Here's a photo of the doe I killed this year. The .257 85HV impacted above the nose and exited between the ears. Impact was about twenty yards from muzzle. Oehler average for three, three groups was 3,919 feet per second.



This is a photo of the exit from the buck at about 90 yards.

Classy. Stick to boring people with your nonsensical drivel in the optics forum.

Hmm, not impressed.

what a douche. The ground hog patch is -------> over there thats where that rig with that load belongs

To me that shows a lack of respect for the animal you are hunting. The longer I've been hunting the more I respect the animals I'm killing and want to do it in the most respectful way possible. It's what I'm trying to pass on to my kids, and if one of my kids did that to a deer intentionally they'd get an earful.

God bless,

Mm

You crossed the line, unfortunately you are not the first to post garbage like this.

Ya know, chit like that can happen in the field, hopefully not on purpose but it can happen.

But why in the [bleep] would you post a picture like that?

Velocity/energy, we get it. Go shoot a [bleep] pumpkin or a water jug if you want to experiment with carnage.

This pisses me off.

It would reflect poorly on those of us that cherish the honored values and traditions of the field if we did not point at this and express disgust and disapproval.

EXACTAMUNDO!


Thanks Dave.

I have no problem with a guy taking that shot if he is well prepared and practiced. No doubt the deer was DRT and to me, that is important.

Posting the pic here is low-class, senseless and does more harm than good.

Wow.

Thanks, guys for the responses. All that was visible was about three inches of neck and the face. On a doe tag here one can kill a doe or spike I hunted several days and that was the last hour of the last day when I took that shot.

I sure am curious how a photo of a deer shot in the head is different from a deer shot in the chest. Both are dead meat. How is it sensible or senseless and does harm or do good?

Maybe someone more astute than me could explain this respect for the animal thing. Shoot one in the chest is respectful and shoot one in the head and that is not respectful? What? I don't get it. They are pests in my garden and orchard. Tell me they are not objects of hunting in the woods and food on the plate.

By the way all who would not take the only presented shot on the last day at the last hour of the season on a legal game animal tell me where I was wrong.

No one said they wouldn't take the shot. And as far as why posting that photo was tasteless, if you have to have it explained to you then it's not worth the effort.

For the same reason sometimes a casket is open and others closed.
In the first we do the best we can. In the second it would be tasteless and serve no useful purpose other than be disgusting.

Oh and the fps was another jewel of info. Wow.

The OP has proven time-and-time-again that he is simply incapable of reason.

Its hard not to feel the same way, but I've been ignorant in quite a few areas in my life till someone comes along and enlightens me, hope the same for the OP. Glamorizing gore has no place in our sporting tradition, it is part of it without a doubt and that cannot be denied but not the part worth going over again and reliving. The animal gave up its life, have some respect.

MM

I'd explain it this way to the OP. If you have non-hunting friend chances are that his/her attitude about hunting is close to the average person's. In other words, chances are he thinks hunting is OK and supports your right and mine to do it. But doesn't have strong feelings about it one way (pro) or the other (anti).

So bring him to the screen, tell him you were just trying to illustrate bullet performance or whatever it was you were trying to show, and ask him what he thinks of your photo and whether it puts hunting in a positive or negative light.

I got redfaced pissed when I saw the picture, and the dumbazz who posted it doesn't know why.

This is why I chuckle when someone says we hunters have to stick together. I'll pick who I want to stick together with, and this clown isn't one of them.

Am l correct in understanding you guys don't appreciate good bullet performance?

You're an idiot.

Jes..s

Ph;;K'n


Chr....T!!!!!!!!


What a City-iot!!!

Yes, that's correct, every last one of us who've commented were commenting on the bullet performance.

We just can't appreciate it.

Go back and read Northern Dave's response on page one.

Ringman, if you have a modicum of sense about you, you'll remove that photo.

With my modicum of sense which one do you want me to remove? There are two photos of bullet performance.

Same guy who scans the country side looking for game or whatever else with his rifle scope.....clueless.

The only thing you justed "posted" with that photo is YOUR true colors....now GFY you POS.

Exactly, posting the picture is in poor taste. Only shot you had, needed the meat ok, whatever.

This is like a douche walking around suburbia packing his AR and a Glock "open carry" because it is his right to do so. You aren't pulling anyone off the fence down onto the right side by posting crap like this.

If you don't get it already no number of keystrokes by me or someone else is going to get the point across.

Bullet performance my ass. Are you saying that shooting a yearling doe in the head at 20 yards with a bullet traveling 3900 fps is a good test of "bullet performance?"

I always thought you were just "quirky" but now you've confirmed you're simply a complete azzhat, rivaled only by Savage99.

GFY.

My feelings exactly

This is my concern, too. Fuel for the anti-hunting group, using it as tangible evidence of a hunter's capacity to be inhumane.

It would not be hard to influence a person not familiar with the damage a firearm can do to be against hunting with visual reinforcement such as that, and then have it proudly displayed as "bullet performance".

Yup

Geez where do I start...

# 1 You have NO respect for hunting and what it stands for.

# 2 You shoot to kill and kill only. I wonder if you even butcher the animal or just take what is easy to carry and leave the rest?

# 3 You need your ego stroked on a regular basis. In this case its how fast and powerful your gun is. You take pics and hope you get stroked.

# 4 You think of a big game animal as a pest. Like a skunk or opossum.

# 5 If the only shot I had was head and a couple inches of neck, I would have eaten tag soup that year. Wouldn't have even crossed my mind to take the shot. Not even once!

# 6 You post that picture on the internet and brag about your velocity or whatever. WTF is wrong with you?? Do you not realize that the Anti's comb sites like this just looking for this kind of crap to promote their cause?? You can bet that your picture and comments will be on display at some freakin rally somewhere to prove what dumbass cold blooded killers we hunters are!

As someone else said, remove this picture PRONTO! Do some soul searching and try to figure out why what you did was wrong.

With that short nose ( what's left of it), it looks like a fawn to me.

I couldnt care less about the anti's. Theyre gonna hate hunting whether you shoot a deer in the chest or face. What I do care about is [bleep] like the OP bragging about and posting such a shot. Zero respect for the animal. We all get that it happens, bad shots, shots intended to minimize meat loss. Some of us routinely use these shots for such on other game(squirrels, etc.) Clearly, though, the OP had one thing on his mind, that being satisfying his own sick curiosity of the outcome of this situation. Truly one [bleep] up individual.

PA, good point on antis--nothing we can do or say will change their minds. It's the people in the middle I worry about. They're the ones who voted out the CO spring bear season not too many years ago.

Sorry I made you all look like idiots.



1. I don�t remember how many times I have asked for folks to tell me about this �respect for animals�. This �NO respect for hunting and what it stands for� is totally new to me. Tell me what respect for hunting is and tell me about what it stands for, please.
2. You don�t shoot to kill? Why do you shoot? Interesting you should bring up what is easy. The hill where I killed it was very steep. I tried to get it to slide right into the back of the pickup, but it hit a rock and missed. Can you believe I had to lift it into the pickup!
3. It seems you guys are stroking each other�s ego. You are all hunters and condemn me for making a legal kill. Rush is correct when he talks about the chickification of this country.
4. Please tell me the difference.
5. I passed on three earlier in the season while I was looking for a spike. Most of the guys here would take the same shot.
6. Let me see. Occasionally my right knee hurts. I wear corrective glasses. The antis are mentally ill. This photo will not influence them one way or another.



Your ability to look at a photo of a bullet blasted head and determine what it is is a gift. The problem with your assessment is it is a mature doe. I saw some larger and some smaller this year.

No, your ability to post a photo of a bullet-blasted head and think it's worthwhile is a gift. There should be a "sportsman's special olympics" for gifted "hunters" such as yourself.

Edited to add: My apologies to Special Olympians.

Ringman,
Sometimes the entire world isn't fubar. On occasion, one might be best served to pause and reflect inward. In unanimous fashion, the reasoning sportsman in this thread are ALL trying to tell you that the photo you posted is gawd-damned ridiculous and offensive. And, you've been given countless reasons here as to why. Still, you're too thick-headed to understand otherwise.

As for the bullet performance at that distance, a ball bearing from a sling shot could have inflicted similar damage so don't talk to us about bullet performance.

You are one of those people that will just.never.get.it.

No matter how much we explain. You just won't. It's a fact of life. I used to think that if you just pointed out common sense to people like you that they would understand eventually but I've come to realize that there is just no talking sense to some people. They think the complete opposite of the norm and are incapable of seeing things the way normal people do.

It's a waste of energy and a waste of time to even try.

Good Luck to you Ringman

Mature doe..the only thing mature on that doe is that it doesn't have spots.

You posted several words but didn't tell me about respecting hunting or respecting animals. I am still waiting for a cogent lesson on either of these "respects."

Thanks for wishing me good luck. Next Saturday is the beginning of elk season for me so thank you. I filled two buck tags and one doe tag this year.

I am delighted with my new rifle. It is very light and sure seems to be a game getter. I used to have a light rifle, but a gunsmith sawed it in two right in front of the trigger guard.

How about this
Respect for the animal means not putting gruesome pictures on the Internet for anyone to see. It's like being up by 7 touchdowns and spiking the football and doing a dance in the end zone when you score again. Just not necessary and lacking respect and class

Respecting an animal is not posting a gruesome photo on the 'net? I think the antis think all hunting photos are gruesome. That antis care is some of the argument here.

This has been a very interesting thread. It reminds me of the reactions here when a guy posted a video of killing either a deer or an elk with a spear. I thought is was really cool, but just like here the chickification reared its ugly head. My wife said about this thread that these guys need to go to their rooms and read the story of Bambi.

Thanks for taking a stab at helping me understand the respecting animals thing. It seems it has nothing to do with the animal in question but the posters on the 'net.

Well, your wife is as phuggin' nutty as you and I'm glad she's given you affirmation - you're a match made in heaven.

You were worried about not using the tag after shooting 2 bucks already

You are welcome??

Its not the anti's that matter. It is the large portion of the population that is indifferent, until they see a picture like that. Same reason i didnt post a picture of the pile of 35 does that two friends and i killed in two afternoons on a cull hunt a couple of years ago

Tell you what - why dont you take the picture down and think about it a couple days. Let the naturally defensive reaction wear off and think about the 35-40 other opinions you have heard on this thread. If you still dont understand, put the picture back up

Or, just keep dancing in the end zone while the rest of your team and the stadium looks on in disgust

Well, I am with Ringman on this one. If you want to see gore, go to our very own Varmint hunting forum and check it out. Little cottontail rabbits (THUMPER!) Blown to bits by 45's and such, ground squirrels blown to bits with parts flying in every direction including straight up, lots of gory stuff.

The post was about the effects of hypervelocity and it made the point rather well. I once posted a photo here of a mule deer buck whose entire on side, from brisket to withers, was solid purple from hydraulic overload which is always my goal with any rifle load and bullet combo. Not because I want to see gore, but because I want the very humane DRT or Bangflop kill as oft as I can get it. WHAT difference does it make if it is a skewered squirrel flying through the air, an entirely purple ribcage on a buck from a 6/284 or this picture!?!?!?!?

No, I wouldn't want this photo in my living room as a decorative item, but then most of my dead deer photos don't qualify, either.

I seriously doubt that this doe ever heard the shot that killed here. I see that as a perfect kill. And I can handle the phot ever since I started wearing big boy pants about 50 years ago. We are hunters, we kill stuff, sometimes it ain't pretty and velocity has its own special way of making death happen more quickly and more surely than not so fast numbers.

And I saw nor heard any end zone dance in the thread, only a display of the effects of velocity for our benefit. Learn from it (Best practices) or not (Stay stuck in the 308/30/06 mud), but the picture is only a demo, not a brag shot.

And a damned fine demo, at that!

I think it is interesting seeing what a 257 85 grain will do in the case of a frontal head shot. I have never shot a deer looking at me. I did shot a cow elk which was looking at me. I shot the elk with a 300 wby mag 180 grain bullet. The results were similar to the results on the deer.

safariman, the pics of blown up ground squirrels was my first thought also. Why is it that many hunters are repulsed by the pic of this deer yet find humor in a blown up ground squirrel?

I think it is the result of the value we place on them. A deer is a beautiful creature that we love to see, watch and learn about and eat. A qround squirrel, while cute to some, is more often seen as a pest. Something to be eradicated.

I think the op is seeking some sort of gratification in annoying most of us at the campfire and his juvenile behavior has been rewarded.

I am guilty of hypocrisy myself in the value I place on some animals. I have reverence for the life of the deer I harvest, yet when a corn eating, feeder destroying pig shows up I don't care how it's killed as long as it's killed.

That said, I'm not going to post pics of any pig carnage I may inflict. It all boils down to reverence for life itself IMHO.

Some folks go out of their way to conceal a bullet hole for a field photo, some people go out of their way to capture the angle that best displays an eyeball hanging out of it's socket on an exploded snout shot doe.

Personally I'm somewhere in between those two extremes but I'm definitely closer to the non gore side of the spectrum.

I might not always remember to make sure the tongue isn't hanging out the mouth on a photo of one of the kids with their first deer... But I do make an effort in all the excitement.

It's a culture thing.

Photos like the OP posted are prime anti fuel, they will take that chit and run with it. It really helps their case.

Ringman--

Just take the photo down!!!

You got your attention here.

That is all you wanted.

Please think about what you did before you use that .257 on the Elk hunt coming up.

Velocity/bullet performance my A$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You dumb Ph...ck!! (sorry I just couldn't type this without getting pi$$ed off again.)

Big boy pants? You honestly think this is about handling some gore? This is about a single word - respect. Respect for a big-game animal, life, and, death.

The number of posts proclaiming disdain for the photo, shows there's a plethora of fine folks with deep appreciation, admiration and respect for this big game animal.

Hey safariman, I can handle some gore. We liberated Kuwait city in 91, I was a boy when we got there, a gung ho 20 yr old USMC E3.
The Iraqis occupied Kuwait city and they slaughtered men women and children for fun. Raped, tortured, dismembered and heaped in mixed piles of body parts from children and mothers, store keepers, cab drivers, grandparents. What they did to that city was beyond obscene, the devil himself couldn't have done worse. We took in over 100,000 Iraqi POWs. The Iraqis that didn't surrender, the ones that ran or fought us... we killed every one of them. We slaughtered them for what they did to that city, It was revenge, it was an extermination of evil and I took pictures of a lot of it afterwards. Horrible pictures.

As I packed my bags to leave that theater 6 months later.... I made the easy decision to toss those photos in the trash. I didn't want them coming home with me, I didn't want any of that coming home with me. It's in the grey matter inside my brain housing. I've got those images upstairs whether I like it or not. I was a boy when we got there, but I left there a man. I realized that the photos were in poor taste, I decided that I didn't want anybody back home to see what we saw, to see what was done there. We went to war, we performed war tasks, and now it was time to shut up about it and go home. Suddenly I understood why my grandfather wouldn't talk about the battle of Okinawa in WWII.

I put my big boy pants on and tossed that chit in the trash on my way out of the country.

So don't talk to me about big boy pants as if there is some correlation between displaying carnage/gore and being a man.

Maybe I misinterpreted your message, we've never crossed words before so I'm hopeful this is the case.

safariman,

Thanks for the reality response. The hypocrisy here is amazing. I posted the photos of the two wounds and yet everyone flips out about no respect for the doe. The buck was shot so that the bullet grazed the near back leg and exited in the chest as indicated in the second photo. It disappeared upon firing. About two minutes later it came dragging its hindquarters out of the dense brush only to be shot in the chest from the side. It didn't die for about two minutes after the first bullet hit it. Like you said, the doe was dead before it hit the ground.

Only one person tried to inform me about respect for animals. I respect my dad. Respecting an animal makes no sense to me.

There was no bragging in the post. Maybe I could brag about a twenty yard shot, but I don't see any room for that. Occasionally we all encounter "dumb" animals. Sometimes they are spectacular specimens of the species. If I was going to brag I would post my essay "Making of a Rifleman". I used to shoot five days a week on my range when I got home from work. How many here have fire three shots, off hand, into a 1 1/4" group at 100 yards? How many here would be disappointed with an offhand 2 1/2" group at 100 yards? It takes a good rifle with a good trigger (mine was set at fifteen ounces) and lots of practice.

I could brag about finally getting a lightweight Weatherby, restocking it (Lone Wolf), rebarreling it (Pac-Nor 26"), installing a new trigger (Timney set at 20 oz), installing a Swarovski z5 5-25X52 (which took four tries before I kept one) in Burris Signature rings, but I don't because I saved and saved and saved to have enough money to put it together.

It isn't so much respect for the animal, more it has to do with respect for life, for death, for others.....

The pic? I wouldn't have posted, but I would taken it and filed it in my more macabre picture album.... that all two or so pics gets gets purged every 6 months.

Some don't have enough conscious to even consider thinking like that. It's all about them. I can do this, I can do that. I can do whatever I want.

Payback is often a bitch.

I had a guy working for me that had been over during the gulf war, was close enough that the day after the turkey shoot on the highway of death got there and shot pictures of the aftermath while it was still fresh and smoldering. BSing one day he told me a bit while talking about other stuff. A few days later he walks in with three albums of the pics he had taken, offering to show me, warning me ahead of time. After looking at them another guy comes in and reached to see, I put my hand on top and looked at hi and asked if he really wanted to look at war carnage... he didn't..

Would have been showing respect for others if the OP had asked if anyone wanted to see a baby with its eyes blown out of its skull, instead of a large slamming pic for shock effect. Then plays his game, like a childish attn whore.

OP - GFY, and definitely NOT in a good way.

You could brag? You just did you hippocrate. Don't for one minute think you're right in all this, because another member agrees with you. His whole argument was weak, and pointless.

You don't become right, because someone else does it too.

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Crossed words or not, I am so very sorry that you had to go and see that stuff, then do what you had to do. Thank you for doing it, for your service and for being a great American, x 10. As well, I consider you to be a terrific member here who ads much to this site.

OK to disagree once in a while with friends and still be friends.

I try to teach and exemplify honor and respect toward big game animals like most of us here, but freely admit to having purchased the old "Exploding Varmints" VHS video that was being sold about 20 years ago and watching it over and over again with my buddies, all of us roaring with laughter. Interesting the disconnect there, and even I do not understand it completely because I would not like to see deer being blown to bits with 20mm's or some such. Perhaps, and this is just a new rough hypothesis of mine, we hunters are guilty a little bit of extrapolating higher values to some animals than others like the anti's do without even thinking about it. Although a big difference is that the anti's credit ALL warm blooded furry creatures with human like reason and emotion (never seen a PETA ad decrying the use of bug spray or yellow jacket traps, which kill slowly) and I guess that each of us puts a different set of values on each animal or animal set, but based upon what? Therein lies the question. None of them are sentient beasts, nor do many of them work off of much more than instinct and survival.

Me, I could see the photo for what it was, a visible demonstration of the effects of super high velocity and hydraulic overload to a creatures region most directly affected. It might be that shooting hundreds of 'cute' Impala and Kudu cows (talk about having BIG, cute brown eyes, those two have GOT 'em!) for Leopard bait for my hunters in Zim made me a bit more calloused for such pictures as the one posted. I used a 300 RUM for all of them, because I did not have time to be tracking the stuff I was shooting, I had to shoot, get it into the land rover quick and either go get another one or two or get them into the trees as bait animals quickly. If I could get a head shot I took it and it was always kinda gory but we never took time to photo or stare or contemplate. We had a timeline to meet with a hunter coming in expecting to have Leopards hitting baits.

We called it the HWY to hell. I think it was actually hwy 8. (not certain, nearly 22 yrs ago)

You saw the pictures, you know what I'm talking about.

Like I said, I threw mine away.

Your friend showed a lot of trust in you if he took that risk and showed you those photos.

Hey guys, I'm out of here, said my piece, said too much .

I'm off to funner, lighter threads.

play nice.

Battue, that is an amazing and heart warming picture. Maybe especially to me since I am suffering from late stage Polycystic Kidney Disease and it is getting harder and hard to get out and hunt and now HAVE to have friends help me if I go.

Thanks for putting that one up. Whoever shot that buck (Pulling for the guy on the right) that is a very fine deer there, and a great picture.

We're good.

Good shot. I knew a guy who loved killing deer with his .17 Remington with head and neck shots. Not for me, but to each his own.

Thanks for taking the time to post the picture and your report of bullet performance. It does look like you've managed to get the socially correct into an uproar, with their many ignorantly contrived rules of behavior which they seem to enjoy enforcing by monkey piling those they feel don't follow their particular social morays. They're fine with the nasty language and other poor behavior, but....... anyway. That always makes me give thanks that the moderators have so few rules. Of course, that doesn't stop the many posters who feel they should step in and create a bunch of rules for us. Evoking respect for the animal, equating scenes of warfare, etc. are all poor attempt to ridicule you. Forgetaboutit. Personally, I'd rather be tolerant of other harvest methods; ball and shot, buckshot, etc are far less accurate/precise and are acceptable ammo in many places. Some of these same guys would love to gut-shoot a wolf and watch it crawl away.

I guess I'm getting old, but most everytime I see a silly argument/fight on or off the internet, I'm reminded of what Reagan said when his aids woke him up in the middle of the night and informed him that the Israelis had blown up Iraq's nuclear plant: "Boys will be boys!"

So, that was a .257 Weatherby Magnum? What bullet (brand, etc) was it? I'm not much for head shots and rarely take them, usually on a wounded animal, etc., but it looks like if you're gonna do it, high velocity may be a good answer. I wonder what Mach 4 would do. I'd be reluctant if I was using, for example, my 38-55 pushing a 250 grain bullet at 1170 fps. Without the massive shock/pressure of high velocity, the results could more easily be poorer. A slight missplacement could easily result in a wounded, suffering animal escaping harvest. In your case, that little deer certainly died quickly without suffering and no meat was ruined. Should be a good eater.

Also, about how much penetration do you get with that load. You showed an exit wound on "the buck." What kind of penetration was involved? Although I shoot a couple of fast rounds (7mm STW, etc), I'm generally not impressed with velocity until high ballistic coefficients are involved...for long-range shooting. My idea of perfect velocity is about 2600-2700 fps for most big game hunting, so I'm apparently in a whole different ball game than you.

Anyway, this could have been a good "teaching post" for those of us who have not done what you did, if it hadn't turned into a gang-banger thread. I learned something, which is why I read this forum. Thanks.

Bill

Is anybody truly surprised to see Ringman act like an absolute bat-schit crazy buffoon? The dude should be in the Loony-Bin.

Tanner

Some will never get it. The "some" are starting to show up, and are on Rings side.

Very predictable.

It's pretty obvious that respecting an animal makes no sense to you.

I suppose this is what you end up with technophiles impressed with their abilities and equipment,and who regard animals as nothing more than living targets of opportunity to be used as testing media and to be snuffed at whim;and apparently the more grotesque,and tasteless the illustration the more it proves the point of the superiority of the gear and the "advancement" and mastery of the perpetrator.

People wonder why I am comfortable as a curmudgeon....I see all too much of this self-entitled narcissism displayed by egocentric gear freaks who regard hunting seasons,and piles of unfilled tags as nothing more than a test bed opportunity for wreaking havoc in order to watch their "gear" at work.

That they have to post it to the world in order to "illustrate" the effects of a bullet at 3900+ fps (like we are so stupid and inexperienced that we don't already "know"),is revolting,disrespectful,and a breach of common sense and good sportsmanship.

That killing animals is brutal,and sometimes messy is little excuse to brandish the horror on a public forum and add mutilation to the mix...keep it to yourself and store it for the knowledge it provides,rather than brandish it in public.

There is a whole host of repugnant human behavior that constitutes "reality" but that is not meant for public display....that restraint is one of the few things that distinguishes civilized people from savages.

The treatise on becoming a rifleman is note worthy but frankly I could care less about it and am unimpressed....keep it to yourself.Nobody cares.

A famous author once wrote that,today,given the advancements in warfare technology and our willingness to kill remotely, by comparison,ancient civilizations went to war "like angels".

It's too bad that some technophiles today don't concentrate as much on killing and hunting like gentlemen as they do on mastering the technology.

Personally, I'd have not taken the shot....I don't need a deer that badly even though the law allows it.

i think a *graphic* tag on the subject would have went a long way.

your title does not intimate that there is a picture of half a deer head about to show up when the thread is clicked on.

that way, we can decide for ourselves if we want to see it or not, and go from there. internet forum 101.

+1

Nothing wrong with taking the shot. You filled a tag and put meat in the freezer. Good deal.

Posting a very disturbing and grotesque photo of the aftermath on a public forum just shows bad taste.

"Only one person tried to inform me about respect for animals. I respect my dad. Respecting an animal makes no sense to me."

This makes me think of having a conversation with my 5 year old, there simply is no comprehension. But I expect my son to gain this comprehension with maturity. Heck I might have enjoyed seeing groudsquirrels or jackrabbits blown up when I was a kid or even in my teenage years, but I moved on and matured and no longer have any appreciation for gore. It is a part of hunting, but I compare it to eating and digesting a fine meal, there will eventually be sh"t involved but its not the part I want to discuss with my friends. My two cents, but I've learned on these forums when someone digs their heels in and plugs their ears you aren't really talking to them as much as making a statement on the topic.

God Bless,

MM

Good point. Could be that it's also not the part your friends want to hear about.....but some will bring it up anyway.

I've been killing critters since the early 70's and that is [bleep] disgusting.

A clean kill obviously, but keep it classy if you're casting it out to the world on a forum.

If you can't figure out that question you're to stupid to have a firearm to start with. Which, you're proving with every post.

But congrats. You shot a fawn in the face. You should be proud, you're quite the "hunter."

Bullet performance,correctness of posting this picture,etc. notwithstanding, I don't think that was a doe. Nose is too short. I'd bet money it was a button buck.
If you are going to legally shoot does then do so but know how to tell the difference in does and bucks.

Stan in SC

tzone,



Thank you. Certainly I enjoyed deer hunting this year. But then that's normal. I passed on three deer before I finally took that one. I saw other does; although none were fawns. Some were larger, one was smaller.

Stan_in_SC,



Perhaps you should know we, in Western Oregon, can legally kill a doe or a spike when using a doe tag. In fact the reason it was the last hour of the last day was because I was looking for a spike. They normally are larger than does. It is too bad I threw away the head. Otherwise I could send it to you so you could look for the "buttons". The photo is a doe.

You posted both in your first post. Go back and look. See if you can spot the difference. Look hard, it may take a while.

Theres a reason the derivation of his handle "Wrongman" is used frequently here�.

Well, right off the bat, I see differences. First, there's no eyeball bulging out of the socket on the chest shot. Second, on the chest shot, the deer doesn't appear to be a fawn.

Maybe I just have super-keen eyesight??

Hanging eye balls do tend to get our attention.

Smart man! You must have told him about your love of shooting fawns in the face and posting pictures of their eyeballs hanging out on a public forum.

My question is, what's the difference here, they are both dead deer and will be turned into food? If one was in pain, it was the buck since it didn't die for about two minutes while the doe died before it hit the ground.

Or it could be he is getting old and has dementia. He and I are still friends, he just doesn't get to work on any of my guns.

If you had nude photos of Rosie O'Donnell and Heidi Klum, I bet you'd say "what's the difference, they're both nekkid women who wouldn't have anything to do with me if I was the last man on earth."

Ironic, bible quote in signature line, zero comprehension on the value of life and dignity. Exactly why I dislike churchy types.

What a D-bag.

I've been watching this thread develop Ringworm and the overwhelming feeling is the inappropriateness of posting the photo. First, everyone has seen head shot deer before and it's nothing to look at so no news there. Second, there is no educational value in showing a graphic photo like that which leads one to conclude doing so was somehow in service of your ego.

Either way noone gives two schitts and a nickel about your rationalizations or otherwise of what can only be correctly called a stupid azz move to post that up.

Your new name Ringworm is appropo and obviously something has screwed up your insides as no sportsman would put that stupid photo up and we'll all collectively thank you to refrain from doing so again.

We who are not hypocrites would collectively thank you hypocrites who laugh at blown up animals in videos for not posting on a thread like this.

You and I are on the same page when it comes to the churchy types. They are generally as hypocritical as the posters here. I don't attend them.

You being an animal killer are going to teach me, another animal killer about the "value of life and dignity." Maybe you believe the lady in San Francisco who wanted the hunters to buy their meat from the store where it is made instead of killing beautiful animals.

I shot a doe in the face once with a muzzleloader right between the eyes.
Her eyes were bulged out and looked pretty nasty.
Before I took a pic of her I stuffed her eyeballs back in and cleaned up all the nastiness.
If I can find the pic of her you could never tell I shot her in the face it looked pretty good.
I think it's disrespectful to the animal as well but if you like the abuse carry on.

Admittedly you may have a point. However, most of us obviously feel too much of that goes on today. If it is any consolation you are not alone, but that doesn't make it right.

The more I'm around stuff like this the more I feel some of the European countries are on a better path. To most of them a hunting license is a privilege that is earned thru study and mentoring of those who honor the tradition.

Perhaps our hunter safety courses need also to go deeper into honoring not only the traditions but also the game.

If anything your picture is nothing more than evidence that may be the case.

One good thing about the fire is the examples set by those who take quality pictures of their outdoor pursuits. I will name a few and forgive me for leaving some other individuals out. Boxer, Sceanor, Steelhead, Brad, 1 minute, Alaska Launche, Utah Lefty, Shrapnel, Ingwe and many others. Some accomplish with the best of equipment and some tell an excellent story with a basic pocket camera.

You have these and many other examples to emulate if you ever aspire to do better. If not, continue to wallow at the bottom, because eventually we will throw out the garbage. It is only a matter of time.

We do just that in Colorado. It has nothing to do with what's "wrong" or "right" in a purely rational sense.

Which animal was abused more? The doe shot in the face with a muzzle loader or the doe shot in the face with a wildcat cartridge?

The best thing to we could do with you is ignore you. No need to put you on ignore, just let you post, don't reply and let you starve until you get the point. Most of us wouldn't spend an unnecessary second around you if we had the choice.

Why do it now, I ask myself?

It has nothing to do with which animal suffered more, or died a more humane death, a point which seems to have escaped you.

Yep, you missed my point.
The abuse YOU are getting from everyone here about your pics.

Tom264,



Again I must tell you one of my strong points is ignorance. I didn't realize I was being abused here. This thread has given me much entertainment. I guess the lesson I gave my daughters as they grew up has worked on me as well. They were taught if you don't respect someone, then what they say is like the wind in the trees. There is a noise, but nothing is being said.

There is a major difference here, though. I see hypocrisy. The same folks here who would laugh at a different animal being blown up are insulted by a photo of a humanely killed deer. It makes me think of coining a word: Democraticing. It could mean doing something you do and looking at someone else with disdain who does the same thing. Yes, I think I will start using that word in the future. Thank you for the thought.

Good way to put it. So, you're making noise, but aren't saying anything.

Much better now.

Ignorance is lack of knowledge. I don't believe you lack knowledge, you just refuse to acknowledge what is put before you. That's denial, not ignorance.




You're right, it is hypocritical to laugh at a different animal being blown up and be offended by a photo of a blown up deer. But let's take that straw man off the table. Is it your contention that everyone who has criticized your photo of your blown-up fawn also laughs at photos of blown up varmints? If so, you're mistaken.

As one who does not laugh at a different animal being blown up, I can tell you there are many more like me, both hunters and non-hunters.

I don't laugh at blown-up varmints, and your photo is tasteless and offensive.

So now what's your excuse?

No excuse. I don't believe you.

You don't believe me about what?

I'm leaving now to go elk hunting. Have fun, gentlemen.

I'd join you but mine's in the freezer.

To say "I don't believe you" with no reason given is just more denial. And makes about as much sense as me saying I don't believe you shot that deer as you said you did. But if you want to check, it's easy enough to see if I've ever posted any comments on any varmint threads.

And the whole "hypocritical" argument you inserted is just a red herring anyway, and totally beside the point that your photo is tasteless and offensive to most people, hunters and non-hunters alike.

Yes, valuing one life form over another is hypocritical from a purely rational standpoint but humans are not purely rational and you're no different.

Unless you want to say that you have the same feelings when you step on a bug that you have when you run over a stray dog.

Which may be the case.

Smoke.........He can't believe anybody wouldn't want to see animals blown up, because he loves it, and he's never wrong.

Personally, I don't enjoy seeing any dead animal, but it's part of hunting for food. If the only shot I had was a headshot. (doubtful) I'd pass, and wait for a better shot.

There's a difference between a hunter, and a killer who hunts. I'd like to believe most of us are hunters, and guys like Ring are the minority.

I have nothing against head shots or neck shots, I don't think taking them makes anyone less of a hunter. Immediate death for the animal and less ruined meat. That was never my point here.

Ringy is nuttier than squirrel [bleep], always been that way. Can't argue with squirrel [bleep].

I understand the problem isn't the head shot in this thread. It's showing it, and his attitude towards it.

I was just expressing I go a step further, and don't even take them.

I know. I just want to see him say that squashing a bug is the same as running over a dog.

smokepole,



My statement about not believing you was general. Specifically I was thinking about the part above I embolden. Your statement falls in the category of hasty generalization.

For me there are two physical life forms on earth: Humans and animals. Some animals are beautiful because God made them that way. Some are not and some can't even be seen with the naked eye. The deer which eat from my garden, orchard and grape arbor are not harassed at all because I enjoy them being here for my viewing pleasure. Some microbes, of which I have seen photos using electron microscopes, are just as pleasurable to my eyes as the deer the deer.

As far as stray dog[s] go if it was in the woods chasing deer I would shoot it as quickly as I would kill a flea or tick on my arm.

Why?

I prefer deer to dogs in the woods. Which do you prefer in the wilds?

That's how I feel about folks using their scopes as binos.

Once again Ringman, you are in total denial of the glaringly obvious. You posted your photo on a hunting website where people are accustomed to seeing animals that have been shot. And not only have most of the comments been negative, if it was an election you'd have lost by a landslide.

And yet you believe that most people including non-hunters, would somehow see your photo in a better light.

Amazing logic there. I guess it's true what they say about denial.

I don't kill an animal, because i'd rather not see it. Would you kill a dog chasing a squirrel too?

Nice job at distorting the statement. I guess you condon dogs chasing deer.

I don't condone one not being capable of spelling condone.

He meant to use a condom there.

No, but I wouldn't shoot it either. Is killing always your answer?

Your signature doesn't match anything you say.

When it comes to "pets" killing wild animals. That would include cats killing pheasants and quail and other small game.

+1! This cat is pathetic.

Photo aside, I particularly enjoyed the humble treatise on shooting skill immediately after describing a wounded animal dragging itself out of the brush hoping to be finished off...

The "deer are pests in my orchard" followed by "I love watching deer in my orchard" also painted a telling picture...

The best thing to come out of this thread are the two priceless quotes:

"Respecting animals makes no sense to me."

"I must tell you one of my strong points is ignorance"

Those are worthy of sig lines, alas, my sig lines are already full about people exactly like him...

I do hope he continues to post on hunting and religious topics, though. Stupid people can be funny...

You said chasing, not killing. You ever see a dog catch a deer? Let alone kill one.

You do know some people will kill you for killing their dog? I know you said stray dog, but I have to wonder how you can tell this as it runs full speed after a deer?

Glad I'm not the only one that thought it was tasteless.

People posting pictures like this only gives anti's more fuel for the fire.

Mauser_Hunter,

The ignorance and speculation of folks on this thread is amazing. The pest deer which visit my property have been attacked by the neighbors dogs. Fortunately for the dogs I was not here and my son-in-law did not have a gun when it happened. He tried to stab the dogs with a knife he was sharpening at the time. The three dogs had one doe and two fawns down.

The idea that you bring up chasing as distinct from killing is foolishness. Dogs do not lay in ambush like cats. They chase AND do kill them at times.

This thread has taken quite the turn. I have been attacked for posting a photo, being a religious zealot, and protecting wild animals on my property or in the woods. Someone even disparaged my wife. You guys have almost too too much class for me to be able to handle.

Well, you said stray dogs, and now it's your neighbors dogs. I'm a dog lover, and shooting one never enters my mind. I've seen dogs chase mule deer here, and they couldn't get close to catching one. Nor sure about whitetails.

As for the picture? You should have taken it down instead of pissing everybody off. I'm a mod on a muzzleloader forum, and I would have taken it down for you. The rules here are pretty loose.

Ringman, it's unfortunate that the thread went into areas like religion and family.

None of that changes the fact that your photo is tasteless and offensive.

Did you vote Democrat?

Ringman you are an odd bird, but the pic did not offend my sensibilities. I do laugh at exploding prairie dogs and am not appalled by the puppy drowning thread. If you were not an attention whore you would just pull the pic and bugger off.

Typical, anything to divert attention from the subject.

Tell me this ringman. If the majority of hunters who commented have said your photo is tasteless and offensive (they have), then why do you believe most people would think otherwise?

You must have a reason.

smokepole,

If you took a moment to notice to whom the question "Did you vote Democrat?" instead of being ready to jump in with a ridiculous statement about diverting attention, you would not have made the mistake you did. It was addressed to Mauser_Hunter because he said he would take the photo down; which is taking away someone else's freedom. Also, if you took a moment to think about it you would realize I have not tried in any way to divert attention from the original post. Why do you continue to ask questions?

Eddie Bo accuses me of being an attention whore. It seems to me all the folks, including EddyBo, who have taken time to keep this ridiculous thread alive are the attention whores.

Eddybo's wrong, you're not an attention whore. Just a garden variety idiot.

Not really. You agree to certain rules when you sign up for that forum.

Mauser_Hunter,



Fortunately.



Hunting photos are not allowed when you are the mod?

Now you're attacking your allies? Whose the idiot?

Yes, hunting photos are. Yours wouldn't be, because it's offensive to some. Bragging about the load you used just rubbed salt in the wound.

I would delete in in a second, and if you whined about it. I'd show you the door. The founder of the forum would agree.

You think loose rules are good, but they aren't. All they do is encourage threads like this.

No, i'm not a democrat, but I wouldn't vote for that lame azz Romney either. Neither were worth my vote, so I didn't.

You're right. What was I thinking? You are an attention whore.

And an idiot. As to whose idiot, I have no idea.

I see what you did there

This thread is like a gut-shot elk. It won't die.

Shoulda shot it in the nose. Then posted a photo.

This has been an interesting read. A few things-

Ringman, the photo is distasteful by vote of the majority, myself included. Why do you feel most people would agree with you if given the chance? That is denial. Most people do not agree with your decision to post the photo, recognize it.

Ringman, you and I met once and had a sandwich at a Subway, went to the range and shot some rifles. We met a second time at Abbeys Pizza when several forum members from the area gathered to meet Safariman Mark as he traveled through. At that second meeting you acted like we had never met before, introducing yourself, etc. I mentioned to my wife how odd that seemed that you completely blocked out an entire 1/2 day meeting and shooting with another member.

That and watching this affirms to me that you seem to have a wire loose. I don't mean to cut you down, I just encourage you to listen more closely to the advice given, and push yourself to engage other peoples thoughts as enthusiastically as you engage you own thoughts.

Stop the thought train and hook up a few new cars.

Fireball2,

The reason I introduced myself is I didn't remember the prior meetings. Now that you brought it up I do remember the Quizno's sandwich with you. Sorry I don't remember the shooting.

I don't know what the majority feel. When couples have visited my home I have put in a video of blowing up squeeks. Every man has sat down and started laughing. Even some women watch it but without the laughter. Normally, though, they go into the dining room or kitchen where other women are. That being said, I think the guys here would do the same thing. Therefore I conclude the majority of those who badgered me are hypocrites with a mob mentality. It's the internet. I shouldn't expect more.

Like I said earlier this thread is just not allowed to die.

What you do in your home is no one else's business.

That could be said about what someone posts as long as the owner doesn't mind.

How can it disrepect the animal at all? Its the quickest surest death out there if anyone gives a damn.

Now the picture part, I get it, I take pics like that at times too, just because I may not have seen results like that and feel the need to document.

The folks that take them in the head when the chance arises, I get them a hearty congrats. Its the way I was brought up also. No pain, no suffering, no trailing, no meat loss. There just plain is not a negative in there at all.

Of course I don't shoot them all in the head but generally get the chance a few times a year and take it when its right.

A bit OT here but thanks for being so lazy as to give us obama again.

No, it couldn't. It's a public forum. If you post something, you invite comment by definition. Especially if you're an attention whore.

Full circle So he is an attention whore? Or a garden variety idiot? Make up your mind man Can we just agree on a compromised position and say that at least for purposes of this thread, he is both

How did I give you Obama? By not voting for Romney? No thanks. Romney beat Romney.

Stop attacking me. Whose on first?

Some thoughts regarding your pic Ringman:

1) Odds of pic attracting new hunters - TAKE IT DOWN
2) Showing capability of a small bullet at high speed - LEAVE IT UP
3) Fuel for anti-hunters - TAKE IT DOWN
4) Does the pic edify hunting? - TAKE IT DOWN
5) Would pic generally be considered respectful or disrespectful to the non-hunting public? TAKE IT DOWN
6) Would pic generally be considered respectful or direspectful to the hunting public? TAKE IT DOWN
7) Does pic provide a greater understanding of deer anatomy? LEAVE IT UP
8) Would most hunters share this pic with their wife and/or kids? TAKE IT DOWN
9) Do you want this thread to die? TAKE IT DOWN


As a Christian man, I know you look at the broader picture in life; not just individual circumstances and/or events. I understand everything in life doesn't have to be a research project. However, do you believe you've considered the bigger picture in this case?

The choice is yours

I find it interesting that this buffoon went elk hunting & was posting again 2 hours later !

Just my .02, YMMV

Paul.

good post

The shot ain't the problem. If it has to be explained why it is just a terrible, idiotic idea to post that particular pic on a public forum, it likely can not be explained to you. Bless your heart.

[bleep] the anti hunters and what they'll think. Hiding what we do from them sure as hell hasn't made them go away or made them think any better of what we do. We used to carry our dead deer home from the hunt in the open beds of pickups or on car top carriers for all to see. Then we'd hang them from a tree in the front yard in plain sight of any passers by. I used to enjoy seeing what everybody had shot. Now we're all too scared of offending some damned anti so we hide what we do. We Keep our dead deer in the trunk or closed pickup bed and sneak it into the garage or basement when we get it home as if we'd committed some crime. Well so far as I can tell it ain't been working to shut them up so I don't give a damn what the anti's think anymore. My dead deer have again been hanging in the tree out front for the past few seasons and will again this season. I don't give a schit if somebody is offended by it or not. I'm a hunter and proud of it and it's perfectly legal and environmentally sound. I'm going to enjoy my last few seasons to the fullest and hiding anything to keep from offending some brainless twit just ain't on my agenda.

Recruit,

Thanks for taking time to post a thoughtful responses to one of the photos. About which photo are you asking?



1. It was not posted to attract new hunters. Leave it up.
2. I posted it to show high speed impact. Leave it up.
3. Anti hunters dislike photos of beautiful trophy bucks being held up by the hunter. Leave it up.
4. Edify hunting? What does that mean? Leave it up.
5. What the general population considers respectful has nothing to do with this site. They don't come here. Leave it up.
6. The photo doesn't tend to show normal anatomy. Leave it up.
7. I have no idea what most hunters show their wife and kids. Leave it up.
8. I couldn't care less if this thread dies or not. Leave it up.



I have no idea what you are asking here. You posted several words that don't seem to have anything to do with this thread.

Its all about you ringman. Just remember that. Everyone else is wrong,all of them, all the time. That is the most logical conclusion.

And, "8. I couldn't care less if this thread dies or not". At least admit you like the attention a little bit or there is no way anyone could believe anything you write ever again, because lets be serious, you do, at least a little bit.

MM

Oh, I don't hide anything from them, I just don't go out of my way to offend them. If I do so incidentally....oh, well..

Good grief, no one said a thing about bullet performance you dufus. The picture it's self was in very poor taste, and this is exactly the kind of thing that gives ammunition to the antis! You really need to get a clue.

MM,



Like I said I couldn't care less if this thread dies or not.



You are really late to the party. That has been hashed by both sides. The antis are not a bright bunch. They don't need facts or photos for their position.

No need to patronize Ringman. You are not naive as to which photo is being referred to.

Good luck to you along life's journey

Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person. - Fred Bear

Ringman,

THIS is what hunting is about for most of us. So if you wonder why the vast majority disagrees with your choice to post that photo, reflect back on this quote. Maybe..just maybe...you'll get it one day.

I have seen extremely detailed posts on this forum including post mortem autopsy pics.
so is it ok to post pics of open chest cavities but not ok to post this?
Not my call.
but in not offended by it.
I take head shots often.
But, I didn't need to be shown in visceral details the aftermath.
So is it now verboten to post pictures that display blood?
Dangling eyeballs aside, blood is blood, tissue IDs tissue and dead is dead.

No, it's not verboten. You post what you want. And if people don't like it, they'll say so.

You posted the picture for its shock value, you got it ringworm. You must be proud of it.

I didn't post it... or kill it.
But I have posted pictures of head shot deer.

My apologies. My remarks were really for the original post.

You want me to reflect on a quote from someone I respect for his bow and entrepreneurial abilities when I don't respect his philosophical statement? Give me something he says about bows or making money if you want me to reflect on something Bear says.

Ringman,
Do you get a lot of headaches?

Haven't in many years.

I'm no doctor but I'm pretty sure you must have a brain to get a headache...

Hopefully those photos won't end up as a promotional device for an anti hunting campaign that results in a ballot initiative I some unfortunate state. The audacity of unthinking people who post things online, these days .....

Did you post the same thing on the thread with the photo of the deer that looked like it was painted all over the chest with red paint?