, in one of those rifles...

Semper Fi

FJB on the jackass he rode in on.


how about Screw the Jackass, that rode in on Joe Biden?

( that would KamaLamaDingDong Harris, in case ya didn't know),,,,


Addendum....

in regards to the 300 H & H.... I think the coolest looking round I've ever seen or admired, was the 300 H & H, in Nickel Coated Bras.. with a 220 grain Hornady Round Nose bullet.... Talk about Old School Cool... doesn't get any better than that one...

That reminds me, I've got to get some .30 Army ammo loaded.

But he still hasta get a prostate exam each year.

It's funny, but I can't remember the last time I had one. Dad had prostate cancer when he died, so they take a PSA reading every once in a while mine came back last week: 0.74 ng/mL. Above 1.0 you have to have somebody else name your deer rifles.

They were watching Dad's PSA for decades. Finally, just as he turned 75, the doc told him it had slipped up over the line.

"I've got bad news for you, Ralph," said the doc. "You've got prostate cancer, and you're starting to have Alzheimer's."

"Gee doc," replied my dad, without so much as a blink, "I thought you were going to tell this was bad news-- like I had cancer or something."

Mom was there in the room. She confirmed the story. Dad still had his Comic chops at 75.

It turned out he didn't have Alzheimer's. The doc had proscribed a low dose of Valium so Dad could get to sleep better. The next doc weaned him off it, and he was fine. The prostate cancer was treated with a little insert they stuck in his forearm that leaked Estrogen into his system. He'd go in every 6 months and have it replaced.

Funny, but those Estrogen inserts came out about the same time the 6.5 Creedmore became popular. I wonder if there is a connection.

I had two of those inserts over the course of 1 year as part of the treatment for my prostate cancer.

Those things mess you up. I started having hot flashes and mood swings along with all the old buzzards in church who were going through "the change", not to mention ZERO sex drive.

I'd did sell off my magnums and medium bores after that and had a 6CM built. Hmmmm, I wonder if ........

See? I bet you started having warm fuzzy thoughts about the 270 WIN as well.

LOL ..... That would have been a great way to express myself and self identify as a 270 owner.

If we can quit calling .257 Roberts the .257 Bob .

275 Rigby (mispelled Rugby and it stuck)
257 Bob (I hate that one for some reason)
270 and the association with the O'Conner fella

6mm Dasher (Santa's cartridge)
7x30 Waters (probably used for fishing)
300 and 338RCM (official cartridges of the Royal Canadian Mounted whatever)
45-70 Govt. (Good enough for government work)
458 Lott (recoils a Lott and probably costs a lott)
50-70 (same as the 45-70 good enough)

Thats about the extent of my vast knowledge of the history on these.

I'll stick with "Mule Deer" on this fracas.

Who cares what we call it as long as we all know what we're talking about. Street names change. Addresses change. I didn't have anything to do with the current names so I probably can't gripe if it changes again. I think 275 Rigby is kinda cool, if not nostalgic. All worthy of the 7x57mm

As long as this thread and others like it continue, the 7x57 is getting promotion so I am fine with that.
It needs to survive and not may walk away from it once they try it. By any name, it really is that good.

... Amen...

.275 Rigby doesn’t bother me in the least. And while I don’t lose any sleep over it, I continually wonder why so many people misspell 6.5 Creedmoor.
Creedmore
Creedmoore
Etc.

Can we also stop calling JACK O'CONNOR O'ConnER?

I'm just pleased that no one has brought up all of the cartridges attributed to Parker Ackley.

I call it the 6.5 CRUDmore.
Paul B.

I fail to see why anything other than bullet diameter was/is ever used in naming cartridges? As in 7mm equals .276" if you run it thru any conversion app. But the .275 Rigby uses a .284" (7.2mm) bullet.

The 275 Rigby is special we all know it some just don't want to accept it..

Sure it's a fine round, but call it correctly, it's .284"

Depends on whether you are referring to bore or groove diameter. Think barrel specification vs. bullet diameter.

Well, that's exactly my point. He didn't mention Rigby in the name at all. It was always just the .275. The Rigby name nowhere mentioned or in sight because Rigby had nothing to do with the .275 cartridge - other than they chambered their Rigby-Mauser branded rifles in that caliber. This is what I was talking about in the original post.

And the ammo JA Hunter used would have been Kynoch, made in England. Red and yellow, with .275 bore written on the packet.

Now we are going round in circles with you guys digging up evidence for my argument. I'll swap sides now to even the sides out

Sorry to prolong the nightmare....

The book "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles" identifies the English designation of the 7x57 as the "Mauser .276", not .275 Rigby or Rigby Mauser. Ludwig Olsen's "Mauser Bolt Rifles" provides the original Oberndorf Mauser sporter specification for the 7x57 rifles. It lists a bore diameter of .276 and a groove diameter of .285. SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings show a bore diameter of .2755, a groove diameter of .283 and utilizing a bullet diameter of .2845. No idea what specifications that Rigby used for their rifles, but their label seemed to stick.

So for those who remain conflicted, there are options.

I could care less about bore dimensions, the bullet is what does the job.

As you wish.....your rifle is a .284

If I call my '280 Remington/06/7mm Express Ack Imp' a 270 + P, will it shoot faster or just be gay?????

No, but it will be queer.

I once chambered a 35 Whelen for a guy who had me stamp it 35-06 just for laughs.

Then there was the guy that thought that the 6.5-284 case would make a great 7mm.....true story.

My brother has a 284 that he makes the brass out of 6.5-284 brass. You guessed it. He calls it his 7mm-6.5-284.

how about a 7 mm H & H/Rigby?

CrudMore?

is that anything to do with the NeedMoor series?

My 1896 Steyr, Caliber marking and I like it.

I call mine a .275 Short RIgby.

It's more expensive it it's Rigby

This has been a fun read. Many good points brought out and a few laughs. The .275 Rigby has king of a nice sound to it so I can see how people use that title. personally, I think 7x57 has a nicer ring to it so that's the name I use. To each his own.
On another note, A few years back I bought a rifle and the guy threw in a box with a bunch or reloading stuff for the gun. Most if the brass was well used but there was one box, red in color marked Remington and inside was 20 rounds of 7x57 brass, The headstamp was, "RP 7MM" and nothing else. Brand new brass. I never loaded it and it's part of my cartridge collection.
PJ

The English seemed reticent to use metrics. I recently picked up a Wesley Richards “Colonial Grade” 1893 Mauser sporter marked “ For .275 Mauser Cartridge”

the early Winchester Model 70's made in 7x57 were stamped "7MM" and nothing else also... "7MM"= 7 Millimeter Mauser ?, or it was the only commonly available 7 in those days...

A rose by any other name
Is still a rose

A friend sent me this empty box for my collection. It was not cheap.

The brass was all stamped "7x57" from Hornady.

Ha! It would be annoying to pay a premium for Rigby-branded ammo & have the headstamp wrong. Mine was stamped .275 Rigby. Which is a good reason to point out that if Rigby is selling ammo labeled ".275 Rigby" then the OP's original desire to have that label no longer used is probably doomed. All I know is that I like my compact RSI with a fixed Leupold Big Bore!

We all know it's a 7x57 but the history has that "cool" factor going for it. Discriminating shooters know the story. Those who know are "above" the unwashed masses so to speak.

As I recall Ruger put out a couple versions of the Rigby. Just look at EdM's example. That's no ordinary blaster. That's a rifle to be proud of. That is worthy of the name Rigby. Yes, technically it's misnamed. But it speaks for itself.

Just saying.

kwg

my new in the box Ruger #1 is stamped 275 Rigby i have ammo ,dies and brass stamped 275 Rigby . i have new in the box 7x57 Ruger #1 ,dies ,brass , ammo also marked 7x57 Mauser . so what`s a guy to do ? oh lordy ? Pete53

Don't mix things up, whatever you do! Could be catastrophic!

I prefer the 7x57 but my 1912 mauser is marked "7".

My modern production Mauser is marked 7x57

Pretty rifle 8x57.. Very nice.

Slow day I guess

That's a fine looking handle on that classy rifle!

Stunning wood on that 7x57 !!

the 7x57 Mauser is what i call 7 Mauser,
the 30-06 Springfield is what i call ought six.
the 7mm-08 is what i call 7-08.
the 257 Roberts is what i call 257 Bob or Bob.

Being a Mauser made rifle, this would make perfect sense. Stamped "7mm Mauser" would be correct as well.

Winchester m70's are stamped with both names. 7x57 and 7mm mauser.

I do have Hornady 275 rigby brass I'll load up and eventually shoot through the 7x57's

People do that cause they are English rifle snobs. They seem to forget that we kicked the English out of our country in 1776. Since most, if not all of the Rigby bolt action DGRs are based on Mauser actions, it seems like calling it the 7mm Mauser would be higher praise.

I'd rather pay homage to the English than the Germans. YMMV.

Have owned quite a few 7x57s, and a couple of .275 Rigbys. I usually call them what they're marked.

They could be lumped together and called, "The perfect cartridge".

Outstanding wood & work !!!!

Hey,what about my 7 Mouser ?